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The Story Behind Grinding
Strayfe
Member UncommonPosts: 199
I just finished a blog post, that I thought I might share with the forums too. It contains my thoughts on exactly where grinding came from, and, though I didn't originally intend to advertise it, a friend told me that I should, so here it is. Tell me your thoughts 
www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Strayfe/112007/793_Whence-Cometh-The-Grind-A-Tale-of-Two-Formats
Comments
When I go hiking I repeatedly put one foot in front of the other for hours on end. Is that a grind?
When I play WoW and farm reputation kill the same mobs over and over. Is that a grind?
The answer to the first quest ion is no. The answer to the second is yes.
So what is the difference? The difference is where I am going and what I see along the way. And possibly the endorphins that get generated.
I suppose to some...breathing is a grind.
My interpretation of a grind is a repetative task that I do NOT like doing. The best games are the ones where leveling does not seem like a task. its just fun. However, thats also the reason why your first characters are always your favorite, because after youve been in a game for a while, leveling up another doesnt seem to be as much fun as it was the first time.
Torrential
Torrential: DAOC (Pendragon)
Awned: World of Warcraft (Lothar)
Torren: Warhammer Online (Praag)
Very true the first char is always the most fun then the second char sucks until higher lvls when your main char can give your second char a bunch of good items so that pwn ppl near your lvl easily
KSEA
KSEA players often seek out PVP in a game, but they are looking to socialize with and form alliances with other players who are interested in doing the same. They often seek out guilds or clans that organize formal PVP events, or work on group strategies and tactics.
Breakdown: Achiever 53.33%, Explorer 60.00%, Killer 80.00%, Socializer 66.67%
I suppose the 'grind' could be interpreted as the 'hurry up and have fun attitude'(group of players) the game will be fun when you reach X level. The rush through content is an attempt to get to the destination instead of enjoying the ride. The argument has been made since MMO's started. Hard Core Players vs Uber l337 Raiders vs Role Players vs Casual players, and so forth.
A lot of it is the personality of the player(s), some people want to completely tear through the game and garnish as much power/stuff/level/cash as possible, then you have those that just want a nice gingerly pace of smelling the roses and crafting there way to Grandmaster Basket Weaver.
My philosophy has been that as long as people are playing within the rules they can play at whatever pace they want, even though I'm more of a 'casual' player, as cliche as that seems to be becoming.
I do believe a community can effect a game and at times it seems that the more hard core players are the ones that cause developers to rush content, but again, as long as they play within the rules, pay their membership to play, who am I to tell them otherwise.
The Old Timers Guild
Laid back, not so serious, no drama.
All about the fun!
www.oldtimersguild.com
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. - Jef Mallett
Damnation those elderly people have bots (sometimes called Iron Lungs)that are breathing for them. Those lazy sonsof$*%# need to banned from the old folks home until they learn that they have to breathe on their own just like us young folks. That will teach them!!!!!
If you are not being responded to directly, you are probably on my ignore list.
It should be considered a psychological phenomenon rather than one of gameplay. But I shouldn't say that all of it is in our heads, rather there are parts of gameplay that are uneventful and easily 'botted' when it comes down to it. Richard Garriott pointed out the DPS match that games have become, but oddly his game falls into the same pit of DPS-whack-a-mole as well. So, even when a developer recognizes the flaw, it doesn't mean the developer can avoid it either.
My point is this, grind comes as two parts: psychological and a consequence of linear gameplay. The psychological part is often due to players not wanting to give up a game session until they attain *their* goal, which could include clearing up quests, reaching a certain level, getting to a certain place, and what not. The gameplay portion is due to that most game developers are not former MUD developers. Why is this distinction important? Because from the context of singeplayer games, it's easy to mark down goals, things developers want to put into the game, how the story will flesh out, the art direction, the technology, and so on. An MMORPG has some of these features, but it has one thing that no singleplayer game will ever have: Environmental Persistence. That's why most MMORPG developers fail to capture what many MUD administrators and developers have captured in various MUD codebases for better on two decades. When a good MUD is developed, there is a degree of persistence that is relatively static, like a singleplayer game, but with variation based on a number of variables decided upon by the MUD developer (time based or event based), allowing for some certainty in gameplay that makes players comfortable (like singleplayer games do as well), but provide the variety that MMORPG players demand (what singleplayer games can *never* achieve).
All that being said, the coding part of the grind can be avoided by recognizing that environmental persistence is *essential* for any MMORPG. Whether that persistence is derived directly from player actions (Player X kills off "The Boss of N", so no one else can kill it anymore...) or whether it's event based on the NPCs and the virtual environment itself (Moon cycles, migration of NPCs [Emergence]). Ultimately, when MMORPG developers stop being singleplayer game developers and act like MUD developers, they may have a chance to achieve a greater pull of players than they currently are seeing.
Until then, the MMO market can be considered in hibernation.
-- Brede
Why is the second character oh so boring? Because the first character you were still learning the game. Now that you know how to play the game with the second character, the game is nothing more than a forced tutorial. In other words, a grind.
But my in case, the game feels like a forced tutorial even for my first character. I can figure out most MMOs in the first 5 minutes. The next 20 hours is merely an experience in boredom while waiting to get to the features advertised on the box, but I'll never get to because I get tired and stop playing because the game is just like every other game for 1-20.
Very well written.
I suppose that I feel that there is no where to go on most MMORPGs. I don't mean in a sense of walking, but in a sense of making the game progress. The fact that if I grind in an FF game, that it will not only get me that boss, but it will give me another piece of that story line and the unknown you happen upon. WHen you grind for an MMO, yuo are just grinding, but for what? Just another lvl, and, in most cases, it doesn't change anything in the game except that you can fight just another type of mob.
lol nice Sublime reference
I always thought FF1 had the first real grind...
Me too, it was the original grind game, IMO. But it wasn't the kind of grinding of today. Back then, you unlocked all kinds of things with grinding and it never got boring. Airships, boats...
lol
I love the grind.
I actually sub to an asian mmorpg just to grind.
This may sound funny but its true. No I dont do it for the thrill, its because its relaxing. I have more than full course load at university and I dont like to get smashed.. it takes up too much time. So how else can I relax? I dont own a TV, and Im not that much into reading books.
I grind. I sit there and I let my brain relax while I still feel some minute sense of accomplishment because after all.. and I accomplishing something.
Often times I'll level a character up, then start a new one... level one up, start a new one. Depending on the game Ive sometimes been able to get 15-20 bucks or so for the character, sometimes more, sometimes I cant get anything. But I dont care, I dont grind to progress, nor to do I do it for the money. Its like meditiating for me.
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
Oh gosh,
Fine, theres a market there. But, can we at least have some MMO's for those of us who enjoy thinking while we play games? And, as weird as it may seem, there are some of us who do actually like to be *gasp* challenged when we play a game...