Lawyers are like cockroaches, where you see 1 there's always going to be 12 more in the shadows. Forum eLawyers are even worse... The interesting thing here is Microsoft's Windows versions pre-Vista. Apparently if you had sp2 installed you were not affected by this patch. Also, why should such a volatile file (boot.ini) not be backed up be default by the older OS? I would like to ask every single user who's posting or reading this thread: IF you use Windows XP do you have SP2 installed? If you do not have SP2 installed is your installation of XP officially authorized by Microsoft? There are a lot of users who still use XP without the sp2 installed 'cs they are using a version which they did not pay for and would lose full usage. I suspect that a large portion of those affected were actually using a copy they acquired illegally. I suspect the number of affected people are very slim and I would also suspect that a majority of those who had this problem were using a copy of XP which did not include sp2 so they could circumvent the pirate protection and continue using their illegally obtained OS.
OK here we go with the tinfoil hat's comming out, I knew it was only amatter of time. Well lets be clear i have a dell XPS with windows media center. This system shiped from dell has worked flawlessly till I updated EVE online. Many people with lagit operating systems have been affected such as myself.
The EVE Fanboys realy arent doing CCP any favor's by posting garbadge. All they are doing is letting possible future customers know what the Fan Base is like.
I cant log into windows at all. I get error message before windows pulls up and any button i hit just reboots and i get same message.Ive tried F2 and F12 on my dell and theres no help there at all.
I cant log into windows at all. I get error message before windows pulls up and any button i hit just reboots and i get same message.Ive tried F2 and F12 on my dell and theres no help there at all.
IF you got a dell when you are loading to boot hold ctrl and keep tapping f11 that will bring up you back up copy of windows. If you reload windows without repairing from a disk though you will loose all usaved data. It will be like you got your PC the first day. Persoanly id wait for dell to ship your OS disk and do a repair.
Ok, the story keeps getting better and better. I have found where CCP was notified that the update DID indeed delete the boot.ini several days before they even patched. The proof is the 8th post down, dated 12-3-07.
Actually, this wasn't some sort of automatic update, you had to download and install it manually. So you installed the update and not CCP. CCP did deliver a defective update, but the damage it did was minor and easily repaired. The damages people 'suffered' is because inexperienced users tried to 'repair' their system (reinstalls)...
This could have slipped through the testing period due to: - Not rebooting the machine after installation - Installing games on a different partition - Not installing it as an Administrator - Not being in previous test versions (a bug that slipped in at the after testing).
It's a huge mistake, a complete fncknp, but that sometimes happens in software development. You wouldn't believe some of the stuff that happens at financial institutions, most of which is swept expertly under the rug.
Funny Cergo, did you know that rebooting would've actually affected your pc, due to a missing boot.ini ? no ? doh!
As to the rest of you whiner lolboy American "I sue you for hot coffee" crap, I'll tell you now why there will not be a lawsuit against CCP.
Money.
Capital.
Currency.
Cashfllow.
The first single person taking on a company with millions more money will have to prove they've been physically or emotionally harassed. On any other accusations, the individual loses the case by default. It's the law of "we have more money, more lawyers and infinite more time to work this case than you do" By the time the court reaches a verdict, you'll be 4 years further up the rails and in the meantime someones going to have to pay to fight the case. You could always try getting a "no cure no pay" office, but you'll be damn lucky to find one on these ridiculous terms.
Second, CCP will, in case of a trial, try to come to a financial agreement, prior to the opening of said trial, to avoid bad press. This money will be accepted 99% of the time, because it's riskfree, and you get it right away. Going to court means you might possibly lose your entire savings and never actually get to see any money, for those that still live at home, being babied by their parents, stay the fuck away from this argument and just accept that people litterally piss their pants when facing potential bankruptcy.
The only possible way to fight this case, is as I said, on humane grounds, or when forming a large group of "victims" ( By the way, before this case ever gets accepted, someones going to actually have to define whether there actually are victims in this case and they'll have to prove that CCP never lifted a finger to help them and that their intentions were to bring down their PC's to cripple them.)
Look at my previous post, CCP was warned at least once days before it was patched and from what info has been coming out, they were warned more than the one time I found in their own forums.
Originally posted by mindspat I would like to ask every single user who's posting or reading this thread: IF you use Windows XP do you have SP2 installed? If you do not have SP2 installed is your installation of XP officially authorized by Microsoft?
OK here we go with the tinfoil hat's comming out, I knew it was only amatter of time. Well lets be clear i have a dell XPS with windows media center. This system shiped from dell has worked flawlessly till I updated EVE online. Many people with lagit operating systems have been affected such as myself.
The EVE Fanboys realy arent doing CCP any favor's by posting garbadge. All they are doing is letting possible future customers know what the Fan Base is like.
Dont be a fool, no one is doning the tinfoil. Why couldn't you simply respond to the question of IF you have SP2 installed or not rather then engage in idiotic finger pointing at others who are curious to WHY they are not affected by this when I should have.
Maybe I didn't have the problem 'cs I have a legit verion of XP pro installed with SP2 updated? Not sure, I also know I didn't buy my machine from a manufacture, I built it. I do know that based on how my XP is installed it should have been affected, along with several other new players I know; we all updated before the problem was known and none of us have been impacted.
I am not saying anything is or is not the cause of the problems, it's clear someone at CCP made a mistake. I just see a great amount of inconsistency from a LOT of people claiming to be affected and it's quite interesting when the if/then's on being affected by this aren't nescessarily universal and appear to be somewhat random.
Is it confirmed that SP2 will restore the boot.ini when booting?
Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, the opposition's attorney would certainly want you to believe that CCP deliberately damaged your computers. And they make a good case.
Hell, I almost felt pity myself!
But, ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, I have one final thing I want you to consider. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a wookie from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about that; that does not make sense!
Why would a wookie, an 8 foot tall wookie, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of two foot tall ewoks? That does not make sense! But more importantly, you have to ask yourself, ‘what does that have to do with this case?' Nothing. Ladies and Gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case. It does not make sense! Look at me. I'm a lawyer defending a mid-level online game company and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca! Does that make sense?
Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense!
None of this makes sense!
And so you have to remember, when you're in that jury room deliberatin' and conjugatin' the Emancipation Proclamation, does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, it does not make sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit! The defense rests.
Funny Cergo, did you know that rebooting would've actually affected your pc, due to a missing boot.ini ? no ? doh! As to the rest of you whiner lolboy American "I sue you for hot coffee" crap, I'll tell you now why there will not be a lawsuit against CCP. Money. Capital. Currency. Cashfllow. The first single person taking on a company with millions more money will have to prove they've been physically or emotionally harassed. On any other accusations, the individual loses the case by default. It's the law of "we have more money, more lawyers and infinite more time to work this case than you do" By the time the court reaches a verdict, you'll be 4 years further up the rails and in the meantime someones going to have to pay to fight the case. You could always try getting a "no cure no pay" office, but you'll be damn lucky to find one on these ridiculous terms. Second, CCP will, in case of a trial, try to come to a financial agreement, prior to the opening of said trial, to avoid bad press. This money will be accepted 99% of the time, because it's riskfree, and you get it right away. Going to court means you might possibly lose your entire savings and never actually get to see any money, for those that still live at home, being babied by their parents, stay the fuck away from this argument and just accept that people litterally piss their pants when facing potential bankruptcy. The only possible way to fight this case, is as I said, on humane grounds, or when forming a large group of "victims" ( By the way, before this case ever gets accepted, someones going to actually have to define whether there actually are victims in this case and they'll have to prove that CCP never lifted a finger to help them and that their intentions were to bring down their PC's to cripple them.) I wish you gl
Arista,
Dammit, I said leave it alone! But we can't, because we all have Big E-Peens and must post! That said and admitted to:
Remember, that sometimes you can do the right thing to correct the wrong and still have to go to court and pay an ungodly amount and go through drama (i.e.-DC Judge versus Laundrymat that Ka-Pwned my pants!). Stupid as it sounds, that's our society: Sue and take their money! Anyway...
I agree with you that there most likely will not be a single lawsuit. I imagine, if CCP does nothing to correct this error (other than offering the solution and new patch), we will have a CLASS ACTION lawsuit filed on behalf of the affected. Of course, your points that CCP will make overtures avoiding said lawsuit and all will be happy in the world.
I am NOT for a lawsuit. I am for CCP doing the right thing. So far, it looks like they are doing the right thing. I am sure next week we will have an official announcement from the team. I repeat: this will probably never see trial because I am sure CCP will do the right thing from the start and get all the "affected" to agree to the terms of the 'compensation package'.
Look at my previous post, CCP was warned at least once days before it was patched and from what info has been coming out, they were warned more than the one time I found in their own forums.
rshandion I went to the link. That's 1 post buried in the known issues forum. the chances of a dev reading that forum to find issues on the test server is non-existant, it's the wrong form for that. Hell even the developement forum isn't the right place to post that, but it would have had a slightly better chance of being seen. If that poster had submitted a proper bug report THEN ccp would have had a chance to see it and avoid this mistake, but I can hardly fault them for not seeing that post when it was buried deep in the exact spot where it would do absolutely no good.
Originally posted by Minsc rshandion I went to the link. That's 1 post buried in the known issues forum. the chances of a dev reading that forum to find issues on the test server is non-existant, it's the wrong form for that. Hell even the developement forum isn't the right place to post that, but it would have had a slightly better chance of being seen. If that poster had submitted a proper bug report THEN ccp would have had a chance to see it and avoid this mistake, but I can hardly fault them for not seeing that post when it was buried deep in the exact spot where it would do absolutely no good.
Ok, CCP's forum mods are just there to lock thread .. check.
Funny Cergo, did you know that rebooting would've actually affected your pc, due to a missing boot.ini ? no ? doh! As to the rest of you whiner lolboy American "I sue you for hot coffee" crap, I'll tell you now why there will not be a lawsuit against CCP. Money. Capital. Currency. Cashfllow. The first single person taking on a company with millions more money will have to prove they've been physically or emotionally harassed. On any other accusations, the individual loses the case by default. It's the law of "we have more money, more lawyers and infinite more time to work this case than you do" By the time the court reaches a verdict, you'll be 4 years further up the rails and in the meantime someones going to have to pay to fight the case. You could always try getting a "no cure no pay" office, but you'll be damn lucky to find one on these ridiculous terms. Second, CCP will, in case of a trial, try to come to a financial agreement, prior to the opening of said trial, to avoid bad press. This money will be accepted 99% of the time, because it's riskfree, and you get it right away. Going to court means you might possibly lose your entire savings and never actually get to see any money, for those that still live at home, being babied by their parents, stay the fuck away from this argument and just accept that people litterally piss their pants when facing potential bankruptcy. The only possible way to fight this case, is as I said, on humane grounds, or when forming a large group of "victims" ( By the way, before this case ever gets accepted, someones going to actually have to define whether there actually are victims in this case and they'll have to prove that CCP never lifted a finger to help them and that their intentions were to bring down their PC's to cripple them.) I wish you gl
I'm going to agree here. If someone actually decides to take CCP to court it won't get far at all. CCP has done everything they can at this point, short of sending a repair man to your house and a check to cover the charges. Guess what? It doesn't work that way. Yes, when your computer crashes it sucks. Yes, it is infinitely more times awful when it happens due to circumstances beyond your control. I can understand the anger, it is quite reasonable. However, I think some of you are missing the point here: Life goes on. Bad things happen in life. This is one of those bad things. I have lost very important data over faulty programs before. If your computer is down nothing can be done at this point other than patching or reinstalling. Believe it or not, bitching about CCP and "how they will pay" on a forum is not going to fix a thing.
This is one major blunder no doubt, and CCP does hold, at the very least, moral accountability. You need to remember though, that above all CCP is a corporation, and therefor profit is its number one goal. If they are screwing up their customer's computers, then that is a loss in profits. You can bet that this was an accident (if anyone actually challenges that). It was simply overlooked in the race to get Trinity back online ASAP. Remember, profits. In the end, EVE isn't made for your enjoyment, its made for the companie's wallet. They'll bounce back from this, and the entire event will just a embarrassing company mistake that will be forgotten by the majority of people.
Ok, CCP's forum mods are just there to lock thread .. check.
Frankly as a Forum mod myself on several forums... Yes. You think a forum mod has the time to actually comprehend everything in a post. Most posts are skimmed with general glances for people avoiding filters, breaking posting rules, etc... That said just because they came upon it doesn't mean that its there job to report something as being fact that they have absolutely no idea if its right or wrong.
I would say that this could of happen to anyone, it was a single keystroke error that effects a very specific setup on computers. A setup that is sadly became more prevalent with the short cuts by computer manufacturers of putting the recovery CDs on the hard drive as the primary partition, instead of spending the extra dollar to make the disc and include it in the computer. End result the people who know the least about computers get hit the hardest. While CCP may be the source of the problem the fact that it exists at all is on MS and the OEM of your PC as well.
Ok, the story keeps getting better and better. I have found where CCP was notified that the update DID indeed delete the boot.ini several days before they even patched. The proof is the 8th post down, dated 12-3-07.
This clearly shows a clearly negligent act on their part and will cost them dearly.
Heh this post got quoted before as 'Proof' and once again ill say this......
- on the wrong forum.
- Wansant Bug reported by the poster.
- Was posted barly more than a day before the forums went offline for the 24hour patching.
- Before patch day the devs are very buisy getting everything ready for patch time so would hardly have time to troll the 1,000's of post on the forums.
- The moderators dont do bug reporting they do moderator stuff.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Retired from: Neocron, Everquest, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, RF Online and Final Fantasy VII
So i turn my comp on yesterday and get this " (windows root)system32hal.dll" missing or corrupt. Now that its been traced to EVE. I have a dell xps in which you have to request your OS CD's (which i did today). Am i screwed until i get my OS CD's and reinstall XP?
Actually EvE works on linux too. Load up for free and get your fix...
Er, if you can find drivers...
Played (more than a month): SWG, Second Life, Tabula Rasa, Lineage 2, Everquest 2, EvE, MxO, Ryzom.
This is the worst thread I have ever seen...Literally, really, truly, I mean that...
Eve borked your windows install. Well, let's go through the things that have borked my windows, and non-windows systems in the past year.
Macbook Pro: Superdrive update 2.1 (matshita 857D). Made the drive work perhaps 1/6th of the time, eventually failed. Mac's cost for the repair, nothing. It was out of warrenty and now just jingles when I start up the machine. This was an automatic update.
Bios update flash for Lenovo 3000 c200...Downloaded..."Installed Successfully" and then windows reported missing pci dll's at boot. Lenovo's cost for repair, nothing. I had to reinstall windows xp (legit copy) in a repair install, then had to re-register update server so I could pull windows updates. Time lost? To me, about 4 hours. Whoop.
Macbook Pro: USB update rendered my usb/firewire/keyboard and trackpad useless. The system boot just great, but all I/O devices were borked. External DVD would not accept my repair disks, and the superdrive was already screwed by a mac update. So, I had to make a bootable usb install of leopard to reinstall (my system disks were 10.4.7). Time lost, about 6 hours (not straight), money lost? About 80 bucks. USB drives are not free.
Should I even begin with how many games have sent Windows to blue with HAL borktedness?
So, should I sue each and every one? I mean really? Either I have a case, and should be a millionaire because of it all, or perhaps, you should just suck it up, back up regularly, and realize that computers crash. It happens, and it not the end of the world, much less worth my tax dollars to support the staff listening to your mindless litigation.
Played (more than a month): SWG, Second Life, Tabula Rasa, Lineage 2, Everquest 2, EvE, MxO, Ryzom.
I too seriously doubt that this will ever see a court room. I do think it will cost CCP in the end though. Not cash out of pocket but cash that could have been in the pocket.
Players that haven't been arround long and players that were thinking of joining will now take pause before playing EVE because of this blunder. Players playing that have lost hours fixing this problem and players that had to pay money to fix this problem might well say goodbye to EVE. Potential players will look at this as possibe example of future problems that CCP's development team will deliver, instead of a sound update you get a broke PC.
I had the error and was lucky enough to catch it before I restarted my PC. I could be pissed that this file was removed in the first place but overall I am pleased with the update they put out from all their hard work and time invested, this one oversight is not going to ruin it for me.
$h!t happens. If you haven't learned that yet, you will soon enough . Hell they made a bumper sticker for it....
Well when they say extract info from your cpu, that don't mean take out your damn boot.ini file. They mean system specs crap like that the eula does not, protect ccp at all, I guess noone remembers the huge everquest class action lawsuit the eula does not give ANY!! gaming company power to harm your computer in any way, and yea a simple reload can fix the problem but thats not the point this should not happen period. Just thought of this when you have major surgery you sign the little paper saying if something goes wrong you can't sue the doctor or hospital but funny how doctors still get sued left and right eula does not make computer gaming companies invul to everything.
wow.. yet another post reguarding this mistake... let it go. I swear people just love to tear down any company they can. CCP is a fantastic company and EVE is a good game, atleast i can play EVE without memory leaks causing my computer to start crawling 2 hours later, atleast my expansions are free, atleast it runs great on my machine, and atleast i can get customer service withen 24 hours after a petition... I have 4 accounts on EVE, and atleast another 4 spread over other games, EVE will continue to recieve my money.
Well when they say extract info from your cpu, that don't mean take out your damn boot.ini file. They mean system specs crap like that the eula does not, protect ccp at all, I guess noone remembers the huge everquest class action lawsuit the eula does not give ANY!! gaming company power to harm your computer in any way, and yea a simple reload can fix the problem but thats not the point this should not happen period.
I honestly did not quite understand what you are trying to say. <.<
And in case people haven't noticed yet, CCP doesn't need to be protected. They will feel the bite of this blunder in forms of some players maybe quitting, some others not joining and maybe they even will have to compensate some people.
No lawsuit will reach courts. If anyone sues them, they will make amends out of court and anyone in their right mind will accept those simply because it's easier and better for everyone involved.
Quit waving around "CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT!!!!" like we're in frikkin Law and Order. <.<
Well when they say extract info from your cpu, that don't mean take out your damn boot.ini file. They mean system specs crap like that the eula does not, protect ccp at all, I guess noone remembers the huge everquest class action lawsuit the eula does not give ANY!! gaming company power to harm your computer in any way, and yea a simple reload can fix the problem but thats not the point this should not happen period.
I honestly did not quite understand what you are trying to say. <.<
And in case people haven't noticed yet, CCP doesn't need to be protected. They will feel the bite of this blunder in forms of some players maybe quitting, some others not joining and maybe they even will have to compensate some people.
No lawsuit will reach courts. If anyone sues them, they will make amends out of court and anyone in their right mind will accept those simply because it's easier and better for everyone involved.
Quit waving around "CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT!!!!" like we're in frikkin Law and Order. <.<
Well all i am saying is that they are not protected from something like this is all i mean, i wouldn't bother i was in the everquest class action and it was long draw out and what we got wasn't worth the time. They should atleast offer a free month or 6 for ppl that felt the bite. I wasn't effect myself so i am not to worried tho i will be leaving the game not just because of this i been playing 4 years ,and just tired of playing this is as good of a reason as any to head on out :P.
Most of you are morons and don't know a thing because it didn't happen to them.
Firstly to the person saying "XP sp2 users are not affected" is talking out of his ass, because it does.
"it takes 5 minutes, you must be a retard if you can't fix it".
I'm sorry, but once CCP released any kind of warning it was 6 hours after the fact, during which many xp users shut down for the night. Once you reboot the next day and find out you cannot even get windows to start, what are you going to think. Read Eve-Online news? What If they don't have a second computer to read it with, even if they think of that? Getting more to the point, some of you 'experts' who think it is a 5 minute fix because you can just 'boot into windows and copy-paste fix it'... ROFL that is the best line i've seen in a while. Yes the 'boot.ini' is deleted, lets just BOOT into windows and quickly fix it; you must be a computer genius. Once its taken effect you can't do shit without the windows disk, and even that did not help me, I had to use a 2nd computer to copy a new custom made boot.ini into dos because bootcfg would not generate a new boot.ini . If I had no second computer, I could either reinstall windows, or take it for repairs for $100.
'They offered sufficient help to fix it'
I tend to disagree. If you opened a petition asking for help, they direct you to a thread 80 pages long. In this thread, if you can find the developer posts, they tell you to copy and paste their new boot.ini into a new file. How do you do this if you rebooted before their warning was issued. They provide no recovery instructions once you have rebooted your computer. I had to search Microsoft's technical support site for the solution.
Oh yeah and for e-lawyer time: I would go for negligence and not gross negligence. They made a mistake, but a very STUPID and CRITICAL one. I would say you could sue for the amount it cost to repair, such as $100 for the geek squad to fix it, but not $1 million for losing work time (as you should have expected something like this to occur and back up your work, etc). Although their intent was not to harm the computer, they should have taken more care and quality control to insure that critical errors did not destroy your operating system, and not NEGLIGENTLY releasing a bad patch. Overall it would not be worth suing for the $100 because of the additional legal and court fees. Perhaps a class-action lawsuit would be better.
I downloaded it within the time frame and I got hit with it, and I restarted, but it took me a whole like minute and a half to use the recovery console and build a new boot.ini....not to mention, if you didn't restart it would take even less time.
End the end, you can place the blame anywhere you want, but why in the world, is a text file vital to booting a windows OS, sitting in an unprotected folder?
---------------------- If brute force isn't working, you are not using enough. Don't argue with an idiot, they will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Most of you are morons and don't know a thing because it didn't happen to them. Firstly to the person saying "XP sp2 users are not affected" is talking out of his ass, because it does. "it takes 5 minutes, you must be a retard if you can't fix it". I'm sorry, but once CCP released any kind of warning it was 6 hours after the fact, during which many xp users shut down for the night. Once you reboot the next day and find out you cannot even get windows to start, what are you going to think. Read Eve-Online news? What If they don't have a second computer to read it with, even if they think of that? Getting more to the point, some of you 'experts' who think it is a 5 minute fix because you can just 'boot into windows and copy-paste fix it'... ROFL that is the best line i've seen in a while. Yes the 'boot.ini' is deleted, lets just BOOT into windows and quickly fix it; you must be a computer genius. Once its taken effect you can't do shit without the windows disk, and even that did not help me, I had to use a 2nd computer to copy a new custom made boot.ini into dos because bootcfg would not generate a new boot.ini . If I had no second computer, I could either reinstall windows, or take it for repairs for $100. 'They offered sufficient help to fix it' I tend to disagree. If you opened a petition asking for help, they direct you to a thread 80 pages long. In this thread, if you can find the developer posts, they tell you to copy and paste their new boot.ini into a new file. How do you do this if you rebooted before their warning was issued. They provide no recovery instructions once you have rebooted your computer. I had to search Microsoft's technical support site for the solution. Oh yeah and for e-lawyer time: I would go for negligence and not gross negligence. They made a mistake, but a very STUPID and CRITICAL one. I would say you could sue for the amount it cost to repair, such as $100 for the geek squad to fix it, but not $1 million for losing work time (as you should have expected something like this to occur and back up your work, etc). Although their intent was not to harm the computer, they should have taken more care and quality control to insure that critical errors did not destroy your operating system, and not NEGLIGENTLY releasing a bad patch. Overall it would not be worth suing for the $100 because of the additional legal and court fees. Perhaps a class-action lawsuit would be better. You don't think this affected many people? The Eve-O forum thread is 80 pages. 'nuff said.
XP SP2 automatically makes a backup of boot.ini in case the original gets wiped out so in the case of this bug it would just restore from the backup. So unless the user fucked with restore settings on their system then the bug would have no effect. Not to mention the fact that windows had to be installed on a drive other than primary for the bug to take effect to begin with.
Comments
OK here we go with the tinfoil hat's comming out, I knew it was only amatter of time. Well lets be clear i have a dell XPS with windows media center. This system shiped from dell has worked flawlessly till I updated EVE online. Many people with lagit operating systems have been affected such as myself.
The EVE Fanboys realy arent doing CCP any favor's by posting garbadge. All they are doing is letting possible future customers know what the Fan Base is like.
IF you got a dell when you are loading to boot hold ctrl and keep tapping f11 that will bring up you back up copy of windows. If you reload windows without repairing from a disk though you will loose all usaved data. It will be like you got your PC the first day. Persoanly id wait for dell to ship your OS disk and do a repair.
Ok, the story keeps getting better and better. I have found where CCP was notified that the update DID indeed delete the boot.ini several days before they even patched. The proof is the 8th post down, dated 12-3-07.
myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp
This clearly shows a clearly negligent act on their part and will cost them dearly.
This could have slipped through the testing period due to:
- Not rebooting the machine after installation
- Installing games on a different partition
- Not installing it as an Administrator
- Not being in previous test versions (a bug that slipped in at the after testing).
It's a huge mistake, a complete fncknp, but that sometimes happens in software development. You wouldn't believe some of the stuff that happens at financial institutions, most of which is swept expertly under the rug.
Funny Cergo, did you know that rebooting would've actually affected your pc, due to a missing boot.ini ? no ? doh!
As to the rest of you whiner lolboy American "I sue you for hot coffee" crap, I'll tell you now why there will not be a lawsuit against CCP.
Money.
Capital.
Currency.
Cashfllow.
The first single person taking on a company with millions more money will have to prove they've been physically or emotionally harassed. On any other accusations, the individual loses the case by default. It's the law of "we have more money, more lawyers and infinite more time to work this case than you do" By the time the court reaches a verdict, you'll be 4 years further up the rails and in the meantime someones going to have to pay to fight the case. You could always try getting a "no cure no pay" office, but you'll be damn lucky to find one on these ridiculous terms.
Second, CCP will, in case of a trial, try to come to a financial agreement, prior to the opening of said trial, to avoid bad press. This money will be accepted 99% of the time, because it's riskfree, and you get it right away. Going to court means you might possibly lose your entire savings and never actually get to see any money, for those that still live at home, being babied by their parents, stay the fuck away from this argument and just accept that people litterally piss their pants when facing potential bankruptcy.
The only possible way to fight this case, is as I said, on humane grounds, or when forming a large group of "victims" ( By the way, before this case ever gets accepted, someones going to actually have to define whether there actually are victims in this case and they'll have to prove that CCP never lifted a finger to help them and that their intentions were to bring down their PC's to cripple them.)
I wish you gl
Look at my previous post, CCP was warned at least once days before it was patched and from what info has been coming out, they were warned more than the one time I found in their own forums.
OK here we go with the tinfoil hat's comming out, I knew it was only amatter of time. Well lets be clear i have a dell XPS with windows media center. This system shiped from dell has worked flawlessly till I updated EVE online. Many people with lagit operating systems have been affected such as myself.
The EVE Fanboys realy arent doing CCP any favor's by posting garbadge. All they are doing is letting possible future customers know what the Fan Base is like.
Dont be a fool, no one is doning the tinfoil. Why couldn't you simply respond to the question of IF you have SP2 installed or not rather then engage in idiotic finger pointing at others who are curious to WHY they are not affected by this when I should have.
Maybe I didn't have the problem 'cs I have a legit verion of XP pro installed with SP2 updated? Not sure, I also know I didn't buy my machine from a manufacture, I built it. I do know that based on how my XP is installed it should have been affected, along with several other new players I know; we all updated before the problem was known and none of us have been impacted.
I am not saying anything is or is not the cause of the problems, it's clear someone at CCP made a mistake. I just see a great amount of inconsistency from a LOT of people claiming to be affected and it's quite interesting when the if/then's on being affected by this aren't nescessarily universal and appear to be somewhat random.
Is it confirmed that SP2 will restore the boot.ini when booting?
Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, the opposition's attorney would certainly want you to believe that CCP deliberately damaged your computers. And they make a good case.
Hell, I almost felt pity myself!
But, ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, I have one final thing I want you to consider. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a wookie from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about that; that does not make sense!
Why would a wookie, an 8 foot tall wookie, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of two foot tall ewoks? That does not make sense! But more importantly, you have to ask yourself, ‘what does that have to do with this case?' Nothing. Ladies and Gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case. It does not make sense! Look at me. I'm a lawyer defending a mid-level online game company and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca! Does that make sense?
Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense!
None of this makes sense!
And so you have to remember, when you're in that jury room deliberatin' and conjugatin' the Emancipation Proclamation, does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, it does not make sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit! The defense rests.
Arista,
Dammit, I said leave it alone! But we can't, because we all have Big E-Peens and must post! That said and admitted to:
Remember, that sometimes you can do the right thing to correct the wrong and still have to go to court and pay an ungodly amount and go through drama (i.e.-DC Judge versus Laundrymat that Ka-Pwned my pants!). Stupid as it sounds, that's our society: Sue and take their money! Anyway...
I agree with you that there most likely will not be a single lawsuit. I imagine, if CCP does nothing to correct this error (other than offering the solution and new patch), we will have a CLASS ACTION lawsuit filed on behalf of the affected. Of course, your points that CCP will make overtures avoiding said lawsuit and all will be happy in the world.
I am NOT for a lawsuit. I am for CCP doing the right thing. So far, it looks like they are doing the right thing. I am sure next week we will have an official announcement from the team. I repeat: this will probably never see trial because I am sure CCP will do the right thing from the start and get all the "affected" to agree to the terms of the 'compensation package'.
Hasta.
rshandion I went to the link. That's 1 post buried in the known issues forum. the chances of a dev reading that forum to find issues on the test server is non-existant, it's the wrong form for that. Hell even the developement forum isn't the right place to post that, but it would have had a slightly better chance of being seen. If that poster had submitted a proper bug report THEN ccp would have had a chance to see it and avoid this mistake, but I can hardly fault them for not seeing that post when it was buried deep in the exact spot where it would do absolutely no good.
Ok, CCP's forum mods are just there to lock thread .. check.
I'm going to agree here. If someone actually decides to take CCP to court it won't get far at all. CCP has done everything they can at this point, short of sending a repair man to your house and a check to cover the charges. Guess what? It doesn't work that way. Yes, when your computer crashes it sucks. Yes, it is infinitely more times awful when it happens due to circumstances beyond your control. I can understand the anger, it is quite reasonable. However, I think some of you are missing the point here: Life goes on. Bad things happen in life. This is one of those bad things. I have lost very important data over faulty programs before. If your computer is down nothing can be done at this point other than patching or reinstalling. Believe it or not, bitching about CCP and "how they will pay" on a forum is not going to fix a thing.
This is one major blunder no doubt, and CCP does hold, at the very least, moral accountability. You need to remember though, that above all CCP is a corporation, and therefor profit is its number one goal. If they are screwing up their customer's computers, then that is a loss in profits. You can bet that this was an accident (if anyone actually challenges that). It was simply overlooked in the race to get Trinity back online ASAP. Remember, profits. In the end, EVE isn't made for your enjoyment, its made for the companie's wallet. They'll bounce back from this, and the entire event will just a embarrassing company mistake that will be forgotten by the majority of people.
Frankly as a Forum mod myself on several forums... Yes. You think a forum mod has the time to actually comprehend everything in a post. Most posts are skimmed with general glances for people avoiding filters, breaking posting rules, etc... That said just because they came upon it doesn't mean that its there job to report something as being fact that they have absolutely no idea if its right or wrong.I would say that this could of happen to anyone, it was a single keystroke error that effects a very specific setup on computers. A setup that is sadly became more prevalent with the short cuts by computer manufacturers of putting the recovery CDs on the hard drive as the primary partition, instead of spending the extra dollar to make the disc and include it in the computer. End result the people who know the least about computers get hit the hardest. While CCP may be the source of the problem the fact that it exists at all is on MS and the OEM of your PC as well.
Heh this post got quoted before as 'Proof' and once again ill say this......
- on the wrong forum.
- Wansant Bug reported by the poster.
- Was posted barly more than a day before the forums went offline for the 24hour patching.
- Before patch day the devs are very buisy getting everything ready for patch time so would hardly have time to troll the 1,000's of post on the forums.
- The moderators dont do bug reporting they do moderator stuff.
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Retired from: Neocron, Everquest, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, RF Online and Final Fantasy VII
Currently Playing : EvE Online.
Er, if you can find drivers...
Played (more than a month): SWG, Second Life, Tabula Rasa, Lineage 2, Everquest 2, EvE, MxO, Ryzom.
Tried: WoW, Shadowbane, Anarchy Online, Everquest, WWII Online, Planetside
Beta: Lotro, Tabula Rasa, WAR.
This is the worst thread I have ever seen...Literally, really, truly, I mean that...
Eve borked your windows install. Well, let's go through the things that have borked my windows, and non-windows systems in the past year.
Macbook Pro: Superdrive update 2.1 (matshita 857D). Made the drive work perhaps 1/6th of the time, eventually failed. Mac's cost for the repair, nothing. It was out of warrenty and now just jingles when I start up the machine. This was an automatic update.
Bios update flash for Lenovo 3000 c200...Downloaded..."Installed Successfully" and then windows reported missing pci dll's at boot. Lenovo's cost for repair, nothing. I had to reinstall windows xp (legit copy) in a repair install, then had to re-register update server so I could pull windows updates. Time lost? To me, about 4 hours. Whoop.
Macbook Pro: USB update rendered my usb/firewire/keyboard and trackpad useless. The system boot just great, but all I/O devices were borked. External DVD would not accept my repair disks, and the superdrive was already screwed by a mac update. So, I had to make a bootable usb install of leopard to reinstall (my system disks were 10.4.7). Time lost, about 6 hours (not straight), money lost? About 80 bucks. USB drives are not free.
Should I even begin with how many games have sent Windows to blue with HAL borktedness?
So, should I sue each and every one? I mean really? Either I have a case, and should be a millionaire because of it all, or perhaps, you should just suck it up, back up regularly, and realize that computers crash. It happens, and it not the end of the world, much less worth my tax dollars to support the staff listening to your mindless litigation.
Played (more than a month): SWG, Second Life, Tabula Rasa, Lineage 2, Everquest 2, EvE, MxO, Ryzom.
Tried: WoW, Shadowbane, Anarchy Online, Everquest, WWII Online, Planetside
Beta: Lotro, Tabula Rasa, WAR.
I too seriously doubt that this will ever see a court room. I do think it will cost CCP in the end though. Not cash out of pocket but cash that could have been in the pocket.
Players that haven't been arround long and players that were thinking of joining will now take pause before playing EVE because of this blunder. Players playing that have lost hours fixing this problem and players that had to pay money to fix this problem might well say goodbye to EVE. Potential players will look at this as possibe example of future problems that CCP's development team will deliver, instead of a sound update you get a broke PC.
I had the error and was lucky enough to catch it before I restarted my PC. I could be pissed that this file was removed in the first place but overall I am pleased with the update they put out from all their hard work and time invested, this one oversight is not going to ruin it for me.
$h!t happens. If you haven't learned that yet, you will soon enough . Hell they made a bumper sticker for it....
Well when they say extract info from your cpu, that don't mean take out your damn boot.ini file. They mean system specs crap like that the eula does not, protect ccp at all, I guess noone remembers the huge everquest class action lawsuit the eula does not give ANY!! gaming company power to harm your computer in any way, and yea a simple reload can fix the problem but thats not the point this should not happen period. Just thought of this when you have major surgery you sign the little paper saying if something goes wrong you can't sue the doctor or hospital but funny how doctors still get sued left and right eula does not make computer gaming companies invul to everything.
wow.. yet another post reguarding this mistake... let it go. I swear people just love to tear down any company they can. CCP is a fantastic company and EVE is a good game, atleast i can play EVE without memory leaks causing my computer to start crawling 2 hours later, atleast my expansions are free, atleast it runs great on my machine, and atleast i can get customer service withen 24 hours after a petition... I have 4 accounts on EVE, and atleast another 4 spread over other games, EVE will continue to recieve my money.
And in case people haven't noticed yet, CCP doesn't need to be protected. They will feel the bite of this blunder in forms of some players maybe quitting, some others not joining and maybe they even will have to compensate some people.
No lawsuit will reach courts. If anyone sues them, they will make amends out of court and anyone in their right mind will accept those simply because it's easier and better for everyone involved.
Quit waving around "CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT!!!!" like we're in frikkin Law and Order. <.<
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
And in case people haven't noticed yet, CCP doesn't need to be protected. They will feel the bite of this blunder in forms of some players maybe quitting, some others not joining and maybe they even will have to compensate some people.
No lawsuit will reach courts. If anyone sues them, they will make amends out of court and anyone in their right mind will accept those simply because it's easier and better for everyone involved.
Quit waving around "CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT!!!!" like we're in frikkin Law and Order. <.<
Well all i am saying is that they are not protected from something like this is all i mean, i wouldn't bother i was in the everquest class action and it was long draw out and what we got wasn't worth the time. They should atleast offer a free month or 6 for ppl that felt the bite. I wasn't effect myself so i am not to worried tho i will be leaving the game not just because of this i been playing 4 years ,and just tired of playing this is as good of a reason as any to head on out :P.
Most of you are morons and don't know a thing because it didn't happen to them.
Firstly to the person saying "XP sp2 users are not affected" is talking out of his ass, because it does.
"it takes 5 minutes, you must be a retard if you can't fix it".
I'm sorry, but once CCP released any kind of warning it was 6 hours after the fact, during which many xp users shut down for the night. Once you reboot the next day and find out you cannot even get windows to start, what are you going to think. Read Eve-Online news? What If they don't have a second computer to read it with, even if they think of that? Getting more to the point, some of you 'experts' who think it is a 5 minute fix because you can just 'boot into windows and copy-paste fix it'... ROFL that is the best line i've seen in a while. Yes the 'boot.ini' is deleted, lets just BOOT into windows and quickly fix it; you must be a computer genius. Once its taken effect you can't do shit without the windows disk, and even that did not help me, I had to use a 2nd computer to copy a new custom made boot.ini into dos because bootcfg would not generate a new boot.ini . If I had no second computer, I could either reinstall windows, or take it for repairs for $100.
'They offered sufficient help to fix it'
I tend to disagree. If you opened a petition asking for help, they direct you to a thread 80 pages long. In this thread, if you can find the developer posts, they tell you to copy and paste their new boot.ini into a new file. How do you do this if you rebooted before their warning was issued. They provide no recovery instructions once you have rebooted your computer. I had to search Microsoft's technical support site for the solution.
Oh yeah and for e-lawyer time: I would go for negligence and not gross negligence. They made a mistake, but a very STUPID and CRITICAL one. I would say you could sue for the amount it cost to repair, such as $100 for the geek squad to fix it, but not $1 million for losing work time (as you should have expected something like this to occur and back up your work, etc). Although their intent was not to harm the computer, they should have taken more care and quality control to insure that critical errors did not destroy your operating system, and not NEGLIGENTLY releasing a bad patch. Overall it would not be worth suing for the $100 because of the additional legal and court fees. Perhaps a class-action lawsuit would be better.
You don't think this affected many people?
The Eve-O forum thread is 80 pages. 'nuff said.
I downloaded it within the time frame and I got hit with it, and I restarted, but it took me a whole like minute and a half to use the recovery console and build a new boot.ini....not to mention, if you didn't restart it would take even less time.
End the end, you can place the blame anywhere you want, but why in the world, is a text file vital to booting a windows OS, sitting in an unprotected folder?
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If brute force isn't working, you are not using enough.
Don't argue with an idiot, they will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
XP SP2 automatically makes a backup of boot.ini in case the original gets wiped out so in the case of this bug it would just restore from the backup. So unless the user fucked with restore settings on their system then the bug would have no effect. Not to mention the fact that windows had to be installed on a drive other than primary for the bug to take effect to begin with.