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Subscription Questions Should I Subscribe ??
summitus
Member UncommonPosts: 1,414
Hey everyone,just thought I would try and get a debate going over the subsrciption issue for Hellgate. I'm really liking this game alot and I paid 35 English pounds for it,but I'm having real problems coming to terms with the subscription problem. Already I'm seeing things in the game which are subscriber only and having paid 35 quid ( about 70 US dollars I think ) I'm feeling a little ripped off. Somehow I feel like a second class customer.My main point is even a normal MMO when you buy the box at retail you get the game and a free months Subscription so should'nt Hellgate at least offer the same ?. Also there is no clear information on when and how often you would be getting new content if you subscribe and no Euro forums,if I was going to subcribe there would certainly have to be a Euro forum to start with. As I said I love the game but subscibing to it is something I'm just not sure about,I would love to hear everyones views on this and how many peeps are subscribed or thinking of subscribing.
Comments
I think it's a cynical rip off.
I'll resub WoW I think.
The world is full of suckers, someone is bound to have subbed. Who will be first to admit it?
Even Guild Wars which provides the game with no fee charges for new characters, new content, etc in the way of expansions.
Hellgate is the same way. You can play the entire game without ever having to pay a single subscription fee. If you want hardcore mode, extra storage slots and access to new subscriber only content then you pay a fee. Just like you would pay for extra content by paying a normal subscription fee or by purchasing expansions. Heck some MMOs charge more on top of the regular subscription fee for extra features.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
No because the other MMO's have more content to start with.
Beacuase we have seen not one single content update so far, so currently you would be buying nothing more than a promise.
And because I've never paid a subscription for a cintent update ever. I pay for the Server I play the game on, and inthe case of Hellgate, it's a very small inexpensive server no more epxnesive than the one quake wars hosts it's server browser on.
At £7 an expansion, for this content patch to be good value it would have to add 25% of the total of the original game content each month.
Never going to happen. It's just a rip off for the thicko's and the spunk to soon brigade.
Wait six months and get 6 months worth and a load of bug fixes for £7.
Honeslty a Stonehenge map. How long is that going to take you to explore. 2 minutes? 3?. I can wait for that.
I wouldn't pay these guys. They released buggy crap, their patches are obviously untested (how else do you miss invisible teammates) and their subscribers are getting billed $10 EVERY SINGLE DAY.
One guy on the official forum is out over $250 in overdraft charges due to the dailing billing.
And the company has responded to NOTHING on the official forum. Save your money, or better yet, don't even buy the game. it is a ripoff.
What type of "more" content are you talking about. Like a bigger world, or more useless "kill X mobs" quests?
And you're expecting a content update after...a weeks release? And actually a few days ago there was a pretty big update, maybe not with extra features, but a lot bug fixes, and some extra stuff for subscribers.
You have to realize this is a gaming BUSINESS. They need to make money somehow..and just selling game boxes won't cut it anymore if they want to stay competitive with other big box games. Why do you think GW is pumping out expansions after expansions?
And if you enjoy the game enough, I believe buying a "promise" for a mere $10 a month is worth it.
-Vin
i wouldnt Sub , yet. its just not worth it. this imo is not a typical p2p mmo and really shouldnt try to use the same model. I think they should sell content updates similiar to SOE/EQ2;s adveture packs. Maybe Make 1 Big adventure pack with content,upgrades etc every 3 months and sell them for 4.99 or something.
Watch your thoughts; they become words.
Watch your words; they become actions.
Watch your actions; they become habits.
Watch your habits; they become character.
Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.
Lao-Tze
What type of "more" content are you talking about. Like a bigger world, or more useless "kill X mobs" quests?
And you're expecting a content update after...a weeks release? And actually a few days ago there was a pretty big update, maybe not with extra features, but a lot bug fixes, and some extra stuff for subscribers.
You have to realize this is a gaming BUSINESS. They need to make money somehow..and just selling game boxes won't cut it anymore if they want to stay competitive with other big box games. Why do you think GW is pumping out expansions after expansions?
And if you enjoy the game enough, I believe buying a "promise" for a mere $10 a month is worth it.
-Vin
I'm not expecting any content update. I might be intrested in an expansion pack in a years time. And yes a bigger world and more quests would be the kind of thing I will be looking for.
Personally I don't believe in buying promises, I'm willing to make promises too though. I promise to buy an expansion pack if you make one worth the money. I promise you I have the money, if you want to show me the goods.
Sooner or later they will have a free trial. They will need to. My guess is it will be sooner.
I think people would be sensible to wait for more peer reviews on the subscritption service rather than just buy them on a promise.
I bought the game "on promise". Pre-ordered it. I won't do that for another Flagship product. They rode their Diablo cred, and from now one, all their cred is based on this game alone.
If you know it's what you want, or you think it's worthg the risk, go ahead and sub. It's not my decision to make for you. I can only really share with you how I feel about it.
I realise that gaming is a buisiness, and I also realise that Guild wars is pumping out expansions. I too realise that Guild Wars is doing so for a reasonable price.
You will get a hell of a lot more from a Guild Wars expansion than you will from 3 of Hellgate's monthly updates. 100's of times as much and all for the same price.
Hellgate will never make as much money as Guild Wars, not even with it's subscriptions and it's ingame advertising. It won't because it is poor value compared to Guild Wars and the other titles on the market. You see in business it is wise to undercut your competition, not charge more than them for less.
For the record the "big update a few days ago" removed content from the non subscription game and added it to the subscritption service. Quests and items etc. Not so much adding content as trying to make people pay more for the same content.
This company has rip off written all over it. It will need some pretty serious peer reviews to outweigh the impression it has made thus far.
FYI,
I was double charged for my subscription this month. I called them, they were prompt and quickly saw that there was an issue and are working on refunding me for the additional 9.99
if you were considering subscribing, let me just suggest giving it time because there seem to be some issues with it currently. Some of the people who bought the founders for $150 were double charged as well.
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
Been playing a marksman and a guardian to lvl19 since release. Its a fun game sure, but the subscription fee kinda turn me off, no reason to pay pr month for such basic features cmon. The events they keep babbling about is really boring...the launch event was good cause it made me realise that im never going to pay monthly fees for something stupid like that. Good game though...
I think a lot of people will take the "wait and see" approach. It really doesn't make much sense to pay a monthly fee now for content that hasn't been released yet.
If the hardcore modes and other items they are offering now to subscribers are desirable to some people, they should subscribe. It's just not enough for me yet.
If they crank out some cool additional content over the upcoming months I'll consider it.
I'm a subscriber and I would say to wait on the subscription right now. Even though the game itself IMO is well worth the cost the subscription isn't. Other than creating your own guild or being an officer and running events the non-subscriber receives the same benefits. The game is fun enough for non-subscribers.
Right now the sub isnt worth it, its only 1 week old and they only released annoying holiday stuff. There's barely any storage space and they spam your inventory with junk.
The December content update is around 300 mb and every three months they will release a content patch. I believe people are waiting to see whats released in the December update.
Theres zero reason to sub right now.
How they can think a few pretty minor holiday quests and the promise of extra storage space is worth a fee comparable to traditional MMOs is mind boggling.
If they release plenty of pvp content,lots of new maps and quests etc then id consider it,but for now ill put my £ elsewhere thansk very much.
It seems like they never originally planned to have a sub system,and that its been tacked on afterwards to rake in some cash. EA perhaps?
when they start implementing content properly,PVP arenas and FFA maps,new dungeon maps,new quest hubs and areas,new classes (and new skills for exsisting),new crafting recipes = yeah ill sub for sure.
Its hard to believe the content for subs (ie: hardcore, elite mode, etc..) is EXTRA in any way. Its obviously just scraped off the non-subs version and served cold to subs. I mean they barely got the game working and you think they had time to make extra stuff? give me a break. And if they actually did bother making extra stuff while the games in the horrible shape its in then they are just ripping off the non-subs/subs anyways.
Of course you fanboys can continue to say how great they are but at least look at it logically please...
Just Flagship. I've been following this game on their forums for a couple of years now. They just went ballistic for subscription fee's after they saw what happened with WoW.
Uhm, without casting a vote to one side of this argument or another for myself, I did want to weigh in with a couple of thoughts. I have seen SOOO much crying, whincing, bitching, blah blah about this game having a subscription OPTION attached to it. Okay, so subbing is not for everyone. Don't. Some people find the added options as worth it, great, sub. Some people hate the game and think it is stupid for people to even be playing. Great, don't play. All of that said, I have seen MANY games that were so simplistic and base that did not have any option for sub or not. If you wanted to play, you had to pay. Pretty simple. Though there have been many, I will give two examples that people can relate to rather easily. Dungeons and Drgons Online (DDO) and World of Warcraft (WoW) are my two of choice. You want to play, you pay a fee. Everyone plays at their own paces at these games, and for their own reasons. I for one was able to max out multiple characters in DDO within the first month of its release. All dungeons "Beaten" Characters maxed, and absolutely no equipment drops that were any form of upgrade. World of Warcraft took a few weeks longer, but same concept. No pay, no play of any form. Yet within a couple months time, I found myself at the "End" of the game. Sure, there were still everyones joy of joys, grinding endless raids with potential idiots in hops of having a shot at rolling for one of the couple drops so that I could come back and repeat that same raid, or go roll a new character and have it at the same stage in a matter of weeks. Yeah, there were a few more options, and both games have added content since then (Including level max increases that were equally as easy to obtain. No new challenge, only new institution of the redundancy. But that is what MMO's in general atre, so I am not going to degenerate into complaining about grinds in games) At any rate, the point is this. No, subbing is not for everyone. Without diving into the "Everyone should sub" or "Nobody should sub and this game should go to hell" arguing match, I think perhaps people should give it up. Have your opinion, but be a bit more impartial. Dozens of other games out on the market are just as easy, or easier. Those games have not even given the option of free playable content. If you REALLY want to cry about having to pay a sub fee to enjoy a game, perhaps your vehemence should be redirected at a game that does not even offer a free to play option.
Definition of a fanboy: Anyone who does not feel exactly the way you do about a game, and therefore their opinion is obviously flawed. They only enjoy a game because they have been brainwashed by a company. Obviously since they do not agree with you they are wrong. Not simply an individual with their own likes and dislikes.
I too finished WoW quickly.
The difference between paying for WoW and paying for this, is that WoW provides value for money.
The server that hosts your game of WoW, is a very expensive machine. It uses a lot of expensive bandwidth too.
Up until MMO's I've always hosted my own servers. Paid for them myself and paid for the bandwith. My 32 player Ghost Recon server cost me £300 a month to keep running. Of course my friends would all chip in, (though many more would not, or would say they would, but on payday, strangely fail to show up).
So playing MMO's was actualy cheaper. Not only could I have access to a vastly superior peice of equipment, capable of hosting thousands not just 32, but because everyone has to pay their own cut to get access, I didn't have to pay anyone elses share anymore. Mymonthly gaming bill was reduced from £300 to £10. So it wasn't really a bitter pill to swallow.
I still host my own servers for other games. The one thing doing this for the past deacde has taught me, is the value of the equipment and the bandwidth.
So I have an insight when I pay for WoW, where the money is going and how much it costs to provide that service.
Hellgate however isn't using it's own bandwidth to host the game any moe than Guild Wars is, or Diablo was. once inside an instance, your computer is hosting. You are providing all the hardware and paying for all the bandwidth.
The difference between paying for WoW and paying for Hellgate os not that I enjoy WoW more, it's that WoW's service costs lots to provide, and Hellgate's doesn't cost fudge all. Blizzard are charging my for the rental of some very exotic computer systems, and Flagship are charging me to use my own.
And then spamming me with adverts. It's just a rip off. The know that most people don't know what servers cost, and they know that a lot of people are willing to pay £10 a month to play other RPG's. They aren't charging you because their service costs that to provide. They are charging you because they think you are dumb enough to pay it.
The subscription starts becoming less of an option when they remove currently available free content such as quest and items, and flag them as "subscriber features". Pretty much better plan on the "option" getting less and less every time they see the money intake drop. And trust me, they are not going to retain enough people with subscriptions to make the multi-player part profitable, or even sustainable. And considering how many are currently obtaining the game through "alternative" channels, they're likely not getting a big return on the offline game, either.
They will make the bulk of their money on retail box sales. Just as Blizzard does and every other games producer does. Piracy or no Piracy boxes on shelves in western economies brings home the bacon.
This game has been released in time for Christmas. It will make them money.
Considering the subscription problem thread was over 26 pages long before it was locked. (According to the GM because of account info being posted)
The new thread is over 33 pages this morning of complaints ranging from.
1. EU customers signed up on US and can't get switched to EU.
2. Monthly charges recharging daily for 4 days now.
3. People signed up for founders 149$ and accounts still not showing paid.
4. People signed up for founders 149$ and getting hit with monthly charges.
5. People subscribed and their accounts still not showing that they are.
6. People getting e-mail saying they are subscribed yet no charges on credit cards.
7. People subscribed and charged multiple times, yet the help desk telling them they havn't been charged because their cards are expired???
8. THEN theres the people who are trying to subscribe and the site refuses to process their credit cards, even though the correct info is entered. One poster tried 3# different cards.
9. Support tickets entered and waiting 24-48hrs and when you finally get a reply...it tells you the answer to your question is some FLIMSY FAQ # that only says things like, Hellgate only takes VISA/Mastercard/Amex. Even though you used a VISA card.
10. Not to mention the complaints of the help desk being based in India and people unable to understand the help desk personal NOR even the Supervisors.
I'm one of the tried to subscribe yet can't, but no way am I gonna try again until it's totally fixed.
4 days now and the only explainations posted by the company is..."A update to all your problems should be posted soon."
Well its seems to to me after reading most of your posts guys that Subscription is something I'm going to put on the back burner for awhile, some of your posts have been very interesting indeed. This system they have in place at the moment is most certainly extremely flawed and its also very worrying that GM's are already closing threads on the US forums ( well at least they have a forum I suppose ). All in all there seems to be a yet again from a company a total disregard and understanding of what a customers actually are and you only have to look at SOE to see what that gets you, Maybe Flagship should rethink the way they are doing things...... that all said it still is a great game but a great game with little or no regard or understanding of their customers is only going to fail,I sincerly hope it does'nt though thanks again for your great feedback guys
Listen to this guy, he speaks the truth. All threads on the Hellgate site are being deleted if they contain any of the above information.
There has not been any appologies, no acceptance of responsibility, at this point they need to suspend the entire subscription process until this is resolved but thats not happening
also, as I mentioned previously I was also double charged for the month.
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
I think this is disgusting.
Are our pockets now coffers for anyone to do the picking? What's next, I pick up a copy of Half-Life 4 and I have to pay extra cash to use the gravity gun?
Seeing the "No _____" signs pasted over items does not in any way make me want that item when weighed against my set of morals and standards in life.
I was actually enjoying this game until todays downtime, when I came here to read up. Now I feel like my bicycle just got stolen and I can't even enjoy the baseball game.
There is no information about a subscription required to access base game features on the box. It states that you must create a user name and register your copy, nothing more. The words "cost, money, pay" do not appear.
We don't pay for guidwars, we shouldnt for this. Dungeon Runners was free to download, so having subscription requirements is understandable. But not after I passed off $55.
If they only knew all the work I had to do to get $10.
if you pay for a subscription for this game, you can run around with the word "pwn" on your forehead, because you fell for the ruse.
Maybe if they add enough content it might be worth it, but at this point in time you are just being gouged for nothing.
I subscribed and have had no problems with billing. Not to say that other's haven't, but so far, so good for me.
_________________________________
JonMichael
Currently: AION, an MMO Beta under NDA
Played: WAR, LOTRO, Hellgate: London, CoX, GW, SotNW, DAOC, EQ2, SWG, WoW, AO, Horizons, Second Life, There, TSO
Beta'd: There, Second Life, EQ2, DAOC:LotM, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, Gods and Heroes, Hellgate: London, Requiem:Bloodymare, AoC, WAR, DDO, Fallen Earth