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Will WAR be fairplay ?
jimmy123
Member UncommonPosts: 314
Just a quick post, whats bothering me is what happens if the Alliance out number the Destruction or vice verser, is there anyway of balancing out the numbers on the servers u play on.
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I know for the PVP Scenario areas they have NPC's to balance out the numbers on your team .. not sure about over all server.
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
J123,
They have not discussed HOW they will rectify population imbalances other then to say that in some circumstances the Dogs of War will step up for the low pop side.
I think they are going to wait and see which races are shunned and which are over played and probably do a "+ to hit, exp, loot" for the undermanned realms a "- to hit, exp, loot" for over manned.
That's my guess for now.
Always change your signature.
That is one of a couple problems that this game will face. With it's very interesting design come some problems, mainly due to balancing. In my opinion, the best thing the devs can do is equally promote both sides. Destruction is obviously more followed right now but it also has a LOT less female-capable classes and that will probably make a big difference when the casuals roll on in.
lol you said alliance
Playing: Everthing
Played: DAoC,AC2,EvE,SWG,WAR,MXO,CoX,EQ2,L2,LOTRO,SB,UO,WoW.
I have played every MMO that has ever come out.
heh heh heh hehhhh
Short answer is no. Long answer, there is no way to balance hard coded factions without making them unplayable (which cuases more problems than it ever solves) Mythic will give players incentives to roll underpopulated realms but if everyone wants to roll a witch elf because she got boobs, then it won't matter.
In the end, playing on a lower populated side just means you have more people to kill
There is no alliance in war, (i think your referring to warcraft online) In WAR it's order vs destruction.
"Don't hold breath about another KOTOR game coming from Bioware" - Chris Preistly
"Bioware is more intrested in pursueing development of it's own Intellectual properties"
- James Henly
i HIGHLY doubt mythic will ever implement a "- to hit" for over populated careers cause that would piss a lot of fans off. a "+hit to the underplayed careers is fine" but the -hit thing will be interpreted as a direct attempt to gimp a certain career which could make or break a persons sub. which in turn would make mythic lose money.
If Alliance outnumbers Destruction on the WAR servers we will be in deep, DEEP sh*t.
Hopefully, Mythic will NOT allow cross-game character transfers between WoW and WAR.
This is actually too horrible to contemplate.
If, on the other hand, Order outnumbers Destruction or vice versa, then ... well ... that won't be so bad.
But honestly, let's keep both Alliance and Horde OUT of WAR!
I mean, once you start down that slippery slope of letting WoW characters in, then you got the EQ2 guys who will want to transfer in, then maybe SWG refugees, and, who knows, maybe EVE Online spaceships. That's just nuts!
No, I say. Let's stop this now! ONLY Warhammer: Age of Reckoning characters allowed on WAR servers.
Sorry.
I have to put my foot down about this once and for all!
~ Ancient Membership ~
I think population imbalances in WAR can be fought by playing smarter and making good tactical decisions.
For example, I would fully expect numbers to win in an open world pvp conflict where there are no limitations. But in the instanced scenarios, that advantage isn't quite such a big deal. So it could be argued that intelligently focusing on the types of pvp encounters you can win and not throwing away those points to encounters you have no chance on, the war can swing in your favor.
Of course, I love playing the underdog, so in a way im sort of hoping for a little population imbalance.
One of the reassuring things we hear from Mythic is the fact that they admit it is impossible to balance server populations.
Knowing this they've talked about some of the mechanisms to try to minimize the problems from it. One of the things they mentioned was offering benefits for logging onto low pop sides.
Also I think the entire idea of the 3 Realm/Battle fronts is a fundamental way of addressing it. Even if one side has numerical superiority they won't be able to control all three Battle fronts, it will be up to the low pop side to know which front is weakest and focus there.
Just like DAoC in the 3-way RvR battles, the populations will change based on content updates, buffs, nerfs, etc. People will switch sides particularly in WAR between Order and Chaos since the classes on the opposing side aren't just doppelgangers of each other (cough cough WoW cough cough).
Over time the popularity and effectiveness of all the classes will change. For example, when World of Warcraft was in its infancy, Warlocks were the laughingstock of the game. Warlocks were considered free HKs (honorable kills) since they were so weak. Nowadays many people complain about them being overpowered.
Over time the balances will shift back and forth so as far as "fair play" is concerned it's important to keep the big picture in mind. At least for the first 6-8 months I'm not going to be terribly concerned with the Order v Destruction ratios. I'll probably be too busy exploring the new game world and learning new classes.
With almost a half million people wanting to beta test, i'm sure there will be plenty of feedback to monitor in order to help achieve a relatively close balance.
With the ability of elite groups so marginalized compared to Daoc.It could just come down to a numbers game.Which is prolly why it was called boring and is delayed.
I don't see how it is that marginalized
a group of people who play together a lot (and use voice com) is going to beat a pick up group even in a game where everyone hits with a stick for 1 point of damage and has the same hp.
It's just not as easy as it was in daoc. Daoc's run in at speed 6 while mashign your instant aoe cc button then ither pbaoe all or assist train 1 by 1, which was a guaranteed win against most pick up groups and an easy rp farming off of a zerg. It won't be like that in war, where a group can stop a zerg because the zerg is full of people who don't rvr often, don't have purge, and telling them to spread out on inc is a waste of time.
But given the number of other options you have in a group, from easy things like assisting (how many people in, say wow, assist in bg? lol) to healers healing and not lawl dps'ing because it's war! to tanks using their abilities to protect everyone instead of pretending they are light tanks and removing all the defensive abilities from their bars. To morale abilities (and how those work in a group)
All in all, a good group should still be able to take 2-3 average pick up groups. It's just they will actually have to fight them and not insta cc->assist-> win like it was and still is in daoc. Which is fine though
it will be more fun for pick up groups and should be more fun for gank groups 
Well thanks for saving me all the typing.Basically what you are saying is that half-arse disorganized players will do much better in WAR then they did in DAoC.
Which makes a lot of senseonce you consider that disorganized players make up the majority. Combined with the fact organized players still get to farm everyone... where is the problem? =p Organized players complaining that it takes them more than pushing insta aoe cc to win vs a pick up group? =p
There are 3 way RVR in WAR?
Do we really want to carry over the gank squads of DAoC into WAR? Make the battles longer and more even. Getting the jump on another group in DAoC meant victory 90+% of the time due to CC and focus fire. I love RvR, but that stuff is just lame.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR
Playing: WAR
Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
If it is so easy to push a button and win,then the fodder could just spam buttons and auto win.But when you run a crap group(s) who 50% aren't able to figure out teamspeak/vent,move like a turtle,have 1 healer and it's there 85 year old grandma or baby sister.Of course you are gonna get owned.Crap groups/players always get owned online.
But in DAoC the underpopulated realms attracted players who actually wanted a challange of fighting 3 to 1 or more.If you go with the parity model,then all I can invision if 2 zergs forming up for an hour,colliding,dieing,respawn,repeat.There will be little incentive for the experienced players to get zerged down all day long,let alone even play.So I see issues with population balancing,and the plethora of nerfs to control it.Obviously EA see's something wrong with the gameplay model,and is moving more in the direction of DAoC it seems.
I would agree that it was overly hard to form effective groups in Daoc,that needs to be addressed.I don't like waiting an hour or longer to find viable players any more than a zerg likes to take 45 minutes to regroup after a wipe.
Why even worry at this point,I don't expect this thing to role out for a year from now anyway's.
So you've pretty much convinced yourself it's going to be all zerg all the time? There will never be other objectives during a fight? The entire game is going to revolve around RvR and you're convinced that they are so stupid, they are going to make elite groups impotent? I'm not sure what consoling you are looking for, but I have a little faith in Mythic to not make monumental mistakes like that.
EDIT: I agree, why worry about it now.
EDIT 2: BTW, there better be zergs or this game is going to fail. The gank crews can't finance or populate this game the way it needs to be. If there isn't massive battles with lots of people, then it's dead before it starts. So, if they were to cater to one group, I would hope it's the zerg.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR
Playing: WAR
Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
Go back to WoW please... there is no Alliance and Destruction in WAR,only Order and Chaos... zomg!
Go back to WoW please... there is no Alliance and Destruction in WAR,only Order and Chaos... zomg!
Give the guy a break. WAR needs lots of people. Lots of WOW's people. Welcome anyone that's even halfway interested.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR
Playing: WAR
Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
It's hard for pick up group to push a button to win because most of the time they don't have the core classes to make a playable group (too many classes in daoc, only one primary healer when a group needs 2, no one wants to play said healer classes) also, a gank group is most likely to spread out on inc, demezz, and have purge up, so even if a pick up group manages to land cc first, most of the time they'd still get rolled due to group make up.
Anyway, as far as mythic is concerned, it's much better to appeal to casual players than it is to uber gank group players. casual players represent much higher population, and gank group players will still kill every pick up group no matter what mythic does.
You are correct that a lot of good pvp'ers rerolled on low population realms, though not because they wanted to help with population lol
just makes sense to roll mids or hibs so you can farm alb zerg with an insta aoe cc button 
Oh, the good ol times of no cc imunity and mids chain spaming aoe stun aoe mezz over and over =p then telling albs they need to get some skills and stop whining 
I expect people will reroll to underpopulated faction in war as well, not because they want to even out the population, but because it's easier to farm people if you are facing overpopulated realm (less people on your side who want to kill, more people on opposite side to kill 
)
Well with the experience they should have from DAoC... they probably have some ideas.
However, as many have said you can't really balance it numbers wise. Most anything you could do (if one side is way over populated) would most likely lose you customers. Say you made it so people were forced to roll on the other side. Well if you only bought WAR to play with a friend and now you can't... etc etc
DAoC... Well when they opened classic servers I rolled a Hib on Gareth. I had always played Albion from launch and I wanted a change. EVERY person I knew claimed they were going to roll MId (now you can take from that what you want).
Anyway so I rolled a hib and used the name of my Infiltrator. I was in the mid 30's on the second day the server was up. Suddenly I get a tell and all those people who said they'd roll mid had gone hib.
At that point I was going to delete and go mid or alb but didn't.
Anyway to make a long story short.
I remember when it got to the point that hib was rolling a 100 to 300 person zerg. I'm sure the lag wave was enough to kill most enemies. Sure sometimes they got mass farmed and I'm sure some oil dumpers etc made some pretty crazy numbers.
However.. on average nobody stood a chance (not always .. but it was a very unbalanced thing numbers wise).
So yes.. hopefully they have learned from that. As I'm sure if someone faced that in a new to the market game.. their joy level would degrade quickly.
Maybe a not so insignificant boost to XP/RP/Dmg for the underpopulated side.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR
Playing: WAR
Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online