i was under the impression that earth now has an oxygen based atmosphere was accidental ( and not a natural occurance) as it wsa very poisonous to alot of living things not that many million of years ago.
That was one of the lesser theories of global warming is that the oxygen based environment is slowly bleeding away becuase earth wasnt supposed to be oxygen based we our planet is too close to the sun for it to remain a permanently oxygen protected world , mars was too far , the planet that was inbetween us would have been perfectly placed.
Anyway i read that somewhere back in the 80's ,so eh im not a scientist so i have no idea its it true but since then I have always thought global warming is a natural occurance since the earths mean temp should be well above what it is now( dont argue we KNOW the mean is well above what it is now on avg no one disputes that ,and yes man speeds it up, i differ my belief at this point -its going up is a return to natural state) and that our oxygen based ecosystem was an accident .
For example jurassic park type cloning could never happen, the plants and animals cloned from then would all die of oxygen poisoning after exposure to our atmosphere now and quickly.
anyway back to the subject lol i rant and im semi intoxicated ...
To survive we need to leave ... what other animals in nature survives living where it craps?
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
Originally posted by Gorair i was under the impression that earth now has an oxygen based atmosphere was accidental ( and not a natural occurance) as it wsa very poisonous to alot of living things not that many million of years ago. That was one of the lesser theories of global warming is that the oxygen based environment is slowly bleeding away becuase earth wasnt supposed to be oxygen based we our planet is too close to the sun for it to remain a permanently oxygen protected world , mars was too far , the planet that was inbetween us would have been perfectly placed. Anyway i read that somewhere back in the 80's ,so eh im not a scientist so i have no idea its it true but since then I have always thought global warming is a natural occurance since the earths mean temp should be well above what it is now( dont argue we KNOW the mean is well above what it is now on avg no one disputes that ,and yes man speeds it up, i differ my belief at this point -its going up is a return to natural state) and that our oxygen based ecosystem was an accident . For example jurassic park type cloning could never happen, the plants and animals cloned from then would all die of oxygen poisoning after exposure to our atmosphere now and quickly. anyway back to the subject lol i rant and im semi intoxicated ... To survive we need to leave ... what other animals in nature survives living where it craps?
I've explained this before on these forums. Here's a copy/paste...
Big Bang: about 12billion years ago Earth formed: about 5 billion years ago Amino acids allow molecules to duplicate on earth (first life): About 4 billion years ago Earliest plant cells form and begin photosynthesis: 3 billion years ago First complex life (fish): 600 million years ago Dinosaurs: 250 million - 65 million years ago Homo Sapien: 100,000 years ago until present
The first life wasn't even a one-celled organism. The early earth was rich in ultraviolet light (filtered sunlight), carbon, methane, ammonia, hydrogen, lightning (electricity), liquid, a cooling planet, and much more. This rich environment allowed for a slow breakdown of hydrogen-rich molecular liquid and a re-forming of it into a more complex molecular liquid. Some of those molecules began having complex combinations of millions and billions of atoms. This eventually formed an organic soup that was able to allow molecules to duplicate themselves in proteins and acids. Most importantly, amino acids.
Eventually this molecular soup produced a combination of nucleotides and enzymes that was the first successful form of DNA. This DNA had 4 nucleotides that was able to reproduce itself with perfect fidelity with the help of certain enzymes. This was the beginning of DNA, which was the first molecular machine able to duplicate itself perfectly every time. This organic goop ate itself up over and over again and formed more complex molecules and the nucleic acid and enzymes which was perfect for the creation of more complex cells.
This organic puddle was the "egg" of all life. (really, the whole planet was.)
This primordial soup turned into many different types of proteins, acids, and molecules. Many were useless and died. Some led to cells with a nucleus that succeeded and copied itself. Some molecules were attracted to water, others were repelled from it. The molecules got more and more complex, eventually turning into several different types including green oxygen-producing molecules. Molecules split and split and split (which is the egg, which is the parent?).
Eventually the water and atmosphere contained "molecular oxygen" oxygen-rich because of billions of years of undisturbed consumption and oxygen production. After billions of years of this, molecules slowly became more and more complex. Eventually there were single-celled organisms, then larval cells, etc. Millions of these organisms failed and died, but many survived.
This was the beginning of natural selection. This was the beginning of every species we know today. Some grew dependant on the oxygen created over the previous billion years in the air and water. Their reproduction always continued. Larvae continued to reproduce, always producing copies of themselves. Larvae became fish, some of those fish started eating each other. Some of the earliest prehistorical fish used their fins to drag themselves to other puddles where there were no predators. Some of those fish became amphibians, some became the first reptiles. Hundreds of millions of years later the world had dinosaurs and millions of other species including insects, birds, and everything we know today.
- Phos
Science kicks ass.
AAH! A troll fire! Quick, pour some Kool-Aid on it!!!
after all that you skipped the part of history where oxygen was a waste product of single cell organisms and that waste product poisoned everything else until new life evolved that used the oxygen.
it took 3000 million years to change to an oxygen based planet . It was only 600 million years ago it became the oxygen based environment that was the start of our current atmosphere( read everything else died , was poisoned).
600 million years is not long at all rest of the time it was not oxygen and there is still no scientific reason oxygen took off except that something "changed" 600 million years ago. there was a huge boom in the amount of free oxygen 450 million years ago because plants grew all over the world.
here is an except from an history of earth lecture ( or the professors notes ) from OSU.
Poison:
i. In fact, it is highly likely that life could not have (cannot) originate and evolve de novo in an oxidizing atmosphere because the presence of molecular oxygen would be expected to destroy (oxidize) the many reduced organic compounds used by and making up life.
ii. Consistently, this problem persists today, with a large fraction of biomolecules (and other reduced carbon compounds) highly susceptible to oxidation and, therefore, to damage upon extended exposure to oxygen.
and same lecture:
Today's aerobic organisms (more broadly including aerotolerant organisms, ones which can live in the presence of molecular oxygen) are descendants of organisms which long ago developed defense mechanisms (mostly molecular) against molecular oxygen.
Living in an oxidizing atmosphere remains a significant problem and, mechanistically at least, leads to all sorts of troubling consequences such as human aging (the choice is yours, die now for lack of oxygen or die later following a lifetime of breathing the stuff).
oxygen is a poison and really an accident. breathing it and converting it to something else is a defence mechanism only.
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
Allthough the norm for human civilisation is 1Atm and 21% oxygen there are a lot of humans living sucessfully under different environmental circumstances.
People high up in the himalayas for example, not sure what the oxygen level is at 4000 meters, but I bet it is not 21%, nor is the atmospheric pressure 1.
And take some of the more polluted industrial regions in asia, conditions there is grim tp say the least, and allthough many is not healthy they do survive.
Humans are if anything versatile and adaptable, add our borderline idiotic curiosity and there is no way we will not at some point live of earth, if for no other reason than "its there".
There is nothing that says that we need to create an entire eco system similar to earth to be able to live somewere, environmental control can be very localized.
Think total recall.
But again, we are to curious to not go, in fact this curiosity is probable what is going to kill us all.
The last words spoken before the end of the universe will almost certainly be.
"I wonder what happens if I do this?"
Perhaps someone with a bit more time can check at wich extremes of the scale humans are sucessfully existing?
We had a russian living on mir for over 700 days as example, returning to earth was no picknick for him, but he survived.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That sucks that oxygen is so unnatural and poison. I didn't know that. So that will make it even MORE difficult for us to ever live off earth.
We really are a freak occurrance.
In many ways, we're like the worst alien there is. We're violent, greedy, and our atmosphere is poisonous for most any other creature we could encounter.
- Phos
AAH! A troll fire! Quick, pour some Kool-Aid on it!!!
Humans can live off the earth if the natural ingredients to create an earth like environment exists. Like was stated before we can manipulate environments. We can create oxygen out of carbon dioxide and keep it monitored. We can make parched land fertile given time. Its not like we need an entire planet lush with trees and wild-life and 23% oxygen in the atmosphere to live, we can import it; and live in inclosed areas.
The main deterrent is cost and actually finding a viable planet. Mars is on the list but without water its impossible as the Bio-Dome project showed.
1) How do you explain all the aliens living on the earth while clearly they have to abide to the same rules
2) People are stil just too stupid to understand anything. They might one day create form of cold fusion wich creates oxygen giving us energy and oxygen supply (i'm using my fantasy here not real facts prob. oxygen is a too light element but we don't know that for sure since we haven't invented col fusion just yet)
Comments
i was under the impression that earth now has an oxygen based atmosphere was accidental ( and not a natural occurance) as it wsa very poisonous to alot of living things not that many million of years ago.
That was one of the lesser theories of global warming is that the oxygen based environment is slowly bleeding away becuase earth wasnt supposed to be oxygen based we our planet is too close to the sun for it to remain a permanently oxygen protected world , mars was too far , the planet that was inbetween us would have been perfectly placed.
Anyway i read that somewhere back in the 80's ,so eh im not a scientist so i have no idea its it true but since then I have always thought global warming is a natural occurance since the earths mean temp should be well above what it is now( dont argue we KNOW the mean is well above what it is now on avg no one disputes that ,and yes man speeds it up, i differ my belief at this point -its going up is a return to natural state) and that our oxygen based ecosystem was an accident .
For example jurassic park type cloning could never happen, the plants and animals cloned from then would all die of oxygen poisoning after exposure to our atmosphere now and quickly.
anyway back to the subject lol i rant and im semi intoxicated ...
To survive we need to leave ... what other animals in nature survives living where it craps?
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
I've explained this before on these forums. Here's a copy/paste...
Big Bang: about 12billion years ago
Earth formed: about 5 billion years ago
Amino acids allow molecules to duplicate on earth (first life): About 4 billion years ago
Earliest plant cells form and begin photosynthesis: 3 billion years ago
First complex life (fish): 600 million years ago
Dinosaurs: 250 million - 65 million years ago
Homo Sapien: 100,000 years ago until present
The first life wasn't even a one-celled organism. The early earth was rich in ultraviolet light (filtered sunlight), carbon, methane, ammonia, hydrogen, lightning (electricity), liquid, a cooling planet, and much more. This rich environment allowed for a slow breakdown of hydrogen-rich molecular liquid and a re-forming of it into a more complex molecular liquid. Some of those molecules began having complex combinations of millions and billions of atoms. This eventually formed an organic soup that was able to allow molecules to duplicate themselves in proteins and acids. Most importantly, amino acids.
Eventually this molecular soup produced a combination of nucleotides and enzymes that was the first successful form of DNA. This DNA had 4 nucleotides that was able to reproduce itself with perfect fidelity with the help of certain enzymes. This was the beginning of DNA, which was the first molecular machine able to duplicate itself perfectly every time. This organic goop ate itself up over and over again and formed more complex molecules and the nucleic acid and enzymes which was perfect for the creation of more complex cells.
This organic puddle was the "egg" of all life. (really, the whole planet was.)
This primordial soup turned into many different types of proteins, acids, and molecules. Many were useless and died. Some led to cells with a nucleus that succeeded and copied itself. Some molecules were attracted to water, others were repelled from it. The molecules got more and more complex, eventually turning into several different types including green oxygen-producing molecules. Molecules split and split and split (which is the egg, which is the parent?).
Eventually the water and atmosphere contained "molecular oxygen" oxygen-rich because of billions of years of undisturbed consumption and oxygen production. After billions of years of this, molecules slowly became more and more complex. Eventually there were single-celled organisms, then larval cells, etc. Millions of these organisms failed and died, but many survived.
This was the beginning of natural selection. This was the beginning of every species we know today. Some grew dependant on the oxygen created over the previous billion years in the air and water. Their reproduction always continued. Larvae continued to reproduce, always producing copies of themselves. Larvae became fish, some of those fish started eating each other. Some of the earliest prehistorical fish used their fins to drag themselves to other puddles where there were no predators. Some of those fish became amphibians, some became the first reptiles. Hundreds of millions of years later the world had dinosaurs and millions of other species including insects, birds, and everything we know today.
- Phos
Science kicks ass.
after all that you skipped the part of history where oxygen was a waste product of single cell organisms and that waste product poisoned everything else until new life evolved that used the oxygen.
it took 3000 million years to change to an oxygen based planet . It was only 600 million years ago it became the oxygen based environment that was the start of our current atmosphere( read everything else died , was poisoned).
600 million years is not long at all rest of the time it was not oxygen and there is still no scientific reason oxygen took off except that something "changed" 600 million years ago. there was a huge boom in the amount of free oxygen 450 million years ago because plants grew all over the world.
here is an except from an history of earth lecture ( or the professors notes ) from OSU.
i. In fact, it is highly likely that life could not have (cannot) originate and evolve de novo in an oxidizing atmosphere because the presence of molecular oxygen would be expected to destroy (oxidize) the many reduced organic compounds used by and making up life.
ii. Consistently, this problem persists today, with a large fraction of biomolecules (and other reduced carbon compounds) highly susceptible to oxidation and, therefore, to damage upon extended exposure to oxygen.
and same lecture:
oxygen is a poison and really an accident. breathing it and converting it to something else is a defence mechanism only.
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
Allthough the norm for human civilisation is 1Atm and 21% oxygen there are a lot of humans living sucessfully under different environmental circumstances.
People high up in the himalayas for example, not sure what the oxygen level is at 4000 meters, but I bet it is not 21%, nor is the atmospheric pressure 1.
And take some of the more polluted industrial regions in asia, conditions there is grim tp say the least, and allthough many is not healthy they do survive.
Humans are if anything versatile and adaptable, add our borderline idiotic curiosity and there is no way we will not at some point live of earth, if for no other reason than "its there".
There is nothing that says that we need to create an entire eco system similar to earth to be able to live somewere, environmental control can be very localized.
Think total recall.
But again, we are to curious to not go, in fact this curiosity is probable what is going to kill us all.
The last words spoken before the end of the universe will almost certainly be.
"I wonder what happens if I do this?"
Perhaps someone with a bit more time can check at wich extremes of the scale humans are sucessfully existing?
We had a russian living on mir for over 700 days as example, returning to earth was no picknick for him, but he survived.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That sucks that oxygen is so unnatural and poison. I didn't know that. So that will make it even MORE difficult for us to ever live off earth.
We really are a freak occurrance.
In many ways, we're like the worst alien there is. We're violent, greedy, and our atmosphere is poisonous for most any other creature we could encounter.
- Phos
Humans can live off the earth if the natural ingredients to create an earth like environment exists. Like was stated before we can manipulate environments. We can create oxygen out of carbon dioxide and keep it monitored. We can make parched land fertile given time. Its not like we need an entire planet lush with trees and wild-life and 23% oxygen in the atmosphere to live, we can import it; and live in inclosed areas.
The main deterrent is cost and actually finding a viable planet. Mars is on the list but without water its impossible as the Bio-Dome project showed.
1) How do you explain all the aliens living on the earth while clearly they have to abide to the same rules
2) People are stil just too stupid to understand anything. They might one day create form of cold fusion wich creates oxygen giving us energy and oxygen supply (i'm using my fantasy here not real facts prob. oxygen is a too light element but we don't know that for sure since we haven't invented col fusion just yet)