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Leave your individuality at the door
WSIMike
Member Posts: 5,564
I want to share a sort of "heads up" with people who might be looking to play FFXI...
To sum it up: If you want to play a MMO where you can explore, experiment and enjoy your own play style; forge your own identity where you stand out in the crowd and can still progress in the game, do not play FFXI.
If you're comfortable playing a game where templates and cookie-cutter builds are the rule with virtually no exceptions, you'll be right at home.
I'll elaborate...
I'll preface this by saying, anyone who has seen me post about this game in the past, will know that I'm a huge fan of FFXI, the game. In my MMO experience, I've never seen a MMO with deeper gameplay, a true focus on story and "purpose" in what your character does, etc. It provides, easily, years of enjoyment for someone who comes to it looking to actually play.
However, one thing about FFXI that, in my experience, is among the worst I've seen in any MMO - is the absolute, unyielding obsession over cookie-cutter gameplay.
Note... I am not slamming the game itself. I make a clear distinction between the game, and its community. I love the game. In large part, and with too few exceptions, I can't stand the community.
All MMOs have a "flavor of the month" trend in them - certain classes/builds seem to perform the "best" out of all, and so many people will play those specific builds, 'til the next one comes along. The difference is, again in my experience, in other MMOs, if you don't hop on the "Cookie Cutter Express" and follow each and every template to the letter, most times, you can still play the game relatively undisturbed or uninterrupted. There's still "room" for those who aren't members of the "Template of The Month Club". Though they may be seen as "gimped", they're tolerated and accepted.
This is where FFXI fails and has done so more and more over time; getting consistently worse as time goes on. It's almost paradoxical - the more content they introduce and the bigger the game gets, the more narrow-minded the players become.
Put simply - if you play FFXI and have any ideas of creating your own style, or finding some job/subjob combo that's interesting, challenging and fun to *you*... forget it. Leave any notion of indviduality at the door. It's not tolerated in Vana'diel. As some will say - and have said - to those with such ideas... "Good luck soloing". Or, for those who try to mask their obedience to the almighty Cookie-Cutter Mold, "I'm all for you trying out something new - but you're not doing it in my parties".
And what makes it worse in FFXI is that it happens on multiple levels... One level dictates the next. It plays out something like this...
A. The perfect job/sub combo, which requires...
B. The perfect build, which is required for...
C. The perfect party setup, which is required to...
D. Level in the perfect xp spot, which is required to...
E. Get "teh uber xp/hr" (all most people seem to care about in FFXI).
And that's pretty much the formula. One literally is required for the other. And if your job combo or build do not fit squarely into any of those steps, forget it. You're outta luck.
Are there other possible/feasible combos/setups? There absolutely are. Though those who are completely indoctrinated (read: brainwashed) with the "Cookie-Cutter" mentality would argue otherwise. Problem is, they require people to use their heads, set aside the online guides and templates and think for themselves; maybe use their imagination and look at the game from another perspective. All of which seems to be too much to accept - unless it guarantees them "teh even more uber xp/hr". Then they're all for it.
Here's an example to illustrate D from the list above... I was following along to the chat in my linkshell one day and someone made the following statement.. "I'd love to know what genius thought it was a good idea to make the Valkurm Dunes the only place you can level up to 20".
I responded with, "It's not the only place. There are other spots". What followed was a chorus of people telling me *I* didn't know what I was talking about, calling me a "n00b" and arguing that "it must be the only place to go because it's the only place anyone goes".
I simply said, "Not going to convince me of that, considering I didn't step foot in the Dunes until I was working on my 3rd job - for a change of scenery - and never had a problem leveling to 20." The answers ranged from "You're full of it" to "That's because you were playing with n00bs lol" and "SE designed the Dunes to be where you're supposed to level up to 20".
Like I said... brainwashed. And sadly, that trend continues, and worsens, as you get up in levels.
Now, not *all* of the community is like that - some do actually have minds of their own. Sadly, they are few and far between.
The FFXI population is mostly drones as far as the eye can see. You don't decide how *you* want to play FFXI - the playerbase dictates it. If you don't, you're called a "n00b", told to learn how to play and pretty much refused parties - or kicked out when the leader realizes you don't conform 100% to "Teh Uber Guide to Playing ..." guides.
Some will say "Oh well you have to do that because the game is such a terrible grind." Bull... it's a grind if you treat it like one. Unfortunately, you're almost forced to if you ever want to complete anything.
In closing... FFXI is a fantastic MMO... I *love* FFXI as a game and would love to play it as such.
Sadly, I can't play or enjoy it as much as I'd like... because the community, as explained above, has mostly reduced it to a number-crunching exercise, where anything that isn't guaranteed to put up "the big numbers" is considered absolutely useless.
Again, that's my experience and, from conversations I've had, others' as well. If you're okay with just hopping on the treadmill and playing according to online guides instead ofyour own style, you'll do fine. If you're looking for a game where individuality is accepted, much less supported, look elsewhere.
Your mileage may vary.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Comments
Thank you for this post, it has convinced me not to play the game. I'm glad I didn't waste my time if the community is this blind.
Have experienced this within WoW to a much lesser degree I fully understand what you talk about here.
Lol after reading your post i find that it is perfectly accurate in describing the situation of people wanting to explore different variations of play style and play choices. I however understand why this happens and as a player you should as well. I'll use my own personal account to show an example of why this is like it is. I was just starting my Paladin over 2 years ago, our party had me and another Paladin in it. We were around level 13 or so idk to tell you the truth. I asked the other paladin to help me control hate and he out right refused "I'm not going to until I get cure II" (idiots). To put it simply the perfect party set up is all in the players mind and in whose forming the party, in the party, what level the party is, and where the party is going. There are many places to xp at any level of the game, you mentioned Valkrum from 10-20, but I find myself xping in Korroloka tunnels during some of those levels. The Job set up is sort of a gimme, if you are a blackmage and sub anything other than redmage or whitemage BOOO you, for you are not helping anyone out and if you are lfg with a setup like that then BOOO you. But there are exceptions to this, damage dealers sub many things, i've seen DRKS sub ninja,blm,war,sam etc.
For the most part your right in there is little individuality regarding subjob choices and such, but there are reasons for that. And there is also no other game like FF where there are subjobs involved.
made me laugh though, funny how the truth is.
Oh, I know there are certain combos that work better than others, and that certain job/sub combos just don't work - the problem is, there are more viable options than many people acknowledge, much less accept... and it all boils down to "the xp", nothing else.
I'm on my way up for the second time and, the difference in people this time versus the first time is crazy.
Here's one example...
My first time up, I was playing War/Mnk - and was tanking very successfully. I'd be invited back to tank many times, or asked to take over for who ever was supposed to be the main tank, 'cause I was doing a better job. In a nutshell... War/Mnk can tank perfectly fine. I never had a complaint. Never a problem. We leveled up, sometimes 2-3 levels in a single session and we all had fun. We would try and hook up again the following night to continue.
This time around, I'm doing the same thing - trying to get War to 37 with MNK as my sub. For two weeks, at two different times, I sat in Garlaige with my seek flag up. I was passed up time and again because "I had the wrong subjob". "You're supposed to have /NIN to be tank". I'd say "I've tanked with War/Mnk in the past and it works perfectly fine. Didn't matter. They insisted, "You're gimped", "You're a MP sponge and you cause too much down-time so the xp isn't good enough" or, my favorite, and I quote: "LOL. War/Mnk can't tank. Lrn 2 play kthx".
On two occasions a party actually opted for *no* xp and disbanded after almost an hour of seeking "the perfect tank", when I was standing right in front of them seeking. When I asked why they didn't invite me, they answered because "I would gimp their xp". No xp was better than "less than uber xp" to them. That's flat out retarded.
That's just a couple examples. The Valkurm Dunes story in my first post is an example of how brainwashed people become about "where you're supposed to level". Seems the only thing that gets a worse reaction from people than leveling in the Dunes is the suggestion of leveling somewhere other than the Dunes.
How about someone in a party arguing with me once, quite vehemently, that you *need* power-levelers to get through the dunes as well as other areas; that it's how you're supposed to play? Why? Because they have been brainwashed to believe that. I've sat in parties that were *perfectly* prepared to start pulling, but refused without a PL.
The examples go on and on. People - with too few exceptions - do not think for themselves, they hardly ever consider any option outside of what they've been told "they're supposed to do"; even when those options have proven in the past to be perfectly viable.
The playerbase is entirely too reliant and restricted by specific job combos, gear builds and party setups. I've run into it more times than I care to recount. I have no problem with the idea that certain setups are more ideal than others for certain situations - but when it's to the point that they're considered the *only* option, with rare exception, then it becomes a problem.
And that's where I'm coming from with my post. Some people might be fine with that. For others, like myself, it could be a deal breaker.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
heheh.. nice to see things havent change at all since the North American launch some years ago (back when i was still playing)
Force Partying is a very important aspect of this game. 2 hours of "exping" can be ruing by just one death. This is why people are so bitchy about who they group with.
Some of what the OP said is true, some of it isn't. I have 6 jobs at cap, I've played since NA release. Average players fall into that sort of a trap, where they refuse to try anything new, for fear that they will be ridiculed by the people who have played for awhile.
If you learn your class well, and if you have a combo that works, you will be invited, and what's more... if you perform exceptionally well, you'll become notorious for doing something out of the norm. I leveled Ninja with Black Mage sub from 40-75. I did my research beforehand, and I knew that I could put up damage comparable to and occasionally exceeding NIN/WAR. I was the first one on my server to try this, and now I'm known server wide as "the NIN/BLM".
WAR/MNK is a decent tank before 37. At higher levels, it DOES become inferior to Paladin and Ninja. This isn't conjecture from newer players who want to complain about people not doing the norm. This is something that has been proven mathematically down to the nth detail. Recently, NIN/DRK and PLD/NIN have become commonplace in endgame, whereas nobody would ever have dared either of those combos awhile back, except possibly for a joke, or in the case of PLD/NIN for soloing.
I routinely level new jobs from 10-18 in Buburimu Peninsula and/or Jugner Forest. Only newer players, or old players who aren't really very good, and are stuck in their ways refuse to try anything different. I've brought many players over to my way of thinking. I will take parties to alternative leveling areas, and show them that they can make twice the XP that the people in the "accepted" area are making. I spend time to show players how to break the norm, and you know what? Once someone shows them the light, so to speak, they become perfectly willing to give other players the benefit of the doubt when they're trying something new.
If you're having trouble getting groups with your setup, start your own party. It may become frustrating, but if you are truly able to play your "unique" combo as well as you claim, then you will become recognized, and people will seek you out next time they start a party.
My blog:
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Strayfe/
Players of FFXI can find easily to a "trap" that exist in all human. Its the herd effect. You will tend to follow what the first person say and do. Because you do it, the next person will do what you do. Hence we will see what you just describled.
of course, you actually NEVER have to follow everyone. PROMIES can be done without SMN, and many fights can be solo.
just awhile ago my friend duo'd COP 2-3 as a bst/pld with a RDM. When the whole fight was suggest to be ALLIANCE or a super skilled 6 player party.
"who is the crime to tell you the fight is alliance?" - its the RESEARCH pages.
Hence, i can say because people follow "research" website, they set their mind on certain facts. As average human tend to enjoy simpliest hint infront of them then beyond them.
It is not a problem on happen in FFXI but EVERY frickin MMORPG. It doesn't suface more in games like WoW because its easier to "tell" while if you go into "raids" where unknown is strong, people WILL seek perfect groups describled by these "RESEARCH website".
Hence, i will conclude .... the fact MMORPG that require absolute facts are games with the greatest unknown. People who not willing to test out and take initative are the people who ruin the game itself.
none
I agree with fong all games have elitist single minded people that label games are just like soceity. The game is a great game and personally i wouldn't let somebody labeling me on a video game of all things get to me just shows what hes afraid of which is a label himself perhaps.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Well in my experience, it was better back then. People would see an odd job combo and think "well that's wierd..." but would group with them anyway. Sometimes it worked terribly. Sometimes it worked out fine. The difference was - they gave it the chance. Granted, people were still learning the game back then... but in counter-point - many viable job and party combos surfaced from that. I remember being in some really screwy setups that simply worked because the players adjusted or introduced tactics to make them work. The challenge, and the fun, was in devising plans to overcome those obstacles, putting them into action and seeing them work. If above average xp was the result, all the better.
Those days are, sadly, all but gone. Nowadays "uber xp" is the #1 rule, and all else must fall in line or be considered "gimped".
The MPK patch and the advent of power-leveling didn't help much either. Since the MPK patch I've seen more and more sloppy pullers who are either careless of or don't know about different mobs' aggro/social setup, etc. With power-leveling, I've seen players become lazier and lazier about learning their jobs and playing them well. I think that's one of the differences... before PL'ing, back in those early days, players looked at a death as a reason to change tactics, or change mobs. The end result: they learned to become better players (this is why I hate the notion that you need a PL to get through the low levels). Since PL'ing became more popular, any of the above obstacles results in "we need a PL". Heck, I've been in parties that were doing fine without a PL, but they decided they needed one anyway because they weren't getting xp fast enough. It's ridiculous.
But I digress...
With the exception of people, like Strayfe, who are open to and accepting of something outside the "standard", more and more people are rigidly and inflexibly glued to "the current standard" in FFXI. They're choking the variety and, to me, enjoyment out of an otherwise excellent MMO; reducing it to one of parsers, number crunching and "uber xp". FFXI is so much more than that.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I actually leveld as War/Thf from 30->37 and didn't get any negative responses. I even used a Greatsword lol. Now this was almost 2 years ago but still.
Again, there are exceptions. There are people who are happy so long as you can play your job and the party can get xp. However, far more people seem hung up on:
A. Getting the most uber XP/HR.
B. Having the perfect party setup in the perfect area
They can't and/or won't look beyond that to simply being in a party, killing mobs, getting xp and having fun.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
this game sure has changed, When it first came out I was hardcore addicted was a paladin got up to lv 73 and was having a blast everyone loved me. Glad I got rid of my account long time ago seems like nobody like paladin now.
PAL do still have their occasional "time in the sun", but it's highly situational - again, because people expect/demand specific character builds and party setups, so if PAL isn't in the "standard template", you're SoL. Same as other jobs.
Goes back to my first post - players have mostly reduced it down to template on top of template on top of template. If you don't fit squarely into that template, chances are you'll find yourself seeking a lot.
Here's another example I remembered of how blinded people can be by ignorance...
Was playing DRG (DRG60/WAR30) and was asked if I wanted to join a party out in Wajaom Woods (I believe that was the spot), killing the birds out there. I said "sure!". Polearm is awesome against flying mobs and, being a DRG's primary weapon, I should be ideal in a party fighting them right? Wrong.
As you might, or might not know, DRGs for a long time had this reputation of being useless... the whole "lolDRG" thing. I've found that overall mentality is a lazy one which translates into: "DRG doesn't fit into the current strict cookie-cutter setup, and we can't be bothered to use some thought or imagination to devise a strategy or setup where it does work. So as far as we're concerned, it's a useless job." Apparently, the party leader subscribed to this wholeheartedly and had an absolute (and uneducated) hatred of DRGs. Thought they suck, they're useless, etc. When I found out he didn't want to invite me I said "You're fighting birds... and you don't want a DRG?". His response, "I don't like DRG's and I don't want one in my party". I said "You're fighting *birds*. Do you not realize how effective polearm is against flying mobs in this game?" He said "Yes, I know. I don't want a DRG in my parties."
Needless to say, the guy was an idiot, like so many others, blinded by hearsay and obediently bound by the "cookie-cutter" mentality which for a long time had no love for Dragoons. However, the others in the party, including his girlfriend whom I was friends with in-game, weren't content with that decision and "nagged" him to let me join until he finally did. And I must say I think he was pleasantly surprised. I had to actually unlock and turn away from the birds at times because I kept grabbing hate - just by hitting the thing with normal hits. I routinely finished them off with a WS. He never quite admitted he was wrong, but I don't think he was so quick to dismiss DRGs after that. I don't credit him with it, though - I credit it with the others who finally got him to invite me.
Just another example of how blindly people will follow the "templates" or "cookie-cutter builds" in this game and reject anything that falls outside it.
Two-handed weapons got a nice boost not too long ago and so I think that DRG are now considered, at least, "Not gimped"... But when I last played, they still hadn't really been shown much more consideration. Too many people still stuck on the "lolDRG" mindset.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
"lolDRG" was started on Bahamut server by the LS known as Order of the Blue Gartr. Unfortunately, because the community associated with that LS is so big, it spread like wildfire. BG is the most elitist, "my way or the high way", stuck up collection of individuals in the entire history of FFXI. They, more than anyone else, have had major influences on the way these "templates" have evolved to take over the game. As a 64 DRG myself, I can tell you that I've fallen victim to the same thing a number of times.
Don't get me wrong on these accounts, I agree with you. People need to lighten up and realize that, in any situation, there is always going to be a party setup that works "the best". It's unrealistic to expect to get that at all times, and it's downright retarded to refuse to invite someone because you're looking for that extra 1-2k XP an hour.
The best thing to do in these kind of circumstances is to throw them on your ignore list along with spammers, gold sellers, racists, and general idiots. Find people who aren't mentally retarded to group with, and add them to your friends list. Start groups with the same 2-3 people, and do your part to go against the grain. When I start my own party, I always make sure that I try to invite at least one person who wouldn't normally get an invite. They're quite grateful, and in this way, you build up a network of friends. The game is far more rewarding when you play it your way, and refuse to be swayed by the elite crowd. Just note that not all endgame players are elitist.
My blog:
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Strayfe/
this game sure has changed, When it first came out I was hardcore addicted was a paladin got up to lv 73 and was having a blast everyone loved me. Glad I got rid of my account long time ago seems like nobody like paladin now.
When I was doing COP, I can remember so many people saying, you HAVE to have a black mage for that mission, or a summoner, etc.
We took great joy in proving the naysayers wrong. We played with the jobs we levelled with, the jobs we loved and finished COP. It took thought and strategy. We couldn't follow the cookie-cutter walkthrus. We had to think for ourselves. We lost plenty of battles, but learned from those losses and adapted. We LOVED it better because of it.
I know I love figuring it out myself, and I've never felt limited in FFXI. I play all jobs, and while some races are obviously better fits for some jobs than others, I don't feel limited. One of the best black mages I ever played with was a galka. I'd have to think that is one of the most inherently limited setups you'd see due to the low mana pool, but he was great at his job.
Any game is what you make of it. We could've levelled the 'correct' jobs for COP. We chose to play our way. It's still one of my fondest memories, and I think the others in our COP static feel the same way.
I think following the crowd is common in most MMOs? I briefly tried wow, and I remember the friend who got me to join 'advised' me that the night elf priest I had picked would not be very useful in endgame, and I might want to either change to dwarf or level my elf for fun and ALSO level an endgame char because of some very useful ability only dwarfes had. (May be off on this a little, but I know he felt I was limiting my endgame usefulness by my race choice).
Perhaps most people enjoy being led and having a walkthru of how to play a game handed to them.
i hated promys...
You certainly have been away for a while. Everyone loves PLD. I certainly take them over NIN tanks. You would still get parties no problem if you came back tomorrow.
To be the best, you must help each other become the best.
FFXI Character: Satimasu
FFXI Server: Valefor
FFXIV Character: Tamorae Fonteil
I hear ya OP. What you've described is a large part of why I quit a few years ago. Having to leveling a job I hated in order to have the "correct" subjob for the job I really wanted to level. And sometimes it would ripple outward, having to level another job I didn't like to be the "correct" subjob for the job I was leveling only to be the subjob of the job I did like. And so on. Hope that made sense. As you've said, I was screwed out of grouping if I tried the "weird" combos I wanted to play. So when I was party leader I always invited DRGs and SAMs if I could, since the poor bastards always had the worst time getting parties.
The very narrow thinking terms of leveling grounds and mobs was even more annoying. So many times I tried to get people to go somewhere other than the standard spots and kill something new for once. I had a hell of time doing it, even with friends and LS mates as they were still caught up in all that leet-dog bullshit.
Eventually I couldn't stand killing another crab or giant grub one more time and stopped playing. There were some other reasons I won't get into, but the elitism had a major role in my quitting. However, FFXI is still one the best MMORPGs out there and the community allowing for more player freedom would make it even better. It's a shame, really.
CoP is partly the reason for why ppl want to follow set "rules" in FFXI:
CoP is undoubtly the hardest mission series in the game, at least it was until they nerfed some of the fights a while back. Personally, I gave up CoP on mission 2-5 after having tried it several times (pre-nerf) with no success. I don't know any players who made it on first attempt, and if what I hear is true, then this is not the hardest fight in the series.
If you KNOW that a certain setup works, at least that it did for others, and you have the choice between the "right" and experimental setups, it's pretty obvious what the outcome will be. This doesn't only apply for CoP 2-5, but this mission is a very good example. It takes a lot of time to set up a group, get moving, and actually reach the place, and the chance for failure is/was high no matter the setup.
OP, I'm a little torn in this matter, though not that much, really. A part of me agree with some of your arguments, heck, I have a DRG 58 or 59 which will never see the light again, because of the problems with getting parties. But I also agree with the community: as long as there are options for them to choose between when the parties are set up, why on earth should the rest of the party risk lousy exp, wipes, whatever, just because one person wants to experiment, or insists on playing what they (correctly or not) regards as a ineffective, or maybe even completely failed, combo? Not understanding this, is actually egoistic, sorry. SE made it damn hard, or at least slow, to advance in this game, and it's completely understandable that players wants the quickest progress. Don't forget that several of those you party with, already have a lvl 75 job - they know what works and what they wants. Following a pattern that works, both based on own experience, what they've learned from others, etc, doesn't mean they are "brainwashed", as you say, which is quite a stupid argument.
You have to rely on other players in MMOs, and in FFXI much, much more than any other games I've ever tried. So imo, you can really say the game and it's community is one. How you can hate the community and love the game, based on this, is a complete mystery to me. I don't understand why you stayed all these years - sure, it may be worse than it was, but nothing changed over night. Actually, I suspect that one single situation has triggered these complaints.
Just to be clear about it: in most games i really, really HATE those elitist pigs who expect you to always follow their rule. But FFXI is completely different, it's more about game mechanics than the players. Standing on the same spot hours after hours, just to get that one extra level, maybe with their 4th or 7th job, you really can't blaim them for cutting it down to as effective as possible.
Personally, I think the FFXI community is the very best out there. Sure, I've had a few issues with idiots, but they are everywhere and can't be avoided. And I've never felt I had to "leave my individuality at the door", actually quite the opposite.
I played FFXI for about 2 years and really enjoyed it. That being said I really can't debate what the OP is saying. The game mechanics are really set up so that people need to max the amount of XP per hour they get. Because there is really only one effective combo for job/sub job for each class then people tend to dismiss anything that isn't those normal combo's. Another thing that I really hated was that pretty much every character of every class at the same lvl's always had the same exact gear. There was really no customization. In spite of the problems with this game it will however always be one of my favorites.
-Currently looking forward to FFXIV
-Currently playing EvE and Global Agenda
If game designers would make it so that almost any combination of players classes or types could achieve the goal, (or at least, variances aren't severely punished) then you woundn't run into this problem...but that's not the way the world works....
I've played a lot of healers in my day just to ensure regular group invites since I hate working to find a group.
Who the hell are you, and why should I care?
Congrats! You are a victim of Trollstar!
If its that bad in FFXI, then the developers have failed making it. One of the things that every levelbased mmo MUST have is balanced classes, else people get left out when they select the 'wrong' class as a nooblet. Very few mmo's manage this though for some reason. When I think about it, the only mmo I've played that managed to balance the classes quite good is WoW...Sad, but true.
Even my favourite mmo of all time, Anarchy Online, is horribly unbalanced. The devs sit with their thumb up their ass and say the classes are balanced, the players say they aint. My class there was engineer. We used to be feared in pvp, but now we are just a 'cc the pet and kill that gimp'. Infact, dont bother cc'ing the pet, just kill the engineer cause the pet have extreme trouble pathfinding its way to its target, even when its a straight line to it or even standing RIGHT IN FRONT OF IT!!!, with nothing in its way except shitty coding.
One funny thing in AO is that nanotechnicians used to be the laughingstock of that game. Nowadays they are feared for a nuke that hits 3 times bypassing all shields, ac's and reflects taking 70-80% of its targets life in one cast and castable every hmm..7th sec I think it was. Two nt's working in tandem is the new killsquad killing left and right and are almost unstoppable. And the devs call em balanced...balanced my ass. Well, when nt's got that, and engineers got yet another stealthnerf is when I left the game. Had enough of developers thinking out their ass and destroying what was once a great game.
Anyway, sorry for dropping out of topic and rambling a little. But my point still ring true in my opinion. When your success in an mmo depends on cookiecutter builds, the devs have failed.
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Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.