Just a quick post, whats bothering me is what happens if the Alliance out number the Destruction or vice verser, is there anyway of balancing out the numbers on the servers u play on.
Go back to WoW please... there is no Alliance and Destruction in WAR,only Order and Chaos... zomg!
I think anyone saying the 90% of the player base of an mmorpg is nothing but hopless accounts to fill the coffers of the dev is a direct insult to all the players busting their but to be there best. every player deserves the opportunitity to feel what high lvl rvr and team work is.To say that the war player base is a bunch of tards who don't wan't to do there best is beyond arroganece.Every new gamer if they try hard and play right should feel that narcotic rush I used to get online.Personally I hope all the players are allowed to strive to play there best and be rewardaed for it.They deserve it.I'm not a god to gamming,I just bust my rump and do my best for my team.Wtf is wrong with people trying to do their best.Just to write them off as fodder is BS.I was fodder too when i Started.Now im cosidered ok,It took alot of effort but there are beleive it or not people who like rewards for effort and hard work.To in any way state that a new generation of gammers are hopeless fodder based on your experience is bs .Every player can fill role and kick butt for thier team.Just cause you got booted because lack of teamwork or poor attitude,don't take it on on new players.They have the same potential of any uber player/group out there.Do not cut them down.they are the future of the genre,not the outcasts.Every exprienced player I know wan'ts them to do good and be a team player.They will even help them along the way.Please don't drag our future gamers into mediocritry,let them accell and fight thier heart out.
I think anyone saying the 90% of the player base of an mmorpg is nothing but hopless accounts to fill the coffers of the dev is a direct insult to all the players busting their but to be there best. every player deserves the opportunitity to feel what high lvl rvr and team work is.To say that the war player base is a bunch of tards who don't wan't to do there best is beyond arroganece.Every new gamer if they try hard and play right should feel that narcotic rush I used to get online.Personally I hope all the players are allowed to strive to play there best and be rewardaed for it.They deserve it.I'm not a god to gamming,I just bust my rump and do my best for my team.Wtf is wrong with people trying to do their best.Just to write them off as fodder is BS.I was fodder too when i Started.Now im cosidered ok,It took alot of effort but there are beleive it or not people who like rewards for effort and hard work.To in any way state that a new generation of gammers are hopeless fodder based on your experience is bs .Every player can fill role and kick butt for thier team.Just cause you got booted because lack of teamwork or poor attitude,don't take it on on new players.They have the same potential of any uber player/group out there.Do not cut them down.they are the future of the genre,not the outcasts.Every exprienced player I know wan'ts them to do good and be a team player.They will even help them along the way.Please don't drag our future gamers into mediocritry,let them accell and fight thier heart out.
Man, that's hard to read. Spacing and paragraphs are our friends.
I agree. Regardless of skill, everyone should be allowed to have fun. Some people take it seriously and choose to go all out and play with the same crew day after day and hone their skill. Others just like to go to where the fight is and try to kick some butt. Still others prefer to avoid direct conflict with other players. The cool thing to me about WAR, is that all these people doing exactly what they enjoy doing can all be working toward the same goal. Hopefully this game will have something for all levels of MMO conflict. PVP and competitive PVE.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR Playing: WAR Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
Well with the experience they should have from DAoC... they probably have some ideas. However, as many have said you can't really balance it numbers wise. Most anything you could do (if one side is way over populated) would most likely lose you customers. Say you made it so people were forced to roll on the other side. Well if you only bought WAR to play with a friend and now you can't... etc etc DAoC... Well when they opened classic servers I rolled a Hib on Gareth. I had always played Albion from launch and I wanted a change. EVERY person I knew claimed they were going to roll MId (now you can take from that what you want). Anyway so I rolled a hib and used the name of my Infiltrator. I was in the mid 30's on the second day the server was up. Suddenly I get a tell and all those people who said they'd roll mid had gone hib. At that point I was going to delete and go mid or alb but didn't. Anyway to make a long story short. I remember when it got to the point that hib was rolling a 100 to 300 person zerg. I'm sure the lag wave was enough to kill most enemies. Sure sometimes they got mass farmed and I'm sure some oil dumpers etc made some pretty crazy numbers. However.. on average nobody stood a chance (not always .. but it was a very unbalanced thing numbers wise). So yes.. hopefully they have learned from that. As I'm sure if someone faced that in a new to the market game.. their joy level would degrade quickly.
I played on the Classic servers quite awhile after they had been opened...and most of the Hibs re-rolled Albs by then and the population numbers between the two realms were more or less even across the board...(except for the mids...still too low)
It all tends to balance out eventually...unless there is a pronounce d favorite......
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Maybe you can help me with your english major degree write a professional editorial on a two bit forum? lol,like I get paid for this crap or give a rats arse get a life.I wouldn't even post on here if I felt it was that important.It's not like this is a job resume,just chill out.Everything will be okay.just take your meds as prescribed.
LOL, you chill out. I agreed with you. I said one line about the huge block of text that looked like one big sentence. I took the time to read what you had to say. The least you could do is hit your f'ing space bar and enter key once in a while.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR Playing: WAR Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
Just like DAoC in the 3-way RvR battles, the populations will change based on content updates, buffs, nerfs, etc. People will switch sides particularly in WAR between Order and Chaos since the classes on the opposing side aren't just doppelgangers of each other (cough cough WoW cough cough). Over time the popularity and effectiveness of all the classes will change. For example, when World of Warcraft was in its infancy, Warlocks were the laughingstock of the game. Warlocks were considered free HKs (honorable kills) since they were so weak. Nowadays many people complain about them being overpowered.
Over time the balances will shift back and forth so as far as "fair play" is concerned it's important to keep the big picture in mind. At least for the first 6-8 months I'm not going to be terribly concerned with the Order v Destruction ratios. I'll probably be too busy exploring the new game world and learning new classes.
With almost a half million people wanting to beta test, i'm sure there will be plenty of feedback to monitor in order to help achieve a relatively close balance.
I do agree with this statement, but im not realy talking about indidvidual races, more on sheer numbers on one side or another. as playing Horde on a pvp server in WoW ( dare i say the word ) was sometimes very frustrating due to the fact that a large percentage played alliance..... dam kids, lol
Each side will have 3 factions. Each faction can go to their allies lands and help with the fight. Hopefully this will help balance things as well. Even if one faction isn't popular, the most populated ally could assist if needed.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR Playing: WAR Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
The bad news is there is no way to balance a 2 way war.
The easiest way to balance a 2 way fight in today's MMO era is the instanced scenarios. There's just one problem. The majority of people that are looking forward to WAR want to play in the open-world RvR akin to DAOC.
And here-in lies the issue. My opinion? This is the main reason that release got pushed back. Hopefully they'll come up with something to balance the sides & make open-world RvR NOT a gank fest with the higher population side dominating the lower population side.
Hopefully 5-6 months is enough time to do it.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
I know for the PVP Scenario areas they have NPC's to balance out the numbers on your team .. not sure about over all server.
This is another problem which bothers me, how can u expect NPC's to fight as well as an actual player ? It way balance the numbers but i ca'nt see it balancing the actual fight, but anyway i cant see Scenarios not being filled at least not untill the server goes quite. At the launch of the game your probably have to wait to get in to the scenrio's. One more moan and that is do not like the idea of loot being dropped in RvR when pvping. I just think it will cause to many arguments, you can get loot by doing quests and pve ing or by playing in PvPing Scenarios.
I know for the PVP Scenario areas they have NPC's to balance out the numbers on your team .. not sure about over all server.
This is another problem which bothers me, how can u expect NPC's to fight as well as an actual player ? It way balance the numbers but i ca'nt see it balancing the actual fight, but anyway i cant see Scenarios not being filled at least not untill the server goes quite. At the launch of the game your probably have to wait to get in to the scenrio's. One more moan and that is do not like the idea of loot being dropped in RvR when pvping. I just think it will cause to many arguments, you can get loot by doing quests and pve ing of by playing in PvPing Scenarios.
You guys are too much. Let's just cancel the whole thing. Hell, let's just never do team based PVP again since it can't be balanced. Let's not do PVP at all since player skills can't be balanced.
The Dogs of War NPCs are for the instanced scenarios only. The only other AI form of balancing I've heard of is for the capitol cities. Over time the NPCs in an enemy held capitol will respawn faster and become more powerful until they overwhelm the occupiers and retake the city which will reset the war.
As for player number balance, each side has 3 factions. There will be 3 battlefronts to fight on and factions can go to the aid of allies. So if an underpopulated faction is getting overrun, then the more populous ally should assist. If you're losing one battlefront, you can hit the enemy on another. Or you can just whine about the injustice of it all.
PVP looting serves two purposes. It allows those that don't want to PVE to have quality gear and it serves as an incentive for the timid to get involved in RVR and discover how exciting and fun it can be. Squabbling over loot is no reason to remove the feature. One of the main things they've been saying is that you can go from beginning to end with just PVP or PVE if you want. The quickest and best way is a mixture, but you don't have to do more than one if you desire. It may not be an issue anyway, depending on how they set up loot rights.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR Playing: WAR Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
You guys are too much. Let's just cancel the whole thing. Hell, let's just never do team based PVP again since it can't be balanced. Let's not do PVP at all since player skills can't be balanced. The Dogs of War NPCs are for the instanced scenarios only. The only other AI form of balancing I've heard of is for the capitol cities. Over time the NPCs in an enemy held capitol will respawn faster and become more powerful until they overwhelm the occupiers and retake the city which will reset the war. As for player number balance, each side has 3 factions. There will be 3 battlefronts to fight on and factions can go to the aid of allies. So if an underpopulated faction is getting overrun, then the more populous ally should assist. If you're losing one battlefront, you can hit the enemy on another. Or you can just whine about the injustice of it all. PVP looting serves two purposes. It allows those that don't want to PVE to have quality gear and it serves as an incentive for the timid to get involved in RVR and discover how exciting and fun it can be. Squabbling over loot is no reason to remove the feature. One of the main things they've been saying is that you can go from beginning to end with just PVP or PVE if you want. The quickest and best way is a mixture, but you don't have to do more than one if you desire. It may not be an issue anyway, depending on how they set up loot rights.
QFT. I completely agree with your viewpoint.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
They have not discussed HOW they will rectify population imbalances other then to say that in some circumstances the Dogs of War will step up for the low pop side.
I think they are going to wait and see which races are shunned and which are over played and probably do a "+ to hit, exp, loot" for the undermanned realms a "- to hit, exp, loot" for over manned.
That's my guess for now.
Out of all the posters on here this one really stuck out to me being that it is a tactic SOE practices in their MMOs.
Class balancing/ faction base cannot be fixed with things like this, what does happen with the dynamic that you implied is people buy extra accounts and make characters in order to spy on others (which is a idiot's way of playing a game).
I think the perks should all be "equal" and every loot table set up should all have equal% among factions (that brings in a whole theme that focuses on PvP imbalance then).
I hope I never see a epic hammer that does 2 x 8 million damage upon a critical hit in this game.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion,I gain strength, through strength,I gain power,through power,I gain victory,through victory,my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
You can't force a player on which side to be on. If the game tried, the community would backlash. Also, players want to be on the winning side. Look at SWG, you could switch sides any time you liked without a real penalty. Here is another example. I don't know if it is just in people's head or if there is something funky in the coding with WoW. Back in the day before the battle group, you could take your pre-built alliance group into a PvP match and you were nearly guaranteed to lose. Take that same group in with their horde toons, and they are were almost always guaranteed a victory.
Will it be fair? Who knows, but going in and destroying the other side's towns will be a lot of fun.
One aspect of this that can't be denied is individual player computer programming skills. Warhammer can build the most balanced game out there, but one fact remains clear. No matter how smart the developers are with the game, there will be people out there that are smarter and will successfully hack the game. That is why I firmly believe there is no level playing field in online games no matter how hard the developers try.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
You can't force a player on which side to be on. If the game tried, the community would backlash. Also, players want to be on the winning side. Look at SWG, you could switch sides any time you liked without a real penalty. Here is another example. I don't know if it is just in people's head or if there is something funky in the coding with WoW. Back in the day before the battle group, you could take your pre-built alliance group into a PvP match and you were nearly guaranteed to win. Take that same group in with their horde toons, and they are were almost always guaranteed a victory. Will it be fair? Who knows, but going in and destroying the other side's towns will be a lot of fun. One aspect of this that can't be denied is individual player computer programming skills. Warhammer can build the most balanced game out there, but one fact remains clear. No matter how smart the developers are with the game, there will be people out there that are smarter and will successfully hack the game. That is why I firmly believe there is no level playing field in online games no matter how hard the developers try.
Comments
Go back to WoW please... there is no Alliance and Destruction in WAR,only Order and Chaos... zomg!
LOL, you owned yourself on that one.
I think anyone saying the 90% of the player base of an mmorpg is nothing but hopless accounts to fill the coffers of the dev is a direct insult to all the players busting their but to be there best. every player deserves the opportunitity to feel what high lvl rvr and team work is.To say that the war player base is a bunch of tards who don't wan't to do there best is beyond arroganece.Every new gamer if they try hard and play right should feel that narcotic rush I used to get online.Personally I hope all the players are allowed to strive to play there best and be rewardaed for it.They deserve it.I'm not a god to gamming,I just bust my rump and do my best for my team.Wtf is wrong with people trying to do their best.Just to write them off as fodder is BS.I was fodder too when i Started.Now im cosidered ok,It took alot of effort but there are beleive it or not people who like rewards for effort and hard work.To in any way state that a new generation of gammers are hopeless fodder based on your experience is bs .Every player can fill role and kick butt for thier team.Just cause you got booted because lack of teamwork or poor attitude,don't take it on on new players.They have the same potential of any uber player/group out there.Do not cut them down.they are the future of the genre,not the outcasts.Every exprienced player I know wan'ts them to do good and be a team player.They will even help them along the way.Please don't drag our future gamers into mediocritry,let them accell and fight thier heart out.
I agree. Regardless of skill, everyone should be allowed to have fun. Some people take it seriously and choose to go all out and play with the same crew day after day and hone their skill. Others just like to go to where the fight is and try to kick some butt. Still others prefer to avoid direct conflict with other players. The cool thing to me about WAR, is that all these people doing exactly what they enjoy doing can all be working toward the same goal. Hopefully this game will have something for all levels of MMO conflict. PVP and competitive PVE.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR
Playing: WAR
Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
It all tends to balance out eventually...unless there is a pronounce d favorite......
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Maybe you can help me with your english major degree write a professional editorial on a two bit forum? lol,like I get paid for this crap or give a rats arse get a life.I wouldn't even post on here if I felt it was that important.It's not like this is a job resume,just chill out.Everything will be okay.just take your meds as prescribed.
LOL, you chill out. I agreed with you. I said one line about the huge block of text that looked like one big sentence. I took the time to read what you had to say. The least you could do is hit your f'ing space bar and enter key once in a while.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR
Playing: WAR
Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
I do agree with this statement, but im not realy talking about indidvidual races, more on sheer numbers on one side or another. as playing Horde on a pvp server in WoW ( dare i say the word ) was sometimes very frustrating due to the fact that a large percentage played alliance..... dam kids, lol
Each side will have 3 factions. Each faction can go to their allies lands and help with the fight. Hopefully this will help balance things as well. Even if one faction isn't popular, the most populated ally could assist if needed.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR
Playing: WAR
Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
as fair as its gonna get lol
The bad news is there is no way to balance a 2 way war.
The easiest way to balance a 2 way fight in today's MMO era is the instanced scenarios. There's just one problem. The majority of people that are looking forward to WAR want to play in the open-world RvR akin to DAOC.
And here-in lies the issue. My opinion? This is the main reason that release got pushed back. Hopefully they'll come up with something to balance the sides & make open-world RvR NOT a gank fest with the higher population side dominating the lower population side.
Hopefully 5-6 months is enough time to do it.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
This is another problem which bothers me, how can u expect NPC's to fight as well as an actual player ? It way balance the numbers but i ca'nt see it balancing the actual fight, but anyway i cant see Scenarios not being filled at least not untill the server goes quite. At the launch of the game your probably have to wait to get in to the scenrio's. One more moan and that is do not like the idea of loot being dropped in RvR when pvping. I just think it will cause to many arguments, you can get loot by doing quests and pve ing or by playing in PvPing Scenarios.
This is another problem which bothers me, how can u expect NPC's to fight as well as an actual player ? It way balance the numbers but i ca'nt see it balancing the actual fight, but anyway i cant see Scenarios not being filled at least not untill the server goes quite. At the launch of the game your probably have to wait to get in to the scenrio's. One more moan and that is do not like the idea of loot being dropped in RvR when pvping. I just think it will cause to many arguments, you can get loot by doing quests and pve ing of by playing in PvPing Scenarios.
You guys are too much. Let's just cancel the whole thing. Hell, let's just never do team based PVP again since it can't be balanced. Let's not do PVP at all since player skills can't be balanced.
The Dogs of War NPCs are for the instanced scenarios only. The only other AI form of balancing I've heard of is for the capitol cities. Over time the NPCs in an enemy held capitol will respawn faster and become more powerful until they overwhelm the occupiers and retake the city which will reset the war.
As for player number balance, each side has 3 factions. There will be 3 battlefronts to fight on and factions can go to the aid of allies. So if an underpopulated faction is getting overrun, then the more populous ally should assist. If you're losing one battlefront, you can hit the enemy on another. Or you can just whine about the injustice of it all.
PVP looting serves two purposes. It allows those that don't want to PVE to have quality gear and it serves as an incentive for the timid to get involved in RVR and discover how exciting and fun it can be. Squabbling over loot is no reason to remove the feature. One of the main things they've been saying is that you can go from beginning to end with just PVP or PVE if you want. The quickest and best way is a mixture, but you don't have to do more than one if you desire. It may not be an issue anyway, depending on how they set up loot rights.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR
Playing: WAR
Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
QFT. I completely agree with your viewpoint.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
Out of all the posters on here this one really stuck out to me being that it is a tactic SOE practices in their MMOs.
Class balancing/ faction base cannot be fixed with things like this, what does happen with the dynamic that you implied is people buy extra accounts and make characters in order to spy on others (which is a idiot's way of playing a game).
I think the perks should all be "equal" and every loot table set up should all have equal% among factions (that brings in a whole theme that focuses on PvP imbalance then).
I hope I never see a epic hammer that does 2 x 8 million damage upon a critical hit in this game.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion,I gain strength, through strength,I gain power,through power,I gain victory,through victory,my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Loot in RvR, cant see it working, hope it does just cant see it thats all.
Six years with DAOC shows Mythic really doesn't loose sleep over the issue.
You can't force a player on which side to be on. If the game tried, the community would backlash. Also, players want to be on the winning side. Look at SWG, you could switch sides any time you liked without a real penalty. Here is another example. I don't know if it is just in people's head or if there is something funky in the coding with WoW. Back in the day before the battle group, you could take your pre-built alliance group into a PvP match and you were nearly guaranteed to lose. Take that same group in with their horde toons, and they are were almost always guaranteed a victory.
Will it be fair? Who knows, but going in and destroying the other side's towns will be a lot of fun.
One aspect of this that can't be denied is individual player computer programming skills. Warhammer can build the most balanced game out there, but one fact remains clear. No matter how smart the developers are with the game, there will be people out there that are smarter and will successfully hack the game. That is why I firmly believe there is no level playing field in online games no matter how hard the developers try.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
Amen to that.