If SoE thinks they will be able to have some of the WOW crowd ,it`s naivety from their part.Instead they should have focus on keeping those who are playing and do what needs to be done to make those who left re sub.What I see is that the actual community is pissed and if the "new vision is implemented"many will leave.
For all those who whines about "time sink" and such thing there's LOTRO and WoW...if you don`t know how to dance please don't blame the dance floor
Once again this shows that SoE never learns from their mistakes
In the land of Predators,the lion does not fear the jackals...
I really wish Vanguard had launched with a perfectly stable engine.
That way the game could have died a horrible death because of many of the issues listed in that announcement. It's a pity the MMORPG community didn't get to see that the hardcore designs of Vangaurd were as sure a death knell as its lack of stability. Now we'll just have to wait for the next company to think they can make a decent game with those hardcore mechanics and watch them crash and burn.
These guys are just getting rid of the junk in the game never should have been there. On a side note, you'd think with Vanguard would want to leave behind the mark of Brad McQuaid and NEVER use the term "Vision" again lol
To be honest, it all looks very good. Hope it won't be another NGE though - then again it doesn't seem to be that extensive amount of changes.
Only time will tell, even at current state the game is still fun - will it be fun after changes for everyone? Looks like specializations are coming as well - which is good.
From a devs perspective, making a game strictly for the hardcore elite is a Lose / Lose / Lose proposition : 1. There's just no pleasing leet players. Nothing you do is ever right, nothing is ever good enough. 2. Even if you could please the majority, there's so (relatively) few of them that there's no profit in it for large mainstream developers/publishers. 3. And the resource requirements of a Vanguard-sized project puts it out of reach of small devs who maybe could make a profit of such a niche hardcore-only market. The result is what you see happening now - compromises to soften gameplay in order to widen the audience.
This is just false, and i dont know where you got this information from. Its more your own opinion, based on pure hearsay.
VG failed because the game was in a buggy, crashy and unfinished state, and many of the promised features werent in, or were half assed.
Vanguard was in fact one of the very few games where there was a real vision behind it. But Microsoft tossed the game away and so they ran out of money to turn their visions into reality.
This applies to some other games too, namely Horizons.... and a few others
Dummying the game down and ignoring your original core membership, the ones who wanted a challenging game, is typical SOE practice. SOE has learned nothing from their past mistakes and clealry doesn't care about screwing over players who have invested time building their characters under the original rules and mechanics.
I must say that I'm a bit afraid of the "getting the game easier" idea.... as it is, it takes about 20-30 hours to take a toon from start to lvl 30 or so ... and from then on up to lvl 45 it takes 2 3 hours per level ....
Oh well.. we ll see what they make of it ... but I really wanted to get a flying mount before switching to another game
Frankly, I'm surprised they are still pouring money into this game. Is the plan to do a relaunch that will appeal to a wider audience? If not, then I can't see how this game will sustain itself. It sounds like the current player base is not happy with the changes. If the current player base doesn't stay with the game, I don't think it will grow.
Personally I think this game is on life support. It's only a matter of time until they pull the plug.
I like most of the ideas that Mr. Teerazas has proposed for the future of Vanguard. A few of them need to be kept an eye on since no one wants the game to be too easy, but having a time-sink for the sake of having a time-sink should be a tactic no longer practiced. I do not feel SOE is dumbing down Vanguard, but I hope Vanguard remains challenging yet able to be progressed through.
One thing I was dissappointed in not seeing mentioned was the supposed "free Trial Isle" for Vanguard. Mr. Terrazas mentioned how current players probably have noticed changes for the better & how if a player hasn't played since beta &/or launch they should attempt again to notice the changes though. Really, SOE expects those that felt duped at launch to just get on the Telon train again based on SOE's word? Give us some evidence first to decide to rejoin the ranks or not. The "free Trial Isle" concept would allow this to happen for former & potenially new Vanguard Players.
Overall, I think it was a really good informative letter. Too much of, "We're going to be making this better in the future", but not backing it up though will harm Vanguard's potential too so SOE should make a check-list about what they said they would do & do it. Lots of good ideas though with hopefully more to come for Vanguard. Nice to see that SOE opened up an avenue for players to offer suggestions too, now will they really listen or will they Everquest listen?
The problem with MMORPG's is that I hate to get into a game late. I prefer to be in from the first week atleast. I don't want to get into a game and start playing it when everything has been done or seen, there is nothing new. It ranks up there with reading a book, then watching the movie based on the book, the movie always sucks compared to the book.
So with that said, Vanguard is already over for me, I was in Beta, I bought it at release, I played for a couple months, and the game was crap at release, so I quit. Now everyone is mid to high level, everything has been seen, I will never catch up enough to play with my old guild, or friends directly, and I would be lucky to get to a level that could utilize any upcomming new zones and mobs by the time they are released, since they are usually for max level players.
This is an ongoing problem with MMORPG's, they are released unfinished, and we are expected to be okay with that. They invite 100,000 people into a beta, and then more or less throw away any bug reports that are issued. And most <not all> game companies refuse to listen to the player base.
Beta testing has lost it's purpose. Beta testing is for testing a game, not for all of the fanbase can see the game before release. How can a game justify being beta tested, when the application process is buying a particular magazine that has a code in it, or randomly selecting people from the forums. Beta testing should be taken seriously, and the fact the most companies today don't take it seriously, is why they continue to turn out unfinished products that the average player will cancel the subscription on with in two months.
If a game comapny out there seriously wants to make it's mark on the MMORPG world the they will do a thourgh Apha in house testing, then recruit actual beta testers, people with experience in diffrent aspects of testing.
Any companies out there want to run a serious beta test and turn out a product more complete then the others on the market ? All you have to do is sort through the applications, not just submit them to a random drawing process on your computer. If you are really desperate, or really want to look for the right applicants then send me an e-mail and I will tell you what you need to look for.
The fact is I filled out 6 beta application for the same 15 games over the last 8 years under friends names and information. Rangeing from complete experience to no experience. 8 years ago the two with the highest experience got beta keys. the last few years, it has been completely random.
Whew I am so glad I read this before purchasing this game. If I wanted another stupid dumbed down MMORPG I would play WoW. Thank god this came out so I didn't buy into the garbage. The only issues were bugs and performance issues. Not everyone wants stupid dumb down games like WoW. Alot miss the old EQ.
This is the BEST official comment I have read about Vanguard in a LONG LONG time! I see reality has FINALLY come to their senses. Now I finally, really have hope for Vanguard. This game only will survive if these ideas made reality. It CANT exist in a "harcore niche" because for such big worlds and complex systems there IS NO niche for that, unless you take 50-100 players as sufficient.
And just as a sidenote: get it in your heads that this entire thing is NOT about hardcore or not! 99% of the changes mentioned are just about preventing boring timesinks, like the uneventful long travel. The current corpse run is not difficult, its just a timesink. You die at the bottom of some huge dungeon and have to run down ALL THE WAY again! Thats not difficult or hard, its just silly and boring and a timesink, NOTHING ELSE. I mean, if you enjoy timesinks, play tetris or just randomly delete your characters every other day. All these points mentioned have ZERO to do with the difficulty! They have to do ONLY with "what is fun and what is just a boring waste of time". Getting a bit funny things out of a MMO even if you have just a short time, is a *necessity* for ANY MMO. Sure, we need those difficult, long-term goals too. But atm VG is SO devoid of anything to gain in short tem, and it SORELY needs to add those too. If you *really* read the text and not just yell "water-down" like a Pavlov Dog, you may *see* what this really is about.
It is finally the inevitable necessity is accepted and spoken. Kudos for the guts to say the truth to the fickle fans of VG. I didnt think ever to read something as reasonable and honest as this. Now there is hope.
I really hate to pat myself on the shoulder, but this is 100% what I - and MANY others! - wrote ALL THE TIME. I mean WOW... it reads like a 100% transcript of ALL the comments I ALWAYS wanted to see change in VG, so ... I am ecstatic about VG right now.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I don't think this is about hardcore and non-hardcore at all. What's so hardcore about running back somewhere to get your corpse? What's so hardcore about running across continent to hook-up with a buddy? What's so hardcore about not speeding through levels? Or simplifying character models?
Perhaps corpse runs, cross country exploration, and earninglevels are old standards people as a whole just don't want to deal with anymore. Just hand me the keys to the city, instantly make me king, and call it good!
This is all about an economy of time. Just like there are money sinks in MMO's, there are time sinks. That's part of what makes a virtual world what it is. I'm severely disappointed with these proposed changes. In my opinion they are turning Vanguard into WoWGaurd. I play WoW, I like WoW, but let WoW be WoW, and Vanguard be what it is.
I have been waiting for fixes to Vanguard to resubscribe, but now I see more than fixes are planned. Pretty soon I won't even need to be present at the computer to play. In fact, the bot tech is there, just make it part of the game why don't you? Make it so easy that no accomplishment made can be named great. I am 1 of 9 million who have all accomplished the same mediocre thing with little to no effort.
'Tis a sad day for Vanguard. May your dreams rest in peace.
I don't think this is about hardcore and non-hardcore at all. What's so hardcore about running back somewhere to get your corpse? What's so hardcore about running across continent to hook-up with a buddy? What's so hardcore about not speeding through levels? Or simplifying character models? Perhaps corpse runs, cross country exploration, and earninglevels are old standards people as a whole just don't want to deal with anymore. Just hand me the keys to the city, instantly make me king, and call it good!
This is all about an economy of time. Just like there are money sinks in MMO's, there are time sinks. That's part of what makes a virtual world what it is. I'm severely disappointed with these proposed changes. In my opinion they are turning Vanguard into WoWGaurd. I play WoW, I like WoW, but let WoW be WoW, and Vanguard be what it is. I have been waiting for fixes to Vanguard to resubscribe, but now I see more than fixes are planned. Pretty soon I won't even need to be present at the computer to play. In fact, the bot tech is there, just make it part of the game why don't you? Make it so easy that no accomplishment made can be named great. I am 1 of 9 million who have all accomplished the same mediocre thing with little to no effort. 'Tis a sad day for Vanguard. May your dreams rest in peace.
Get it in your heads that this entire thing is NOT about hardcore or not! 99% of the changes mentioned are just about preventing boring timesinks, like the uneventful long travel. The current corpse run is not difficult, its just a timesink. You die at the bottom of some huge dungeon and have to run down ALL THE WAY again! Thats not difficult or hard, its just silly and boring and a timesink, NOTHING ELSE.
I mean, if you enjoy timesinks, play tetris or just randomly delete your characters every other day. All these points mentioned have ZERO to do with the difficulty! They have to do ONLY with "what is fun and what is just a boring waste of time". Getting a bit funny things out of a MMO even if you have just a short time, is a *necessity* for ANY MMO. Sure, we need those difficult, long-term goals too. But atm VG is SO devoid of anything to gain in short tem, and it SORELY needs to add those too. If you *really* read the text and not just yell "water-down" like a Pavlov Dog, you may *see* what this really is about.
This is NOT about handing the keys to the kingdom for LAZYBUMS! Its giving ppl who play 2-3 hours more than a handful of badger claws and a zombie bone! I really would appreciate you STOP yelling out doomsday Apocalypse for VG just because some casual players gets a WEE bit more than currently! Its NOT the end of the world or turning VG upside down!
Ok, there is one thing I would invite everyone who disagrees with the Letter's suggestions to go to the DETAIL and tell us OPENLY what EXACTLY you dont like and why. Its very easy to yell "its watered down" and "its another WOW". I dont take such generalizations serious unless you answer to exact points.
Why is giving rewards also to those who DONT have 8 hours a day to play bad?
Why is slow travel (when it is just boring) so important?
Why is corpse run as it is so imporant? Do you feel the game is really made more interesting because if you die at the bottom of a dungeon heightens your sense of enjoyment, because you have to re-do it all again?
Are not most of the penalities and issues mentioned merely timesinks for the sake of timesinks?
MANY MANY ppl just want to feel a sligh reward and accomplishments even if they have only a short time. It doesnt mean to make them rich and powerful for nothing. But as VG is atm you can play days and days and all I loot is dozens of badger livers and zombie bones. Vg just IS stingy! I dont want them to give me a free manor, but when I end of 2 hour session, I DAMMIT want *some* small, funny thing looted and *some* small feel of having accomplished something. It doesnt mean to take out the greater challanges, it just means to ADD challanges and accomplishments for those with less time. And Eq2 has done JUST THAT as well! There are very rare things and very expensive things which neeed A LOT of time and are VERY hard to come, BIG challanges for LONG TIME commitment. So doing that for Vanguard is the BEST thing to do. And NO: just because you incorporate what is GOOD doesnt mean to make VG an EQ2 copy! It means to learn from others, and only fools dont learn from what others made good.
The BIG folly of the original VG devs like Brad was to re-invent the wheel, to make things different just for the sake of making them different! Sure, there is this vocal lot on the fourms of VG. But if you would look outside you small circles you would realize what a *small* island you are! But I guess you will never wake up to reality. Instead you toss "evil WOW" in and all debate is silenced with sterotypes with catchwords and anti-slogans like "watered down" and WOW-ification.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I don't think this is about hardcore and non-hardcore at all. What's so hardcore about running back somewhere to get your corpse? What's so hardcore about running across continent to hook-up with a buddy? What's so hardcore about not speeding through levels? Or simplifying character models? Perhaps corpse runs, cross country exploration, and earninglevels are old standards people as a whole just don't want to deal with anymore. Just hand me the keys to the city, instantly make me king, and call it good!
This is all about an economy of time. Just like there are money sinks in MMO's, there are time sinks. That's part of what makes a virtual world what it is. I'm severely disappointed with these proposed changes. In my opinion they are turning Vanguard into WoWGaurd. I play WoW, I like WoW, but let WoW be WoW, and Vanguard be what it is. I have been waiting for fixes to Vanguard to resubscribe, but now I see more than fixes are planned. Pretty soon I won't even need to be present at the computer to play. In fact, the bot tech is there, just make it part of the game why don't you? Make it so easy that no accomplishment made can be named great. I am 1 of 9 million who have all accomplished the same mediocre thing with little to no effort. 'Tis a sad day for Vanguard. May your dreams rest in peace.
I understand what is said but I can see why it would be called Hardcore is because you have to be willing to put in the time necessary for accomplishing certain things (such as running with no gear through mobs that will attack to recover your corpse or spending an hour to travel to meet up with a friend) and not just spend 2 minutes to get back to adventuring. My opinion is the time sinks makes one need to think and plan better but have no idea what this game is going to turn into and keep wondering if there will be Classic servers as well as updated ones. Seems like there is a split with the people who play/want to play the game.
I don't think this is about hardcore and non-hardcore at all. What's so hardcore about running back somewhere to get your corpse? What's so hardcore about running across continent to hook-up with a buddy? What's so hardcore about not speeding through levels? Or simplifying character models? Perhaps corpse runs, cross country exploration, and earninglevels are old standards people as a whole just don't want to deal with anymore. Just hand me the keys to the city, instantly make me king, and call it good!
This is all about an economy of time. Just like there are money sinks in MMO's, there are time sinks. That's part of what makes a virtual world what it is. I'm severely disappointed with these proposed changes. In my opinion they are turning Vanguard into WoWGaurd. I play WoW, I like WoW, but let WoW be WoW, and Vanguard be what it is. I have been waiting for fixes to Vanguard to resubscribe, but now I see more than fixes are planned. Pretty soon I won't even need to be present at the computer to play. In fact, the bot tech is there, just make it part of the game why don't you? Make it so easy that no accomplishment made can be named great. I am 1 of 9 million who have all accomplished the same mediocre thing with little to no effort. 'Tis a sad day for Vanguard. May your dreams rest in peace.
I understand what is said but I can see why it would be called Hardcore is because you have to be willing to put in the time necessary for accomplishing certain things (such as running with no gear through mobs that will attack to recover your corpse or spending an hour to travel to meet up with a friend) and not just spend 2 minutes to get back to adventuring. My opinion is the time sinks makes one need to think and plan better but have no idea what this game is going to turn into and keep wondering if there will be Classic servers as well as updated ones. Seems like there is a split with the people who play/want to play the game.
I always said "hardcore"/classic servers would help to end this ENDLESS argument VG faces. I am just so fed with those ppl defending this.
Just one example. Recently I was in Trengal Keep, in a 3 hour session. The loot I got was meager, just verndor trash and some undead bones. Alas, since our healer made a slight mistake, we got a wipe, and later 2 more wipes, one because the MT crashed and one more I dunno why. Then the group disbanded and it was late, because I had work next morning. The result: I had to call my corpse and lost more XP than I had accomplished and had to spent all meager coin for repair. There are just too many short, precious evenings I loose instead of gain, and thats just a BIG "NO NO" for a game. Call that carebearish if you enjoy it, but *my* time is too precious for such frustration.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I don't think this is about hardcore and non-hardcore at all. What's so hardcore about running back somewhere to get your corpse? What's so hardcore about running across continent to hook-up with a buddy? What's so hardcore about not speeding through levels? Or simplifying character models? Perhaps corpse runs, cross country exploration, and earninglevels are old standards people as a whole just don't want to deal with anymore. Just hand me the keys to the city, instantly make me king, and call it good!
This is all about an economy of time. Just like there are money sinks in MMO's, there are time sinks. That's part of what makes a virtual world what it is. I'm severely disappointed with these proposed changes. In my opinion they are turning Vanguard into WoWGaurd. I play WoW, I like WoW, but let WoW be WoW, and Vanguard be what it is. I have been waiting for fixes to Vanguard to resubscribe, but now I see more than fixes are planned. Pretty soon I won't even need to be present at the computer to play. In fact, the bot tech is there, just make it part of the game why don't you? Make it so easy that no accomplishment made can be named great. I am 1 of 9 million who have all accomplished the same mediocre thing with little to no effort. 'Tis a sad day for Vanguard. May your dreams rest in peace.
Get it in your heads that this entire thing is NOT about hardcore or not! 99% of the changes mentioned are just about preventing boring timesinks, like the uneventful long travel. The current corpse run is not difficult, its just a timesink. You die at the bottom of some huge dungeon and have to run down ALL THE WAY again! Thats not difficult or hard, its just silly and boring and a timesink, NOTHING ELSE.
I mean, if you enjoy timesinks, play tetris or just randomly delete your characters every other day. All these points mentioned have ZERO to do with the difficulty! They have to do ONLY with "what is fun and what is just a boring waste of time". Getting a bit funny things out of a MMO even if you have just a short time, is a *necessity* for ANY MMO. Sure, we need those difficult, long-term goals too. But atm VG is SO devoid of anything to gain in short tem, and it SORELY needs to add those too. If you *really* read the text and not just yell "water-down" like a Pavlov Dog, you may *see* what this really is about.
This is NOT about handing the keys to the kingdom for LAZYBUMS! Its giving ppl who play 2-3 hours more than a handful of badger claws and a zombie bone! I really would appreciate you STOP yelling out doomsday Apocalypse for VG just because some casual players gets a WEE bit more than currently! Its NOT the end of the world or turning VG upside down!
Ok, there is one thing I would invite everyone who disagrees with the Letter's suggestions to go to the DETAIL and tell us OPENLY what EXACTLY you dont like and why. Its very easy to yell "its watered down" and "its another WOW". I dont take such generalizations serious unless you answer to exact points.
Why is giving rewards also to those who DONT have 8 hours a day to play bad?
Why is slow travel (when it is just boring) so important?
Why is corpse run as it is so imporant? Do you feel the game is really made more interesting because if you die at the bottom of a dungeon heightens your sense of enjoyment, because you have to re-do it all again?
Are not most of the penalities and issues mentioned merely timesinks for the sake of timesinks?
MANY MANY ppl just want to feel a sligh reward and accomplishments even if they have only a short time. It doesnt mean to make them rich and powerful for nothing. But as VG is atm you can play days and days and all I loot is dozens of badger livers and zombie bones. Vg just IS stingy! I dont want them to give me a free manor, but when I end of 2 hour session, I DAMMIT want *some* small, funny thing looted and *some* small feel of having accomplished something. It doesnt mean to take out the greater challanges, it just means to ADD challanges and accomplishments for those with less time. And Eq2 has done JUST THAT as well! There are very rare things and very expensive things which neeed A LOT of time and are VERY hard to come, BIG challanges for LONG TIME commitment. So doing that for Vanguard is the BEST thing to do. And NO: just because you incorporate what is GOOD doesnt mean to make VG and EQ2 copy! I means to learn from others, and only fools dont learn from what others made good.
The BIG folly of the original VG devs like Brad was to re-invent the wheel, to make things different just for the sake of making them different! Sure, there is this vocal lot on the fourms of VG. But if you would look outside you small circles you would realize what a *small* island you are! But I guess you will never wake up to reality. Instead you toss "evil WOW" in and all debate is silenced with sterotypes with catchwords and anti-slogans like "watered down" and WOW-ification.
I ask why are people so impatient? You'll get your reward. What's wrong with putting some time toward it? I'm a casual player. I can feel accomplishment for doing something in stages vs. being rewarded for every simple thing I do within a 2 hour time span. I don't think Vanguard is trying to horde the feeling of reward and accomplishment away from anyone as it currently stands.
Why is slow travel important? Well because maybe it gives the world a greater sense of scale, so that it feels like a WORLD and not a backyard. Maybe it causes you to notice an area and mark it down to go check out that cool looking cave sometime to see where it leads. Maybe it's just for the beauty of the art and design of different locations. Perhaps it's that sense of danger of walking into the unknown and discovering what is there? It's called exploration and some people still think it's fun.
Corpse runs. Not only is incentive to not get killed and play smarter, but it sometimes can have pleasant unexpected results. I remember a corpse run in the first EQ that caused our whole guild to band together to retrieve it. Later it became a hilariious story we all could laugh about. Other friendships have been made over people helping others to get their corpse back. I know it sounds odd to say, but it can be a social mechanic.
I ask you to consider that in your hurry to the finish, you take the time to observe that not everyone wants to swim in the shallow pool.
For those who think I need a different genre then mmorpgs because I don't like corpse runs, give me a break. I find it tedious, boring and utterly NOT fun. Has nothing to do with difficulty. If you want to play a difficult game play FFXI, and then we'll talk.
I understand that alot of you "hardcore" gamers don't like WoW. That's fine. But of all the mmorpgs I have ever played, when I played it you know what made it FUN and made me want more? The fact that when I died I could go rez in no time at all with minimum weapon damage. Which makes it less of a headache and more of a FUN game. They also made aquiring money alot easier than most games.
Do I feel that Wow could use the graphics and character class depth of Vanguard? You bet, but it doesn't. So SUE me for wanting Vanguard to have the fun aspect and still keeps its fundamental mechanics.
I don't think this is about hardcore and non-hardcore at all. What's so hardcore about running back somewhere to get your corpse? What's so hardcore about running across continent to hook-up with a buddy? What's so hardcore about not speeding through levels? Or simplifying character models? Perhaps corpse runs, cross country exploration, and earninglevels are old standards people as a whole just don't want to deal with anymore. Just hand me the keys to the city, instantly make me king, and call it good!
This is all about an economy of time. Just like there are money sinks in MMO's, there are time sinks. That's part of what makes a virtual world what it is. I'm severely disappointed with these proposed changes. In my opinion they are turning Vanguard into WoWGaurd. I play WoW, I like WoW, but let WoW be WoW, and Vanguard be what it is. I have been waiting for fixes to Vanguard to resubscribe, but now I see more than fixes are planned. Pretty soon I won't even need to be present at the computer to play. In fact, the bot tech is there, just make it part of the game why don't you? Make it so easy that no accomplishment made can be named great. I am 1 of 9 million who have all accomplished the same mediocre thing with little to no effort. 'Tis a sad day for Vanguard. May your dreams rest in peace.
Get it in your heads that this entire thing is NOT about hardcore or not! 99% of the changes mentioned are just about preventing boring timesinks, like the uneventful long travel. The current corpse run is not difficult, its just a timesink. You die at the bottom of some huge dungeon and have to run down ALL THE WAY again! Thats not difficult or hard, its just silly and boring and a timesink, NOTHING ELSE.
I mean, if you enjoy timesinks, play tetris or just randomly delete your characters every other day. All these points mentioned have ZERO to do with the difficulty! They have to do ONLY with "what is fun and what is just a boring waste of time". Getting a bit funny things out of a MMO even if you have just a short time, is a *necessity* for ANY MMO. Sure, we need those difficult, long-term goals too. But atm VG is SO devoid of anything to gain in short tem, and it SORELY needs to add those too. If you *really* read the text and not just yell "water-down" like a Pavlov Dog, you may *see* what this really is about.
This is NOT about handing the keys to the kingdom for LAZYBUMS! Its giving ppl who play 2-3 hours more than a handful of badger claws and a zombie bone! I really would appreciate you STOP yelling out doomsday Apocalypse for VG just because some casual players gets a WEE bit more than currently! Its NOT the end of the world or turning VG upside down!
Ok, there is one thing I would invite everyone who disagrees with the Letter's suggestions to go to the DETAIL and tell us OPENLY what EXACTLY you dont like and why. Its very easy to yell "its watered down" and "its another WOW". I dont take such generalizations serious unless you answer to exact points.
Why is giving rewards also to those who DONT have 8 hours a day to play bad?
Why is slow travel (when it is just boring) so important?
Why is corpse run as it is so imporant? Do you feel the game is really made more interesting because if you die at the bottom of a dungeon heightens your sense of enjoyment, because you have to re-do it all again?
Are not most of the penalities and issues mentioned merely timesinks for the sake of timesinks?
MANY MANY ppl just want to feel a sligh reward and accomplishments even if they have only a short time. It doesnt mean to make them rich and powerful for nothing. But as VG is atm you can play days and days and all I loot is dozens of badger livers and zombie bones. Vg just IS stingy! I dont want them to give me a free manor, but when I end of 2 hour session, I DAMMIT want *some* small, funny thing looted and *some* small feel of having accomplished something. It doesnt mean to take out the greater challanges, it just means to ADD challanges and accomplishments for those with less time. And Eq2 has done JUST THAT as well! There are very rare things and very expensive things which neeed A LOT of time and are VERY hard to come, BIG challanges for LONG TIME commitment. So doing that for Vanguard is the BEST thing to do. And NO: just because you incorporate what is GOOD doesnt mean to make VG and EQ2 copy! I means to learn from others, and only fools dont learn from what others made good.
The BIG folly of the original VG devs like Brad was to re-invent the wheel, to make things different just for the sake of making them different! Sure, there is this vocal lot on the fourms of VG. But if you would look outside you small circles you would realize what a *small* island you are! But I guess you will never wake up to reality. Instead you toss "evil WOW" in and all debate is silenced with sterotypes with catchwords and anti-slogans like "watered down" and WOW-ification.
I ask why are people so impatient? You'll get your reward. What's wrong with putting some time toward it? I'm a casual player. I can feel accomplishment for doing something in stages vs. being rewarded for every simple thing I do within a 2 hour time span. I don't think Vanguard is trying to horde the feeling of reward and accomplishment away from anyone as it currently stands.
Why is slow travel important? Well because maybe it gives the world a greater sense of scale, so that it feels like a WORLD and not a backyard. Maybe it causes you to notice an area and mark it down to go check out that cool looking cave sometime to see where it leads. Maybe it's just for the beauty of the art and design of different locations. Perhaps it's that sense of danger of walking into the unknown and discovering what is there? It's called exploration and some people still think it's fun.
Corpse runs. Not only is incentive to not get killed and play smarter, but it sometimes can have pleasant unexpected results. I remember a corpse run in the first EQ that caused our whole guild to band together to retrieve it. Later it became a hilariious story we all could laugh about. Other friendships have been made over people helping others to get their corpse back. I know it sounds odd to say, but it can be a social mechanic.
I ask you to consider that in your hurry to the finish, you take the time to observe that not everyone wants to swim in the shallow pool.
So where exactly is the correlation between the corpse run and having a good time with the guild? Can't you have a good time with yoru guild doing anything? Why does it have to be a corpse run? Can't it be something more difficult but less time consuming? Corpse runs are easy but they take forever...hence they are boring.
I don't think this is about hardcore and non-hardcore at all. What's so hardcore about running back somewhere to get your corpse? What's so hardcore about running across continent to hook-up with a buddy? What's so hardcore about not speeding through levels? Or simplifying character models? Perhaps corpse runs, cross country exploration, and earninglevels are old standards people as a whole just don't want to deal with anymore. Just hand me the keys to the city, instantly make me king, and call it good!
This is all about an economy of time. Just like there are money sinks in MMO's, there are time sinks. That's part of what makes a virtual world what it is. I'm severely disappointed with these proposed changes. In my opinion they are turning Vanguard into WoWGaurd. I play WoW, I like WoW, but let WoW be WoW, and Vanguard be what it is. I have been waiting for fixes to Vanguard to resubscribe, but now I see more than fixes are planned. Pretty soon I won't even need to be present at the computer to play. In fact, the bot tech is there, just make it part of the game why don't you? Make it so easy that no accomplishment made can be named great. I am 1 of 9 million who have all accomplished the same mediocre thing with little to no effort. 'Tis a sad day for Vanguard. May your dreams rest in peace.
I understand what is said but I can see why it would be called Hardcore is because you have to be willing to put in the time necessary for accomplishing certain things (such as running with no gear through mobs that will attack to recover your corpse or spending an hour to travel to meet up with a friend) and not just spend 2 minutes to get back to adventuring. My opinion is the time sinks makes one need to think and plan better but have no idea what this game is going to turn into and keep wondering if there will be Classic servers as well as updated ones. Seems like there is a split with the people who play/want to play the game.
I always said "hardcore"/classic servers would help to end this ENDLESS argument VG faces. I am just so fed with those ppl defending this.
Just one example. Recently I was in Trengal Keep, in a 3 hour session. The loot I got was meager, just verndor trash and some undead bones. Alas, since our healer made a slight mistake, we got a wipe, and later 2 more wipes, one because the MT crashed and one more I dunno why. Then the group disbanded and it was late, because I had work next morning. The result: I had to call my corpse and lost more XP than I had accomplished and had to spent all meager coin for repair. There are just too many short, precious evenings I loose instead of gain, and thats just a BIG "NO NO" for a game. Call that carebearish if you enjoy it, but *my* time is too precious for such frustration.
No my friend...this is not carebarish. This is common sense. Ironicly the same people who push for hardcore rules are the same people who kill the game. Point in case.
I don't think this is about hardcore and non-hardcore at all. What's so hardcore about running back somewhere to get your corpse? What's so hardcore about running across continent to hook-up with a buddy? What's so hardcore about not speeding through levels? Or simplifying character models? Perhaps corpse runs, cross country exploration, and earninglevels are old standards people as a whole just don't want to deal with anymore. Just hand me the keys to the city, instantly make me king, and call it good!
This is all about an economy of time. Just like there are money sinks in MMO's, there are time sinks. That's part of what makes a virtual world what it is. I'm severely disappointed with these proposed changes. In my opinion they are turning Vanguard into WoWGaurd. I play WoW, I like WoW, but let WoW be WoW, and Vanguard be what it is. I have been waiting for fixes to Vanguard to resubscribe, but now I see more than fixes are planned. Pretty soon I won't even need to be present at the computer to play. In fact, the bot tech is there, just make it part of the game why don't you? Make it so easy that no accomplishment made can be named great. I am 1 of 9 million who have all accomplished the same mediocre thing with little to no effort. 'Tis a sad day for Vanguard. May your dreams rest in peace.
Get it in your heads that this entire thing is NOT about hardcore or not! 99% of the changes mentioned are just about preventing boring timesinks, like the uneventful long travel. The current corpse run is not difficult, its just a timesink. You die at the bottom of some huge dungeon and have to run down ALL THE WAY again! Thats not difficult or hard, its just silly and boring and a timesink, NOTHING ELSE.
I mean, if you enjoy timesinks, play tetris or just randomly delete your characters every other day. All these points mentioned have ZERO to do with the difficulty! They have to do ONLY with "what is fun and what is just a boring waste of time". Getting a bit funny things out of a MMO even if you have just a short time, is a *necessity* for ANY MMO. Sure, we need those difficult, long-term goals too. But atm VG is SO devoid of anything to gain in short tem, and it SORELY needs to add those too. If you *really* read the text and not just yell "water-down" like a Pavlov Dog, you may *see* what this really is about.
This is NOT about handing the keys to the kingdom for LAZYBUMS! Its giving ppl who play 2-3 hours more than a handful of badger claws and a zombie bone! I really would appreciate you STOP yelling out doomsday Apocalypse for VG just because some casual players gets a WEE bit more than currently! Its NOT the end of the world or turning VG upside down!
Ok, there is one thing I would invite everyone who disagrees with the Letter's suggestions to go to the DETAIL and tell us OPENLY what EXACTLY you dont like and why. Its very easy to yell "its watered down" and "its another WOW". I dont take such generalizations serious unless you answer to exact points.
Why is giving rewards also to those who DONT have 8 hours a day to play bad?
Why is slow travel (when it is just boring) so important?
Why is corpse run as it is so imporant? Do you feel the game is really made more interesting because if you die at the bottom of a dungeon heightens your sense of enjoyment, because you have to re-do it all again?
Are not most of the penalities and issues mentioned merely timesinks for the sake of timesinks?
MANY MANY ppl just want to feel a sligh reward and accomplishments even if they have only a short time. It doesnt mean to make them rich and powerful for nothing. But as VG is atm you can play days and days and all I loot is dozens of badger livers and zombie bones. Vg just IS stingy! I dont want them to give me a free manor, but when I end of 2 hour session, I DAMMIT want *some* small, funny thing looted and *some* small feel of having accomplished something. It doesnt mean to take out the greater challanges, it just means to ADD challanges and accomplishments for those with less time. And Eq2 has done JUST THAT as well! There are very rare things and very expensive things which neeed A LOT of time and are VERY hard to come, BIG challanges for LONG TIME commitment. So doing that for Vanguard is the BEST thing to do. And NO: just because you incorporate what is GOOD doesnt mean to make VG and EQ2 copy! I means to learn from others, and only fools dont learn from what others made good.
The BIG folly of the original VG devs like Brad was to re-invent the wheel, to make things different just for the sake of making them different! Sure, there is this vocal lot on the fourms of VG. But if you would look outside you small circles you would realize what a *small* island you are! But I guess you will never wake up to reality. Instead you toss "evil WOW" in and all debate is silenced with sterotypes with catchwords and anti-slogans like "watered down" and WOW-ification.
I ask why are people so impatient? You'll get your reward. What's wrong with putting some time toward it? I'm a casual player. I can feel accomplishment for doing something in stages vs. being rewarded for every simple thing I do within a 2 hour time span. I don't think Vanguard is trying to horde the feeling of reward and accomplishment away from anyone as it currently stands.
Why is slow travel important? Well because maybe it gives the world a greater sense of scale, so that it feels like a WORLD and not a backyard. Maybe it causes you to notice an area and mark it down to go check out that cool looking cave sometime to see where it leads. Maybe it's just for the beauty of the art and design of different locations. Perhaps it's that sense of danger of walking into the unknown and discovering what is there? It's called exploration and some people still think it's fun.
Corpse runs. Not only is incentive to not get killed and play smarter, but it sometimes can have pleasant unexpected results. I remember a corpse run in the first EQ that caused our whole guild to band together to retrieve it. Later it became a hilariious story we all could laugh about. Other friendships have been made over people helping others to get their corpse back. I know it sounds odd to say, but it can be a social mechanic.
I ask you to consider that in your hurry to the finish, you take the time to observe that not everyone wants to swim in the shallow pool.
So where exactly is the correlation between the corpse run and having a good time with the guild? Can't you have a good time with yoru guild doing anything? Why does it have to be a corpse run? Can't it be something more difficult but less time consuming? Corpse runs are easy but they take forever...hence they are boring.
It doesn't have to be a corpse run, but the point is that sometimes a corpse run becomes more than just a boring exercise of patience. I thought my example was pretty clear. And I would hope people would not build a guild around the soul purpose of doing corpse runs.
What you have to understand is that for some people Vanguard was to be a nice warm home-cooked meal in the land of Mc Donalds, Burger King, and Taco Bell MMO's. Not everyone is satisfied with the food pill instant gratification mentality. Not everyone wants to chew down a prefab dinner while in their car driving to their next prefab meal. But games are already in existence that play that way, so why change Vanguard?
I don't think this is about hardcore and non-hardcore at all. What's so hardcore about running back somewhere to get your corpse? What's so hardcore about running across continent to hook-up with a buddy? What's so hardcore about not speeding through levels? Or simplifying character models? Perhaps corpse runs, cross country exploration, and earninglevels are old standards people as a whole just don't want to deal with anymore. Just hand me the keys to the city, instantly make me king, and call it good!
This is all about an economy of time. Just like there are money sinks in MMO's, there are time sinks. That's part of what makes a virtual world what it is. I'm severely disappointed with these proposed changes. In my opinion they are turning Vanguard into WoWGaurd. I play WoW, I like WoW, but let WoW be WoW, and Vanguard be what it is. I have been waiting for fixes to Vanguard to resubscribe, but now I see more than fixes are planned. Pretty soon I won't even need to be present at the computer to play. In fact, the bot tech is there, just make it part of the game why don't you? Make it so easy that no accomplishment made can be named great. I am 1 of 9 million who have all accomplished the same mediocre thing with little to no effort. 'Tis a sad day for Vanguard. May your dreams rest in peace.
Get it in your heads that this entire thing is NOT about hardcore or not! 99% of the changes mentioned are just about preventing boring timesinks, like the uneventful long travel. The current corpse run is not difficult, its just a timesink. You die at the bottom of some huge dungeon and have to run down ALL THE WAY again! Thats not difficult or hard, its just silly and boring and a timesink, NOTHING ELSE.
I mean, if you enjoy timesinks, play tetris or just randomly delete your characters every other day. All these points mentioned have ZERO to do with the difficulty! They have to do ONLY with "what is fun and what is just a boring waste of time". Getting a bit funny things out of a MMO even if you have just a short time, is a *necessity* for ANY MMO. Sure, we need those difficult, long-term goals too. But atm VG is SO devoid of anything to gain in short tem, and it SORELY needs to add those too. If you *really* read the text and not just yell "water-down" like a Pavlov Dog, you may *see* what this really is about.
This is NOT about handing the keys to the kingdom for LAZYBUMS! Its giving ppl who play 2-3 hours more than a handful of badger claws and a zombie bone! I really would appreciate you STOP yelling out doomsday Apocalypse for VG just because some casual players gets a WEE bit more than currently! Its NOT the end of the world or turning VG upside down!
Ok, there is one thing I would invite everyone who disagrees with the Letter's suggestions to go to the DETAIL and tell us OPENLY what EXACTLY you dont like and why. Its very easy to yell "its watered down" and "its another WOW". I dont take such generalizations serious unless you answer to exact points.
Why is giving rewards also to those who DONT have 8 hours a day to play bad?
Why is slow travel (when it is just boring) so important?
Why is corpse run as it is so imporant? Do you feel the game is really made more interesting because if you die at the bottom of a dungeon heightens your sense of enjoyment, because you have to re-do it all again?
Are not most of the penalities and issues mentioned merely timesinks for the sake of timesinks?
MANY MANY ppl just want to feel a sligh reward and accomplishments even if they have only a short time. It doesnt mean to make them rich and powerful for nothing. But as VG is atm you can play days and days and all I loot is dozens of badger livers and zombie bones. Vg just IS stingy! I dont want them to give me a free manor, but when I end of 2 hour session, I DAMMIT want *some* small, funny thing looted and *some* small feel of having accomplished something. It doesnt mean to take out the greater challanges, it just means to ADD challanges and accomplishments for those with less time. And Eq2 has done JUST THAT as well! There are very rare things and very expensive things which neeed A LOT of time and are VERY hard to come, BIG challanges for LONG TIME commitment. So doing that for Vanguard is the BEST thing to do. And NO: just because you incorporate what is GOOD doesnt mean to make VG and EQ2 copy! I means to learn from others, and only fools dont learn from what others made good.
The BIG folly of the original VG devs like Brad was to re-invent the wheel, to make things different just for the sake of making them different! Sure, there is this vocal lot on the fourms of VG. But if you would look outside you small circles you would realize what a *small* island you are! But I guess you will never wake up to reality. Instead you toss "evil WOW" in and all debate is silenced with sterotypes with catchwords and anti-slogans like "watered down" and WOW-ification.
I ask why are people so impatient? You'll get your reward. What's wrong with putting some time toward it? I'm a casual player. I can feel accomplishment for doing something in stages vs. being rewarded for every simple thing I do within a 2 hour time span. I don't think Vanguard is trying to horde the feeling of reward and accomplishment away from anyone as it currently stands.
Why is slow travel important? Well because maybe it gives the world a greater sense of scale, so that it feels like a WORLD and not a backyard. Maybe it causes you to notice an area and mark it down to go check out that cool looking cave sometime to see where it leads. Maybe it's just for the beauty of the art and design of different locations. Perhaps it's that sense of danger of walking into the unknown and discovering what is there? It's called exploration and some people still think it's fun.
Corpse runs. Not only is incentive to not get killed and play smarter, but it sometimes can have pleasant unexpected results. I remember a corpse run in the first EQ that caused our whole guild to band together to retrieve it. Later it became a hilariious story we all could laugh about. Other friendships have been made over people helping others to get their corpse back. I know it sounds odd to say, but it can be a social mechanic.
I ask you to consider that in your hurry to the finish, you take the time to observe that not everyone wants to swim in the shallow pool.
So where exactly is the correlation between the corpse run and having a good time with the guild? Can't you have a good time with yoru guild doing anything? Why does it have to be a corpse run? Can't it be something more difficult but less time consuming? Corpse runs are easy but they take forever...hence they are boring.
It doesn't have to be a corpse run, but the point is that sometimes a corpse run becomes more than just a boring exercise of patience. I thought my example was pretty clear. And I would hope people would not build a guild around the soul purpose of doing corpse runs.
What you have to understand is that for some people Vanguard was to be a nice warm home-cooked meal in the land of Mc Donalds, Burger King, and Taco Bell MMO's. Not everyone is satisfied with the food pill instant gratification mentality. Not everyone wants to chew down a prefab dinner while in their car driving to their next prefab meal. But games are already in existence that play that way, so why change Vanguard?
VAngaurd may have been sold/hyped as a nice warm home-cooked meal, but it is more likened to that Angus burger and everyone is asking what part of the cow the angus comes from. Why change Vanguard, to make money.
It doesn't have to be a corpse run, but the point is that sometimes a corpse run becomes more than just a boring exercise of patience. I thought my example was pretty clear. And I would hope people would not build a guild around the soul purpose of doing corpse runs. What you have to understand is that for some people Vanguard was to be a nice warm home-cooked meal in the land of Mc Donalds, Burger King, and Taco Bell MMO's. Not everyone is satisfied with the food pill instant gratification mentality. Not everyone wants to chew down a prefab dinner while in their car driving to their next prefab meal. But games are already in existence that play that way, so why change Vanguard?
If WoW is McDonald's, then VG is that greaseball joint up the road that is getting ready to close its doors because everyone thinks they use dogs in their burgers. It is struggling to make a profit, and that is your answer as to why Vanguard must change.
Really? Did they give it chance to be anything? They're changing mechanics before the game is fixed. They're turning it into EQ2 before it has a chance be Vanguard. I really think this is a mistake, and believe that they could easily profit from a game that is reminiscent of the challenges early MMO's provided, with updated graphics and features. Like Vanguard was planned to be.
Comments
If SoE thinks they will be able to have some of the WOW crowd ,it`s naivety from their part.Instead they should have focus on keeping those who are playing and do what needs to be done to make those who left re sub.What I see is that the actual community is pissed and if the "new vision is implemented"many will leave.
For all those who whines about "time sink" and such thing there's LOTRO and WoW...if you don`t know how to dance please don't blame the dance floor
Once again this shows that SoE never learns from their mistakes
In the land of Predators,the lion does not fear the jackals...
Ahh, I see, so what you're all saying is,"this will be the NGE for the Sword and Shield crowd" then?
I really wish Vanguard had launched with a perfectly stable engine.
That way the game could have died a horrible death because of many of the issues listed in that announcement. It's a pity the MMORPG community didn't get to see that the hardcore designs of Vangaurd were as sure a death knell as its lack of stability. Now we'll just have to wait for the next company to think they can make a decent game with those hardcore mechanics and watch them crash and burn.
These guys are just getting rid of the junk in the game never should have been there. On a side note, you'd think with Vanguard would want to leave behind the mark of Brad McQuaid and NEVER use the term "Vision" again lol
To be honest, it all looks very good. Hope it won't be another NGE though - then again it doesn't seem to be that extensive amount of changes.
Only time will tell, even at current state the game is still fun - will it be fun after changes for everyone? Looks like specializations are coming as well - which is good.
This is just false, and i dont know where you got this information from. Its more your own opinion, based on pure hearsay.
VG failed because the game was in a buggy, crashy and unfinished state, and many of the promised features werent in, or were half assed.
Vanguard was in fact one of the very few games where there was a real vision behind it. But Microsoft tossed the game away and so they ran out of money to turn their visions into reality.
This applies to some other games too, namely Horizons.... and a few others
Dummying the game down and ignoring your original core membership, the ones who wanted a challenging game, is typical SOE practice. SOE has learned nothing from their past mistakes and clealry doesn't care about screwing over players who have invested time building their characters under the original rules and mechanics.
I must say that I'm a bit afraid of the "getting the game easier" idea.... as it is, it takes about 20-30 hours to take a toon from start to lvl 30 or so ... and from then on up to lvl 45 it takes 2 3 hours per level ....
Oh well.. we ll see what they make of it ... but I really wanted to get a flying mount before switching to another game
This game is terrible.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Frankly, I'm surprised they are still pouring money into this game. Is the plan to do a relaunch that will appeal to a wider audience? If not, then I can't see how this game will sustain itself. It sounds like the current player base is not happy with the changes. If the current player base doesn't stay with the game, I don't think it will grow.
Personally I think this game is on life support. It's only a matter of time until they pull the plug.
I like most of the ideas that Mr. Teerazas has proposed for the future of Vanguard. A few of them need to be kept an eye on since no one wants the game to be too easy, but having a time-sink for the sake of having a time-sink should be a tactic no longer practiced. I do not feel SOE is dumbing down Vanguard, but I hope Vanguard remains challenging yet able to be progressed through.
One thing I was dissappointed in not seeing mentioned was the supposed "free Trial Isle" for Vanguard. Mr. Terrazas mentioned how current players probably have noticed changes for the better & how if a player hasn't played since beta &/or launch they should attempt again to notice the changes though. Really, SOE expects those that felt duped at launch to just get on the Telon train again based on SOE's word? Give us some evidence first to decide to rejoin the ranks or not. The "free Trial Isle" concept would allow this to happen for former & potenially new Vanguard Players.
Overall, I think it was a really good informative letter. Too much of, "We're going to be making this better in the future", but not backing it up though will harm Vanguard's potential too so SOE should make a check-list about what they said they would do & do it. Lots of good ideas though with hopefully more to come for Vanguard. Nice to see that SOE opened up an avenue for players to offer suggestions too, now will they really listen or will they Everquest listen?
The problem with MMORPG's is that I hate to get into a game late. I prefer to be in from the first week atleast. I don't want to get into a game and start playing it when everything has been done or seen, there is nothing new. It ranks up there with reading a book, then watching the movie based on the book, the movie always sucks compared to the book.
So with that said, Vanguard is already over for me, I was in Beta, I bought it at release, I played for a couple months, and the game was crap at release, so I quit. Now everyone is mid to high level, everything has been seen, I will never catch up enough to play with my old guild, or friends directly, and I would be lucky to get to a level that could utilize any upcomming new zones and mobs by the time they are released, since they are usually for max level players.
This is an ongoing problem with MMORPG's, they are released unfinished, and we are expected to be okay with that. They invite 100,000 people into a beta, and then more or less throw away any bug reports that are issued. And most <not all> game companies refuse to listen to the player base.
Beta testing has lost it's purpose. Beta testing is for testing a game, not for all of the fanbase can see the game before release. How can a game justify being beta tested, when the application process is buying a particular magazine that has a code in it, or randomly selecting people from the forums. Beta testing should be taken seriously, and the fact the most companies today don't take it seriously, is why they continue to turn out unfinished products that the average player will cancel the subscription on with in two months.
If a game comapny out there seriously wants to make it's mark on the MMORPG world the they will do a thourgh Apha in house testing, then recruit actual beta testers, people with experience in diffrent aspects of testing.
Any companies out there want to run a serious beta test and turn out a product more complete then the others on the market ? All you have to do is sort through the applications, not just submit them to a random drawing process on your computer. If you are really desperate, or really want to look for the right applicants then send me an e-mail and I will tell you what you need to look for.
The fact is I filled out 6 beta application for the same 15 games over the last 8 years under friends names and information. Rangeing from complete experience to no experience. 8 years ago the two with the highest experience got beta keys. the last few years, it has been completely random.
Not so nice guy!
Whew I am so glad I read this before purchasing this game. If I wanted another stupid dumbed down MMORPG I would play WoW. Thank god this came out so I didn't buy into the garbage. The only issues were bugs and performance issues. Not everyone wants stupid dumb down games like WoW. Alot miss the old EQ.
This is the BEST official comment I have read about Vanguard in a LONG LONG time! I see reality has FINALLY come to their senses. Now I finally, really have hope for Vanguard. This game only will survive if these ideas made reality. It CANT exist in a "harcore niche" because for such big worlds and complex systems there IS NO niche for that, unless you take 50-100 players as sufficient.
And just as a sidenote: get it in your heads that this entire thing is NOT about hardcore or not! 99% of the changes mentioned are just about preventing boring timesinks, like the uneventful long travel. The current corpse run is not difficult, its just a timesink. You die at the bottom of some huge dungeon and have to run down ALL THE WAY again! Thats not difficult or hard, its just silly and boring and a timesink, NOTHING ELSE. I mean, if you enjoy timesinks, play tetris or just randomly delete your characters every other day. All these points mentioned have ZERO to do with the difficulty! They have to do ONLY with "what is fun and what is just a boring waste of time". Getting a bit funny things out of a MMO even if you have just a short time, is a *necessity* for ANY MMO. Sure, we need those difficult, long-term goals too. But atm VG is SO devoid of anything to gain in short tem, and it SORELY needs to add those too. If you *really* read the text and not just yell "water-down" like a Pavlov Dog, you may *see* what this really is about.
It is finally the inevitable necessity is accepted and spoken. Kudos for the guts to say the truth to the fickle fans of VG. I didnt think ever to read something as reasonable and honest as this. Now there is hope.
I really hate to pat myself on the shoulder, but this is 100% what I - and MANY others! - wrote ALL THE TIME. I mean WOW... it reads like a 100% transcript of ALL the comments I ALWAYS wanted to see change in VG, so ... I am ecstatic about VG right now.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I don't think this is about hardcore and non-hardcore at all. What's so hardcore about running back somewhere to get your corpse? What's so hardcore about running across continent to hook-up with a buddy? What's so hardcore about not speeding through levels? Or simplifying character models?
Perhaps corpse runs, cross country exploration, and earning levels are old standards people as a whole just don't want to deal with anymore. Just hand me the keys to the city, instantly make me king, and call it good!
This is all about an economy of time. Just like there are money sinks in MMO's, there are time sinks. That's part of what makes a virtual world what it is. I'm severely disappointed with these proposed changes. In my opinion they are turning Vanguard into WoWGaurd. I play WoW, I like WoW, but let WoW be WoW, and Vanguard be what it is.
I have been waiting for fixes to Vanguard to resubscribe, but now I see more than fixes are planned. Pretty soon I won't even need to be present at the computer to play. In fact, the bot tech is there, just make it part of the game why don't you? Make it so easy that no accomplishment made can be named great. I am 1 of 9 million who have all accomplished the same mediocre thing with little to no effort.
'Tis a sad day for Vanguard. May your dreams rest in peace.
Get it in your heads that this entire thing is NOT about hardcore or not! 99% of the changes mentioned are just about preventing boring timesinks, like the uneventful long travel. The current corpse run is not difficult, its just a timesink. You die at the bottom of some huge dungeon and have to run down ALL THE WAY again! Thats not difficult or hard, its just silly and boring and a timesink, NOTHING ELSE.
I mean, if you enjoy timesinks, play tetris or just randomly delete your characters every other day. All these points mentioned have ZERO to do with the difficulty! They have to do ONLY with "what is fun and what is just a boring waste of time". Getting a bit funny things out of a MMO even if you have just a short time, is a *necessity* for ANY MMO. Sure, we need those difficult, long-term goals too. But atm VG is SO devoid of anything to gain in short tem, and it SORELY needs to add those too. If you *really* read the text and not just yell "water-down" like a Pavlov Dog, you may *see* what this really is about.
This is NOT about handing the keys to the kingdom for LAZYBUMS! Its giving ppl who play 2-3 hours more than a handful of badger claws and a zombie bone! I really would appreciate you STOP yelling out doomsday Apocalypse for VG just because some casual players gets a WEE bit more than currently! Its NOT the end of the world or turning VG upside down!
Ok, there is one thing I would invite everyone who disagrees with the Letter's suggestions to go to the DETAIL and tell us OPENLY what EXACTLY you dont like and why. Its very easy to yell "its watered down" and "its another WOW". I dont take such generalizations serious unless you answer to exact points.
Why is giving rewards also to those who DONT have 8 hours a day to play bad?
Why is slow travel (when it is just boring) so important?
Why is corpse run as it is so imporant? Do you feel the game is really made more interesting because if you die at the bottom of a dungeon heightens your sense of enjoyment, because you have to re-do it all again?
Are not most of the penalities and issues mentioned merely timesinks for the sake of timesinks?
MANY MANY ppl just want to feel a sligh reward and accomplishments even if they have only a short time. It doesnt mean to make them rich and powerful for nothing. But as VG is atm you can play days and days and all I loot is dozens of badger livers and zombie bones. Vg just IS stingy! I dont want them to give me a free manor, but when I end of 2 hour session, I DAMMIT want *some* small, funny thing looted and *some* small feel of having accomplished something. It doesnt mean to take out the greater challanges, it just means to ADD challanges and accomplishments for those with less time. And Eq2 has done JUST THAT as well! There are very rare things and very expensive things which neeed A LOT of time and are VERY hard to come, BIG challanges for LONG TIME commitment. So doing that for Vanguard is the BEST thing to do. And NO: just because you incorporate what is GOOD doesnt mean to make VG an EQ2 copy! It means to learn from others, and only fools dont learn from what others made good.
The BIG folly of the original VG devs like Brad was to re-invent the wheel, to make things different just for the sake of making them different! Sure, there is this vocal lot on the fourms of VG. But if you would look outside you small circles you would realize what a *small* island you are! But I guess you will never wake up to reality. Instead you toss "evil WOW" in and all debate is silenced with sterotypes with catchwords and anti-slogans like "watered down" and WOW-ification.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I understand what is said but I can see why it would be called Hardcore is because you have to be willing to put in the time necessary for accomplishing certain things (such as running with no gear through mobs that will attack to recover your corpse or spending an hour to travel to meet up with a friend) and not just spend 2 minutes to get back to adventuring. My opinion is the time sinks makes one need to think and plan better but have no idea what this game is going to turn into and keep wondering if there will be Classic servers as well as updated ones. Seems like there is a split with the people who play/want to play the game.
I understand what is said but I can see why it would be called Hardcore is because you have to be willing to put in the time necessary for accomplishing certain things (such as running with no gear through mobs that will attack to recover your corpse or spending an hour to travel to meet up with a friend) and not just spend 2 minutes to get back to adventuring. My opinion is the time sinks makes one need to think and plan better but have no idea what this game is going to turn into and keep wondering if there will be Classic servers as well as updated ones. Seems like there is a split with the people who play/want to play the game.
I always said "hardcore"/classic servers would help to end this ENDLESS argument VG faces. I am just so fed with those ppl defending this.
Just one example. Recently I was in Trengal Keep, in a 3 hour session. The loot I got was meager, just verndor trash and some undead bones. Alas, since our healer made a slight mistake, we got a wipe, and later 2 more wipes, one because the MT crashed and one more I dunno why. Then the group disbanded and it was late, because I had work next morning. The result: I had to call my corpse and lost more XP than I had accomplished and had to spent all meager coin for repair. There are just too many short, precious evenings I loose instead of gain, and thats just a BIG "NO NO" for a game. Call that carebearish if you enjoy it, but *my* time is too precious for such frustration.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Get it in your heads that this entire thing is NOT about hardcore or not! 99% of the changes mentioned are just about preventing boring timesinks, like the uneventful long travel. The current corpse run is not difficult, its just a timesink. You die at the bottom of some huge dungeon and have to run down ALL THE WAY again! Thats not difficult or hard, its just silly and boring and a timesink, NOTHING ELSE.
I mean, if you enjoy timesinks, play tetris or just randomly delete your characters every other day. All these points mentioned have ZERO to do with the difficulty! They have to do ONLY with "what is fun and what is just a boring waste of time". Getting a bit funny things out of a MMO even if you have just a short time, is a *necessity* for ANY MMO. Sure, we need those difficult, long-term goals too. But atm VG is SO devoid of anything to gain in short tem, and it SORELY needs to add those too. If you *really* read the text and not just yell "water-down" like a Pavlov Dog, you may *see* what this really is about.
This is NOT about handing the keys to the kingdom for LAZYBUMS! Its giving ppl who play 2-3 hours more than a handful of badger claws and a zombie bone! I really would appreciate you STOP yelling out doomsday Apocalypse for VG just because some casual players gets a WEE bit more than currently! Its NOT the end of the world or turning VG upside down!
Ok, there is one thing I would invite everyone who disagrees with the Letter's suggestions to go to the DETAIL and tell us OPENLY what EXACTLY you dont like and why. Its very easy to yell "its watered down" and "its another WOW". I dont take such generalizations serious unless you answer to exact points.
Why is giving rewards also to those who DONT have 8 hours a day to play bad?
Why is slow travel (when it is just boring) so important?
Why is corpse run as it is so imporant? Do you feel the game is really made more interesting because if you die at the bottom of a dungeon heightens your sense of enjoyment, because you have to re-do it all again?
Are not most of the penalities and issues mentioned merely timesinks for the sake of timesinks?
MANY MANY ppl just want to feel a sligh reward and accomplishments even if they have only a short time. It doesnt mean to make them rich and powerful for nothing. But as VG is atm you can play days and days and all I loot is dozens of badger livers and zombie bones. Vg just IS stingy! I dont want them to give me a free manor, but when I end of 2 hour session, I DAMMIT want *some* small, funny thing looted and *some* small feel of having accomplished something. It doesnt mean to take out the greater challanges, it just means to ADD challanges and accomplishments for those with less time. And Eq2 has done JUST THAT as well! There are very rare things and very expensive things which neeed A LOT of time and are VERY hard to come, BIG challanges for LONG TIME commitment. So doing that for Vanguard is the BEST thing to do. And NO: just because you incorporate what is GOOD doesnt mean to make VG and EQ2 copy! I means to learn from others, and only fools dont learn from what others made good.
The BIG folly of the original VG devs like Brad was to re-invent the wheel, to make things different just for the sake of making them different! Sure, there is this vocal lot on the fourms of VG. But if you would look outside you small circles you would realize what a *small* island you are! But I guess you will never wake up to reality. Instead you toss "evil WOW" in and all debate is silenced with sterotypes with catchwords and anti-slogans like "watered down" and WOW-ification.
I ask why are people so impatient? You'll get your reward. What's wrong with putting some time toward it? I'm a casual player. I can feel accomplishment for doing something in stages vs. being rewarded for every simple thing I do within a 2 hour time span. I don't think Vanguard is trying to horde the feeling of reward and accomplishment away from anyone as it currently stands.
Why is slow travel important? Well because maybe it gives the world a greater sense of scale, so that it feels like a WORLD and not a backyard. Maybe it causes you to notice an area and mark it down to go check out that cool looking cave sometime to see where it leads. Maybe it's just for the beauty of the art and design of different locations. Perhaps it's that sense of danger of walking into the unknown and discovering what is there? It's called exploration and some people still think it's fun.
Corpse runs. Not only is incentive to not get killed and play smarter, but it sometimes can have pleasant unexpected results. I remember a corpse run in the first EQ that caused our whole guild to band together to retrieve it. Later it became a hilariious story we all could laugh about. Other friendships have been made over people helping others to get their corpse back. I know it sounds odd to say, but it can be a social mechanic.
I ask you to consider that in your hurry to the finish, you take the time to observe that not everyone wants to swim in the shallow pool.
For those who think I need a different genre then mmorpgs because I don't like corpse runs, give me a break. I find it tedious, boring and utterly NOT fun. Has nothing to do with difficulty. If you want to play a difficult game play FFXI, and then we'll talk.
I understand that alot of you "hardcore" gamers don't like WoW. That's fine. But of all the mmorpgs I have ever played, when I played it you know what made it FUN and made me want more? The fact that when I died I could go rez in no time at all with minimum weapon damage. Which makes it less of a headache and more of a FUN game. They also made aquiring money alot easier than most games.
Do I feel that Wow could use the graphics and character class depth of Vanguard? You bet, but it doesn't. So SUE me for wanting Vanguard to have the fun aspect and still keeps its fundamental mechanics.
Get it in your heads that this entire thing is NOT about hardcore or not! 99% of the changes mentioned are just about preventing boring timesinks, like the uneventful long travel. The current corpse run is not difficult, its just a timesink. You die at the bottom of some huge dungeon and have to run down ALL THE WAY again! Thats not difficult or hard, its just silly and boring and a timesink, NOTHING ELSE.
I mean, if you enjoy timesinks, play tetris or just randomly delete your characters every other day. All these points mentioned have ZERO to do with the difficulty! They have to do ONLY with "what is fun and what is just a boring waste of time". Getting a bit funny things out of a MMO even if you have just a short time, is a *necessity* for ANY MMO. Sure, we need those difficult, long-term goals too. But atm VG is SO devoid of anything to gain in short tem, and it SORELY needs to add those too. If you *really* read the text and not just yell "water-down" like a Pavlov Dog, you may *see* what this really is about.
This is NOT about handing the keys to the kingdom for LAZYBUMS! Its giving ppl who play 2-3 hours more than a handful of badger claws and a zombie bone! I really would appreciate you STOP yelling out doomsday Apocalypse for VG just because some casual players gets a WEE bit more than currently! Its NOT the end of the world or turning VG upside down!
Ok, there is one thing I would invite everyone who disagrees with the Letter's suggestions to go to the DETAIL and tell us OPENLY what EXACTLY you dont like and why. Its very easy to yell "its watered down" and "its another WOW". I dont take such generalizations serious unless you answer to exact points.
Why is giving rewards also to those who DONT have 8 hours a day to play bad?
Why is slow travel (when it is just boring) so important?
Why is corpse run as it is so imporant? Do you feel the game is really made more interesting because if you die at the bottom of a dungeon heightens your sense of enjoyment, because you have to re-do it all again?
Are not most of the penalities and issues mentioned merely timesinks for the sake of timesinks?
MANY MANY ppl just want to feel a sligh reward and accomplishments even if they have only a short time. It doesnt mean to make them rich and powerful for nothing. But as VG is atm you can play days and days and all I loot is dozens of badger livers and zombie bones. Vg just IS stingy! I dont want them to give me a free manor, but when I end of 2 hour session, I DAMMIT want *some* small, funny thing looted and *some* small feel of having accomplished something. It doesnt mean to take out the greater challanges, it just means to ADD challanges and accomplishments for those with less time. And Eq2 has done JUST THAT as well! There are very rare things and very expensive things which neeed A LOT of time and are VERY hard to come, BIG challanges for LONG TIME commitment. So doing that for Vanguard is the BEST thing to do. And NO: just because you incorporate what is GOOD doesnt mean to make VG and EQ2 copy! I means to learn from others, and only fools dont learn from what others made good.
The BIG folly of the original VG devs like Brad was to re-invent the wheel, to make things different just for the sake of making them different! Sure, there is this vocal lot on the fourms of VG. But if you would look outside you small circles you would realize what a *small* island you are! But I guess you will never wake up to reality. Instead you toss "evil WOW" in and all debate is silenced with sterotypes with catchwords and anti-slogans like "watered down" and WOW-ification.
I ask why are people so impatient? You'll get your reward. What's wrong with putting some time toward it? I'm a casual player. I can feel accomplishment for doing something in stages vs. being rewarded for every simple thing I do within a 2 hour time span. I don't think Vanguard is trying to horde the feeling of reward and accomplishment away from anyone as it currently stands.
Why is slow travel important? Well because maybe it gives the world a greater sense of scale, so that it feels like a WORLD and not a backyard. Maybe it causes you to notice an area and mark it down to go check out that cool looking cave sometime to see where it leads. Maybe it's just for the beauty of the art and design of different locations. Perhaps it's that sense of danger of walking into the unknown and discovering what is there? It's called exploration and some people still think it's fun.
Corpse runs. Not only is incentive to not get killed and play smarter, but it sometimes can have pleasant unexpected results. I remember a corpse run in the first EQ that caused our whole guild to band together to retrieve it. Later it became a hilariious story we all could laugh about. Other friendships have been made over people helping others to get their corpse back. I know it sounds odd to say, but it can be a social mechanic.
I ask you to consider that in your hurry to the finish, you take the time to observe that not everyone wants to swim in the shallow pool.
So where exactly is the correlation between the corpse run and having a good time with the guild? Can't you have a good time with yoru guild doing anything? Why does it have to be a corpse run? Can't it be something more difficult but less time consuming? Corpse runs are easy but they take forever...hence they are boring.
I understand what is said but I can see why it would be called Hardcore is because you have to be willing to put in the time necessary for accomplishing certain things (such as running with no gear through mobs that will attack to recover your corpse or spending an hour to travel to meet up with a friend) and not just spend 2 minutes to get back to adventuring. My opinion is the time sinks makes one need to think and plan better but have no idea what this game is going to turn into and keep wondering if there will be Classic servers as well as updated ones. Seems like there is a split with the people who play/want to play the game.
I always said "hardcore"/classic servers would help to end this ENDLESS argument VG faces. I am just so fed with those ppl defending this.
Just one example. Recently I was in Trengal Keep, in a 3 hour session. The loot I got was meager, just verndor trash and some undead bones. Alas, since our healer made a slight mistake, we got a wipe, and later 2 more wipes, one because the MT crashed and one more I dunno why. Then the group disbanded and it was late, because I had work next morning. The result: I had to call my corpse and lost more XP than I had accomplished and had to spent all meager coin for repair. There are just too many short, precious evenings I loose instead of gain, and thats just a BIG "NO NO" for a game. Call that carebearish if you enjoy it, but *my* time is too precious for such frustration.
No my friend...this is not carebarish. This is common sense. Ironicly the same people who push for hardcore rules are the same people who kill the game. Point in case.
Get it in your heads that this entire thing is NOT about hardcore or not! 99% of the changes mentioned are just about preventing boring timesinks, like the uneventful long travel. The current corpse run is not difficult, its just a timesink. You die at the bottom of some huge dungeon and have to run down ALL THE WAY again! Thats not difficult or hard, its just silly and boring and a timesink, NOTHING ELSE.
I mean, if you enjoy timesinks, play tetris or just randomly delete your characters every other day. All these points mentioned have ZERO to do with the difficulty! They have to do ONLY with "what is fun and what is just a boring waste of time". Getting a bit funny things out of a MMO even if you have just a short time, is a *necessity* for ANY MMO. Sure, we need those difficult, long-term goals too. But atm VG is SO devoid of anything to gain in short tem, and it SORELY needs to add those too. If you *really* read the text and not just yell "water-down" like a Pavlov Dog, you may *see* what this really is about.
This is NOT about handing the keys to the kingdom for LAZYBUMS! Its giving ppl who play 2-3 hours more than a handful of badger claws and a zombie bone! I really would appreciate you STOP yelling out doomsday Apocalypse for VG just because some casual players gets a WEE bit more than currently! Its NOT the end of the world or turning VG upside down!
Ok, there is one thing I would invite everyone who disagrees with the Letter's suggestions to go to the DETAIL and tell us OPENLY what EXACTLY you dont like and why. Its very easy to yell "its watered down" and "its another WOW". I dont take such generalizations serious unless you answer to exact points.
Why is giving rewards also to those who DONT have 8 hours a day to play bad?
Why is slow travel (when it is just boring) so important?
Why is corpse run as it is so imporant? Do you feel the game is really made more interesting because if you die at the bottom of a dungeon heightens your sense of enjoyment, because you have to re-do it all again?
Are not most of the penalities and issues mentioned merely timesinks for the sake of timesinks?
MANY MANY ppl just want to feel a sligh reward and accomplishments even if they have only a short time. It doesnt mean to make them rich and powerful for nothing. But as VG is atm you can play days and days and all I loot is dozens of badger livers and zombie bones. Vg just IS stingy! I dont want them to give me a free manor, but when I end of 2 hour session, I DAMMIT want *some* small, funny thing looted and *some* small feel of having accomplished something. It doesnt mean to take out the greater challanges, it just means to ADD challanges and accomplishments for those with less time. And Eq2 has done JUST THAT as well! There are very rare things and very expensive things which neeed A LOT of time and are VERY hard to come, BIG challanges for LONG TIME commitment. So doing that for Vanguard is the BEST thing to do. And NO: just because you incorporate what is GOOD doesnt mean to make VG and EQ2 copy! I means to learn from others, and only fools dont learn from what others made good.
The BIG folly of the original VG devs like Brad was to re-invent the wheel, to make things different just for the sake of making them different! Sure, there is this vocal lot on the fourms of VG. But if you would look outside you small circles you would realize what a *small* island you are! But I guess you will never wake up to reality. Instead you toss "evil WOW" in and all debate is silenced with sterotypes with catchwords and anti-slogans like "watered down" and WOW-ification.
I ask why are people so impatient? You'll get your reward. What's wrong with putting some time toward it? I'm a casual player. I can feel accomplishment for doing something in stages vs. being rewarded for every simple thing I do within a 2 hour time span. I don't think Vanguard is trying to horde the feeling of reward and accomplishment away from anyone as it currently stands.
Why is slow travel important? Well because maybe it gives the world a greater sense of scale, so that it feels like a WORLD and not a backyard. Maybe it causes you to notice an area and mark it down to go check out that cool looking cave sometime to see where it leads. Maybe it's just for the beauty of the art and design of different locations. Perhaps it's that sense of danger of walking into the unknown and discovering what is there? It's called exploration and some people still think it's fun.
Corpse runs. Not only is incentive to not get killed and play smarter, but it sometimes can have pleasant unexpected results. I remember a corpse run in the first EQ that caused our whole guild to band together to retrieve it. Later it became a hilariious story we all could laugh about. Other friendships have been made over people helping others to get their corpse back. I know it sounds odd to say, but it can be a social mechanic.
I ask you to consider that in your hurry to the finish, you take the time to observe that not everyone wants to swim in the shallow pool.
So where exactly is the correlation between the corpse run and having a good time with the guild? Can't you have a good time with yoru guild doing anything? Why does it have to be a corpse run? Can't it be something more difficult but less time consuming? Corpse runs are easy but they take forever...hence they are boring.
It doesn't have to be a corpse run, but the point is that sometimes a corpse run becomes more than just a boring exercise of patience. I thought my example was pretty clear. And I would hope people would not build a guild around the soul purpose of doing corpse runs.
What you have to understand is that for some people Vanguard was to be a nice warm home-cooked meal in the land of Mc Donalds, Burger King, and Taco Bell MMO's. Not everyone is satisfied with the food pill instant gratification mentality. Not everyone wants to chew down a prefab dinner while in their car driving to their next prefab meal. But games are already in existence that play that way, so why change Vanguard?
Get it in your heads that this entire thing is NOT about hardcore or not! 99% of the changes mentioned are just about preventing boring timesinks, like the uneventful long travel. The current corpse run is not difficult, its just a timesink. You die at the bottom of some huge dungeon and have to run down ALL THE WAY again! Thats not difficult or hard, its just silly and boring and a timesink, NOTHING ELSE.
I mean, if you enjoy timesinks, play tetris or just randomly delete your characters every other day. All these points mentioned have ZERO to do with the difficulty! They have to do ONLY with "what is fun and what is just a boring waste of time". Getting a bit funny things out of a MMO even if you have just a short time, is a *necessity* for ANY MMO. Sure, we need those difficult, long-term goals too. But atm VG is SO devoid of anything to gain in short tem, and it SORELY needs to add those too. If you *really* read the text and not just yell "water-down" like a Pavlov Dog, you may *see* what this really is about.
This is NOT about handing the keys to the kingdom for LAZYBUMS! Its giving ppl who play 2-3 hours more than a handful of badger claws and a zombie bone! I really would appreciate you STOP yelling out doomsday Apocalypse for VG just because some casual players gets a WEE bit more than currently! Its NOT the end of the world or turning VG upside down!
Ok, there is one thing I would invite everyone who disagrees with the Letter's suggestions to go to the DETAIL and tell us OPENLY what EXACTLY you dont like and why. Its very easy to yell "its watered down" and "its another WOW". I dont take such generalizations serious unless you answer to exact points.
Why is giving rewards also to those who DONT have 8 hours a day to play bad?
Why is slow travel (when it is just boring) so important?
Why is corpse run as it is so imporant? Do you feel the game is really made more interesting because if you die at the bottom of a dungeon heightens your sense of enjoyment, because you have to re-do it all again?
Are not most of the penalities and issues mentioned merely timesinks for the sake of timesinks?
MANY MANY ppl just want to feel a sligh reward and accomplishments even if they have only a short time. It doesnt mean to make them rich and powerful for nothing. But as VG is atm you can play days and days and all I loot is dozens of badger livers and zombie bones. Vg just IS stingy! I dont want them to give me a free manor, but when I end of 2 hour session, I DAMMIT want *some* small, funny thing looted and *some* small feel of having accomplished something. It doesnt mean to take out the greater challanges, it just means to ADD challanges and accomplishments for those with less time. And Eq2 has done JUST THAT as well! There are very rare things and very expensive things which neeed A LOT of time and are VERY hard to come, BIG challanges for LONG TIME commitment. So doing that for Vanguard is the BEST thing to do. And NO: just because you incorporate what is GOOD doesnt mean to make VG and EQ2 copy! I means to learn from others, and only fools dont learn from what others made good.
The BIG folly of the original VG devs like Brad was to re-invent the wheel, to make things different just for the sake of making them different! Sure, there is this vocal lot on the fourms of VG. But if you would look outside you small circles you would realize what a *small* island you are! But I guess you will never wake up to reality. Instead you toss "evil WOW" in and all debate is silenced with sterotypes with catchwords and anti-slogans like "watered down" and WOW-ification.
I ask why are people so impatient? You'll get your reward. What's wrong with putting some time toward it? I'm a casual player. I can feel accomplishment for doing something in stages vs. being rewarded for every simple thing I do within a 2 hour time span. I don't think Vanguard is trying to horde the feeling of reward and accomplishment away from anyone as it currently stands.
Why is slow travel important? Well because maybe it gives the world a greater sense of scale, so that it feels like a WORLD and not a backyard. Maybe it causes you to notice an area and mark it down to go check out that cool looking cave sometime to see where it leads. Maybe it's just for the beauty of the art and design of different locations. Perhaps it's that sense of danger of walking into the unknown and discovering what is there? It's called exploration and some people still think it's fun.
Corpse runs. Not only is incentive to not get killed and play smarter, but it sometimes can have pleasant unexpected results. I remember a corpse run in the first EQ that caused our whole guild to band together to retrieve it. Later it became a hilariious story we all could laugh about. Other friendships have been made over people helping others to get their corpse back. I know it sounds odd to say, but it can be a social mechanic.
I ask you to consider that in your hurry to the finish, you take the time to observe that not everyone wants to swim in the shallow pool.
So where exactly is the correlation between the corpse run and having a good time with the guild? Can't you have a good time with yoru guild doing anything? Why does it have to be a corpse run? Can't it be something more difficult but less time consuming? Corpse runs are easy but they take forever...hence they are boring.
It doesn't have to be a corpse run, but the point is that sometimes a corpse run becomes more than just a boring exercise of patience. I thought my example was pretty clear. And I would hope people would not build a guild around the soul purpose of doing corpse runs.
What you have to understand is that for some people Vanguard was to be a nice warm home-cooked meal in the land of Mc Donalds, Burger King, and Taco Bell MMO's. Not everyone is satisfied with the food pill instant gratification mentality. Not everyone wants to chew down a prefab dinner while in their car driving to their next prefab meal. But games are already in existence that play that way, so why change Vanguard?
VAngaurd may have been sold/hyped as a nice warm home-cooked meal, but it is more likened to that Angus burger and everyone is asking what part of the cow the angus comes from. Why change Vanguard, to make money.
Really? Did they give it chance to be anything? They're changing mechanics before the game is fixed. They're turning it into EQ2 before it has a chance be Vanguard. I really think this is a mistake, and believe that they could easily profit from a game that is reminiscent of the challenges early MMO's provided, with updated graphics and features. Like Vanguard was planned to be.