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So a few questions for the DFF
Since I got into a bit of a tussle with a few DFF (dark fall faithful) after cruising into that thread here about the WAR pushback...
I decided to look into DF and ask a few questions.
1. Why the faithful following for a game that by any historical game development standard is vaporware? I don't mean that in the cruel and evil way it might seem (I still await the nest Duke Nuke'em) I mean that honestly. A game in a cycle of creation this long has some serious problems. Look at the most recent long cycle game that actually released, Vanguard. That game at least had reached beta... (not that it appearantly did any good at all)
2. Open loot FFA... gee yeah know I'm a pretty decently hard core player myself, but the FFA looting, sucks. I know, realism, only the hardcore... blah blah blah. I get it. I want to know not why you LIKE IT, but do you really think there is a large enough market for a game so, hardcore? Again, MMO history, Shadowbane, Vanguard. The old saying "History repeats itself" isn't just for hallmark cards.
3. Awesome idea! Real Time dodging! Like hell it's gonna work over the net. I mean do any of you REALLY believe that such a system will function in an MMO setting? Maybe if they had widely dispersed servers and you were restricted by a range/ping limit. Otherwise simple physics makes this an impossible goal. So, why do you root for the impossible?
Anyway, from what I have read, seen and heard so far I am intrigued because I applaud innovation, but I also am a core skeptic based on many dashed hopes and dreams.
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Comments
Good questions.
1# The list of features that DF will have is nothing ever seen in a MMO before. So who would be stupid to think it would be developed in the same time as a WoW clone style MMO? (5 years).
2# The open PvP and Full loot is what makes the DF world to work. Empire building and big clan/race wars would be pointless if there were nothing to loose.
3# Because all other MMO companys say its impossible to make anything different that WoW, doesnt mean its impossible.
And i really want them to try. If noone dares to try......whats the point?
"We're sick of all these holding hand noobfriendly grind fests, hey, lets create Darkfall!"
2) You are right in the sense that most players don't like this. It shows. So many played, Ill use WoW again, WoW and other games that offer item insurance, no loot, no death penalty. The majority of online gameers want this. There is no arguement about it. But what about that other 10% who do want it (Estimation of course). If I remember right I once read a statement on the DF forums stating they were to open two servers, one in Europe and one in the US. I read this a long time ago though and perhpas that has changed. So it would seem that they are not expecting so many players...once again that may be really old information so take it for what its worth.
3) Connection issue has always been an issue in any online multiplayer game however I think nowadays the issue is very minor. Once again using UO...when it first came out, ping was a big deal....but I have played on servers in several parts of the world, and if I die once out of 50 times due to lag or connection, I would consider it still playable. I don't think connection issues are as big of a problem these days.
Always change your signature.
Great questions. I too am very intested in this game. I too am extremely worried about your #2 on the list. Faction vs Faction is awesome. No instances is awesome. Fighting for land, sea, and air is awesome. But to me, FULL loot will hold this game back from its full potential. Have pack loot and have sack loot where when you sack a town you loot the guild's vaults. I'm talking player bank vaults and all. Everything in the bank is open to being stolen in a town roll. That is awesome. But individual stuff that is equipped when a player dies needs to remain with the player.
On the forums people have said "you don't fight in your good gear." Well, if that is the case then there shouldn't be good gear at all. People say this will be another Eve. No, sadly to say that in that great sand box of a game there are safety nets. You have cloning and you have insurance so you don't lose it all.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
Same goes for AoC, I don't think that game is going to be able deliver on it's promises as well.
Always change your signature.
yea we know the game is real and we know the game is close to beta it just the matter of quality we cant answer that until beta starts
Basic gear is going to be relatively cheap and won't require massive amounts of time to become a competent fighter.
Question # 2.
Unless I am mistaken, and I truly doubt I am, your gear will be of minor significance compared to the majority of current mmo's. The whole point is that your gear wont affect you that much, so it doesn't matter if you dont bring your best in, or if you lose your best. Also, gear is not to be expensive. You will be able to lose your gear, and replace it in very minimal time, for cheap.
Well, I'd call EVE such a game, and while its not in the big leagues, having 200K subs is a decent amount and it continues to go up...4 years later..... considering EVE's narrow appeal (non-fantasy, somewhat slow, no playable avatars) thats pretty remarkable.Its not really fair to look at the market for comparisons to other FFA PVP games, because since UO there's been very few that were done well. Shadowbane was terribly executed and VG doesn't qualify.
We'll never know if FFA Full Loot can work until someone actually creates a good game that includes it.....
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Basic gear is going to be relatively cheap and won't require massive amounts of time to become a competent fighter.
If you have safe banking instead of safe equipped gear, there is no such thing as a guild ever getting the opportunity to get their stuff back or more importantly, getting revenge.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
Basic gear is going to be relatively cheap and won't require massive amounts of time to become a competent fighter.
If you have safe banking instead of safe equipped gear, there is no such thing as a guild ever getting the opportunity to get their stuff back or more importantly, getting revenge.
They might not get their stuff back if
A) They don't equip it and just keep it in the bank for show(Which is completely useless)
I'd say its likely that they will keep the items they won and use it at a later date of course you could just take them out BEFORE they get to a bank which gives you a much greater reward.
Just throwing this out there, and I do follow DF as some of you know:
If gear means little to nothing, then what is the point of full loot? "Damn, you took my sword that will take 5 minutes to get again".
Why not just remove gear from the game statistically, and have gear only affect appearance? It would make the game more skill based than it already is.
And to the poster who was asking about fighting for land water and air, flying mounts aren't in the game anymore.
yea they decided not to put flying in it defeats the purpose of city walls xD and some other stuff.
cause gear does help a lil nothing like Wow but there is some special items plus gear with some stats will help make profit we really dont know how it works but if the gear isnt worth anything but look whats the point of looting it then XD
it probly be like stats elder scroll style like 3 attack or 4 attack not very big jumps
That is basically what I am asking. If gear isn't a big deal it won't feel like much of a loss or gain.
it probly be something liek noobie gear 1 def and the highest 20
but still keeping a 2p4 1 ratio newbie to a 1 year player or something it all depends
That is basically what I am asking. If gear isn't a big deal it won't feel like much of a loss or gain.
Looting keeps the economy rollin', crafters will be essential to any clan to survive; a clan wont survive just by PvPing (not in the long run anyway) and this, and item degradation, keeps the value of armors and weapons high enough. It was almost the same thing in UO, and that game wasn't even designed all that well and it still worked (well, sort of).
I think its weird to belive there is no market for a DF style MMO. What makes you think that?
1997 come UO, and that did very well over a number of years. Later come Shadowbane...and found a large community. After that....there have not been a MMO for that playstyle.
So soon maybe the world will get the third one (DF). And if there were online gamers in 1997 to support it....i seriously dont belive they have decreased in numbers in 2008.
1. A good while back I started looking for new MMO's to play and I identified several that were promising features that I was interested in. Darkfall was one of them and I've kept an eye on it. However after the Dark&Light debacle I have backed off and went to a much more wait and see attitude. Which is why I wasn't in the first wave of Vanguard players and haven't ever picked it up although I was pretty excited when they announced it. I think people keep following games like Darfall is because they promise so much that just isn't out there at the moment. Personally I have doubts about this game actually coming out but I'll continue to keep a distant eye on it just in case.
2. Like mentioned above this does seem to work in Eve Online. I think one of the problems with peoples perception of FFA PvP is that they don't want to loose that 'sword of ultimate doom' they looted after playing in a raid for 48 hours straight and want to be able run around in gay abandon showing it off to everybody. I personnaly don't really participate in PvP but I like the risk and atmosphere that gets added to the game by it. In Eve I think the fact everything is destructable and combustable and nearly everything can be player built keeps the economy a lot more active. I also really like the idea that area's in the game can be conquered and structures or areas can be attacked or defended.
3. At present you're right. What the future will bring nobody knows.
I support Belgiums efforts to get noticed ... at all.
Even the UO team was forced to alter the FFA of the game because of the low number of people willing to pay to lose what they had earned.
I'll use WAR since I know more about it then any other upcoming game, you kill other players but you loot off a random loot table vs looting that player. Sure it takes some of the"risk" away, but it also means you don't lose what you played to earn and keeps the "fun" factor there.
I think a majority of gamers in this post-WoW gaming enviroment that we are in will look at the systems andbe turned off to the thought of losing what is "mine" to someone else. Mind you I'm being merely a realist about this, nothing more.
Always change your signature.
Even the UO team was forced to alter the FFA of the game because of the low number of people willing to pay to lose what they had earned.
I'll use WAR since I know more about it then any other upcoming game, you kill other players but you loot off a random loot table vs looting that player. Sure it takes some of the"risk" away, but it also means you don't lose what you played to earn and keeps the "fun" factor there.
I think a majority of gamers in this post-WoW gaming enviroment that we are in will look at the systems andbe turned off to the thought of losing what is "mine" to someone else. Mind you I'm being merely a realist about this, nothing more.
I still think the only way FFA Full looting works is if you follow EVE's model where players can make virtually everything in the game....and when something is a special which only NPC's drop (EVE has em) the frequency of dropping has to be reasonably high..so that they are always available for purchase in the open market at a somewhat affordable price. (Also, BOP gear is a big no no)The thing to stay away from is forcing players to PVE for hours and hours to obtain some rare magic sword of whoop arse.....that they may never have the fortune of find ever again..because no one wants to lose one of them.
In EVE I outfitted a new Battleship last evening, and spent roughly 200 million ISK on it. To some, this is a lot of money, to others its a pittance, to me..... about a fifth of my total fortune. (not counting stockpiled ships). I would hate to have it blown up and looted....(even though I'd get about 1/2 its value back from insurance) but I'm still going to go out tonight and fly it in a fleet engagement. If I die and lose it....I'm not going to like it ..and the victors are going to rejoice in their spoils...... so the loot is meaningful...but not irreplacable...I can fit another one just like it tomorrow.....
Also, I think you still need to include some areas where PVP is difficult or limited, much like EVE's Empire space.....that way the less combat inclined have a placed to participate in the world (they make some of the best crafters btw) and everyone can have a good time.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Full loot is not scary at all guys. Have you ever played a full loot game? Once again going back to UO...the value of items is low. It is that simple. People who play item based games can't comprehend full loot cause they think, "omg i just spent 2 weeks getting this shield and now it will be looted!!!" its not like that. Items in a full loot game don't have much value. Ive never played EVE so I can't compare that ,but I would imagine it is similar. Full loot is fun.
When I started UO I hated the idea of losing everything I just hunted for. It was hard and I took being pked personal like 90% of the gaming world would/does. Then one day I learned the game. It took me one year to be average in pvp, of course i was on a free shard where pvpers are usually a little better, but still. It took me that long to finally accept the system, and it has never gotten boring since. I have never gotten into a game that is level based or item based, cause the winner is guranteed anyone who has better gear or higher level.
Id recommend trying Darkfall if it ever comes out....make sure you join a decent guild, and some day you may be on here explaining why full loot is so much more fun. And if you dont like it, then atleast you tried a different style of mmo. As far as im concerned nothing has matched the gameplay of OLD UO, and Darkfall is the only thing in the near future that is close.
Just wanted to point that one out.
"Full loot is not scary at all guys. Have you ever played a full loot game?"
Ya I have. Asheron's Call on the DarkTide server or just doing the quest on the PvE servers to turn PvP. Or turn Red as it was called...
And let me tell you , the Darktide server had about a few hundred players as opposed to the PvE ones that had thousands.
If you don't think it sucks big Donkey balls to lose all your stuff when you get killed then you must be a glutton for punishment. People don't play games to get hassled. They play them to have fun.
Even if Darkfall ever does launch.. it's going to have a very low server pop because of it's style alone.. It's not a success waiting to happpen.. I'll gurantee you that much.
Whoever designed this game didn't intend on making much money off it that's for sure...
Sure there's plenty of hardcore PvP'ers out there but not in MMORPG's. They are mainly in FPA games. The reason it works there is because there is no time investment and the playing field is always equal. You don't lose anything when you get killed.
I got enough bullshit to worry about in real life. I don't need to worry about some snot nosed 13 y/o walking up behind me wanting to let me know how big his E-peen is by killing me and everyone else he comes across for no reason... Leave that shit where it belongs -- in Quake 3 Arena..
CAN I GET AN AMEN
No actually I play Quake 3 and BF2 constantly... I enjoy pounding tanks into submission with my TV guided missles from the attack choppers...
I just have the logic to see things as they are..