I don't see why people have a problem with non-subscription payment models. I know that's what everyone is used to and comfortable with but times change. Just because there are a lot of generic Eastern grinder games that use this, it doesn't mean that any game with no sub is going to be the same.
Would people start dumping AoC or WAR if they announced a similar plan?
In so many pre-release MMOs I see people asking if they will have a subscription and then being disappointed that they do.
Here's a payment plan I'd like to see:
a) Pay nothing and get the basic game - so everyone can play.
b) Buy extras, up to a cap limit where they are free after that.
c) Pay a sub equal to the cap limit and get unlimited extras.
The extras would have to take the form of item efficiency rather than consumables so the subscription-payers don't just get an unlimited stack of health potions.
Off-topic, I completely agree that STO is a lame duck based on what little we've seen of it so far and it will fit right in with every other Star Trek game out there.
Off-topic, I completely agree that STO is a lame duck based on what little we've seen of it so far and it will fit right in with every other Star Trek game out there.
So... will there be ship interiors? Or is that still not going to happen?
I won't play unless I can live in my ship and invite friends to hang out with me there (and vice versa). Otherwise we're just playing spaceships instead of people.
- Phos
AAH! A troll fire! Quick, pour some Kool-Aid on it!!!
The way PE/Daron Stinnett are going.... they're making McQuaid and Vanguard/Sigil look like choirboys by comparison. At least Vanguard got released. G&H didn't even make it to that (I beta'd it, and it was only mildly entertaining, and held no great 'WOW! I WANT TO KEEP PLAYING!' factor for me).
STO is definitely in the wrong hands. It should have been given to someone who could have made it a blockbuster of a game, one that could tap millions of subs.
Daron's LAME excuse about 200 bucks a year being too much (180 anyone 12x15) for most people is patently ridiculous. A movie costs 10 bucks to see these days, for 2 hours of fun. At 5 bucks an hour (not including drinks/popcorn/candy), its still fairly 'cheap' compared to say, seeing a baseball game or football game. If a casual player even plays 4 hours a week, 30 hours a month... that's a whopping 50 cents an hour of entertainment time. 10 times cheaper than a movie.
His response is a cover for the fact that they're having these discussions for another reason: They'll release a bare bones game with nothing in it, and microtransaction people to death with content additions.
I suspect a 'casual' player would end up paying MORE than 15 bucks a month in microtransactions if they want to experience the world and 'keep up with the Joneses'. So... what's that about 'sustainable'?
No, this is PE thinking that they can release a stinker of a game, and make money off the 'candy' at the concession stand, then escape before the gates close on it with their bags of loot.
personally i am a fan of Star Trek, and i enjo the occasional FTP MMO myself (mainly jut GW) but i do not support this dramafest of a game that they are "appearently" making. Ive been following this game sort of quietly since the beginning and i truly feel sorry for the gamers for having to be put through this torture. I mean the STO.net drama stuff thats been going on in their forums, lack of good dev updates, and now this...seriously i agree they should have shut this down when they decided to pull G&H cuu really they arent getting anywhere with the gamers side of the community, not the ones that cling to them on their forums, but the ones here that are honest about their opinions, and are not brainwashed. The ones who realize that making a successful game is not about obtaining a IP that is worldwide known and loved. To me, they are spitting on everything i ever loved in my life growing up sbout Star Trek.
Just say no to microtransaction games. As said before the reason developers are jumping on this bandwagon is because they will make much more money than a subscription game. You will be nickel and dimed for everything and you will pay out the nose for items and coin and content to keep up with everyone else. It's a corrupt philosophy that destroys the basic tenet of a fair and level palying field.
So... will there be ship interiors? Or is that still not going to happen? - Phos
Daron's answer to those questions, "There will be plenty of interiors."
But no response or clarification has been included for player ships.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
The current payment model is adequate. No reason to dumb the game down so that people can afford it. What is next, ingame advertising? Are we gonna see pepsi commercials in the turbo lifts? Or do I have to pay 5 bucks extra to get a phaser rifle upgrade?
You say you are making a triple A title. Well that is $15 bucks a month from my experience. I have played SWG, WOW, EQ2, COH, MxO, DAOC and now LOTRO. If you want to start using some gimmicky payment model to subsidize low income players then you are not making a triple a game.
If you are making a game that you do not feel people are willing to pay $15 bucks a month for, then you are not making a triple A game. And you may point to other payment models used by other games. But americans are not the korean mmo market, and those are not triple A games.
that wraps it up very completely
a shame this game seems dead before it even hits the ground - all due to leadership issues
a shame this game seems dead before it even hits the ground - all due to leadership issues
Well to be honest I'm glad it's dead. If this was gonna be a good game, I would get it, but no mmorpg based on a popular franchise can be good. WOW wasn't, SWG wasn't, and this won't be. Why? Because companies only make these games because they're already popular, so a stable income is guaranteed from all the idiot fanboys who would even play the 'let's kick you in the balls' game as long as it was labelled Star Trek.
Daron Stinnett: "I personally think that MMOs need to be a better deal. Paying $200/year is a good deal for some but I don't think that is sustainable for the category and certainly rules out a lot of people who don't have the time to get enough value out of that expense. "
Now we know the truth. Daron Stinnett has no experience with any game other than F2P grinders. Or he's just a broke clown trying to play bigshot developer. Otherwise, he'd realize EQ, EQ2, WoW, CoX, and every other "AAA" title out there does indeed sustain a monthly fee quite easily. This guy makes me laugh ( at him, not with him ) everytime I see one of his posts. Seriously, if PE ( or whatever the hell their name is going to be now ) want to even have a chance of getting anything out the door, they better toss this moron off the bus at the very next stop. I am officially declaring any post made by Daron "don't know sh*t" Stinnett as laughable and unworthy of merit, and completely ignorable as such.
that's a really close minded statement.
"XX MMO's has it, so you must use it too!", what kind of arguement is that? You act as if a monthly fee is the only way to go in order to be profitable. The Micropayment model has been proven to be successful in the world and western developers are now only starting to consider it.A few western mmo companies already start to implant it in new titles. In fact, SOE is going to use the micro payment model in 2 upcomming games and is, according to their words, convinced that micro payments are the way to go for the future of MMORPG.
Wether you like the business model or not. the business model has proven to work and some of the most successfull mmorpg's in the world use an item shop.
And it has to be said once more: They are just discussing it as a possibility. No need to take it as if it's set in stone.
As long as Mr Stinnet is involved this title will strictly be a class C game at best. The words "imminently clueless" can best describe this persons understanding of the startrek legacy and the MMO marketplace.
Of course that assumes that this game ever gets published, which, if anyone were taking odds, is extremely unlikely due to the past history of this company.
The best thing that Paramount could do at this time would be to rescind the license and let a more capable company attempt to recitfy the upcoming disaster if they continue to allow this company to publish STO.
Daron Stinnett: "I personally think that MMOs need to be a better deal. Paying $200/year is a good deal for some but I don't think that is sustainable for the category and certainly rules out a lot of people who don't have the time to get enough value out of that expense. "
Now we know the truth. Daron Stinnett has no experience with any game other than F2P grinders. Or he's just a broke clown trying to play bigshot developer. Otherwise, he'd realize EQ, EQ2, WoW, CoX, and every other "AAA" title out there does indeed sustain a monthly fee quite easily. This guy makes me laugh ( at him, not with him ) everytime I see one of his posts. Seriously, if PE ( or whatever the hell their name is going to be now ) want to even have a chance of getting anything out the door, they better toss this moron off the bus at the very next stop. I am officially declaring any post made by Daron "don't know sh*t" Stinnett as laughable and unworthy of merit, and completely ignorable as such.
that's a really close minded statement.
"XX MMO's has it, so you must use it too!", what kind of arguement is that? You act as if a monthly fee is the only way to go in order to be profitable. The Micropayment model has been proven to be successful in the world and western developers are now only starting to consider it.A few western mmo companies already start to implant it in new titles. In fact, SOE is going to use the micro payment model in 2 upcomming games and is, according to their words, convinced that micro payments are the way to go for the future of MMORPG.
Wether you like the business model or not. the business model has proven to work and some of the most successfull mmorpg's in the world use an item shop.
And it has to be said once more: They are just discussing it as a possibility. No need to take it as if it's set in stone.
I have to agree. The micropayment model can work as long as it doesn't unlevel the playing field. The key is don't sell any game breaking super items as that will drive people away in droves. Sell mostly cosmetic enhancements and maybe some grind relieving items but nothing that will give one player an unfair advantage over another. The main reason why this model gets such bad reactions is because of some games that have abused players by offering "Uber" items and power ups at a cost. Plenty of people will pay to have a unique looking uniform or to get a slight and I do mean slight EXP gain for a certain amount of time. Just don't sell any +20 Phasers or ultimate health power ups and there is absolutely nothing wrong with this business model.
As for the game itself and the developers........I don't even think that a F2P model will help this game if the development keeps going in the wrong direction. The original team that were on this project proposed the game that everyone wanted to play but Stinnett and his cronies have totally dismantled that vision and turned it into some watered down EVE/WoW clone in the making. As long as Stinnett is the engineer and PE are the fire tenders derailment of this train is an inevitable conclusion.
Comments
I don't see why people have a problem with non-subscription payment models. I know that's what everyone is used to and comfortable with but times change. Just because there are a lot of generic Eastern grinder games that use this, it doesn't mean that any game with no sub is going to be the same.
Would people start dumping AoC or WAR if they announced a similar plan?
In so many pre-release MMOs I see people asking if they will have a subscription and then being disappointed that they do.
Here's a payment plan I'd like to see:
a) Pay nothing and get the basic game - so everyone can play.
b) Buy extras, up to a cap limit where they are free after that.
c) Pay a sub equal to the cap limit and get unlimited extras.
The extras would have to take the form of item efficiency rather than consumables so the subscription-payers don't just get an unlimited stack of health potions.
Off-topic, I completely agree that STO is a lame duck based on what little we've seen of it so far and it will fit right in with every other Star Trek game out there.
Not only that, the marketing company will deserve a Purple Heart by the time they're through.
Hey now, be fair, Birth of the Federation ruled
As shakey as PE is looking, I would not be surprised if this project folds. "Vulcan's Fury" anyone?
So... will there be ship interiors? Or is that still not going to happen?
I won't play unless I can live in my ship and invite friends to hang out with me there (and vice versa). Otherwise we're just playing spaceships instead of people.
- Phos
Well, I'll tell you one thing....
The way PE/Daron Stinnett are going.... they're making McQuaid and Vanguard/Sigil look like choirboys by comparison. At least Vanguard got released. G&H didn't even make it to that (I beta'd it, and it was only mildly entertaining, and held no great 'WOW! I WANT TO KEEP PLAYING!' factor for me).
STO is definitely in the wrong hands. It should have been given to someone who could have made it a blockbuster of a game, one that could tap millions of subs.
Daron's LAME excuse about 200 bucks a year being too much (180 anyone 12x15) for most people is patently ridiculous. A movie costs 10 bucks to see these days, for 2 hours of fun. At 5 bucks an hour (not including drinks/popcorn/candy), its still fairly 'cheap' compared to say, seeing a baseball game or football game. If a casual player even plays 4 hours a week, 30 hours a month... that's a whopping 50 cents an hour of entertainment time. 10 times cheaper than a movie.
His response is a cover for the fact that they're having these discussions for another reason: They'll release a bare bones game with nothing in it, and microtransaction people to death with content additions.
I suspect a 'casual' player would end up paying MORE than 15 bucks a month in microtransactions if they want to experience the world and 'keep up with the Joneses'. So... what's that about 'sustainable'?
No, this is PE thinking that they can release a stinker of a game, and make money off the 'candy' at the concession stand, then escape before the gates close on it with their bags of loot.
personally i am a fan of Star Trek, and i enjo the occasional FTP MMO myself (mainly jut GW) but i do not support this dramafest of a game that they are "appearently" making. Ive been following this game sort of quietly since the beginning and i truly feel sorry for the gamers for having to be put through this torture. I mean the STO.net drama stuff thats been going on in their forums, lack of good dev updates, and now this...seriously i agree they should have shut this down when they decided to pull G&H cuu really they arent getting anywhere with the gamers side of the community, not the ones that cling to them on their forums, but the ones here that are honest about their opinions, and are not brainwashed. The ones who realize that making a successful game is not about obtaining a IP that is worldwide known and loved. To me, they are spitting on everything i ever loved in my life growing up sbout Star Trek.
Just say no to microtransaction games. As said before the reason developers are jumping on this bandwagon is because they will make much more money than a subscription game. You will be nickel and dimed for everything and you will pay out the nose for items and coin and content to keep up with everyone else. It's a corrupt philosophy that destroys the basic tenet of a fair and level palying field.
I'm voting "No Confidense" in PE and STO.
"Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard drive?"
From the Classic Tag Lines collection.
But no response or clarification has been included for player ships.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
If STO turns into a pay-real-cash-for-items model...I won't be playing it. Period. And neither will my wife, who is a Trek freak.
a shame this game seems dead before it even hits the ground - all due to leadership issues
Well to be honest I'm glad it's dead. If this was gonna be a good game, I would get it, but no mmorpg based on a popular franchise can be good. WOW wasn't, SWG wasn't, and this won't be. Why? Because companies only make these games because they're already popular, so a stable income is guaranteed from all the idiot fanboys who would even play the 'let's kick you in the balls' game as long as it was labelled Star Trek.
that's a really close minded statement.
"XX MMO's has it, so you must use it too!", what kind of arguement is that? You act as if a monthly fee is the only way to go in order to be profitable. The Micropayment model has been proven to be successful in the world and western developers are now only starting to consider it.A few western mmo companies already start to implant it in new titles. In fact, SOE is going to use the micro payment model in 2 upcomming games and is, according to their words, convinced that micro payments are the way to go for the future of MMORPG.
Wether you like the business model or not. the business model has proven to work and some of the most successfull mmorpg's in the world use an item shop.
And it has to be said once more: They are just discussing it as a possibility. No need to take it as if it's set in stone.
As long as Mr Stinnet is involved this title will strictly be a class C game at best. The words "imminently clueless" can best describe this persons understanding of the startrek legacy and the MMO marketplace.
Of course that assumes that this game ever gets published, which, if anyone were taking odds, is extremely unlikely due to the past history of this company.
The best thing that Paramount could do at this time would be to rescind the license and let a more capable company attempt to recitfy the upcoming disaster if they continue to allow this company to publish STO.
that's a really close minded statement.
"XX MMO's has it, so you must use it too!", what kind of arguement is that? You act as if a monthly fee is the only way to go in order to be profitable. The Micropayment model has been proven to be successful in the world and western developers are now only starting to consider it.A few western mmo companies already start to implant it in new titles. In fact, SOE is going to use the micro payment model in 2 upcomming games and is, according to their words, convinced that micro payments are the way to go for the future of MMORPG.
Wether you like the business model or not. the business model has proven to work and some of the most successfull mmorpg's in the world use an item shop.
And it has to be said once more: They are just discussing it as a possibility. No need to take it as if it's set in stone.
I have to agree. The micropayment model can work as long as it doesn't unlevel the playing field. The key is don't sell any game breaking super items as that will drive people away in droves. Sell mostly cosmetic enhancements and maybe some grind relieving items but nothing that will give one player an unfair advantage over another. The main reason why this model gets such bad reactions is because of some games that have abused players by offering "Uber" items and power ups at a cost. Plenty of people will pay to have a unique looking uniform or to get a slight and I do mean slight EXP gain for a certain amount of time. Just don't sell any +20 Phasers or ultimate health power ups and there is absolutely nothing wrong with this business model.
As for the game itself and the developers........I don't even think that a F2P model will help this game if the development keeps going in the wrong direction. The original team that were on this project proposed the game that everyone wanted to play but Stinnett and his cronies have totally dismantled that vision and turned it into some watered down EVE/WoW clone in the making. As long as Stinnett is the engineer and PE are the fire tenders derailment of this train is an inevitable conclusion.
Bren
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beat();
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