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CapnSwallowsCapnSwallows Member Posts: 47
in The Chronicles of Spellborn

I had a question. The combat system is great, but the PvP is the problem. I am a pvp person, if there isn't good pvp, I might as well play oblivion.  AoC  is going to have a active huge battleground with battle keeps that players can build and customize huge fortresses, and then you can have massive siege battles,(and yes,they have released a video  that show off a siege battle,it is very nice)  And although it is perhaps not to par with this games combat system , it has a good one at least. To boot it is MEANT to be a mature game,please save the immature game jokes for some where else. Anyways, back to the point, please describe the PvP, or is it a basic, like WoW or EQ2?

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Comments

  • DT-DyneDT-Dyne Member UncommonPosts: 38

    The PvP combat won't resemble a traditional MMORPG like WoW or  EQ2 but more of a MMOFPS. Players don't hit a single but and automatically begin swinging when they come in range but instead must manually swing. The combat system is similar to Savage  http://www.s2games.com/savage/, Rakion http://rakion.softnyx.net/, The Specialist http://www.specialistsmod.net/, and numerous other titles. Keep in mind the only similarity between TCoS and these games that I am comparing is the combat.

    Another thread links a PvP battle (http://www.tcos.com/downloads/xfer/tcos_dev_diary-combat_stress_test.wmv ) from TCoS and it shows the fighting from a spectator's position and from a player's point of view. If you're a heavy PvPer than you will easily be able to answer your own question after watching the video.

  • KelnnayKelnnay Member Posts: 23

    You can read the Q&A from MMORPG at this subject.

  • Size-TwelveSize-Twelve Member UncommonPosts: 478

    To make it easy on you man, I'm just going to tell it like it is. It's not going to be like AoC.

    It's more similar to WoW in that regard, except there will be no strict PvP server, and the PvP zones they do have are FFA PvP zones. There is also an Arena where ladder tournaments will take place, and this is how the game stands right now.

    Allow me to say though, I've been around MMO's a long while - both games are going to release with problems. AoC might have alot of features, but I think their netcode is a little shaky, and I'm not sure their combat is all it's cracked up to be because of it. I've seen lots of games promise lots of cool features and have, in the end, hurt themselves by releasing a buggy product trying to fit them all in.

    On the other hand Spellborn appears to be running like a top, performance wise, based on some beta leaks, and some in-game videos. Their publisher has been very patient, and allowed them plenty of time to make sure the bugs are ironed out. This game is going to be a runner.

    The flip-side though, is that content wise they seem not to be as concerned with PvP features. They seem happy with the somewhat limited PvP they have right now, and instead want to implement further features after release.

    So, what it comes down to is this:

    Do you want to play a game with plenty of features on release, but that may not all be working properly?

    -or-

    Do you want to play a game that is built solidly, but may not have all of it's features in on release?


    I place my money on the latter. and TCOS, simply because it seems easier attaching complex features to a solid functioning backbone, rather than add a backbone to a fully operational game with complex end features.

    So make no mistake, both developers have made statements that they put PvP as a priority in the development of their respective games. It's just how they are going about it's that's different. I simply think TCoS has the better plan.

  • Ravel_RPRavel_RP Member Posts: 127

    Interesting replies.

    To add to it, I think TCoS as a game is aiming less for the hardcore mmorpg player and also less to the hardcore PvP player. In this respect the PvP has a more confined role in the game as a whole, namely the end-game. However, the end-game may become even more interesting when shard conquest will be implemented after release.

    But then we are only talking about potential, and since some recent released games have given potential a bad name, I am hesitant to use the term for Spellborn. The recent stress test video, however, clearly shows that the original plans for shard conquest are feasible, so I expect to see it post-release within a year.

    image
  • TRMCTRMC Member Posts: 14

    Originally posted by Size-Twelve


    To make it easy on you man, I'm just going to tell it like it is. It's not going to be like AoC.
    It's more similar to WoW in that regard, except there will be no strict PvP server, and the PvP zones they do have are FFA PvP zones. There is also an Arena where ladder tournaments will take place, and this is how the game stands right now.
    Allow me to say though, I've been around MMO's a long while - both games are going to release with problems. AoC might have alot of features, but I think their netcode is a little shaky, and I'm not sure their combat is all it's cracked up to be because of it. I've seen lots of games promise lots of cool features and have, in the end, hurt themselves by releasing a buggy product trying to fit them all in.
    On the other hand, Spellborn appears to be running like a top performance wise based on some beta leaks, and some in-game videos. Their publisher has been very patient, and allowed them plenty of time to make sure the bugs are ironed out. This game is going to be a runner.
    The flip-side though, is that content wise they seem not to be as concerned with PvP features. They seem happy with the somewhat limited PvP they have right now, and instead want to implement further features after release.
    So, what it comes down to is this:
    Do you want to play a game with plenty of features on release, but that may not all be working properly?
    -or-
    Do you want to play a game that is built solidly, but may not have all of it's features in on release?


    I place my money on the latter. and TCOS, simply because it seems easier attaching complex features to a solid functioning backbone, rather than add a backbone to a fully operational game with complex end features.
    So make no mistake, both developers have made statements that they put PvP as a priority in the development of their respective games. It's just how they are going about it's that's different. I simply think TCoS has the better plan.
    Your right I agree with you. When it comes to pre-release mmorpgs. Its easy for someone to hold up there mmorpg and say haha my mmo is better then yours because we have X feature and you don't. but in the long runner after release what good is that feature if it doesn't work. Comparing AoC to Spellborn. Sure AoC sounds more exciting when you look at all the pvp features they talk about. While Spellborn currently have more mainsteam pvp feartures. But when you look at the  combat system and actually see players fighting Spellborn has it far better. In fact no game in development or release has better fights then Spellborns. An the lastest video showing it off where nothing but level ones. 

    Every mmorpg expands on its features be it pve or pvp. So what you see at release is not all that  players will get. The big different is since combat works great. Made good for one vs one, group vs group to guild vs guild. Spellborn has alot more options for new features for pvp then other mmorpgs.  Take Shard Conquest it is spellborn's verison of border kingdoms, or War's RvR system. There where alot of reasons to hold back on that feature to post release. From coding to replay value to adding new features too it. The devs will tell you themselves why it was held off. The Great thing about it is we will get so much more when its release and since its not a feature people will be using from the start why rush to push it out if its not ready.

  • CapnSwallowsCapnSwallows Member Posts: 47
    Originally posted by Size-Twelve


    To make it easy on you man, I'm just going to tell it like it is. It's not going to be like AoC.
    It's more similar to WoW in that regard, except there will be no strict PvP server, and the PvP zones they do have are FFA PvP zones. There is also an Arena where ladder tournaments will take place, and this is how the game stands right now.
    Allow me to say though, I've been around MMO's a long while - both games are going to release with problems. AoC might have alot of features, but I think their netcode is a little shaky, and I'm not sure their combat is all it's cracked up to be because of it. I've seen lots of games promise lots of cool features and have, in the end, hurt themselves by releasing a buggy product trying to fit them all in.
    On the other hand Spellborn appears to be running like a top, performance wise, based on some beta leaks, and some in-game videos. Their publisher has been very patient, and allowed them plenty of time to make sure the bugs are ironed out. This game is going to be a runner.
    The flip-side though, is that content wise they seem not to be as concerned with PvP features. They seem happy with the somewhat limited PvP they have right now, and instead want to implement further features after release.
    So, what it comes down to is this:
    Do you want to play a game with plenty of features on release, but that may not all be working properly?
    -or-
    Do you want to play a game that is built solidly, but may not have all of it's features in on release?


    I place my money on the latter. and TCOS, simply because it seems easier attaching complex features to a solid functioning backbone, rather than add a backbone to a fully operational game with complex end features.
    So make no mistake, both developers have made statements that they put PvP as a priority in the development of their respective games. It's just how they are going about it's that's different. I simply think TCoS has the better plan.

    But isn't the fact that AoC will be buggy pure speculation?  In fact they have pushed back the release date for the sole purpose to polish the game.

  • alkennjoialkennjoi Member Posts: 101

    i should hope people realize that PVP formats in MMOs develop over time and you wont get a super duper developed in depth pvp system at a games initial release.  Since lots of folks play WOW, i'll use that as an example.  You can track the pvp developments in a long line of WoW patches over the life of the game.  World pvp events and tower capturing came after the standard 3 zones(WSG,AB and AV).  Then the arena matches and more outdoor pvp towers came with the expansion.  Siege weapons will be coming etc.

    The Spellborn team has revelaed so much in their dev journals about so many aspects of the game, and much of their plaing for release will be ready.  Also, they allude to what sorts of content they are reserving for post release patches.  I am sure they have many things on their tables for future content and only give us the tip of the iceburg.

    and i agree with the previous posts - and would much rather have a stable system than big hype and empty promises full of technical problems and limitations.  

  • Size-TwelveSize-Twelve Member UncommonPosts: 478

    Originally posted by CapnSwallows

    But isn't the fact that AoC will be buggy pure speculation? In fact they have pushed back the release date for the sole purpose to polish the game.


    Yep, it's pure speculation. I see that they want to make siege warfare where clans can build and defend forts outside of an instanced scenario. They also want to have real-time aiming, massive guild vs. guild combat, fighting on horseback, and they want to do it with the most cutting edge graphics available.

    It just seems a lofty goal to say the least. Games have been promising stuff like this for as long as I can remember. To expect that all of these features are going to run flawlessly at release, just seems to me to be unrealistic. I hope that they do pull it off. I've just been around long enough not to believe it until I see it.

    Something always has to give because of time and money constraints.

  • CapnSwallowsCapnSwallows Member Posts: 47
    Originally posted by alkennjoi


    i should hope people realize that PVP formats in MMOs develop over time and you wont get a super duper developed in depth pvp system at a games initial release.  Since lots of folks play WOW, i'll use that as an example.  You can track the pvp developments in a long line of WoW patches over the life of the game.  World pvp events and tower capturing came after the standard 3 zones(WSG,AB and AV).  Then the arena matches and more outdoor pvp towers came with the expansion.  Siege weapons will be coming etc.
    The Spellborn team has revelaed so much in their dev journals about so many aspects of the game, and much of their plaing for release will be ready.  Also, they allude to what sorts of content they are reserving for post release patches.  I am sure they have many things on their tables for future content and only give us the tip of the iceburg.
    and i agree with the previous posts - and would much rather have a stable system than big hype and empty promises full of technical problems and limitations.  

    But hasn't WoW been out for 4 years? (correct me if I am wrong.) I really don't think that is a reasonable time,then again that is why I am not playing WoW. I sure do hope it wouldn't take them that long to implement good pvp.

  • vajurasvajuras Member Posts: 2,860

    The pve'ers are their primary concern. I suppose they want to flesh out their world with lore. I admire they are focusing on a strength. I will check this title out

    I hope they add the shard conquests. However, here in spellborn PVPers we might be on a backseat. I've seen this before, sadly.

    It really does suck it looks like it would be so perfect for PVP with no armor/weapon restrictions, loose Classes (everyone a hybrid), etc

    I'm going to play this that is my plan. I'll just have to be a PVE'er and blend in


    I hope the FFA PVP zones is decent but I realize their priority is PVE.

  • ThatimThatim Member Posts: 240

    I didnt bother to read all the previous replys, but the person who said TCoS is more PvE focus is wrong. It is going to be more PvP orrientated. There will be PvE content to, but they wont be like WoW placing a new instance in the game after another. Their main focus is on PvP.

     

    I hope this clear some stuff up :)

  • TRMCTRMC Member Posts: 14
    Originally posted by CapnSwallows

    Originally posted by alkennjoi


    i should hope people realize that PVP formats in MMOs develop over time and you wont get a super duper developed in depth pvp system at a games initial release.  Since lots of folks play WOW, i'll use that as an example.  You can track the pvp developments in a long line of WoW patches over the life of the game.  World pvp events and tower capturing came after the standard 3 zones(WSG,AB and AV).  Then the arena matches and more outdoor pvp towers came with the expansion.  Siege weapons will be coming etc.
    The Spellborn team has revelaed so much in their dev journals about so many aspects of the game, and much of their plaing for release will be ready.  Also, they allude to what sorts of content they are reserving for post release patches.  I am sure they have many things on their tables for future content and only give us the tip of the iceburg.
    and i agree with the previous posts - and would much rather have a stable system than big hype and empty promises full of technical problems and limitations.  

    But hasn't WoW been out for 4 years? (correct me if I am wrong.) I really don't think that is a reasonable time,then again that is why I am not playing WoW. I sure do hope it wouldn't take them that long to implement good pvp.

     

     

    Alot of that is because blizzard lost alot of good developers. The ones who made Warcraft what it was went and made Guild Wars. Alot of balancing issues related to the classes among other things made it hard to create new content for pvp. Can't make a good pvp system if your still trying to fix classes. I know improvements happen all the time but theres a big difference between that and trying to figure out what a class is suppose to do. Remember what druids where like at release? Look at what they are now. Took blizz four years to get them there. >.<

  • TRMCTRMC Member Posts: 14
    Originally posted by vajuras


    The pve'ers are their primary concern. I suppose they want to flesh out their world with lore. I admire they are focusing on a strength. I will check this title out
    I hope they add the shard conquests. However, here in spellborn PVPers we might be on a backseat. I've seen this before, sadly.
    It really does suck it looks like it would be so perfect for PVP with no armor/weapon restrictions, loose Classes (everyone a hybrid), etc
    I'm going to play this that is my plan. I'll just have to be a PVE'er and blend in


    I hope the FFA PVP zones is decent but I realize their priority is PVE.

    I wouldn't worry. The first step to making a good pvp system is a good combat system. If you look at it that way pvp is getting its far share of attention. Since we all want balance classes. Also since things like the arena will be there at release. A feature that seems to always make it into a pvp game sooner or later in some shape or form. Since we get our so soon the devs have no choice but to put in shard conquest. Also considering that shard conquest is apart of  shard exploration which in itself is a large part of the lore. I don't think it will be very long before we get it.

  • CapnSwallowsCapnSwallows Member Posts: 47
    Originally posted by Thatim


    I didnt bother to read all the previous replys, but the person who said TCoS is more PvE focus is wrong. It is going to be more PvP orrientated. There will be PvE content to, but they wont be like WoW placing a new instance in the game after another. Their main focus is on PvP.
     
    I hope this clear some stuff up :)

    How? All I am hearing is that they are putting the pvp 2nd to pve. Personally I won't play this game if it is a pve game, I mght as well play oblivion if I wanted to kill a bunch of ai monsters.

  • s0ulls0ull Member Posts: 186

    I think this game is working to provide something for both PvP'ers and PvE'ers which is pretty much largely where this game is different to the WoW clones out there. Not too much has been said about PvP or the point to it, other than the arena's which people have spoken about.

    I don't really understand your question though? what you want to know is, is this going to be a hardcore PvP game? If that is the case then no.

  • BearmugBearmug Member CommonPosts: 18

    It has been said there are 3 pvp areas in the game at start - arena, mines and Green District.

    Arena is standard, lvl 50 only, ranked and unranked fights.

    Mines are places to go for certain crafting materials, they are FFA PvP area.

    Green district is also a FFA PvP area in the main city. City guards don't enter there often. (also it has been said it is lvl 30ish area)

     

    So, PvP is inside, and it can be avoided if players wish.

  • WSIMikeWSIMike Member Posts: 5,564

    Originally posted by CapnSwallows

    Originally posted by Size-Twelve


    To make it easy on you man, I'm just going to tell it like it is. It's not going to be like AoC.
    It's more similar to WoW in that regard, except there will be no strict PvP server, and the PvP zones they do have are FFA PvP zones. There is also an Arena where ladder tournaments will take place, and this is how the game stands right now.
    Allow me to say though, I've been around MMO's a long while - both games are going to release with problems. AoC might have alot of features, but I think their netcode is a little shaky, and I'm not sure their combat is all it's cracked up to be because of it. I've seen lots of games promise lots of cool features and have, in the end, hurt themselves by releasing a buggy product trying to fit them all in.
    On the other hand Spellborn appears to be running like a top, performance wise, based on some beta leaks, and some in-game videos. Their publisher has been very patient, and allowed them plenty of time to make sure the bugs are ironed out. This game is going to be a runner.
    The flip-side though, is that content wise they seem not to be as concerned with PvP features. They seem happy with the somewhat limited PvP they have right now, and instead want to implement further features after release.
    So, what it comes down to is this:
    Do you want to play a game with plenty of features on release, but that may not all be working properly?
    -or-
    Do you want to play a game that is built solidly, but may not have all of it's features in on release?


    I place my money on the latter. and TCOS, simply because it seems easier attaching complex features to a solid functioning backbone, rather than add a backbone to a fully operational game with complex end features.
    So make no mistake, both developers have made statements that they put PvP as a priority in the development of their respective games. It's just how they are going about it's that's different. I simply think TCoS has the better plan.

    But isn't the fact that AoC will be buggy pure speculation?  In fact they have pushed back the release date for the sole purpose to polish the game.

    It's a safe bet there will be bugs - all MMOs have bugs, at release and throughout their lifetimes. Heck, even some single-player games ship with bugs/glitches in them.

    The only speculation is how *many* bugs will it have.

    "If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road,
    and the cash shop selling asphalt..."     - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops

    image

  • mutantmagnetmutantmagnet Member Posts: 274

    Originally posted by Bearmug
    It has been said there are 3 pvp areas in the game at start - arena, mines and Green District.
    Arena is standard, lvl 50 only, ranked and unranked fights.
    Mines are places to go for certain crafting materials, they are FFA PvP area.
    Green district is also a FFA PvP area in the main city. City guards don't enter there often. (also it has been said it is lvl 30ish area)
     
    So, PvP is inside, and it can be avoided if players wish.

    Arena starts at level 40.

    You also forgot they designed quests where you have to pvp to complete objectives.

  • vajurasvajuras Member Posts: 2,860

    I hope they can get to the Shard conquests but I'm just being practical when I loook at their forums the PVP part of it seems empty you know.

    this game seems to have a lot more PVE'ers but I hope they can get shards in there post-launch and it wont disrupt the PVE'ers getting their content.

    I just have bad memories form city of heroes. They just seemed to really ignore their pvp crowd finally I realized I wasn't really wanted there

  • CorodylCorodyl Member Posts: 122
    More PvEers?? Looking at the official forums the most active forum is the PVP one and most of the combat/class forums threads tend to concern PvP in some form. And if you look at the vids they release, most of them show far more pvp than pve.

    The push back on shard conquest is not that great a issue. We have arena and ffa pvp in the areas which have the resources necessary for crafting so PvP is not take a back seat. Pple are gonna have to go to the pvp zones for all their crafting needs.

    Better to get a the pvp groundwork done right and then work on the shard conquest, house vs house pvp post release.
  • BearmugBearmug Member CommonPosts: 18

     

    Originally posted by mutantmagnet


     
    Arena starts at level 40.
    You also forgot they designed quests where you have to pvp to complete objectives.

     

    Damn, didn't see any of those...*goes to dig thru the dev journals for x-th time*

     

    Oh, and not all crafting needs are in mines, just the rarer mats. And the rarity of materials is translated into how deep in the mine you need to go to have a chance of finding it. Or you can just buy it from someone else.

  • PanturaPantura Member Posts: 54

    A big part of keeping silent of the PvE part might be because the devs don't want people to know and see everything beforehand.

    As the phrase goes "What lies hidden, must be found" and there isn't much else to pvp than fighting, that's not such an issue.

    I myself would like that there is not going to be too much info on the real story line, until I get my hands on it :)

  • sonicsixsonicsix Member UncommonPosts: 66

    Here's the thing that many forums dwellers don't get... for every PvP player there are probably 10,000 who hate it.  I am sick of WoW as it has become a PvP focused game.  Now that I am looking for a new MMO to play... I immediately disregard ANY game that has PvP in it.

    There a dozens of PvP games out there and some even forthcoming, but they are doomed to fail simply because there aren't enough PvPers to support them.  If you want a PvP game, great.... but why would you want to incorporate PvP into a PvE game?  You cannot effectively have both before one format interferes with the other.

    The next mega MMO will be one that is PvE only, allows FULL solo play (group content should not even exist), is very casual friendly, massive customization of how your player looks, no levels to grind and no preset classes to choose from.

    People like to socialize in the game but it shouldn't mean they have to group with you.

  • CorodylCorodyl Member Posts: 122

     

    Originally posted by sonicsix
    There a dozens of PvP games out there and some even forthcoming, but they are doomed to fail simply because there aren't enough PvPers to support them.  If you want a PvP game, great.... but why would you want to incorporate PvP into a PvE game?  You cannot effectively have both before one format interferes with the other.

     I used to agree with the PvEers > PvPers line 2-3 yrs ago, but not any more. PvP is the future perhaps not full ffa but RvR or limited ffa yes. You can deny it all you want but frankly i don't care, just look at the general gaming trends in terms of consoles and pc - player versus player/competative gameplay is where it's at.

     

    Anyway, PvP and PvE can live side by side IF the PvE is balanced arounnd the classes and not the other way round. Look at the games with strong pve from EQ-> vanilla wow - the classes are balanced around the PvE part of the game so you end up with skills that are retardly over powered in PvP.

    And there's also the part which is that WoW is the PvE KING right now. If you want to compete against them(even in the underdog category) you do not attack them on the strongest front. I suspect TCoS is gonna be quite healthly involved in the PvP front perhaps even more so than the average PvEer would want once house vs house and shard conquest is in.

  • TylerRainezTylerRainez Member Posts: 1

    I don't believe any game that allows full solo play, without group content,  could not be considered an MMO.  There are many games that have no pvp.  And as for you comment pvp games are doomed to fail...just look at EVE Online...it's growing and it's pvp at all times. 

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