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I wonder how many people do this?
miffywiffy
Member Posts: 245
So it's funny when your friend comes upto you and is like "i'm bored of WOW i need a new mmorpg" so you refer them to EVE Online and they download the 14 day free trial. Once they log into the game they all seem to roll Caldari and then get into the game, leave the station, try to blow something up and end up dying then they quit and say the game was gay lol.
The ones that stay beyond this point quit after about 2 days because training for Battleships takes too long. It seems like alot of people are turned off by time training and for some reason they feel the need to get into the best ships straight away, even though on other mmorpgs it'll take them atleats a month to get to the top, in EVE they can't wait a day.
Comments
You just started another flamethread, i should better report this thread before the flamefest starts.
btw. thats why eve does not have too many subs, but the ones who actually stay are so loyal. It just doesnt cater for everyone
Yeah, i know this... I said some friends they could try it with EVE... 1 day later they played other games
. You shouldn't say them they could try it with so complex games... I think they like "red-string"-games like WoW... Say them you don't know games that they like.
bye Defcon_1
I don't think people expect to be flying battleships in a day or two. Its the feeling that nothing they do in game will shorten the wait. Nearly all other games you can log in and gain xp towards a level. Feeling like you had accomplished something and come closer to your goals. Not in Eve though. The game tells you how long you must wait and there isn't anything you can do about it.
So if someone has a desire or goal of flying a battleship or any other long training ship... then yeah there is a good chance they will get bored and quit the game. Why would they want to pay months of subscription fees to "wait"?
Yes, raising attributes shortens the training time, but they them selves take a large amount of time.
As you play Eve, more horizons open up.
Another good thing is that there is no 'best ship'. It depends entirely on your style and what the job is.
For example, to me the best ship is a really tiny one! - Covert Ops.
However, it takes a really long time to get the right skills for. But this is another good thing because it makes my ship more unusual. My ship setup is very unusual as well. It makes you feel unique.
There are so many variations. You have to plan what you want to do, and how you want to play it.
What he said. It's exactly that. For new players it seems like they are not doing anything at all, you can't gain XP as in other MMOs, so yeah - it feels painful.
As someone once said....." EVE is a game for players with patience.... but not everyone has it."
(ok, I just said it actually)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I absolutely loved the start, there was without a doubt a lot of "oh crap i can't fit that" but then the first levels take 15 mins for the basics and there is something you can set to run overnight so that you can have it tomorrow so i don't have to grind till 4 am for that lvl and go to work a zombie.
you start to pimp out your frigate, then you loose it in a mission and the weeping starts, i was totally hooked.
the absolute terror i felt when i opened the starmap and the market and saw the statistics, and saw that they would be usefull if i had a clue was astounding, giving the impresion of depth.
While i don't like can baiting i like that it is a great discoragment to the same group you are referring to, "oh look, free loot.....boom!!!", lession number 1: no free loot in EVE.
As a casual gamer I wanna give my opinion here. I tried EVE. The game looks like a good game when you read about it so I download the trial a started the game. I just played for some hours. Yeah is a good game, you have that feel once you start to play and so, but Im sorry is not for me, it appears to be too much time consuming and too complicated. But I hope this game last for long becouse it shows the other companies that "Other way of making games is possible".
You should join Eve University. It's a famous player-run corporation that helps new players.
If there is something you don't understand, they will explain it to you.
There is no pressure to spend any more time playing than you want to.
I was a member for 7-months and I recommend it.
The only reason I left Eve University was to join an alliance participating in the PvP Great War in 0.0.
Here is a link to their recruitment thread:
myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp
Before i start this post please understand that i am a fan of EVE and i played it on and off for over two years (even had two accounts at one time). But saying this, there were marked reasons why i left the game in the end and they are also what stops me from returning;
1 - Training system restrictions. This is probably the biggest bug bear of all, as it is not only the time involved in training some skills at higher level (20-30days+ is just madness), but more importantly that you can only train one character at a time. If you want to train up another char, you have to stop training the first, it is something that i have never understood them correcting. Most other MMO's ar not only cheaper on a monthly basis, but they allow you to train up several characters at the same time, allowing players to see more of the game in a shorter amount of time. I understand the way that EVE works and they don't want the univers flooded with millions of useless characters, but even keeping just the three chars per account, but opening up training for all three at the same time would be a massive step forward.
2 - Time! The game just sucks time out of your life. Even for a simple corporation mining operation, you really need to set aside 4-5 hours once you have included travelling time and hauling. If you want to get involved in a big 0.0 war, you can pretty much scratch a whole weekend. Just basic travelling can really suck time as i remember travelling a basic route between my home base (ideally placed to make personal cash) and my corporations centre of operations was a good 30 minutes on auto and runs to 0.0 operations were much, much longer.
The game itself is fantastic with one of the best economies i have seen in any game, but these basic things will always keep subscribers away
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
I have seen the same thing with a guild mate who has only played SWG since the NGE as he is trying Eve. He was frustrated with the skill system. I then spent a good hour talking about the eve lore, galaxy, history, and the future of eve- he had a ton of questions and I used all the web resources from here and eve online to help him. And I am a noob.
When he was educated- he was happy and fully converted to abandoned the
dumbed down selfless hack and slash concept of todays easy mmorpg concepts- no offense blix-
I look at it this way. Wow is a good game. But if you want depth and sci fi.
Eve is it. 
I started traveling something like 14 jumps away for a complex and it would take me 15 mins or so.
Basically they made it so you don't need waypoints to jump to 0 on gates.There is acctually an otion to jump to different distances from your destination.
Expl.. 0 to whatever you can even set it to whatever you want.
"The most important thing is to have the design support the players in setting their own goals in both cooperative and competitive interaction with one another." - Ironore -
Im gonna reference WoW here.
Eve's concept for your points 1 and 2 are similar to other MMOs, like WoW. In WoW you cant level 2 characters at once, no, you have to switch to a different character to skill him... just like Eve and most MMOs. Same thing with time. Ok so it takes 4-5 hours to do a Mining Op, have you ever Raided in WoW? It takes anywhere from 3-5 hours to run the upper level raids. They also have raiding weekends in guilds where people show up and run raid after raid all day, all weekend.
So its wrong to group your 2 points to Eve exclusivly. Actually they are both persistant in most MMOs out there.
The difference is that in games like wow you are required to grind your levels. You feel you are making progress with each mob you kill. You see your xp bar go up that bit more. With eve you need do nothing and many players dont do anything except log in to change skills.
You try mining yet find it a dull grind. You set some orders but find trading is a passive activity, as is manufacturing and invention. You run some missions but find they are all alike and rapidly get dull. Then you think why should I log in, so you dont.
You can PvP though, except you cant. You cant afford to lose ANY ship. Not that your frig with basic t1 fittings and you rank 1 skills will make it past the first encounter. So there is absolutely nothing you can do in the game. Every PvE aspect you have dismissed as dull and PvP is out of bounds.
Now you can wait a couple of months get your learning skills but then you are doing nothing now. You can train combat skills straight away but it still is going to take many months before you can do anything.
Overall you are paying to log in and change skill training. Most people want some gameplay for thier money. You have to be patient to play eve. Every single action has pointless time sinks. Auto pilot, drop them 15km from the gate so they waste time, dock make it so they have to wait to change ships. Pointless time sinks, an abuse of the customer with no gameplay aspects.
I am simply not willing to wait 6 months to play a game. Even then I will be hopeless undertrained compared to the veterans. You cant realy afford to PvP even with level 4 missions. You have to run so many missions it takes days to outfit a new ship. 99% of the game is grinding to get ISK.
Just look at the corps recruitment. "want people to refuel our pos". Do they realy think people enjoy running from pos to pos refueling them. Its like a wow guild advertising "want people to grind herbs and give them to us". Each of the corps is looking for worker ants to do the grinding. Even the PvP is the same they want you to go fight for them with ships you have to pay for yourself.
The gameplay in eve is almost no existant. What you have is a few guys that have invested time and are scared silly that they will lose the advantages that gives them. You need a level of autism to do the same repetative thing over and over without variation.
Lets be clever and call it a "sandbox game". Well I can give you a peice of paper and call it a paper game. You can do lots of things with that paper far more than you can in eve. But guess what, I wouldnt pay you for the paper. I am paying for some effort, some content from CCP. I can go buy a movie, its content, it entertains me. Eve has no content, nothing to do at all unless you are like some child making an imaginary world from whatever you do find. "Oh a cardbox box, I'll stand in it and pretend its a castle". There are no challenges presented by the game that you must overcome. Try it and you will find you are stopped by the twin pillars of the no way to advance your SP, and the grind of making ISK.
Fine I'll bite someuser... I played WoW hit the level cap, did the raiding scene, the pvp bit... there was no sense of accomplishment on the dings of XP. If you have that sense of accomplishment I know a couple of 5-7 year olds with multiple 70s. attack mobs 1 level above grey and you can get there too!
The people who only log in to change skills and just that has absolutely nothing to do with the leveling system. Most of the times, and I have been there too, you just get burnt out on EVE for a bit. Happens in every MMO I've ever been in you just get tired of it for a bit and want to do something else. People in EVE just keep their accounts up and swap skills while they do something else for a break. If people are doing this with in the first month of EVE then log off and cancel your account, You obviously don't like EVE and its not worth you wasting your money on it.
PVP- Get friends seriously if your corp doesn't help you with going PVPing then find a new corp. You don't need T2 pwn ships to win in EVE, you need a brain on your head... Your young, you won't out damage any veteran PVPer... that doesn't mean you should even try. I'm almost 3 years old and I don't try any stand up damage fights because well its stupid and I might lose. Get 3-4 guys get into some EWAR ships, Web Scram, Damp, Jam, and do what ever you can do to annoy the person your fighting. Use that same group of people to blitz through missions to get money and isk faster. With in the first week or two you should have no problem having several frigates and destroyers fitted with T1 gear at a staging point for easy replacement for PVP. Will you win every fight and be the PVPers of DOOM no... but then again nobody in EVE has one every PVP fight they have ever been in. I know what I'm doing and still lose stuff, importantly less then at the beginning but then again I know what winnable now from experience.
You call missions and mining boring - well they are... so is grinding for mats and gold in WoW and other games. the thing is with out the requirement to acquire materials in some sense it quickly becomes "Quake EVE edition" or "Battlefield WoW" there is only so much enjoyment that those games can provide for certain people, and I would say for the target demographic for EVE players a very short amount of time.
That said you say you can't fund PVP on level 4 missions then that s something your having a problem with. I tend because ot time constraints to run missions on the weekdays and PVP on the weekends and running with mostly Battleships in PVP (scorps mostly) I'm easily able to keep my self in ships with my missioning. Depending on how well you've been doing you fly different ships, adapt to the differences of your in-game wallet If your capable of flying lvl 4 missions and you can't keep your self with a large stockpile of Cruisers to fight with again you need to look at what you are doing.
A lot of mechanics take a while you bring up Autopilot... ever thought about not using it? Seriously its the slowest possible way to move around the galaxy. Its there when you need to do something else but want to move your self or a ship a certain distance. Its a way to travel AFK not while your sitting at the keyboard.
Corp recruitment well if your in that channel and you see some one post that I suggest Right Click>block. That said there are the people out there who like managing the POS supply chains, one of the girls in my alliance lives that logistical aspect of the game. I mentioned I didn't like doing it and she jumped on the chance so fast she had them all topped off with buy orders setup and transport contracts before I could tell her to go ahead and take care of it. I have no clue why these people like to do that but as long as I'm running a corp/alliance I'll look for those people and put the to work on what they enjoy doing. Thats why you see those recruitment messages.
As for the game play is non-existent for new players is more because if you think that going in you can find it very easily. I knowing the opposite see the game play available to all players because thats what I want to see and its easy to see that. Reminds me of Basic training at the 15ft tall Wall obstacle you had to get to the other side of. I was the last one in the line and when the Drill Sergeant told me to get to the other side I walked around the side(it was only 8" wide). The vets only game play perception is just that a perception. You seem to have walked into EVE with the expectation to find these walls and you found the climb that you we're looking for which you can find similar things is every game out there if you want it.
Myself i used to play in 2003 and quit to play SWG, i quit SWG in 2005 and been waiting for a new mmorpg ever since, because the time training put me off as i could never catch the veteran players. However when the new graphics expansion is out i'll give the game another go again.
OK, you are right in some respects, but there are some major differences and this is what puts people off EVE.
1 - If i have just started a 20 day training manual on EVE i cannot then go to one of my other characters and start some training on him instead. WoW differs in, ok, i have to be playing my charcter to level him, but i can switch and level any of my (possibly dozens) characters any time i please without restriction.
2 - With a raid or dungeon run in WoW, the 4-5 hours or less (or more depending on the raid i guess) is actual raiding time if the team has been put together before hand, so you are constantly doing something across that time. The difference with EVE is that there is a lot of time either doing nothing or very little especially when it comes to mining ops, which you have to admit are central to the game. A lot of time is taken in travelling, marking jump points, setting out cans etc. Things are of course a little more exciting in 0.0 for defenders, but you get the idea. Even with 0.0 raids etc, there is still major travelling time and a lot of hanging around gates waiting for fleets to appear (or not in some cases).
Again, i really do like EVE, i think it has a lot to offer to players and it should be a lot bigger than it is, but it really does now have the rep of a game where if you join it you have no real chance of 'catching up' with the 'Elite' players.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
I miss playing eve and i miss playing wow. Eve was best before exodus and wow was best before tbc, they both don't do it for me now.
My boss took me to lunch one day and talked about eve and I went out and bought thinking it would Privateer2 clive owen is you online. I figured out the game while still jaded about how cool i thought it was going to be. I loved playing don't get me wrong but that jadedness about what I thought it might be like got me over the hump of figuring the game out. Once i figured the game out, Like why my medium hybrid turrent wouldn't fit on my tristan, i actually had the requirements if you swap cpu and powergrid cause that was my goal to put that big gun on the tristan in the first weeks of play, then it became fun.
All other games i've played since I've logged on a couple times just to dink around and after a day or two thought the game was kind of gay, lineage 2, wurm, shadowbane, tabula rosa, auto assault, vanguard, everquest 2, anarchy online, scions of fate, rf online, and even wow. WoW was no different than those other games in my first couple months of play. Of all those games the only ones I gave second chances too were lineage 2, rf online, wow, I guess tabula rasa too. Anyway for me it takes a long while to get up and running and usually involves stopping for weeks at a time before I get back into it, with the exception of my first mmo eve. I made it to level 8 on my first day of wow and thought this game sucks back to eve. Then I found out my friends played it like a month later and tried again and only got to lvl 20 and thought this game sucks. Only after quitting eve and thinking about giving wow another shot did I really start to get in to it. So i didn't start playing wow until about 5 months after I picked it up in the store.
some games just take a while to get into.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
if I were to kill a titan tomorrow and no CCP employees showed up to say grats I would petition it.
Waiting for: the next MMO that lets me make this macro
if hp < 30 then CastSpell("heal") SpellTargetUnit("player") else CastSpell("smite") end
OMFG
wake up
all skills lvl5 in eve are over 10 000 training day's and over 420 m skill points and most player have 80-90 m sp
the max lvl in frigate is still 5 lvl cruiser still 5 lvl
if ppl dont understand that the only difference between a new player and a old player is that older can fly more ships and a new player can fly few
but when they meet a old player and the same type of ships they have fair chances, that means specialize your skills (example my char have over 27m sp 81 skills and 36 to lvl 5)
if u don't understand this basic thing, sry for u but GO AND PLAY WOW
BestSigEver :P
You have just pretty much made the point in that post about the lower accessibility of the game!
I only know from playing the game myself that someone in a smaller ship can be just as useful as someone else in a battleship, BUT NEW PLAYERS DON'T!!! Unless a new player is very lucky to get a good corp to help them along in their choices or you spend hours reading up on game guides how the hell do you know what to specialise in anyway?
You cannot criticize new players for feeling a bit daunted with this game when they start as it can be very complex and there is really no argument about the fact that they will never catch up with veteran players, so shouting 'so what, you can only use fewer ships, live with it' doesn't really help.
This game will always be a 'niche' game on the whole without some radical changes, but those radical changes could ruin what is essentially a very good game. I think a couple of smaller changes to make the game that little more accessible would make all the difference.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
Well, new players start with ~800k sp now. I myself started with 30k..
The tutorial got better too.
But seriously i dont want to miss the gaps between vets and newbies. Its nothing serious, but creates diversity as everyone specializes in other forms of stuff.
download evemon it helps train when you are offline and is perfectly legal
playing eq2 and two worlds
People have mentioned in this post that new players in small ships can be really useful. What people haven't mentioned is that alot of vets tend to fly the smaller ships too as they are more fun and alot of time the most important ships in pvp.
Another thing I find with EvE is, is that the community seems to be alot more mature (dare I say it, older (I know I'm one of the older ones!)) This game really is not for the "press one button and kill your target kids". You really do need to have a good intelligence level to play EvE. Sorry if this offends the point and click kiddies out there but its true. You have to be able to think and plan, work out solutions in EvE, not just go I'll level up and get a bigger sword then kill that mob that just wiped me out.
Look at WoW and take the average age range, even find out how old the youngest players are then look at EvE and you'll find a noticeable difference. Look at your chats in WoW and EvE, one uses kiddie l33t speak, the other uses English. Says alot about each game.
I've played both. I play Wow if I can't be bothered to think/concentrate (Usually after a hard day at work). If I want to use my brain then I'll play EvE. That's the difference between the two games. More often than not I'll play EvE as I like to think and calculate what to do rather than point and click.
I guess to sum up, if you like colouring, play WoW, if you like crosswords play EvE.
I am sorry, but that is crap!
I have played both games and met both ends of the social spectrum in both. You can't tell me that you don't get the 'F U NOOB' on chat in EVE at all, it is just a lot less common as there are less people spread across a bigger space. I have met the guys that just hang in new player areas in high sec space prodding new players into attacks so they get blown away by the security forces, all for a cheap laugh.
At the other end of it i was in a guild in WoW and the oldest member was 73 and the average age was around the mid 30's. Conversation was bright, funny and they were great people to be around.
Every player in any game will settle to their own level along with other players of the same type, so don't stereotype every player of a certain game!
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
I am sorry, but that is crap!
I have played both games and met both ends of the social spectrum in both. You can't tell me that you don't get the 'F U NOOB' on chat in EVE at all, it is just a lot less common as there are less people spread across a bigger space. I have met the guys that just hang in new player areas in high sec space prodding new players into attacks so they get blown away by the security forces, all for a cheap laugh.
At the other end of it i was in a guild in WoW and the oldest member was 73 and the average age was around the mid 30's. Conversation was bright, funny and they were great people to be around.
Every player in any game will settle to their own level along with other players of the same type, so don't stereotype every player of a certain game!
I think you mis-understood Tezcat's post. He was referring to complexity and difficulty between the two games, and nothing to do about the social maturity levels. Both coloring and playing crosswords can be fun, and challenging, but for different reasons and require different skills to master.And you're not being honest if you say that WOW doesn't have about 20 times more folks under 20 years of age playing the game vs EVE.... My son and 6 of his friends all play WOW..have for 2 years now.... me, I left the game a year ago and so far in EVE I've met about....er..... 2 people under 18.....
And that doesn't even matter to me..since I'm a father of 3 children, I'm not afraid of them in games as much as the average player seems to be.
On to other points...I've been playing for 5.5 months now....and I really don't feel that disadvantaged against any player in this game. Oh sure, there's people in my Corp playing for 3 or 4 years...and yet when we go on a corporate OP we all fly stealthbombers (except for the dictor pilots) and while they seem to get more killmails, my name is usually on the list....
Yeah, there's folks flying around in Carriers and larger ships.... doesn't bother me though..when I was in WOW I was wearing Tier 2 gear while many players had Tier 3.... I played the game to make me happy, and I was proud of the gear I had earned. Always going to be players better outfitted and who play a game better than me... I can live with that.....
Timesinks in EVE? Yep, mission running is boring... so are quests in WOW...the first time I did quests in WOW they were fun..after the 5th alt.... no more dull than doing EVE's 10 or 15 missions. In fact, my fifth level 60 I skipped over half the quests, was quicker and less trouble just to find a good camp and grind for my XP...which is why I don't mind grinding for ISK in EVE.
EVE's just like any game really..except that unlike most... the things I do matter... I can affect the game world (with the help of my corp), I can fight other players...who enjoy fighting with me. If I was a griefer...I could do that....if I like mining, or trading, I can do that.
Face it, we all enjoy different things about every game..which is why there is more than one game....
As far as training only one character.... I'll call BS on that.... no game permits you to train more than one character. In a normal game, you only 'train' by being on line on that specific character.... and doing some sort of activity.... switch characters, and the first character is no longer advancing. EVE is no different... you can have 3 characters...and if you switch to another... the first won't advance either.
What you folks are really complaining about is you wish they'd let you train 3 characters at the same time...and that's crazy from their perspective.... the rules force people like me to pay for 2 accounts.. so I can train two characters at a time... which is something a WOW player can't really do.
Sure, you can own two accounts in WOW (I had 2) but you can't actually play them at the same time unless you dual box...and most folks don't bother with it as its not really efficient. (was a great ploy in DAOC however). At least in EVE....I'm able to purchase and train 2 accounts at the same time....
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon