Fast Paced, Faster if possible. There is only one way to have fun in this game and that is to turn off all the Quest Beginning and Finishing pointers. Otherwise it's a LOOK MOM another no Brainer.
Although it is a great game for beginners to get the idea there is more to a game than follow the little yellow arrows.
Turn em off and it will last a long time but otherwise it's to hard on the legs.
Terrorism!!! Seriously, this kind of sentiment sounds good on paper, but in the here and now there's no reason to hold such a grudge against a specific game just because the industry happens to work this way. At least try making your own MMORPG before insisting that they've no excuse to release the game "unfinished."
And this sort of mindless puerile comment does nothing to address the failings of the industry. it is just the sort of reaction I expect from the fanboiz willing to waste their money on shallow, unfinished work.
Like I said, don't roll out the old excuse of 'but they all do this' and expect me to swallow it. It's a crap excuse, from lazy developers, foisted on an audience with low expectations
raise the bar, expect more for your money, and don't accept half-complete products
Again you just say its shit. You want something better. Well, then tell the world what is better! For me you look like someone who sits bored before his computer and doesnt know what to do. You are angry at yourself because you are bored and so you write in forums that every game is crap. My advise to you: write your own game, Then you'll see how difficult it is. And if you succeed come back and write your ciriticsm again.
Man, this is why TR needs their own forums where only subscribers can post. The amount of bs in this thread is unreal. I think the vast majority of people actually playing the game really like it. I couldn't care less what some retard who doesn't even play thinks about "the industry".
I've got a question for you guys. What would make it new? What would make it innovative? What would make it fun? What do you want from these games that you seem unable to get? Personally, I think it's possible that a majority of MMO players are so incredibly jaded that no matter what new feature was implemented, they'd complain that it had already been done and that it wasn't new, innovative or fun. Now admittedly, I'd like a game that played more like a world, but even that's nothing new! Asheron's Call, Ultima Online and Everquest already gave us that! In fact, I'd go back to Asheron's Call if it weren't loaded down with bots, and if the real atmosphere of the game hadn't already been taken away in order to 'compete'. So what innovative feature do you want?
Now see...you answered your own question. (well, except for including EQ in your list...that one doesn't belong)
That's exactly what some people want to see.... a game that doesn't follow the traditional class, level, PVE grind a ton of pointless fetch/kill quests like games of the past several years (WOW, LotRO, VG, COH/COV etc)
We want to be able to build cities...and tear other peoples cities down. We want the freedom to develop our characters along whatever lines we want (skill based vs class) and we're tired of being told our character isn't wanted in the group because we aren't the right spec or the right fit for it.
In fact, we want a fun, enriching solo game along with decent incentives to group in certain situations.
You're correct, much of this isn't new or innovative, but it seems to have been forgotten since the early days of UO and AC.
EQ actually started the madness, and its been rolling downhill ever since. (for those of us who don't favor PVE oriented MMO's).
TR was created by "Lord British"..... the man who "created" UO (I suspect other folks had more of hand in its actual success actually, but thats another debate) and UO had so many of these features. So naturally we expected him to bring us something more along the lines of an improved UO.... but instead we got.... TR as it is today.
We're disappointed is all. TR might be a fine game, once again for the PVE crowd..... but for the rest of us looking for more a world to play in....we're left out in the cold yet again.
See red text....exactly.
Notice: The views expressed in this post are solely those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the reviews of MMORPG.com or its management.
Hi, I think people expect too much from an mmorpg. they expect something new, refreshing! well what new then? A quiz within the mmorpg? I think not. Housing? Not new. A stock market? not new. Technical invention? Happens all the time, not very exciting. Crafting? Old thing. So what do people wish as new? Perhaps a mmorpg, where you have to buy a costume such that you may feel how it hurts when you get a sword into your loins. I think not! I think people want something new, but they don't know what. Just read those postings of criticsm. Most of them only say what's bad, but they don't say how to do it in a way more fun. Most of the time it's just destructive criticsm and not constructive. They do it this way because they dont know what they want. So I cannot take them seriously. greetings loonyalex
I think your right with what you say, but the problem is also a matter of the worst of all sins: money.
Money causes many games to fail, even offline. Here are a few examples: Games get released earlier, unfinished, games are changed to suit the publisher's perception and themes and ideas are recycled in hope of imitating success.
Even if the developer has enough money for trying out new stuff, they will go to the old concepts, because they want to make even more money. A sad example is Westwood Studios: They did a lot of (for that time) innovative games, mainly CnC, and gained amazing success; Still they faded away! And why? Because after their success with CnC, they created just more CnC! There was not major advancement from CnC to CnC Red Alert 2 (still only one resource, still not able to place building far from each other, still two groups/nations opposing each other...)
(Please forgive me minor factual mistakes with CnC)
So if we get the money out (impossible) we could eliminate this barrier locking away the creativity of game designers. (For the guy talking about the education being the problem: Education teaches you to go after the money!)
Serazahr
-> Rise of the Infernal Age <- Is getting prepeared for Warcraft 4 (hopefully with innovative stuff.)
Originally posted by Kyleran Now see...you answered your own question. (well, except for including EQ in your list...that one doesn't belong)
That's exactly what some people want to see.... a game that doesn't follow the traditional class, level, PVE grind a ton of pointless fetch/kill quests like games of the past several years (WOW, LotRO, VG, COH/COV etc) We want to be able to build cities...and tear other peoples cities down. We want the freedom to develop our characters along whatever lines we want (skill based vs class) and we're tired of being told our character isn't wanted in the group because we aren't the right spec or the right fit for it. In fact, we want a fun, enriching solo game along with decent incentives to group in certain situations. You're correct, much of this isn't new or innovative, but it seems to have been forgotten since the early days of UO and AC. EQ actually started the madness, and its been rolling downhill ever since. (for those of us who don't favor PVE oriented MMO's). TR was created by "Lord British"..... the man who "created" UO (I suspect other folks had more of hand in its actual success actually, but thats another debate) and UO had so many of these features. So naturally we expected him to bring us something more along the lines of an improved UO.... but instead we got.... TR as it is today. We're disappointed is all. TR might be a fine game, once again for the PVE crowd..... but for the rest of us looking for more a world to play in....we're left out in the cold yet again.
You're right, EQ shouldn't have been in that list. Not sure what I was thinking.
So, the real problem is that we need to change what we say when we talk about what we want. (I say 'we' because while I'm content to play the games that are out now for whatever length of time that they remain interesting to me is, I know that I won't really play a game again until it's a world). Instead of using the words 'new' and 'innovative', which are nothing but useless, superficial buzz words that do nothing to further the cause, we need to start declaring more openly that what we want is the things you've mentioned above.
I, too, long for a skill-based game that feels like a world, much like Dereth did in its early days.
So we, the ex-AC and UO players, those who have burned themselves out on the PvE grind of World of Warcraft, and the PvP fans who long for something more, all need to start saying more loudly that what we want is:
A virtual world with skill-based advancement.
Am I right?
--------
"Give a man a fire, and he is warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he is warm for the rest of his life."
in response to your question int he title. simple answer, "because the game is terrible". i could explain why, but i have done it before and dont want to waste my time writing it again.
The only thing that I know is that Im loving playing TR!! But...it might be coincidence but the worse bashing and trolling about this game are from players of Star Wars Galaxies and Neocron. They talk how bad that TR is and then they praise the joy of playing theyr loving games. Could it be that they are afraid of losing players?
What you describe is a mixture out of Lotro, Wow, GuildWars and perhaps some other MMO. But I would guess If you would see it, you would consider it old, because it's nothing new. Also, if you want to have a world with housing and so on, it has to fit into the back story and in Tabula Ras it just doesn't fit. It would make no sense at all to build in housing or city building into Tabula Rasa.
Well I have read your history of entries. What you said as criticsm for Tabula Rasa could be said in two words: shit, expensive. Not very constructive, don't you think?
Originally posted by loonyalex @abhaigh ; Again you just say its shit. You want something better. Well, then tell the world what is better! For me you look like someone who sits bored before his computer and doesnt know what to do. You are angry at yourself because you are bored and so you write in forums that every game is crap. My advise to you: write your own game, Then you'll see how difficult it is. And if you succeed come back and write your ciriticsm again.
how about you take this advice - try defending the game instead of attacking its critics with ad hominem attacks and useless challenges?
You don't know me, have no idea who I am or what my feelings are, don't diminish yourself by talking crap, tossing insults around, and generally playing the righteously indignant fanboi.
as for what is better? a complete, mature product that is released when, and only when, it is ready to be released.
TR might be complete and mature in 6 months, right now it is a shallow, unfinished product that resembles an MMO, and no matter how much you whine, cry, and complain about my POV on the game will either change its current status, or my opinons regarding it. in fact, all you can do by insulting me personally is make yourself look like an idiot
you know, it is usually better to keep quiet and have people wonder if you are a fool or not, than it is to speak up and confirm it for them.
I'm afraid your indulging in the ad hominem has confirmed your status
i just cant get tabula rasa to run well on any of my computers , they play the likes of hellgate london and most new games with ease . i ve also seen it played on other peoples systems they all have similar problems with it . i d love to see it do well but unless things improve i really could nt recomend the current product to anyone . as much as i d like to think otherwise this maybe another vanguard in the making .
Originally posted by loonyalex @abhaigh ; Again you just say its shit. You want something better. Well, then tell the world what is better! For me you look like someone who sits bored before his computer and doesnt know what to do. You are angry at yourself because you are bored and so you write in forums that every game is crap. My advise to you: write your own game, Then you'll see how difficult it is. And if you succeed come back and write your ciriticsm again.
how about you take this advice - try defending the game instead of attacking its critics with ad hominem attacks and useless challenges?
You don't know me, have no idea who I am or what my feelings are, don't diminish yourself by talking crap, tossing insults around, and generally playing the righteously indignant fanboi.
as for what is better? a complete, mature product that is released when, and only when, it is ready to be released.
TR might be complete and mature in 6 months, right now it is a shallow, unfinished product that resembles an MMO, and no matter how much you whine, cry, and complain about my POV on the game will either change its current status, or my opinons regarding it. in fact, all you can do by insulting me personally is make yourself look like an idiot
you know, it is usually better to keep quiet and have people wonder if you are a fool or not, than it is to speak up and confirm it for them.
I'm afraid your indulging in the ad hominem has confirmed your status
Useless challenges?
Is it useless to think about how to do something better, if I or you have criticsm on something?
Is it useless to give reasons for its critics or opinion, when written in a forum?
I think not. i call it constructive criticsm.
For the record: Neither do I want to change your opinion nor do I defend the game. You may not like the game. Thats ok. But when you critisize something by saying that it's an unfinished product, i expect some reasons why. But I don't see any reasons for it in your statements in this thread.
I may be a fool. And I may be a fanboy. So what? But you won't see me bashing a product without giving reasons and ideas how to make it better.
in response to your question int he title. simple answer, "because the game is terrible". i could explain why, but i have done it before and dont want to waste my time writing it again.
That is one of the most selfish things I've ever read. 'Terrible' is subjective -- no, don't argue about it. It is.
Like I said earlier; not wanting others to get the chance to enjoy something because you happen not to enjoy it is one of the symptoms of a much larger social disease.
I may be a fool. And I may be a fanboy. So what? But you won't see me bashing a product without giving reasons and ideas how to make it better.
Read my post history, I've gone into both why it fails and how to improve it at length, I'm not about to repost that information simply because you are too lazy to look for it
Man, this is why TR needs their own forums where only subscribers can post. The amount of bs in this thread is unreal. I think the vast majority of people actually playing the game really like it. I couldn't care less what some retard who doesn't even play thinks about "the industry".
Then why are you here, reading these posts?
I'm sure there are fansites with friendlier discussions going on.... no reason to distress yourself over the debates/flames going on here....
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Originally posted by loonyalex @abhaigh ; Again you just say its shit. You want something better. Well, then tell the world what is better! For me you look like someone who sits bored before his computer and doesnt know what to do. You are angry at yourself because you are bored and so you write in forums that every game is crap. My advise to you: write your own game, Then you'll see how difficult it is. And if you succeed come back and write your ciriticsm again.
how about you take this advice - try defending the game instead of attacking its critics with ad hominem attacks and useless challenges?
You don't know me, have no idea who I am or what my feelings are, don't diminish yourself by talking crap, tossing insults around, and generally playing the righteously indignant fanboi.
as for what is better? a complete, mature product that is released when, and only when, it is ready to be released.
TR might be complete and mature in 6 months, right now it is a shallow, unfinished product that resembles an MMO, and no matter how much you whine, cry, and complain about my POV on the game will either change its current status, or my opinons regarding it. in fact, all you can do by insulting me personally is make yourself look like an idiot
you know, it is usually better to keep quiet and have people wonder if you are a fool or not, than it is to speak up and confirm it for them.
I'm afraid your indulging in the ad hominem has confirmed your status
You confuse the heck out of me Abhaigh.
In some of your posts you state your total dislike for the game which nobody could or would want to argue with, I mean... you obviously were passionate about the game at one point and it truly must have let you down. I don't think anybody here has any interest in challenging your feelings on the game ( at least I don't.) I mean, I felt the same way about a game you love, bought the game, finished the PvE inside of 2 weeks, found the PvP a total let down and couldn't bring myself to log in after 3 weeks of play, even for free. I bought expansion after expansion while praying it would get better and it never did, but that is just my opinion, like yours on TR. I could sit here and list all of my reasons for not liking that other game, but why? I am content in accepting that it simply wasn't for me and letting those who love it, play it and enjoy it.
But then, I also see you directly attack anyone buying this game or enjoying it. I just found a dozen quotes in your history that are direct attacks on the playerbase and those enjoying the game. It seems in your opinion, anyone who doesn't agree with you is "dumb" or "has more sense than money" etc...
I'm just curious, sincerely, why it is that you can be passionate about one game and yet knock those who are passionate about another, simply because you disagree with them? Obviously people are different and will like different things, thankfully, or this world would get stale very quickly, wouldn;t you agree?
Like I said, I am just confused... especially after reading your post here in this thread, as I see you have attacked people without thinking twice about it for months and even gone as far to state how worth it would be to pay 50 bucks to watch the russians murder Richard Garriott.
Originally posted by Kyleran Now see...you answered your own question. (well, except for including EQ in your list...that one doesn't belong) That's exactly what some people want to see.... a game that doesn't follow the traditional class, level, PVE grind a ton of pointless fetch/kill quests like games of the past several years (WOW, LotRO, VG, COH/COV etc) We want to be able to build cities...and tear other peoples cities down. We want the freedom to develop our characters along whatever lines we want (skill based vs class) and we're tired of being told our character isn't wanted in the group because we aren't the right spec or the right fit for it. In fact, we want a fun, enriching solo game along with decent incentives to group in certain situations. You're correct, much of this isn't new or innovative, but it seems to have been forgotten since the early days of UO and AC. EQ actually started the madness, and its been rolling downhill ever since. (for those of us who don't favor PVE oriented MMO's). TR was created by "Lord British"..... the man who "created" UO (I suspect other folks had more of hand in its actual success actually, but thats another debate) and UO had so many of these features. So naturally we expected him to bring us something more along the lines of an improved UO.... but instead we got.... TR as it is today. We're disappointed is all. TR might be a fine game, once again for the PVE crowd..... but for the rest of us looking for more a world to play in....we're left out in the cold yet again.
You're right, EQ shouldn't have been in that list. Not sure what I was thinking.
So, the real problem is that we need to change what we say when we talk about what we want. (I say 'we' because while I'm content to play the games that are out now for whatever length of time that they remain interesting to me is, I know that I won't really play a game again until it's a world). Instead of using the words 'new' and 'innovative', which are nothing but useless, superficial buzz words that do nothing to further the cause, we need to start declaring more openly that what we want is the things you've mentioned above.
I, too, long for a skill-based game that feels like a world, much like Dereth did in its early days.
So we, the ex-AC and UO players, those who have burned themselves out on the PvE grind of World of Warcraft, and the PvP fans who long for something more, all need to start saying more loudly that what we want is:
A virtual world with skill-based advancement.
Am I right?
I agree completely. Though just for the sake of the MMORPG staffer that saw fit to highlight one word of my original post I guess I must over-emphasize the fact that this is what "some" people want from their games..... (but I was quite careful not to use "all", or "many" or "a great majority")
And although I never played AC/UO I did start my career in MMO's on Lineage 1/2, DAOC and Shadowbane, and the key ingredient for me there was the ability to affect the game world with my PVP actions. Only since I started playing EVE did I come to appreciate the beauty of a virtual world and skill based advancement. (now I don't have to keep re-rolling those damn alts)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"Why do some of you want this game to fail so badly?" Simply, If people dont buy crap games developers will try making better ones.
Fair enough of an opinion.
Kind of the same reason I haven't bought a Chevy since I started driving 20 years ago. Thankfully there's a large portion of the world that disagrees with me Keeps things interesting!
The game companies are making what people want. How do they know that it is what people want? Because that is what people buy. People vote with their dollars.
Games with depth, innovation and all the other stuff that the trolls here keep mentioning with eternal reverence have been launched. These games (to name a few) were:
Anarchy Online
EVE Online
Star Wars Galaxies
Saga of Ryzom
And what did people do? NOT buy them. This was the world’s way of saying “we do not want these kinds of games, give us something else!”. So there came WoW and EQ2 and LoTRO feature pretty graphics, simple gameplay and complete and utter lack of innovation or artistic vision. And what did people say? They said “Yes! This is what we want! Here is our money!”
So the next time you have 50 million dollars, throw it my way and I’ll be glad to make you a game with innovation and artistic vision that nobody is going to buy. Seriously, I have pages full of plans and details on the most sophisticated and involving MMO ever created. It would meet all the wishes listed in this thread. And it would fail utterly because 10,000 or even 20,000 accounts of dedicated and smart players that would actually appreciate it would never be able to sustain it.
This thread is so full of BS that it isn’t even funny.
Talk about criticism and trolling? Saying that “TR has average graphics on par with existing MMOs but does not push the boundary in this regard” would be objective criticism. Saying that it has 8-year-old graphics is exaggeration, trolling and BS. After being out for more than 3 years, EQ2 still has the best quality graphics in the genre. NO ONE has pushed the boundary including TR. TR’s graphics are better than a lot of releases (remember Vanguard’s terrible wooden animations and 5 hairstyle choice for the entire race?) and worse than possibly two – EQ2 and LoTRO, although I’d say TR is on par with LoTRO, just LoTRO has better art direction. Anyhow, that is objective criticism. Comparing TR with AO is retarted. I played AO for more than 3 years and logged into it very recently, I’ll post a screenie or two for comparison when I get home if I can find em. TR has some of the most fluid and realistic animations I’ve seen in an MMO and the character details (Faces) are extremely well done when looked at in high res. It’s not up to the quality in EQ2 and it doesn’t have a big variety of choices, but it is most certainly within current industry standards.
I don’t think any game is going to truly push the envelope in terms of graphics until AoC launches next year. It’s extremely expensive and proven to be fruitless. (WoW launched with technically subpar graphics and became successful, so graphics are no longer considered the main selling point for an MMO).
There is opinion and there is objective criticism. Opinion is “I love the story of TR” or “I hate the story of TR”. Objectivity is “While the TR storyline is your standard issue science fiction, it does stand out from the majority of today’s MMOs that feature elves and wizards.”
Or let’s talk about the “moral” choice missions. Opinion is “these missions are useless and suck”. Objective criticism is “While these missions present interesting moral choices and dilemmas, there are far too few of them and the choices made bear no consequences on the in-game character beyond granting a different reward – which is trivial.”
Anyhow, I agree, TR doesn’t bring much innovation to the MMO genre. However, it brings more innovation than EQ2, WoW and LoTRO put together. And those are the 3 best reviewed and most popular MMO games of the past 5 years. In other words, those are the 3 games generally considered the best by the majority. So if you want to be objective, keep that in mind when critiquing the game.
Furthermore, the game is finished and polished. All game systems are working. There is no opinion involved in this statement, combat either works or doesn’t, CPs taking either works or doesn’t. And they work. All skills are working. Again, no opinion. They work. All zones are working. All quests are working. All areas are populated with quests, NPCs, items and storylines. Again no opinion on whether this is true. It is true. The path for you to experience the world from being recruit to discovering the mysteries of the eloh and defeating the bane is open and ready to be explored.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
I dont understand people who defend or attack games with alot energy.
Games are just products of ( more and more ) powerful companies who make profits of these. It's not a religion and its not about complex socio political points of views. Games are just freaking products thrown onto the global capitalistic market. <Mod edit>
Well, I guess I was wrong about you, but that seems to be par for the course around here There's just no reason to resort to name calling, especially on that level. Again, nobody has to agree or disagree, but personal attacks should be left off this and every other forum.
Yeah the game is pve oriented, and follows the traditional quest structure, but I am enjoying it for the sci-fi atmosphere and very fast pace. The world feels more alive than in other mmorpgs since bane drop all the time.
While it may not be revolutionary, its a solid mmo experience that cant really be called a wow-clone so it should provide a nice distraction for a time.
Comments
Like most MMO games, this one included.
Fast Paced, Faster if possible. There is only one way to have fun in this game and that is to turn off all the Quest Beginning and Finishing pointers. Otherwise it's a LOOK MOM another no Brainer.
Although it is a great game for beginners to get the idea there is more to a game than follow the little yellow arrows.
Turn em off and it will last a long time but otherwise it's to hard on the legs.
I must admit, I HATED this game when I played in Beta.
However, I decided to give it a chance and I am enjoying it so far.
I will only be subscribing at the end of my free month however, if they they sort out the overloaded EUR server.
Currently Playing Nothing...
And this sort of mindless puerile comment does nothing to address the failings of the industry. it is just the sort of reaction I expect from the fanboiz willing to waste their money on shallow, unfinished work.
Like I said, don't roll out the old excuse of 'but they all do this' and expect me to swallow it. It's a crap excuse, from lazy developers, foisted on an audience with low expectations
raise the bar, expect more for your money, and don't accept half-complete products
@abhaigh
Again you just say its shit. You want something better. Well, then tell the world what is better! For me you look like someone who sits bored before his computer and doesnt know what to do. You are angry at yourself because you are bored and so you write in forums that every game is crap. My advise to you: write your own game, Then you'll see how difficult it is. And if you succeed come back and write your ciriticsm again.
Man, this is why TR needs their own forums where only subscribers can post. The amount of bs in this thread is unreal. I think the vast majority of people actually playing the game really like it. I couldn't care less what some retard who doesn't even play thinks about "the industry".
Now see...you answered your own question. (well, except for including EQ in your list...that one doesn't belong)
That's exactly what some people want to see.... a game that doesn't follow the traditional class, level, PVE grind a ton of pointless fetch/kill quests like games of the past several years (WOW, LotRO, VG, COH/COV etc)
We want to be able to build cities...and tear other peoples cities down. We want the freedom to develop our characters along whatever lines we want (skill based vs class) and we're tired of being told our character isn't wanted in the group because we aren't the right spec or the right fit for it.
In fact, we want a fun, enriching solo game along with decent incentives to group in certain situations.
You're correct, much of this isn't new or innovative, but it seems to have been forgotten since the early days of UO and AC.
EQ actually started the madness, and its been rolling downhill ever since. (for those of us who don't favor PVE oriented MMO's).
TR was created by "Lord British"..... the man who "created" UO (I suspect other folks had more of hand in its actual success actually, but thats another debate) and UO had so many of these features. So naturally we expected him to bring us something more along the lines of an improved UO.... but instead we got.... TR as it is today.
We're disappointed is all. TR might be a fine game, once again for the PVE crowd..... but for the rest of us looking for more a world to play in....we're left out in the cold yet again.
See red text....exactly.
Notice: The views expressed in this post are solely those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the reviews of MMORPG.com or its management.
Neil Thompson
Staff Writer
MMORPG.com
I think your right with what you say, but the problem is also a matter of the worst of all sins: money.
Money causes many games to fail, even offline. Here are a few examples: Games get released earlier, unfinished, games are changed to suit the publisher's perception and themes and ideas are recycled in hope of imitating success.
Even if the developer has enough money for trying out new stuff, they will go to the old concepts, because they want to make even more money. A sad example is Westwood Studios: They did a lot of (for that time) innovative games, mainly CnC, and gained amazing success; Still they faded away! And why? Because after their success with CnC, they created just more CnC! There was not major advancement from CnC to CnC Red Alert 2 (still only one resource, still not able to place building far from each other, still two groups/nations opposing each other...)
(Please forgive me minor factual mistakes with CnC)
So if we get the money out (impossible) we could eliminate this barrier locking away the creativity of game designers. (For the guy talking about the education being the problem: Education teaches you to go after the money!)
Serazahr
-> Rise of the Infernal Age <- Is getting prepeared for Warcraft 4 (hopefully with innovative stuff.)
You're right, EQ shouldn't have been in that list. Not sure what I was thinking.
So, the real problem is that we need to change what we say when we talk about what we want. (I say 'we' because while I'm content to play the games that are out now for whatever length of time that they remain interesting to me is, I know that I won't really play a game again until it's a world). Instead of using the words 'new' and 'innovative', which are nothing but useless, superficial buzz words that do nothing to further the cause, we need to start declaring more openly that what we want is the things you've mentioned above.
I, too, long for a skill-based game that feels like a world, much like Dereth did in its early days.
So we, the ex-AC and UO players, those who have burned themselves out on the PvE grind of World of Warcraft, and the PvP fans who long for something more, all need to start saying more loudly that what we want is:
A virtual world with skill-based advancement.
Am I right?
--------
"Give a man a fire, and he is warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he is warm for the rest of his life."
in response to your question int he title. simple answer, "because the game is terrible". i could explain why, but i have done it before and dont want to waste my time writing it again.
The only thing that I know is that Im loving playing TR!! But...it might be coincidence but the worse bashing and trolling about this game are from players of Star Wars Galaxies and Neocron. They talk how bad that TR is and then they praise the joy of playing theyr loving games. Could it be that they are afraid of losing players?
@LordKyllan
What you describe is a mixture out of Lotro, Wow, GuildWars and perhaps some other MMO. But I would guess If you would see it, you would consider it old, because it's nothing new. Also, if you want to have a world with housing and so on, it has to fit into the back story and in Tabula Ras it just doesn't fit. It would make no sense at all to build in housing or city building into Tabula Rasa.
@jayheld90
Well I have read your history of entries. What you said as criticsm for Tabula Rasa could be said in two words: shit, expensive. Not very constructive, don't you think?
greetings
loonyalex
You don't know me, have no idea who I am or what my feelings are, don't diminish yourself by talking crap, tossing insults around, and generally playing the righteously indignant fanboi.
as for what is better? a complete, mature product that is released when, and only when, it is ready to be released.
TR might be complete and mature in 6 months, right now it is a shallow, unfinished product that resembles an MMO, and no matter how much you whine, cry, and complain about my POV on the game will either change its current status, or my opinons regarding it. in fact, all you can do by insulting me personally is make yourself look like an idiot
you know, it is usually better to keep quiet and have people wonder if you are a fool or not, than it is to speak up and confirm it for them.
I'm afraid your indulging in the ad hominem has confirmed your status
i just cant get tabula rasa to run well on any of my computers , they play the likes of hellgate london and most new games with ease . i ve also seen it played on other peoples systems they all have similar problems with it . i d love to see it do well but unless things improve i really could nt recomend the current product to anyone . as much as i d like to think otherwise this maybe another vanguard in the making .
You don't know me, have no idea who I am or what my feelings are, don't diminish yourself by talking crap, tossing insults around, and generally playing the righteously indignant fanboi.
as for what is better? a complete, mature product that is released when, and only when, it is ready to be released.
TR might be complete and mature in 6 months, right now it is a shallow, unfinished product that resembles an MMO, and no matter how much you whine, cry, and complain about my POV on the game will either change its current status, or my opinons regarding it. in fact, all you can do by insulting me personally is make yourself look like an idiot
you know, it is usually better to keep quiet and have people wonder if you are a fool or not, than it is to speak up and confirm it for them.
I'm afraid your indulging in the ad hominem has confirmed your status
Useless challenges?
Is it useless to think about how to do something better, if I or you have criticsm on something?
Is it useless to give reasons for its critics or opinion, when written in a forum?
I think not. i call it constructive criticsm.
For the record: Neither do I want to change your opinion nor do I defend the game. You may not like the game. Thats ok. But when you critisize something by saying that it's an unfinished product, i expect some reasons why. But I don't see any reasons for it in your statements in this thread.
I may be a fool. And I may be a fanboy. So what? But you won't see me bashing a product without giving reasons and ideas how to make it better.
That is one of the most selfish things I've ever read. 'Terrible' is subjective -- no, don't argue about it. It is.
Like I said earlier; not wanting others to get the chance to enjoy something because you happen not to enjoy it is one of the symptoms of a much larger social disease.
Read my post history, I've gone into both why it fails and how to improve it at length, I'm not about to repost that information simply because you are too lazy to look for it
I'm sure there are fansites with friendlier discussions going on.... no reason to distress yourself over the debates/flames going on here....
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
how about you take this advice - try defending the game instead of attacking its critics with ad hominem attacks and useless challenges?You don't know me, have no idea who I am or what my feelings are, don't diminish yourself by talking crap, tossing insults around, and generally playing the righteously indignant fanboi.
as for what is better? a complete, mature product that is released when, and only when, it is ready to be released.
TR might be complete and mature in 6 months, right now it is a shallow, unfinished product that resembles an MMO, and no matter how much you whine, cry, and complain about my POV on the game will either change its current status, or my opinons regarding it. in fact, all you can do by insulting me personally is make yourself look like an idiot
you know, it is usually better to keep quiet and have people wonder if you are a fool or not, than it is to speak up and confirm it for them.
I'm afraid your indulging in the ad hominem has confirmed your status
You confuse the heck out of me Abhaigh.
In some of your posts you state your total dislike for the game which nobody could or would want to argue with, I mean... you obviously were passionate about the game at one point and it truly must have let you down. I don't think anybody here has any interest in challenging your feelings on the game ( at least I don't.) I mean, I felt the same way about a game you love, bought the game, finished the PvE inside of 2 weeks, found the PvP a total let down and couldn't bring myself to log in after 3 weeks of play, even for free. I bought expansion after expansion while praying it would get better and it never did, but that is just my opinion, like yours on TR. I could sit here and list all of my reasons for not liking that other game, but why? I am content in accepting that it simply wasn't for me and letting those who love it, play it and enjoy it.
But then, I also see you directly attack anyone buying this game or enjoying it. I just found a dozen quotes in your history that are direct attacks on the playerbase and those enjoying the game. It seems in your opinion, anyone who doesn't agree with you is "dumb" or "has more sense than money" etc...
I'm just curious, sincerely, why it is that you can be passionate about one game and yet knock those who are passionate about another, simply because you disagree with them? Obviously people are different and will like different things, thankfully, or this world would get stale very quickly, wouldn;t you agree?
Like I said, I am just confused... especially after reading your post here in this thread, as I see you have attacked people without thinking twice about it for months and even gone as far to state how worth it would be to pay 50 bucks to watch the russians murder Richard Garriott.
You're right, EQ shouldn't have been in that list. Not sure what I was thinking.
So, the real problem is that we need to change what we say when we talk about what we want. (I say 'we' because while I'm content to play the games that are out now for whatever length of time that they remain interesting to me is, I know that I won't really play a game again until it's a world). Instead of using the words 'new' and 'innovative', which are nothing but useless, superficial buzz words that do nothing to further the cause, we need to start declaring more openly that what we want is the things you've mentioned above.
I, too, long for a skill-based game that feels like a world, much like Dereth did in its early days.
So we, the ex-AC and UO players, those who have burned themselves out on the PvE grind of World of Warcraft, and the PvP fans who long for something more, all need to start saying more loudly that what we want is:
A virtual world with skill-based advancement.
Am I right?
I agree completely. Though just for the sake of the MMORPG staffer that saw fit to highlight one word of my original post I guess I must over-emphasize the fact that this is what "some" people want from their games..... (but I was quite careful not to use "all", or "many" or "a great majority")
And although I never played AC/UO I did start my career in MMO's on Lineage 1/2, DAOC and Shadowbane, and the key ingredient for me there was the ability to affect the game world with my PVP actions. Only since I started playing EVE did I come to appreciate the beauty of a virtual world and skill based advancement. (now I don't have to keep re-rolling those damn alts)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"Why do some of you want this game to fail so badly?"
Simply,
If people dont buy crap games developers will try making better ones.
'Crap' is relative, deal with it.
Kind of the same reason I haven't bought a Chevy since I started driving 20 years ago. Thankfully there's a large portion of the world that disagrees with me
Keeps things interesting!
The game companies are making what people want. How do they know that it is what people want? Because that is what people buy. People vote with their dollars.
Games with depth, innovation and all the other stuff that the trolls here keep mentioning with eternal reverence have been launched. These games (to name a few) were:
Anarchy Online
EVE Online
Star Wars Galaxies
Saga of Ryzom
And what did people do? NOT buy them. This was the world’s way of saying “we do not want these kinds of games, give us something else!”. So there came WoW and EQ2 and LoTRO feature pretty graphics, simple gameplay and complete and utter lack of innovation or artistic vision. And what did people say? They said “Yes! This is what we want! Here is our money!”
So the next time you have 50 million dollars, throw it my way and I’ll be glad to make you a game with innovation and artistic vision that nobody is going to buy. Seriously, I have pages full of plans and details on the most sophisticated and involving MMO ever created. It would meet all the wishes listed in this thread. And it would fail utterly because 10,000 or even 20,000 accounts of dedicated and smart players that would actually appreciate it would never be able to sustain it.
This thread is so full of BS that it isn’t even funny.
Talk about criticism and trolling? Saying that “TR has average graphics on par with existing MMOs but does not push the boundary in this regard” would be objective criticism. Saying that it has 8-year-old graphics is exaggeration, trolling and BS. After being out for more than 3 years, EQ2 still has the best quality graphics in the genre. NO ONE has pushed the boundary including TR. TR’s graphics are better than a lot of releases (remember Vanguard’s terrible wooden animations and 5 hairstyle choice for the entire race?) and worse than possibly two – EQ2 and LoTRO, although I’d say TR is on par with LoTRO, just LoTRO has better art direction. Anyhow, that is objective criticism. Comparing TR with AO is retarted. I played AO for more than 3 years and logged into it very recently, I’ll post a screenie or two for comparison when I get home if I can find em. TR has some of the most fluid and realistic animations I’ve seen in an MMO and the character details (Faces) are extremely well done when looked at in high res. It’s not up to the quality in EQ2 and it doesn’t have a big variety of choices, but it is most certainly within current industry standards.
I don’t think any game is going to truly push the envelope in terms of graphics until AoC launches next year. It’s extremely expensive and proven to be fruitless. (WoW launched with technically subpar graphics and became successful, so graphics are no longer considered the main selling point for an MMO).
There is opinion and there is objective criticism. Opinion is “I love the story of TR” or “I hate the story of TR”. Objectivity is “While the TR storyline is your standard issue science fiction, it does stand out from the majority of today’s MMOs that feature elves and wizards.”
Or let’s talk about the “moral” choice missions. Opinion is “these missions are useless and suck”. Objective criticism is “While these missions present interesting moral choices and dilemmas, there are far too few of them and the choices made bear no consequences on the in-game character beyond granting a different reward – which is trivial.”
Anyhow, I agree, TR doesn’t bring much innovation to the MMO genre. However, it brings more innovation than EQ2, WoW and LoTRO put together. And those are the 3 best reviewed and most popular MMO games of the past 5 years. In other words, those are the 3 games generally considered the best by the majority. So if you want to be objective, keep that in mind when critiquing the game.
Furthermore, the game is finished and polished. All game systems are working. There is no opinion involved in this statement, combat either works or doesn’t, CPs taking either works or doesn’t. And they work. All skills are working. Again, no opinion. They work. All zones are working. All quests are working. All areas are populated with quests, NPCs, items and storylines. Again no opinion on whether this is true. It is true. The path for you to experience the world from being recruit to discovering the mysteries of the eloh and defeating the bane is open and ready to be explored.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
I dont understand people who defend or attack games with alot energy.
Games are just products of ( more and more ) powerful companies who make profits of these.
It's not a religion and its not about complex socio political points of views.
Games are just freaking products thrown onto the global capitalistic market.
<Mod edit>
Well, I guess I was wrong about you, but that seems to be par for the course around hereThere's just no reason to resort to name calling, especially on that level.
Again, nobody has to agree or disagree, but personal attacks should be left off this and every other forum.
Yeah the game is pve oriented, and follows the traditional quest structure, but I am enjoying it for the sci-fi atmosphere and very fast pace. The world feels more alive than in other mmorpgs since bane drop all the time.
While it may not be revolutionary, its a solid mmo experience that cant really be called a wow-clone so it should provide a nice distraction for a time.