Well I used to be in Privateers before CCP nerfed us and stopped us declaring war on as many corps/alliances as we wanted.
Waits for the flames.
My main was Agricola Augusta and the trouble with the big fleet battles is that they turn into massive lagfests. 100 vs 100 = a slideshow where you get informed of your podding over vent then wake up in a station 30 seconds later. Not my idea of white knuckle adrenaline feuled PvP!
You can join an alliance and get PvP on a regular basis, however like I said honest players can only saddle so many losses in PvP in those situations. If your alliance has a ship replacement program then that's almost certainly supported by an army of macro miners. So without the macro miners you're gonna have to grind that ISK, which means that by the time you're flying fully T2 fitted ships you can't afford to lose them very often.
This is fine, however CCP need to make the reward better, right now it's all risk with little reward. Although in Privateers our corp took out ships worth billions and split the loot it still didn't cover our losses. Some had to macro, others ebayed, some had alt traders, I was one of the ones that spent hours grinding missions to pay for a weeks PvP (If I was lucky). Then CCP nerfed us and I wasn't prepared to join some alliance deep in 0.0 hours away from the trade hubs where I made my money, also I refused to get an alt or ebay or macro so I quit.
Maybe I'm just not made of the "right stuff" to play alongside the PvP gods of EVE, but I'd rather spend most of my time having fun. After the war dec nerf EVE was 75% grinding ISK in the same repetetive 10 mission ad nauseaum, 24% setting up ships/trades and looking for fights and 1% PvP. That 1% just wasn't enough to keep me subed and I shouldn't need an alt to play a game properly.
BTW most macroers preffer a Hulk, and you can't fly one on a trail account so go figure. These are just my experiences playing, most current players would disagree with me in these forums.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
Well I used to be in Privateers before CCP nerfed us and stopped us declaring war on as many corps/alliances as we wanted. Waits for the flames.
Ahh so you were a PvP carebear then wanting 0.0 PvP in safe space
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Retired from: Neocron, Everquest, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, RF Online and Final Fantasy VII
I fly in a T2(tier 2) fitted cruiser all the time. I also fly a T2 fitted frigate alot. I win some I lose some. I have alot of fun either way. That is really what it is about. You can PvP the day you are hatched or wait years. When I fly ops in a gang i usually will fly a ship that is made too "bubble" an area where a ship can't warp out inside this bubble. If you like PvP you should definately try EvE. Obviously not everyone likes this type of FFA pvp where you lose everything if you lose the fight, luckily alot do. For the most part I pvp daily, yes I am close too an NPC null sec region. When I run out of Isk(cash) I will go do something too make more. Luckily when I do win I get the modules of the ship I blew up so this helps. Try it out yourself and ignore the folks smacking each other and the game.
I run a corporation for newbies from trial day 1. We help them to learn PVP from the first day. We kill pirates, do some pirating, and send empire wars on random corporations. We will now move to 0.0 with half newbies and even trial characters (with experienced leaders ofc), because we have got an invitation.
We win, we loose. The first thing you have to learn is dying. Killing comes up only second. Winning only third.
Newbies can PVP, if they really want, and vets can avoid PVP saying it is impossible to fight if they don't have the mood.
you technically could from day 1, but getting a weeks experience and isk (money) so you can afford if you loose your ships might be a better idea, its up to you. just don't fly what you can't afford to loose.
Originally posted by OuZi how soon after buying the game and making a char will i be able to actually start competeing in pvp? im looking for a new MMO but the prob im having is the pvp all seems to be for high levels or everyone has put so much cash into there chars it just isnt possible to win with out a year long grind for cash. oh and also i thought the pve was aweful here how much of that is there?
when I played this game a year ago, PvP is about 2 hours looking for targets just to see them warp away when they see you. But I wasnt a pirate so maybe they see more action.
The reason for this constipated PvP atmosphere is that the death penalty in this game is easiest the biggest in any MMORPG so noone wants to risk losing their ship and modules unless they are in a cheap T1 frigate with T1 equipment.
It is quite ironic that the game that is supposedly the one that promotes PvP with a relaxed set of PvP rules (or lack thereof) also discourages from PvP with an extremely harsh death penalty.
Yamota is giving a VERY pesimistic outlook. I'd not pay attention to the type of statements he/she is presenting since they are *not* the norm.
You can PvP when you're ready. Takes time to learn the interface, gain a ship, get to a region of space where you'll not get concordokken and it also takes time to identify a suitable target. That "time" is dependant upon you, the player, more then it has anything to do with the game its self.
Being a Pirate takes a hell of a lot more skill then flying to someone you want to shoot. It takes plenty of experiance that normally is gained through trial and error and/or through good mentorship.
Almost ever PvP battle I'm consists of a conglameration of tech 1 and tech 2 ships. Just because the t1 ships are inexpensive and generally easy to pilot does not mean they're fitted with t1 modules. More times then not you'll have pilots in cruisers with t2 and named loot.
The cycle of production in the game supports the hard penalties of failure. The entire game is built around this which is why you have may people constantly attempting to correct unknowlegable and onesided posts.
A negative picture can be painted of EVERY mmo so be wary of those, such as Yamota since his/her statements border upon slanderous, that proffess falicies. (False: 2 hours looking for targets just to see them warp away when they see you.; False: noone wants to risk losing their ship and modules unless they are in a cheap T1 frigate with T1 equipment )
If you are discouraged by a healthy Risk Vs Reward system then there's two games I should recomend for Yamota: Star Wars Galaxies and Checkers.
False? Slanderous? It is my experience and apparently many others on this thread. And if people think about it then it makes sense. If death penalty is extremely harsch, which it undoubtedly is, then people will be unlikely to risk their ships so they only engage in battles they know they will most likely win. It is just common sense and why the PvP in this game is tedious and boring.
Also there is something between the extreme harch death penalty of this game and the almost no death penalty of other games. It is a question of being able to balance the penalty of dying so to not discourage people from getting into fights but also not have such a low death penalty that death becomes meaningless and hence so will victory.
I didnt really play SWG but I have played many other MMORGS for the last ten years and the game that had the best balance regarding death penalties was Asheron Call on the FFA PvP server. There a death caused on average maybe 15-20 mins of farming/xping/rebuffing and getting back to the battle field. That is far more reasonable than the hours of farming, travelling and refitting it takes for a decent ship in Eve.
Now you're gonna get the usual "fly cheap frigs/cruisers/BCs and it's not a problem". Well any EVE VET knows that flying around in a blob of T1 ships in 0.0 ain't gonna cut it versus a blob of T2 ships. Also what's the point in having all these wonderfull ships like my Curse if it's just too expensive to lose? I'm sorry but a ship worth hundreds of millions can only be lost so many times by an honest player that doesn't ebay.
I agree with every word. You can PvP very early if you join a good corporation, but in the end ISK is the name of the game in PvP too. Flying cheap staff is great until 2 things happen:
* if your gang is T1 you won't do much in 0.0 as it's flooded with T2
* if your gang is T2 and you bring T1, eventually you'll wonder if anyone would notice if you wouldn't join a gang at all, or if you wouldn't shoot at all because the only good thing you'll be able to do is to die when your T2 equipped mates will try to get the job done.
If you're new, there's a lot of time till this happens, but plan for this beforehand and invest in ISKmaking, it'll pay off hugely in the end. After all, why would you even continue to train your char when you can't afford to use those skills in combat.
Train miner to be able to use Hulks. In a while you'd have enough ISK to buy yourself another mining char. Place it on your PvP acct. This way you have 2 mining Hulks that can mine at the same time. 2 Mining Hulks is a lot of ISK already. Then you can actually train or buy a carrier alt. You can either stick it on one of your accounts or buy a 3-rd account (which can be payed by GTCs as you'd have enough ISK). On spare chars from those accounts you can create cyno alts. That's it - you have an independent ISK printing machine And a capital ship pilot as a bonus.
good plan. and using isk to pay for gtcs is just icing on the cake.
edited: seriously, if you enjoy eve; then, this IS a great plan. the only thing i would add, is to eventually get your toons into research. a lot of prereqs to the science/research skills are lvl 5s that you'll already have, i.e. mechanic, engineering, etc. if you do a little research, you can figure out which level 4 research agents can give you decent datacores. you can have lvl 4 agents, with your skills at level 4, which will give you 5 reasearch agents, each giving enough RPs for 1 - 1.5 datacores/day. if you do your homework, you can have them giving you datacores which have buy orders for 500k thru 1.5m each (and sell orders a big higher than that); so you COULD get that 500k/1.5m instantly just selling to the sell orders.
so 500k * 5 researchers = 2.5m/day times 30 days = 75m/month
1.5m*5 resarchers = 7.5m/day times 30 days = 225m/month
you could always get 6 researchers, and get your research skills up to lvl 5 as well, for even more afk monies.
and, if you've got that second account with the hulk toon, you could always have that account train up the researchers, and not have to take away from your main/pvp account's training.
hell, you might even get a bpo on a future lotto. who knows.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
noone wants to risk losing their ship and modules unless they are in a cheap T1 frigate with T1 equipment.
I was actually laughing after reading that..
If you cant afford to lose your ship, then you wont fly it, true.
BUT, at least in 0.0, and in highsec too, you can make cash fast and easy. I myself use buy- and sellorders to finance my pvp and it works quite well. As i mostly play on the weekends and then dedicate myself into pvp i can afford to lose two to three tech2-fitted interceptors (30M each) or two Battlecruisers or one Battleship without having to go farming. If i lose more, i jump into my rattingship and farm for about an hour. Thats enough to buy another interceptor, or two if im lucky.
The deathpenalty just keeps PvP to a level where you think twice before engaging your enemy, which is a good thing imo.
good post ^^
Playing: Everthing Played: DAoC,AC2,EvE,SWG,WAR,MXO,CoX,EQ2,L2,LOTRO,SB,UO,WoW. I have played every MMO that has ever come out.
Comments
Well I used to be in Privateers before CCP nerfed us and stopped us declaring war on as many corps/alliances as we wanted.
Waits for the flames.
My main was Agricola Augusta and the trouble with the big fleet battles is that they turn into massive lagfests. 100 vs 100 = a slideshow where you get informed of your podding over vent then wake up in a station 30 seconds later. Not my idea of white knuckle adrenaline feuled PvP!
You can join an alliance and get PvP on a regular basis, however like I said honest players can only saddle so many losses in PvP in those situations. If your alliance has a ship replacement program then that's almost certainly supported by an army of macro miners. So without the macro miners you're gonna have to grind that ISK, which means that by the time you're flying fully T2 fitted ships you can't afford to lose them very often.
This is fine, however CCP need to make the reward better, right now it's all risk with little reward. Although in Privateers our corp took out ships worth billions and split the loot it still didn't cover our losses. Some had to macro, others ebayed, some had alt traders, I was one of the ones that spent hours grinding missions to pay for a weeks PvP (If I was lucky). Then CCP nerfed us and I wasn't prepared to join some alliance deep in 0.0 hours away from the trade hubs where I made my money, also I refused to get an alt or ebay or macro so I quit.
Maybe I'm just not made of the "right stuff" to play alongside the PvP gods of EVE, but I'd rather spend most of my time having fun. After the war dec nerf EVE was 75% grinding ISK in the same repetetive 10 mission ad nauseaum, 24% setting up ships/trades and looking for fights and 1% PvP. That 1% just wasn't enough to keep me subed and I shouldn't need an alt to play a game properly.
BTW most macroers preffer a Hulk, and you can't fly one on a trail account so go figure. These are just my experiences playing, most current players would disagree with me in these forums.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Ahh so you were a PvP carebear then wanting 0.0 PvP in safe space
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Retired from: Neocron, Everquest, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, RF Online and Final Fantasy VII
Currently Playing : EvE Online.
I fly in a T2(tier 2) fitted cruiser all the time. I also fly a T2 fitted frigate alot. I win some I lose some. I have alot of fun either way. That is really what it is about. You can PvP the day you are hatched or wait years. When I fly ops in a gang i usually will fly a ship that is made too "bubble" an area where a ship can't warp out inside this bubble. If you like PvP you should definately try EvE. Obviously not everyone likes this type of FFA pvp where you lose everything if you lose the fight, luckily alot do. For the most part I pvp daily, yes I am close too an NPC null sec region. When I run out of Isk(cash) I will go do something too make more. Luckily when I do win I get the modules of the ship I blew up so this helps. Try it out yourself and ignore the folks smacking each other and the game.
I run a corporation for newbies from trial day 1. We help them to learn PVP from the first day. We kill pirates, do some pirating, and send empire wars on random corporations. We will now move to 0.0 with half newbies and even trial characters (with experienced leaders ofc), because we have got an invitation.
We win, we loose. The first thing you have to learn is dying. Killing comes up only second. Winning only third.
Newbies can PVP, if they really want, and vets can avoid PVP saying it is impossible to fight if they don't have the mood.
you technically could from day 1, but getting a weeks experience and isk (money) so you can afford if you loose your ships might be a better idea, its up to you. just don't fly what you can't afford to loose.
Knowledge is Power!
when I played this game a year ago, PvP is about 2 hours looking for targets just to see them warp away when they see you. But I wasnt a pirate so maybe they see more action.
The reason for this constipated PvP atmosphere is that the death penalty in this game is easiest the biggest in any MMORPG so noone wants to risk losing their ship and modules unless they are in a cheap T1 frigate with T1 equipment.
It is quite ironic that the game that is supposedly the one that promotes PvP with a relaxed set of PvP rules (or lack thereof) also discourages from PvP with an extremely harsh death penalty.
Yamota is giving a VERY pesimistic outlook. I'd not pay attention to the type of statements he/she is presenting since they are *not* the norm.
You can PvP when you're ready. Takes time to learn the interface, gain a ship, get to a region of space where you'll not get concordokken and it also takes time to identify a suitable target. That "time" is dependant upon you, the player, more then it has anything to do with the game its self.
Being a Pirate takes a hell of a lot more skill then flying to someone you want to shoot. It takes plenty of experiance that normally is gained through trial and error and/or through good mentorship.
Almost ever PvP battle I'm consists of a conglameration of tech 1 and tech 2 ships. Just because the t1 ships are inexpensive and generally easy to pilot does not mean they're fitted with t1 modules. More times then not you'll have pilots in cruisers with t2 and named loot.
The cycle of production in the game supports the hard penalties of failure. The entire game is built around this which is why you have may people constantly attempting to correct unknowlegable and onesided posts.
A negative picture can be painted of EVERY mmo so be wary of those, such as Yamota since his/her statements border upon slanderous, that proffess falicies. (False: 2 hours looking for targets just to see them warp away when they see you.; False: noone wants to risk losing their ship and modules unless they are in a cheap T1 frigate with T1 equipment )
If you are discouraged by a healthy Risk Vs Reward system then there's two games I should recomend for Yamota: Star Wars Galaxies and Checkers.
False? Slanderous? It is my experience and apparently many others on this thread. And if people think about it then it makes sense. If death penalty is extremely harsch, which it undoubtedly is, then people will be unlikely to risk their ships so they only engage in battles they know they will most likely win. It is just common sense and why the PvP in this game is tedious and boring.
Also there is something between the extreme harch death penalty of this game and the almost no death penalty of other games. It is a question of being able to balance the penalty of dying so to not discourage people from getting into fights but also not have such a low death penalty that death becomes meaningless and hence so will victory.
I didnt really play SWG but I have played many other MMORGS for the last ten years and the game that had the best balance regarding death penalties was Asheron Call on the FFA PvP server. There a death caused on average maybe 15-20 mins of farming/xping/rebuffing and getting back to the battle field. That is far more reasonable than the hours of farming, travelling and refitting it takes for a decent ship in Eve.
My gaming blog
I agree with every word. You can PvP very early if you join a good corporation, but in the end ISK is the name of the game in PvP too. Flying cheap staff is great until 2 things happen:
* if your gang is T1 you won't do much in 0.0 as it's flooded with T2
* if your gang is T2 and you bring T1, eventually you'll wonder if anyone would notice if you wouldn't join a gang at all, or if you wouldn't shoot at all because the only good thing you'll be able to do is to die when your T2 equipped mates will try to get the job done.
If you're new, there's a lot of time till this happens, but plan for this beforehand and invest in ISKmaking, it'll pay off hugely in the end. After all, why would you even continue to train your char when you can't afford to use those skills in combat.
That's how I would plan for ISK making:
1-st account - PvP char, 2-nd account - mining char.
Train miner to be able to use Hulks. In a while you'd have enough ISK to buy yourself another mining char. Place it on your PvP acct. This way you have 2 mining Hulks that can mine at the same time. 2 Mining Hulks is a lot of ISK already. Then you can actually train or buy a carrier alt. You can either stick it on one of your accounts or buy a 3-rd account (which can be payed by GTCs as you'd have enough ISK). On spare chars from those accounts you can create cyno alts. That's it - you have an independent ISK printing machine
And a capital ship pilot as a bonus.
good plan. and using isk to pay for gtcs is just icing on the cake.
edited: seriously, if you enjoy eve; then, this IS a great plan. the only thing i would add, is to eventually get your toons into research. a lot of prereqs to the science/research skills are lvl 5s that you'll already have, i.e. mechanic, engineering, etc. if you do a little research, you can figure out which level 4 research agents can give you decent datacores. you can have lvl 4 agents, with your skills at level 4, which will give you 5 reasearch agents, each giving enough RPs for 1 - 1.5 datacores/day. if you do your homework, you can have them giving you datacores which have buy orders for 500k thru 1.5m each (and sell orders a big higher than that); so you COULD get that 500k/1.5m instantly just selling to the sell orders.
so 500k * 5 researchers = 2.5m/day times 30 days = 75m/month
1.5m*5 resarchers = 7.5m/day times 30 days = 225m/month
you could always get 6 researchers, and get your research skills up to lvl 5 as well, for even more afk monies.
and, if you've got that second account with the hulk toon, you could always have that account train up the researchers, and not have to take away from your main/pvp account's training.
hell, you might even get a bpo on a future lotto. who knows.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Well depending on how you build your character, you just need skills for the warp scambler. Its no good opening a can when they'll just bolt!
http://www.igs.com
How to get a Titan? Is it a good idea to get a Titan? (i'm new in game)
I was actually laughing after reading that..
If you cant afford to lose your ship, then you wont fly it, true.
BUT, at least in 0.0, and in highsec too, you can make cash fast and easy. I myself use buy- and sellorders to finance my pvp and it works quite well. As i mostly play on the weekends and then dedicate myself into pvp i can afford to lose two to three tech2-fitted interceptors (30M each) or two Battlecruisers or one Battleship without having to go farming. If i lose more, i jump into my rattingship and farm for about an hour. Thats enough to buy another interceptor, or two if im lucky.
The deathpenalty just keeps PvP to a level where you think twice before engaging your enemy, which is a good thing imo.
good post ^^
Playing: Everthing
Played: DAoC,AC2,EvE,SWG,WAR,MXO,CoX,EQ2,L2,LOTRO,SB,UO,WoW.
I have played every MMO that has ever come out.