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Analyzing the success of EVE
outlaw101
Member Posts: 351
in EVE Online
In this thread I'm going to try to analyze the massive success of eve
Some points to take into consideration of why it is a success would be;
Unique skill system
First True Space SCI-FI game
Never-before tried business model
Graphics on-par with todays top games
Customization
Appeals to a mature audience.
Take a vote at the poll and we can solve this together
"Don't hold breath about another KOTOR game coming from Bioware" - Chris Preistly
"Bioware is more intrested in pursueing development of it's own Intellectual properties"
- James Henly
Comments
All of the above?
I didn't vote because I feel Eve is truely the most innovative MMO.
I playded Eve beta and to be honest there was so much more that was discussed that did not make it into live.
The financial/business/stocks part of Eve was cut out due to needing to release. Also the dynamic trade route updating where players caused the NPC demand to shift instead of vice versus was also cut out. There were some serious business minds lobbing for a more detailed financial system than what is currently in place.
Anywho... I see Eve as the largest step forward in MMOs since... well... forever. I just hope other companies take a gamble and release an Eve like game.
Errr ... you are talking about Eve Online and not some other game?
Lets face it, EVE Online is the only sandbox MMO on the block that is still standing firm on its two feet. The vision that was first pioneered in UO would be dead if not for EVE Online.
UO - has turned it crap,
SWG - no comment needed here
Ryzom - in process of being closed down
And everything else, is every day hack and slash MMOs that will satisfy majority of the crowd. The reason EVE is so successful is because they appeal to people who want more then hack and slash. They stick to idea of sandbox and grow it. Since there is no one to compete with it is pritty simple to pick up people who are tired of killing Negafen or Onyxia for 5000th time.
[quote]In this thread I'm going to try to analyze the massive success of eve[/quote]
Its got longevity. But success?. When it came out it pulled 100k subscibers compared to EQ1 with 500k. Since then its grown to 200k, but WoW is at 9 million. The market has grown hugely and eve has not grown with it. This has resulted in its market share falling over time even as subscribers have grown. Its highly unusual to see 2nd accounts in WoW yet some eve players have 5 accounts just to support thier activities. Peak time you will see only 35k players online. Its simply not got the players who actualy log on to play.
[quote]Unique skill system[/quote]
Which is a huge turn off for new players. New players see the 90 million SP vets. They see that there is no way they can ever catch up with them. That they will always be second rate. Even if they played 5 years to get that SP the other guy would have 200 million SP by then.
Players like to advance thier char by thier in game actions. Yet there is nothing you can do in eve to effect this. Pay your subscription to advance. Its doesnt matter how good at gaming you are, how smart, how much you play, you cannot catch up with someone that has played longer.
[quote]First True Space SCI-FI game[quote]
Taken from wikipedia. According to the developers EVE Online evolved from a classic computer game called Elite combined with the multi player chat and player versus player aspects of Ultima Online.
We all played elite in the 80's
[quote]Never-before tried business model[/quote]
Not sure what this means. In the real world all business models get tried.
[quote]
Graphics on-par with todays top games/quote]
Huh you mean you buy a spacescene engine to provide some gas clouds. Then you overlay asteroid and ship models. Most of the time you see a small red cross for enemies, diamonds for jet cans etc. The graphics are far far from todays top games. Not suprising given the age of the game and the specs of the computers it had to run on back then.
[quote]Customization[/quote]
The customisation is non existent. You are stuck with their client. Look at WoW. Almost nobody uses the default UI. There are hundreds of user created UI's, thousands of components you can install to show what you need to see in a cleaner format. Its amazing just how bad the UI is. I see an enemy I have to click it and drag right into subemenus. Its increadibly fiddly and slow. I want to orbit it 20km I cant bind a keystroke to it, I have to go through the submenus. The UI and the customisation is simply the worst ever.
[quote]Appeals to a mature audience.[/quote]
Well the average age is 27, about the same as in my WoW guild. A notable difference is that 95% of players of eve are male.
Considering most of the above posters points have already been discussed in dozens of other threads and he just seems to like bringing up the same points over and over again because he has nothing new or original to add in discussions like this, I'll just reply to one of his points.
Maturity. If you think age has anything to do with maturity, I've got a small third-world country to sell you. EVE appeals to slightly older, more mature players because of the type of game it is. Its players are fine without having to be some big flashy character based off of showing off their new raid gear. They like the complex market, the PvP with consequences, the dark theme, strategy over hack and slash, etc.. At the fanfest, one of the developers stated it perfectly, but I'm not looking through several hour long videos just to find the quote.
"Its got longevity. But success?. When it came out it pulled 100k subscibers compared to EQ1 with 500k. Since then its grown to 200k, but WoW is at 9 million. The market has grown hugely and eve has not grown with it. This has resulted in its market share falling over time even as subscribers have grown. Its highly unusual to see 2nd accounts in WoW yet some eve players have 5 accounts just to support thier activities. Peak time you will see only 35k players online. Its simply not got the players who actualy log on to play"
Ah, name me other MMO's that have 200k subscribers? Yep not many of them, makes Eve a pretty big niche in the MMO market. I will bet SOE would like that kind of numbers for many of it's games. Also note their subscription rate is actively growing, not many MMO's can boast that fact.
"Which is a huge turn off for new players. New players see the 90 million SP vets. They see that there is no way they can ever catch up with them. That they will always be second rate. Even if they played 5 years to get that SP the other guy would have 200 million SP by then"
All that statement does is show ignorance of the actual game, After 2 months in game players are pretty competitive in pvp. Sure they have to specialize in small ships at first, but in 6 months they can be quite competitive in large ones. More SP just means you can specialize in more things, you can only fly one ship at a time in this game. So you just lost any reason for catching up.
"Huh you mean you buy a spacescene engine to provide some gas clouds. Then you overlay asteroid and ship models. Most of the time you see a small red cross for enemies, diamonds for jet cans etc. The graphics are far far from todays top games. Not suprising given the age of the game and the specs of the computers it had to run on back then."
Well in most games today, better graphics usually means slower performance. Eve, besides massive fleet operations, performs quite well on older computer systems. The next patch will offer better graphics and better performance. Can't ask for more than that, it is on par with most of the other MMO's out there and runs on most computers.
"The customisation is non existent. You are stuck with their client. Look at WoW. Almost nobody uses the default UI. There are hundreds of user created UI's, thousands of components you can install to show what you need to see in a cleaner format. Its amazing just how bad the UI is. I see an enemy I have to click it and drag right into subemenus. Its increadibly fiddly and slow. I want to orbit it 20km I cant bind a keystroke to it, I have to go through the submenus. The UI and the customisation is simply the worst ever."
Well gee you did find one valid point. They are working on the UI, but I do agree they need alot more commands that can be bound to a keystroke.
You mean they see the ONE player? There's only 4 above 80mill and 1 just shy of 91mill. 75% of players are at 10mill or less, with 50% of that being 1mill of less. Ignoring the fact that sp does not determine who will win a fight, just how many ships that person can fly, which does not matter in a fight, a new player starts at 800k, seems like they're pretty close to 75% of the population right away.
You've clearly never played this game. Players advance by their own actions. If you don't actually play the game, you're going to suck when it comes time to fight.
/me waves to troll.
Way to go for deliberetly distorting the point i guess trolling isstill an artform to some
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Retired from: Neocron, Everquest, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, RF Online and Final Fantasy VII
Currently Playing : EvE Online.
Absolutely made up BS....or just being a drama queen. One player, just one, has 91 million skill points.
How do I know? From EVE's own Quarterly Economic Newsletter
From page 4 & 5 under the "What about training and security status?"
"The average life span of an EVE character is seven months; hence it comes as no surprise that half of the characters have less than one million skill points. Another 25% of all characters have between one and ten million skill points, and the last 25% have more than ten million skill points. There are 191 characters that have more than 70 million skill points, and of those only four have 80 million skill points or more. The character with the highest number of skill points is just shy of 91 million; a loyal pilot that has been with EVE since the game began in May 2003."
The funny thing is anyone can kill him with the right set up.That's the beauty of EVE. Players with more skillpoints only have the advantage of posibly being more diverse with what they can do. Anyone can die.
"If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike"
Yeah, EVE has a lot of options, and yeah, there is some cool PvP to be had.... every once in a while...
but is that content or just stuff? All games have stuff.
I mean, honestly, what is the difference between grinding missions/mining and grinding a raid over and over again? both games have a grind, but at least WoW tries to mask it in something "fun" - killing big nasty bosses with your guild mates and getting loot
Because you don't have to grind missions or mining.
You can be a pirate and pvp/ransom ships.
You can be a spy and get into corps to steal their isk. (Money)
You can be a hauler/tradesman.
You can be a crafter, and make ships and various other things that people need for combat and the other activites.
You can be a diplomat for a corp.
You can be a mercenary offering your combat skills/knowledge to the highest bidding corp.
You can be a bounty hunter and go after players that have bounties on their heads. (Placed by other players)
You can get in a corp and try to take over the universe.
I ain't saying its the best sandbox ever. But ithere is currently no other game that offers these. And because of the way pvp is, it makes all these options that much more fun.
Yes, but don't you have to make money to pay for insurance and cloning, as well as your ships equipment, implants, etc. ?
Oh, and you have to wait for your skills to level. That's really my only real problem with EVE. I can't get better by playing a lot. I can't improve my skills by using them...
I just have to wait... days... weeks... months...
And I could make a list just as long as yours with fun stuff you can do in WoW.
I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm a big fan of sanbox style games, I'm a big fan of REAL skill based systems like old UO and SWG...
but I'd say it's the FFA PvP tha makes all these options that much more annoying. I just want to be a hauler/tradesman... but I get ganked in low sec space. Awesome. There goes my entire haul.
Is this CCP's number, or a guess? Just in my corp ventrillo channel I met 4 other ladies
Laura "Taera" Genender
Community Manager
MMORPG.com
What i'd like to know is why more men play video games than women o.o.
Would be interesting to find out why!
"Don't hold breath about another KOTOR game coming from Bioware" - Chris Preistly
"Bioware is more intrested in pursueing development of it's own Intellectual properties"
- James Henly
That's the question that every MMO PR department has been asking for YEARS!
Laura "Taera" Genender
Community Manager
MMORPG.com
"but I'd say it's the FFA PvP tha makes all these options that much more annoying. I just want to be a hauler/tradesman... but I get ganked in low sec space. Awesome. There goes my entire haul."
Eve does not have FFA PvP. It has a pretty cool system of corporate wars and security system. It rewards higher risk with bigger profitability. If you want the most valued stuff, you go to lawless space and risk getting blown up. But most players live in empire and nearby space, and make a decent living.
You just wanted to drive around without any risk and cash in isk? There's a reason why riskier routes are paid higher...
Immortals [EU] - Darkfall Clan: http://immortals-online.eu/
Read my "funny" DF1 blog: http://casualdarkfall.blogspot.com
Every MMO has its own version of grinding and grinding is there i feel to help fill out time. In eve one of the main sources of grinding is Isk gathering for thse nice virtuall toys like ships clones guns etc. And as with any MMo there are 2 ways of grining the easy way [mining mission running as examples] and the right way. The right way in eve however is not easy to find as its partly dependent n the player in question.
Some like mining and some like trading whats important is that you find a good earner thats not boring. And thats one of the problems of EvE there are sometimes so amny options that its ahrd to make the right choice.
Then we have the skill training times now i ahve to say 'come on, Months!!!!' surly thats a gross exaduation as for me to train Battleship to the top level it would take me 23 days....hardly months.
Anyway its true it can take a while to be able to fly yur chosen ship but in the end there needs to be a factor in eve that stops you going from point A to point X in one step. Other games use levels EvE uses skills.
And while i agree that to train for some f the stuff in eve such as tech level 2 guns is a chore everyone else had to do it too. my advice is for you to save up for some impalnts to boost your leaning [which takes isk of course].
Also you say you wanted to be a trader/hauler type of person well plenty in eve do so despite the low sec Pirates/gankers so wht you need to ask yourself is...
what are they doing that you did not?
Also a good idea is maybee to join a good PvP corp for mutual protection and buddy power tho you may be expected to at least LEARN how to PvP.
On a final note if you ever need help try asking in the forums here or at EvE-O
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Retired from: Neocron, Everquest, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, RF Online and Final Fantasy VII
Currently Playing : EvE Online.
That's the question that every MMO PR department has been asking for YEARS!
Because Guys who play games freak out while interacting with female gamers. No joke I ran a charity tournament for Warhammer 40k, guy brought his girl friend up and she was surprised we talked to her like a normal person. Everytimes she goes to the local store with her boyfriends she gets the cold shoulder. Real shame about that.
Hahaha... yeah, that is really a viable option.
Then we have the skill training times now i ahve to say 'come on, Months!!!!' surly thats a gross exaduation as for me to train Battleship to the top level it would take me 23 days....hardly months....
Yeah, great - and then only maybe 5-8 more months before you can train up weapon and equipment skills to be EFFECTIVE in that BS.
Eve does not have FFA PvP.
Hmm... ok, so then there are no suicide gate gankers, nor ore can flippers in noobie systems anymore?
I'm a big fan of sanbox style games, I'm a big fan of REAL skill based systems like old UO and SWG...
Exactly - REAL skill based systems, not some perpetual "no matter how little you play you gain" system like EVE has now. Asheron's Call had by far the best skill system ever, still does as a matter of fact. Just too bad that Turbine mostly abandoned AC and went with LOTRO.
That's the question that every MMO PR department has been asking for YEARS!
Because Guys who play games freak out while interacting with female gamers. No joke I ran a charity tournament for Warhammer 40k, guy brought his girl friend up and she was surprised we talked to her like a normal person. Everytimes she goes to the local store with her boyfriends she gets the cold shoulder. Real shame about that.
Hmm, I agree that they're related, but in my opinion you have it inverted: women aren't scarce because of how the guys treat em in games, guys treat women like they do because they're so scarce
When I played my first MMO about 10 years ago, guys were super surprised to meet me and my server jokingly referred to me as "the second girl". Gals automatically get cold shoulders or - more often - overattention.
Laura "Taera" Genender
Community Manager
MMORPG.com
Maybe it's because it's easier for single women to get a date then a guy and have a life.
Not sure what you mean by Unique Skill System. Lots of games have skill systems. Even the actual skills and attributes are similar to other games. eg. capacitor (Eve) is similar to mana or power in other games. Armor hit points, shield hit points, damage resists all have their equivalent in other games.
Its certainly not the first space sci-fi game. And the game physics is not based on True space, probably more comparable to submarine physics.
The graphics were reasonable but looking out of a cockpit at your hangar, star clusters, "gas clouds", and asteroids got a bit stale after a while.
"Customization" - do you mean character customizatiion?
For me the experience system (training skills over real time) was what I liked the least. It took me 7 months to train battleship skills to a reasonable level. I estimate at least another 9 months to complete the training (3 months for T2 heavy drones, 3 months to complete tanking related skills, >3 months for gunnery, plus targeting and speed). When I quit the game I was looking at least 9 months of subscriptions to just complete training for the Gallente Battleship. That is an expensive leveling system. In addition, I would have liked to have further explored the mining, trading, and freighting aspects of the game. Unfortunately, you can train only ONE skill and only ONE toon on an account. You really have to specialize early on in the game to develop basic skills in at least one area or you will have poor skill levels spread over several areas.
The other annoying aspects of the training system were:
* I probably spent 3 out of the first 7 months training learning type skills which do nothing other speed up the training process.
* you cannot queue your training, which means you have to log on as soon as training is finished to start a new skill or the next level of a skill, or you are wasting subscription time and taking even longer to develop your skills. Training times for a skill level varied from several minutes, to days or months.
One of the worst aspects of Eve is the 1 hour server downtime EVERY day. In my timezone this occurred 9 to 10 pm every night.
Nevertheless, I did enjoy playing Eve Online for several months and would recommend it to new players.
I am a 1 month old eve player, and i have to say i am enjoying every bit of it, so far i have a lil over 1 mill sp, would have more if i took advantage of evemon but i leave that up to my wife whom also plays, it apears so far that sp help you but they dont matter as much as it all seems for those whining about never having the sp of older players, if yer netted by someone using gear that shuts down capacitor, scrambles yer warp, and makes a field to throw the ammo your shooting off in another direction (this as far as i know is called tackling) your big battleship really cant do much but get pummeled by someones drones and torps and what not, dont think for a minute that becasue someone has 40 mill sp that someone with half that couldnt kill them you just have to use some strategy and some team members and you'll be surprised what ya can do.
playing eq2 and two worlds
Maybe it's because it's easier for single women to get a date then a guy and have a life.
Depends on the country you are in.
Hmm, I agree that they're related, but in my opinion you have it inverted: women aren't scarce because of how the guys treat em in games, guys treat women like they do because they're so scarce
When I played my first MMO about 10 years ago, guys were super surprised to meet me and my server jokingly referred to me as "the second girl". Gals automatically get cold shoulders or - more often - overattention.
Yeah, thats why the "normal" guys have to go for the Maces when that happens; or in EVE pod a corpmate's ship to snap him out of it. But yeah you do get the "Big Bang Theory" show as an example of what happens in a lot of cases.