Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Why do MMO companies think they can charge monthly for a beta game?
Netzoko
Member Posts: 1,271
This has been bugging the crap out of me. This is the only video game genre where companies are starting to get off on thinking they can charge a monthly fee for a game in beta still. It makes me absolutely sick.
They know damn well it isn't near a finished product, yet they say to themselves, "Hey, we might as well get paid 15 a month while we make the game, eh?" Under no circumstance should a company think they can sell a half-assed product and get paid while they fix it. To be honest, monthly fees are a rip-off anyway. Multiplayer games like GW, Diablo 2, and tons of FPS games profit who provide dedicated servers for FREE. Yet, games like Tabula Rasa charge an initial fee, plus a monthly fee for a game that should still be in alpha? Its an utter insult to all gamers that some people actually pay for this garbage. At least garbage is what it says it is. Half the features on the boxes of MMOs arn't even in the game when you get home and start playing, they add them months later, maybe never. False advertising anyone? Oh, well as long as they add "Game Experience May Change During Online Play" they can do whatever they bloody want (different rant, maybe later =/).
I'm using TR as my example because it demonstrates this well. The graphics and UI could have well been pulled off in 2003, and the end-game content is, well, non-existent completely, plus the current game has the depth of a spoon. All things are relative, so let's look at other games. It takes just as long and just as much effort to create an MMO as it does to make an in-depth FPS like, say, BioShock, or even a giant RPG like Oblivion or Mass Effect. A game like that is developed thoroughly until it is almost totally perfect. In this case, 60 bucks seems fair. Yet, a game with equally as much development effort/money, and 1/10th the quality thinks they can charge 15 a month when they game isn't even close to finished. It's unacceptable. I hate to say it, but WoW is an example of a great MMO. Want to know why? Well, they released a finished friggin game. I know that should be a given, but in this abomination of a genre, it really is not always expected. WoW released a finished game, and added on to it continuously for a long time simply on monthly fees. The amount of added content was beautiful. Even though they did add a dreaded expansion, they waited a good while.
Then, on TOP of that, they add some minor addtions and charge $50 and call it a bloody expansion pack. (Cough, EQ2). So, we pay an intitial fee for the development, 15 a month for new additions, then, wait, what? 50 more a year for some new quests and zones? I'm not sure what's more pathetic; people who actually pay for this monkey business, or the game companies who act like its okay to conduct business in this manor.
MMO's have gone down the john, and my rant is over. I, and others, are refusing to pay money for incomplete products.
-------------------------
Comments
I haven't played TR, so I can't comment on that game. The only game I found to be god awful was Vanguard, I just could not justify spending money on that game in the state it was in.
Everything else has been acceptable so far. I even enjoyed EQ2 when that launched, for a little while. I understand that these games are probably the most expensive kind to develop, and are extremely complicated and hard to test.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
The answer to your question is perhaps that gamers have massive amount of patience and the willingness to go on faith. Faith, that the game will eventually be a complete game if they just stick with it.
Look at the game Dukenukem forever. The game has been in development for how long? Yet if you go onto the DN4 forums and read the posts then you will see how long a game company can string a game base along on nothing but faith.
A more modern example of this is EVE. When EVE was released it was missing 60% of all the promised features and was bugger than vanguard. (Yes it actually was)
How ever we stuck with CCP on nothing more than the Faith that EVE would eventually become the game we had been sold. Well for some then yes four years later it did, for others the game that was sold to them and what EVE has become are 180deg apart but in any case EVE has almost became a complete game.
Thus the answer to your question, MMO companies charge subs for their betas because they can. They can because there are enough of us gamers that have enough faith in a game(s) that as Oveur (CCP) said “we can be led along with a carrot until the items we were waiting on are implemented”
Also that is one of the things that the WOW haters really do not get. WOW was a complete game when released, this meant that you did not have to be a fanatic gamer to get behind it and keep the faith; all you had to do was buy the game and start playing.
An so it begins
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.[/CENTER]
That's it in a nutshell (though I think it's more about desperation than faith). Major MMOs don't get released very often (even if free/item shop titles seem to come out every week), and many of us who have been around for awhile and played most or all of what's out there are willing to suffer through a bit of inconvenience as long as we enjoy what the game has to offer. There's a line beyond which things are just too unfinished to even bother with, but I'd rather be playing something a little buggy than nothing at all. $50.00 for a new game really isn't that much to me if it shows some promise, but the game has to be built on strong ideas and show frequent signs of progress for me to maintain a subscription to it.
Also, I really don't think the developers are trying to scam anyone. I think they're subject to the financial situation of their company, which usually relies on outside investors to stay operational. If a game doesn't launch by a certain time, that money can get pulled, projects can get shut down (as we've seem many times), and studios can close. That's the reality of swimming with the sharks. MMOs are big business now, not the niche market full of artists and visionaries they used to be. I suppose I'm part of the problem, however. If nobody bought games that launched too soon, games would stop shipping early. I just don't see that happening, though. Large studios that do their own publishing are the only ones with the resources to wait for a "finished" product these days.
-------------------------
for major developers this makes no sense at all to released a half done game.
however the exception would be a long running indy game when it's funds run out. I'm pretty sure the fanbase will typically understandstand entering into a payed phase.
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
Tabula Rasa is just fine.
No problems at all yet.
I've only seen 2 bugs, both of which have been fixed in the first post launch patch, and they were very minor bugs.
But as to why MMO companies "think they can charge monthly for a beta" is because people will pay for it.
Also, it makes sense. Get the game out the door, start making money instead of just spending it, fix things and add things as you go.
Honestly, if you haven't gotten used to this cycle yet, maybe MMOs aren't for you? What game has been released that was 100% good to go? Every MMO has patches, every MMO has bug fixes.
I wouldn't expect anything to change.
This is where companies get off thinking they can charge 15 bucks a month for a beta game: Because we allow it.
Just because it doesnt make sense, is wrong in your eyes, or for whatever reasons, doesn't mean that companies shouldn't do it. It's actually quite smart tbh... until the consumer says no, and the company no longer deems it worthy to do.
You vote with your dollar, period.
Hopefully companies will take a look at what happened with Vanguard, and decide in the future to wait to release thier game.
Why do MMO companies think they can charge monthly for a beta game?
Mostly because they're right. They can change monthly for a beta game. People step up and pay for it.
Chris Mattern
The development of an MMO is a long process which actually never ends. Unlike single player games.
The problem is that when one person says that a product is ready at least for release, you'll have another 20 screaming that the game should never have been released with bugs or niggles that they dont like.
There comes a point whereby one cannot make wild claims about a product that cannot meet such claims.
Personally speaking, I'm a firm believer that the MMO market has matured enough to have a governing body or set of guides (call them international standards if you will) to which MMO companies should ensure that their product meets. Then it can be endorsed by such standard markings so that people can see that they meet an acceptable level of quality.
Incidentally, "Quality" is a term that can be applied to a lot of different aspects of a product. It doesn't just mean any one aspect.
For instance, if an MMO box states that the game will run well on a Pentium IV 3.0 ghz with 1Gb ram and a 256 Mb ATI 9800 Pro, and the MMO designers have said that game content will have flying mounts, player vendors and other things on release then it should meet those standards.
Other industries have to meet such levels of quality, why shouldn't the MMO market have to meet an acceptable level of standards too?
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
I come from the shadows to answer this post...
Why do MMO companies think they can charge monthly for a beta game?
Because:
MMO = massive player interaction
massive player interaction = imbalances beyond single player games
player interaction + imbalances = whiny players
whiny players = patches and further development
patches and further development = increased cost for a game
You get my point. And then include development of further content and you have yourself a genuine money sink, covered by monthly fees and (unfortunately) often seen expansion packs. Single player games are a finite experience, where most likely beating or exploring the game is the overall goal. Multi player games on the other hand, are focused on continuous progression, which in itself is a major expense (unless the developers have forseen this throughout the development, i.e. developed an easily scalable game (Guild Wars)).
With Graphic Engines Moving Foward so fast.
A Game Could Be Out of date By The time it Was Put on The market .
Most MMo Are.
Take a good look At this game
The Chronicles of Spellborn
Its been holding A long time.
Might be this is the game for you?
First law of capitalism: whatever the market will bear.
(1) Quote," A sucker is born every minute"
(2) Having faith in game developers, Very dumb idea, You should have faith in yourself, your family, your mechanic, your accountant but not in a game developer. when it comes to game developers you should have expectations of what they will do or create, not faith in what they will do or create and if they don't come up to or even close to your expectations, see number (3)
(3) Vote with your wallet!
(4) As for paying for games in beta stage, ( see quote (1))
Beta games should always be Free, would you pay for a half finished movie or music cd?
even if we did pay for beta-play, what would they charge you for the finished product, I mean after you payed them to let you help find the bugs and glitches?
ALL WE WANNA DO IS PLAY SOME GAMES AND HAVE SOME FUN, IT SHOULD NOT COST US A FORTUNE TO DO THIS!
A great example of basicly playing for a beta game was Phantasy Star Universe.....my god that pissed me off beyond belife. i played beta w/ some friends on XBL for a month or so and we were stoked to play this in its finished product, with the final world open, the rest of the equip, and advanced classes(like they promised the game would have) so i rush to the store and pop it in. sadly for a game like this they still charge online when its really kinda not very MMO-like(and theres no free days either, u pay the day u get online)
i played for a few hours just to relize the games in the exact state it was as in beta....nothing was added.
in the end the compony basicly every other month or so slowly unlocked small parts of the game that shoulda been in there from the beggining, took 2 months before the first update when they unlocked the 3rd world they shoulda had from the start. i sold that pile of crap 2 weeks after buying it, it was the biggest waste of time ever, and drove me nuts.
i wouldnt say its worth 15 but maby 5. You are paying to use their stuff. The CD was a horrible expample. I wouldnt pay full price but if it has half the songs i should pay half the cost. MMOs cost alot of money and if its in beta i think there should be a charge.
Just one thing what mmos do charge for beta?
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day.
And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
Other than VG, I can't think of many games that I've played that I felt were in a beta state (maybe Shadowbane before then) so I don't feel the problem is that widespread. WOW, LotRO, Lineage 2 were all complete at launch...at least in the terms of having acceptable content.
Were they 'done?' No, of course not, all had countless patches and releases since launch which continue to this day...because MMO's are never really complete.
Monthly fees are not a rip-off, they allow the game to be run at higher levels of performance, more content, and with less irritation than any f2p or games like GW's. (Besides, if you add up the cost of GW's expansions over since launch you'll find the costs very similar to paying for a subscription MMO). The piper has to be paid somehow.
And truthfully, if you think paying 15.00 a month for what could be 100 hours a week of entertainment is a bad deal, you are playing in the wrong arena. I could easily pay 75.00 a month or more in sub fees...if there were games good enough to warrant it. As it stands now I'm spending 45.00 a month..... and I think I get a heck of an entertainment deal.....
As to feature promises in MMO's.... goals are good, but they can't always be delivered at lauch. Most companies have made good to continually improve their games (again, VG notwithstanding) so I don't think there's really any issue here.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It's that simple.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
To the OP:
You feel that a certain game is in beta, you do not want to pay monthly for it. Fine. Others find the game enjoyable, they do not even care about what is beta and what is "finished". MMOs are evolving, nothing is final, beta is only an artificially classified stage.
You have the freedom not to buy something you do not like, but you do not have the grounds to query the decision of others to buy that you do not like.
Beta or not, worth the money or not, its just your view, and frankly, no one here knows who you are, and your views are just as good as anyone elses'.
As for why companies can charge a fee? Because someone is willing to pay for it. You are not willing, but you are not influencial enough to discourage the company from trying to sell to other customers.
They are charging , because they can
Same as with let say other electronic appliances. Their actual worth is way lower than what you pay for.
But the people pay it - so they continue charging.
On the other hand - Some companies like TURBINE , see your subscription as paying for aditional development of the game content ( not just bug fixes as other companies percieve it)
This is way more acceptable
Because there comes a point where the publisher has to push the game to retail or it never will be ready.
MMOs are far bigger and more complex then any other genre of video game. If a developer were to fix every single bug before launch then the game would never ever see the light of day.
Try to get in open betas for MMOs, because an open beta a month before luanch is the launch game. So, if you don't like the game in the state it is in at that point then you will not like it when it launches. Or wait until the game has a free trial. Publishers are pushing free trials sooner and sooner so waiting is a good idea. Also, theres always a few major patches in the first month of a launch.
If you can't accept these points about MMOs or get mad when a MMORPG impulse buy burns you then well and truly MMORPGs are not the genre for you. Perhaps you should stick to the Online Action RPGs that fell compelled to compare MMOs to.
The answer is, "Because they can". People will pay to get in the game as soon as possible and the game companies know it, so why not get some money coming in while you are doing the final tweeks.
Because of this i will no longer buy an MMO until it is out for a month or two and i can read the feedback that the "Braver" players are giving.
I have no problem with expansions though. I paid for 4 for EQ and never had an issue with it, but i feel all those expansions were worth putting out the money because they were pretty large additions.
Its pretty much impossible for a MMOG to get developed and the devs suddenly stand back and say "its done!" The nature of MMOG's makes it that no matter when they release it, its not done.
Course I imagine we will never see eye-to-eye here since I disagree with your views of TR and EQ2. The past 2 exapnsions of EQ2 are so insanely massive you would have to explain the amount of content they added in terms of multiples of the amount of content that was there before it. As for TR, I have yet to play a MMOG that was released without the developers accompanying it with a huge list of stuff they wanted to add but had to release the came.
In short, trying to release a 'finished' MMOG is like trying to go the speed of light. You can get very close to it, but ultimately its impossible to do it in the conventional sense.
Blizzard didn't release a finished MMOG, and I bet real fucking money if you asked the developers that with no comments before hand, they would 'no' to asking "was WoW finished when you released it." A MMOG is done being developed when they close it down.
Plain and simple, until people wise up and refuse to pay for half-baked mmos, with fixes, patches, and missing content promised sometime in an unseeable future, the mmo devs will continue to profit off the sheeple.
I agree on the abuse...
They`re not Microsoft, they can`t just give us halfbaked games and expect us to pay for them.
But seriousely, what I find offensive is that they`re all "absolutely for free!!!" untill you play for at least 5 days, and then you get bugged with "you gotta pay to play". sometimes, when you`re lucky, you`ll be informed it`s a pay to play right after you made the account. -.-if you`re a cheapskate like me then you`ll have to go trough account deletion again.... if it even exists... some sites are like this, you can join us, but you can never leave us, even in death your account and it`s obligations still fills our database.
You`d have to scan the whole damn site and somewhere in a small corner with letters the size of a pixel it says "oh yea, after x days or level x it`s not so free anymore".
-.- can`t they just put important stuff like that in the first page of account creation? at least then you know what to expect in the sense of billing... rather than sometimes plain lying about playing absolutely free in the index pages.
Can`t we sue them for false information or something? I mean, tricking people like that some of those companies probably have lots of cash.
The fact that they do that in beta`s just makes it worse.
although I have nothing against premium item stuff they use nowadays.
stuff like that should not be done in beta`s... it`s kind of troublesome if you lose stuff you paid for, because the update didn`t work out or something. It`s not like all companies are fair enough to give your money back. they`ll just throw some other junk in the game and say "well, now you still get what you paid for".
Beta`s should be free untill they got something that runs well (technically), and isn`t hackable (with ease).
which means, heck, if it`s online and in a "beta" phase, it should at least be the 2nd or 3rd beta phase before they ask money for anything.
and ya, this isn`t the trouble with all games, but sadly enough, way too many games.
I guess only big companies dare to ask money straightforward. "because they`re ummm, pros. yeah, so they `re probably good and make something worth it... " or so people think...
well, if that were true, then I wouldn`t be playing so many freebies. They pro`s too, just with a little less time and money to quirk the game up quickly. in that sense I can agree they start asking money at early stages, sometimes way too soon. but it shouldn`t be a monthly fee, just ask a one payment purchase for the game. or whatever.
And seriousely, an online game is never finished, so you could consider it to be a beta forever. just like Windows. they always find something to fix or change, which can result in a downtime or a crash of all clients.
heck, some companies just say "well, you couldn`t play for a month, so here`s a new one for free". but some aren`t all just yet....
I wish I could get my money back for getting windows on my pc... all those lost weeks trying to get the thing back up and running.... reinstalling all software again... like that stuff doesn`t take up your valuable time...
Because there are a lot of stupid people who continue to pay for inferior product.