I've read the arguments from the devs on why there'll be no official forum, and the arguments don't persuade me in the least. They don't even make clear sense, and I smell some hidden agenda. If you have customers asking for a service to enhance their enjoyment of a game, why do the song and dance about how you're not going to deliver? Give them the service!!
Other online games have forums. Sometimes, for some gamers, the forums become the social focus of the game as much as the game (and that means subscription loyalty! Monthly fees!). Forums enhance gameplay, gameplay enhances forum/social participation. I don't see the problem here, I don't understand the silly reasons they give, so I'm guessing there's something they don't want to talk about.
Until you spread your wings, you have no idea how far you can walk.
Problem is alot of people think the beta is there for a chance to play the game early and for free, instead of reporting bugs/problems or w/e.
QFT.
It seems that the goal of open beta these days is primarily for marketing reasons and not to identify bugs or issues before release. Flame me if you want but I feel that most beta testers in open beta are really there to just get a free sneak-preview instead of actually trying to improve the game. I do not blame them, however, as I believe the developer (or publisher) inadvertantly encourages this attitude by not giving testers any guidelines on what they should be doing.
Originally posted by fordiepie Seven years (it's almost 2008) shows a lot of patience and indulgence on the part of NcSoft--that, and the unlimited bank account (thanks to the first blockbuster Lineage that Jake Song created) that they opened for the developers...If that doesn't create a Wow-buster, what will?If TR falters, it won't be because of a lack of corporate support. There was no better sponsor than NcSoft.
Can't help but detect a hint of sarcasam.
The only thing that's going to kill WoW is another MMORPG by the same developer which is in fact better then WoW. Doesn't matter who brings out what, the fact remains the fan-base is loyal to Blizzard, not WoW.
And Blizzard didn't exactly 'break the bank' in the beginning either, although I am going to agree with you. All these big name publishers figure they can run an MMORPG like they do single-player games. A release, a few patches and the money starts rolling in; Blizzard was the only one who really caught on that you need to continue to pour money into it.
Let's hope NCSoft realizes this before we get to a point where the development team is so broke then can't even patch bugs.
I only presented what evidence is available. NcSoft could always release their own numbers--like Microsoft did with Halo.
Now, as to your recollection of WoW release--it is so different from mine! I had an acqaintance who made a very nice chunk of change during the early weeks of Wow. Remember how the sales were so huge and so sudden that they didn't have servers ready for the players? The brass called the warehouses and told the distributors to hang on to the supply until they could catch up with the tech support.
There were a few communities that had a supply of Wow boxes--and my friend snapped them up, parked them on ebay for a ridiculous markup and paid a few months rent from the profit.
I remember no disappointment on blizzard's part on lack of sales. Wow was a huge hit from the beginning. What amazes me is that ongoing sales are still so high. When I mentioned that Hellgate was #1 on Amazon rpg category, Wow is #2. And their payment card is #3. Where is that much-vaunted "churn" that's supposed to prop up newer games like TR?
Until you spread your wings, you have no idea how far you can walk.
Originally posted by fordiepie I've read the arguments from the devs on why there'll be no official forum, and the arguments don't persuade me in the least. They don't even make clear sense, and I smell some hidden agenda. If you have customers asking for a service to enhance their enjoyment of a game, why do the song and dance about how you're not going to deliver? Give them the service!!Other online games have forums. Sometimes, for some gamers, the forums become the social focus of the game as much as the game (and that means subscription loyalty! Monthly fees!). Forums enhance gameplay, gameplay enhances forum/social participation. I don't see the problem here, I don't understand the silly reasons they give, so I'm guessing there's something they don't want to talk about.
Could be they couldn't find anyone to administer it. Could be they didn't have it in the budget. Could be NCSoft doesn't want the burden of maintaining all those forums for all those games.
I haven't heard their reasons so I can't call them silly, but there are lots of reasons you don't want a forum.
It seems that the goal of open beta these days is primarily for marketing reasons and not to identify bugs or issues before release.
Wasn't there a small fee for participating in TR beta--and isn't that a fairly new development in beta testing? I read that Warhammer had 400,000 apps for beta. If they charged $5 a pop to participate--that's two million right there to help get the game moving.
Until you spread your wings, you have no idea how far you can walk.
Originally posted by fordiepie I only presented what evidence is available. NcSoft could always release their own numbers--like Microsoft did with Halo.Now, as to your recollection of WoW release--it is so different from mine! I had an acqaintance who made a very nice chunk of change during the early weeks of Wow. Remember how the sales were so huge and so sudden that they didn't have servers ready for the players? The brass called the warehouses and told the distributors to hang on to the supply until they could catch up with the tech support.There were a few communities that had a supply of Wow boxes--and my friend snapped them up, parked them on ebay for a ridiculous markup and paid a few months rent from the profit.I remember no disappointment on blizzard's part on lack of sales. Wow was a huge hit from the beginning. What amazes me is that ongoing sales are still so high. When I mentioned that Hellgate was #1 on Amazon rpg category, Wow is #2. And their payment card is #3. Where is that much-vaunted "churn" that's supposed to prop up newer games like TR?
Oh yeah the WoW release was huge no doubt, but they sure didn't get 9 million copies sold at release. Over the eight years of production a lot of their game sales have been ongoing, as is obvious with it still being in the number two slot on Amazon, but that's the point. If your MMORPG can pick up enough people to get the word out, ongoing sales will continue and populations will rise. Not on the scale of WoW of course, but NCSoft is no Blizzard.
Also, as a playful little note, I do remember being promised the ability to play a game. At WoW release, with the servers so full this was quite impossible. Delievered what they promised... pfft.
Also you can't count a game card that has to be purchase every three months as a game, can you?
Originally posted by fordiepie It seems that the goal of open beta these days is primarily for marketing reasons and not to identify bugs or issues before release.Wasn't there a small fee for participating in TR beta--and isn't that a fairly new development in beta testing? I read that Warhammer had 400,000 apps for beta. If they charged $5 a pop to participate--that's two million right there to help get the game moving.
Interesting... that might actually work since people seem so hyped about this game. Personally I would have perferred a Warhammer 40,000 version of PlanetSide.
Problem is alot of people think the beta is there for a chance to play the game early and for free, instead of reporting bugs/problems or w/e.
QFT.
It seems that the goal of open beta these days is primarily for marketing reasons and not to identify bugs or issues before release. Flame me if you want but I feel that most beta testers in open beta are really there to just get a free sneak-preview instead of actually trying to improve the game. I do not blame them, however, as I believe the developer (or publisher) inadvertantly encourages this attitude by not giving testers any guidelines on what they should be doing.
Agreed, they market stuff like "get into the game early!!" Doesn't exactly shout "help us fix this game before release", so I don't blame them either.
Closed beta was free, Open beta was free too, but if you wanted to preorder the game for $5 you didnt have to wait for an invite to get into open beta. The $5 was taken off the purchase of the retail version. So technically it was still free. Also anyone who paid the $5 and made it to level 15 before live got an additional 10 days free after live. The preorders came with a useless pet and a couple emotes as well.
Trust me, this game isn't going anywhere. It's not going to be a WoW-killer, it's too niche for that. I see it turning into something more like EvE, that has a smaller but dedicated fan base. That's not necessarily a bad thing, either. I much prefer communities like that to the "everyone-and-their-dog-is-playing" games like WoW.
I don't look at sales numbers when deciding the initial success as a game. The servers are full but not overcrowded, the game's getting generally favorable reviews, and NCSoft has a good reputation for supporting their games well. It may not be the most popular game on the block at the moment, but that doesn't mean it's not successful.
MMO history: EQ1 - 65 DE Wizard DAoC - 50 Dwarf Thane, 50 Dwarf Healer EvE - Amarr, Caldari BShip Pilot CoH - 40 Ice/Ice Blaster, 40 Dark/Regen Scrapper WoW - 60 Undead Priest, 60 Tauren Warrior LoTRO - 30 Hobbit Burglar Currently Playing - Tabula Rasa
Originally posted by Azanth Trust me, this game isn't going anywhere. It's not going to be a WoW-killer, it's too niche for that. I see it turning into something more like EvE, that has a smaller but dedicated fan base. That's not necessarily a bad thing, either. I much prefer communities like that to the "everyone-and-their-dog-is-playing" games like WoW.I don't look at sales numbers when deciding the initial success as a game. The servers are full but not overcrowded, the game's getting generally favorable reviews, and NCSoft has a good reputation for supporting their games well. It may not be the most popular game on the block at the moment, but that doesn't mean it's not successful.
I agree with you. Much too niche and will end up going the way of EVE, but at least I can stand to play this. The only WoW-killer, like I've said, is going to be another MMORPG from Blizzard which significantly improves the mechanics of WoW or is entirely different all-together.
*desperatly crossing fingers for a Starcraft adaptation of PlanetSide*
Trust me, this game isn't going anywhere. It's not going to be a WoW-killer, it's too niche for that. I see it turning into something more like EvE, that has a smaller but dedicated fan base. That's not necessarily a bad thing, either. I much prefer communities like that to the "everyone-and-their-dog-is-playing" games like WoW. I don't look at sales numbers when deciding the initial success as a game. The servers are full but not overcrowded, the game's getting generally favorable reviews, and NCSoft has a good reputation for supporting their games well. It may not be the most popular game on the block at the moment, but that doesn't mean it's not successful.
As 100% fan of this game, I agree with you completely. It's totally a niche game but it will do well (along the lines of EVE & CoX)
It's not ever going to have HUGE numbers, but it certainly isn't going to be closing shop either.
WoW is a viral phenomenon. It is impossible to compare that game with any other MMORPG now. There will be no WoW killer...only time.
As for this game, I agree that it will be niche and have a reasonable userbase. It is a disappointment for NCSoft, but that isn't unexpected in a market that is as screwed up as this one.
Ultimately, all it takes is a reasonable population to sustain a constant stream of updates and new content for people who do play this game.
So people who like the game shouldn't worry too much.
TR is a special title for me because I got involved in the community earlier this year by applying for a moderating position at the TRGamer portal, and even spent some time getting to know the great guys at Stratics. I attended some of the events such as the CuppaJoe interviews at WootRadio. A few months later I received a CB invitation and tried out the game. What turned me off about the title was the battle system. I felt as if I was a grown man riding a bike with training wheels. However, it must be known I come from a Planetside/CS background. Needless to say, the system catered to a different kind of player. Even though I didnt pick up the box, I wish TR and her community as well as the dev team countless successful years ahead, irregardless of box sales.
I included Tabula Rasa in a package of games I ordered recently. Currently working my way through them, and haven't gotten to TR yet, but I will within a couple of weeks. Currently trying to get into Hellgate.
I got TR off GoGamer.com when they had a $20 off sale. It's one of the games I picked up to test my new PC and so far it's my favorite. Even though I'm a big 360 fan and will be playing a lot of Mass Effect starting next week, I'm really glad I got TR and will continue to level my toon.
I was a big SWG fan for a while and TR is bringing back some memories of when that was fun. If TR had space shooter combat and craftable ships, I'd be in heaven!
Hope to find a friendly, casual clan to join so I can have some people to say "Hi" to when I login and maybe run around with.
Comments
I've read the arguments from the devs on why there'll be no official forum, and the arguments don't persuade me in the least. They don't even make clear sense, and I smell some hidden agenda. If you have customers asking for a service to enhance their enjoyment of a game, why do the song and dance about how you're not going to deliver? Give them the service!!
Other online games have forums. Sometimes, for some gamers, the forums become the social focus of the game as much as the game (and that means subscription loyalty! Monthly fees!). Forums enhance gameplay, gameplay enhances forum/social participation. I don't see the problem here, I don't understand the silly reasons they give, so I'm guessing there's something they don't want to talk about.
Until you spread your wings, you have no idea how far you can walk.
QFT.
It seems that the goal of open beta these days is primarily for marketing reasons and not to identify bugs or issues before release. Flame me if you want but I feel that most beta testers in open beta are really there to just get a free sneak-preview instead of actually trying to improve the game. I do not blame them, however, as I believe the developer (or publisher) inadvertantly encourages this attitude by not giving testers any guidelines on what they should be doing.
Can't help but detect a hint of sarcasam.
The only thing that's going to kill WoW is another MMORPG by the same developer which is in fact better then WoW. Doesn't matter who brings out what, the fact remains the fan-base is loyal to Blizzard, not WoW.
And Blizzard didn't exactly 'break the bank' in the beginning either, although I am going to agree with you. All these big name publishers figure they can run an MMORPG like they do single-player games. A release, a few patches and the money starts rolling in; Blizzard was the only one who really caught on that you need to continue to pour money into it.
Let's hope NCSoft realizes this before we get to a point where the development team is so broke then can't even patch bugs.
Now, as to your recollection of WoW release--it is so different from mine! I had an acqaintance who made a very nice chunk of change during the early weeks of Wow. Remember how the sales were so huge and so sudden that they didn't have servers ready for the players? The brass called the warehouses and told the distributors to hang on to the supply until they could catch up with the tech support.
There were a few communities that had a supply of Wow boxes--and my friend snapped them up, parked them on ebay for a ridiculous markup and paid a few months rent from the profit.
I remember no disappointment on blizzard's part on lack of sales. Wow was a huge hit from the beginning. What amazes me is that ongoing sales are still so high. When I mentioned that Hellgate was #1 on Amazon rpg category, Wow is #2. And their payment card is #3. Where is that much-vaunted "churn" that's supposed to prop up newer games like TR?
Until you spread your wings, you have no idea how far you can walk.
Could be they couldn't find anyone to administer it. Could be they didn't have it in the budget. Could be NCSoft doesn't want the burden of maintaining all those forums for all those games.
I haven't heard their reasons so I can't call them silly, but there are lots of reasons you don't want a forum.
Wasn't there a small fee for participating in TR beta--and isn't that a fairly new development in beta testing? I read that Warhammer had 400,000 apps for beta. If they charged $5 a pop to participate--that's two million right there to help get the game moving.
Until you spread your wings, you have no idea how far you can walk.
Oh yeah the WoW release was huge no doubt, but they sure didn't get 9 million copies sold at release. Over the eight years of production a lot of their game sales have been ongoing, as is obvious with it still being in the number two slot on Amazon, but that's the point. If your MMORPG can pick up enough people to get the word out, ongoing sales will continue and populations will rise. Not on the scale of WoW of course, but NCSoft is no Blizzard.
Also, as a playful little note, I do remember being promised the ability to play a game. At WoW release, with the servers so full this was quite impossible. Delievered what they promised... pfft.
Also you can't count a game card that has to be purchase every three months as a game, can you?
Interesting... that might actually work since people seem so hyped about this game. Personally I would have perferred a Warhammer 40,000 version of PlanetSide.
QFT.
It seems that the goal of open beta these days is primarily for marketing reasons and not to identify bugs or issues before release. Flame me if you want but I feel that most beta testers in open beta are really there to just get a free sneak-preview instead of actually trying to improve the game. I do not blame them, however, as I believe the developer (or publisher) inadvertantly encourages this attitude by not giving testers any guidelines on what they should be doing.
Agreed, they market stuff like "get into the game early!!" Doesn't exactly shout "help us fix this game before release", so I don't blame them either.
Closed beta was free, Open beta was free too, but if you wanted to preorder the game for $5 you didnt have to wait for an invite to get into open beta. The $5 was taken off the purchase of the retail version. So technically it was still free. Also anyone who paid the $5 and made it to level 15 before live got an additional 10 days free after live. The preorders came with a useless pet and a couple emotes as well.
Trust me, this game isn't going anywhere. It's not going to be a WoW-killer, it's too niche for that. I see it turning into something more like EvE, that has a smaller but dedicated fan base. That's not necessarily a bad thing, either. I much prefer communities like that to the "everyone-and-their-dog-is-playing" games like WoW.
I don't look at sales numbers when deciding the initial success as a game. The servers are full but not overcrowded, the game's getting generally favorable reviews, and NCSoft has a good reputation for supporting their games well. It may not be the most popular game on the block at the moment, but that doesn't mean it's not successful.
MMO history:
EQ1 - 65 DE Wizard
DAoC - 50 Dwarf Thane, 50 Dwarf Healer
EvE - Amarr, Caldari BShip Pilot
CoH - 40 Ice/Ice Blaster, 40 Dark/Regen Scrapper
WoW - 60 Undead Priest, 60 Tauren Warrior
LoTRO - 30 Hobbit Burglar
Currently Playing - Tabula Rasa
I agree with you. Much too niche and will end up going the way of EVE, but at least I can stand to play this.
The only WoW-killer, like I've said, is going to be another MMORPG from Blizzard which significantly improves the mechanics of WoW or is entirely different all-together.
*desperatly crossing fingers for a Starcraft adaptation of PlanetSide*
It's not ever going to have HUGE numbers, but it certainly isn't going to be closing shop either.
My wife and I are playing so +2.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR
Playing: WAR
Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
WoW is a viral phenomenon. It is impossible to compare that game with any other MMORPG now. There will be no WoW killer...only time.
As for this game, I agree that it will be niche and have a reasonable userbase. It is a disappointment for NCSoft, but that isn't unexpected in a market that is as screwed up as this one.
Ultimately, all it takes is a reasonable population to sustain a constant stream of updates and new content for people who do play this game.
So people who like the game shouldn't worry too much.
I bought it. got tried of the hack and slash mmo's out there.
This is the part where cameron goes berserk!
TR is a special title for me because I got involved in the community earlier this year by applying for a moderating position at the TRGamer portal, and even spent some time getting to know the great guys at Stratics. I attended some of the events such as the CuppaJoe interviews at WootRadio. A few months later I received a CB invitation and tried out the game. What turned me off about the title was the battle system. I felt as if I was a grown man riding a bike with training wheels. However, it must be known I come from a Planetside/CS background. Needless to say, the system catered to a different kind of player. Even though I didnt pick up the box, I wish TR and her community as well as the dev team countless successful years ahead, irregardless of box sales.
I included Tabula Rasa in a package of games I ordered recently. Currently working my way through them, and haven't gotten to TR yet, but I will within a couple of weeks. Currently trying to get into Hellgate.
I got TR off GoGamer.com when they had a $20 off sale. It's one of the games I picked up to test my new PC and so far it's my favorite. Even though I'm a big 360 fan and will be playing a lot of Mass Effect starting next week, I'm really glad I got TR and will continue to level my toon.
I was a big SWG fan for a while and TR is bringing back some memories of when that was fun. If TR had space shooter combat and craftable ships, I'd be in heaven!
Hope to find a friendly, casual clan to join so I can have some people to say "Hi" to when I login and maybe run around with.