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Order v. Destruction balance
psujdog
Member Posts: 16
In WoW, expecially pre-expansion pack, there was usually a big imbalance in favor of alliance v. horde. I think a lot of it was due to how unattractive the horde characters (e.g., tauren) were to look at. On the other hand, WoW didn't brand alliance v. horde as good v. evil, each had its own claim to legitimacy. In WAR, on the other hand, it is more of a good v. evil dynamic. Do you think there will be a big imbalance in favor of Order? Do you think Chaos, more than Order, will be dominated by kids, griefers, etc.?...
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I think chaos will be the dominate side to be honest. We all have our "dark" side in RL and get to express it in our MMO's. Our escapes from reality so to speak.
i thought exactly the same when i first heard of the order Vs destruction RvR theme, but after seeing countless polls on the subject i am thinking it will balance nicely, i for one want to roll a squig herder and have played greenskins in every game ive been able to (even oblivion tho they were REALLY ugly) but the amount of people on here and other forums, who say they want a bright wizard / knight of the blazing sun / highelf ect. seems to balance out with the amount of us evil buggers :P, hopefully mythic will have thought of this and have some way to balance over/under populated realms some how (maybe close off certian character choices when a realm gets too orc heavy for eg) but as with most things we can only speculate on whats gonna happen come launch day (may i slip into a coma and wake up then PLEASE!!! lol) and we better hope that not every person who picks up a copy will roll an orc and steamroller over the 2 people who decided to play dwarf hehe
Also, there is supposed to be mercenaries to help sides, and people usually won't want to play on a side where its like 80% order, 20% chaos, unless they are new to video games in general.
Though we have heard of stupid haste in war, cleverness has never been seen associated with long delays.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
If you look around you'll find an overwhelming amount of Destruction guilds and players. So most likely you are going to see a population imbalance in favor of Destruction in the beginning. As far as kids, griefers, etc. in my experience i've always found them anywhere I go. I don't think you are going to avoid them by choosing one side or the other. Now as far as pvpers go, I have found that the hardcore tend to go with the underdog side.
I initially was going to be Chaos Chosen, but the immense lack of Order people made me sway my choice.
Maybe someone should make a new updated poll and see how it ends up
From the forums Ive read, it looks like destruction will initially outnumber the order. The classes for destruction are very enticing and it seems many want to roll an evil character. I think the realm vs. realm will be fairly balanced on two fronts. The Dwarfs will be outnumbered but their player base is usually fanatical and so will hold their own. HE and DEs will be evenly matched. I think the most lopsided will be Empire vs Chaos as Chaos numbers seem to be high. I think the Empire will need help from the other order races to hold off Chaos.
If you look around you'll find an overwhelming amount of Destruction guilds and players. So most likely you are going to see a population imbalance in favor of Destruction in the beginning. As far as kids, griefers, etc. in my experience i've always found them anywhere I go. I don't think you are going to avoid them by choosing one side or the other. Now as far as pvpers go, I have found that the hardcore tend to go with the underdog side.
I initially was going to be Chaos Chosen, but the immense lack of Order people made me sway my choice.
Maybe someone should make a new updated poll and see how it ends up
In my experience in WoW, I picked Horde. I did it because they were the underdogs. I wouldn't consider myself a hardcore gamer due to my life situation, but I hate losing.. and just because I'm outnumbered, that doesn't mean the opposition is any more skilled.
In WAR I plan to pick the classes that are most appealing to me. I am very interested in the War Priest and the Shadow Warrior. So, obviously I'll be sticking with Order just because I like the classes better. That, and mutated humans just piss me off to look at.. so it's an easy choice.
I think a lot more people will pick sides for that reason instead of good versus evil. It's just a guess, but I believe it should be balanced pretty well. Though, I'm sure EA Mythic have plans to balance things other than NPC dogs of war. Don't forget this, humans are always picked more than any other race. It's just easier for your typical gamer to relate with a human rather than an orc. I believe it will be pretty even for Dwarfs and Orcs. Neither of them are very popular if you think about it.
This is something that has come across my mind quite a few times now. I would like to roll Destruction for my first character, however seeing that Order will probably be the underdogs (though I could be wrong cuz some polls say otherwise), my friends and I are thinking that maybe we'll play Order. If there so happens to be an imbalance in factions, it'll only be for the first little while and then people will start rolling new characters all over the place and things will most likely turn out okay.
As far as kids and griefers... you can't avoid them, they're everywhere. I wouldn't count on one race having less. It's just a natural part of any game, unfortunately.
Well as far as i have could get out of most treads on this subject there is two "facts" to take into account here.
people claim that all MMo's there are with a good and evil side , there the good side is outnumbering the evil side after release.
as far as the picture from internet forums polls pregamerelease , the evil side is always looking like the one that most people are going to play !
So far WAR is fitting that picture!
My personal understanding from a lot of games is that the effect in play is that PvE people tends to be on the good side, but as they get more experienced and they move from PvE to PvP they open up alot more to be "Evil".
As such WAR with its focus on RvR, and an IP where at least part of it , (table top games) do allow people to play against each other, could be a game where the evil side could be bigger than usual.
But that is if war is moderate succesfull, if really being huge, i don't think there is anyway that the good side would not outnumber the evil.
And as a side note on "that other game". no matter the brand, orks, goblins and undead are in peoples general understanding on the evil side! As they should be! period!
Destruction will probably be the more popular choice... Which is exactly why I'm probably going Order - It's always more fun to be the underdog.
It'll all balance out eventually though.
Its just my experiance but I tend to find the more friendly people playing the "Evil" side lol. The purty happy good guys seem to be played by the jerkoffs who want to be the "hero" which translates to good side = more asshats.
As an example and though its f2p (usually more idiots than p2p) but I am playing the Shaiya beta. I made a character on the evil side and ran into many nice people. Seemed to be alot less griefing ect. After getting that character to 30 I switched to the good guy side. I only lasted about 3 hours on that side. By level 10 I was dealing with a ton of jerkoffs AoE things. Stealing kills. Child talk in world chat ect.
Again just my observations but I for one will be going Destruction at least for the start simply because in my experiance the "evil" guys are generally the more mature crowd.
I don't know about all the servers but one the one I played on Horde outnumbered alliance something like 3 to 1 I assumed it was like that on most servers. The evil side is usually the dominate side in mmos in my experience. The idea of being an "evil bad ass" is pretty attractive.
Sent me an email if you want me to mail you some pizza rolls.
While I can understand your assumption Joliust that server you played on was part of the vast minority.
www.warcraftrealms.com will show you the demographics of WoW.
Back to topic though.
I'll be playing Order along with my guild for the sole reason of having people to fight against. I know full well that Destruction will be the more popular choice due to the "coolness" of being evil in MMOG's.
Being outnumbered just means there's more to fight against!
While true if you check the same site you'll see that nearly every PvP server released since TBC has more Horde than Alliance. There's a general perception that Horde carries the better players (and some better racials) that could well carry over to Warhammer.
First of all, the Horde were the dominant class in WoW not Alliance. Maybe not during release, but a year or two after release it was Horde always winning the PvP matches. This was always said that the kiddies would pick the alliance because they looked good whereas the older population would choose the horde in order to get away from the kids. In WAR I could see the same thing happening honestly. I think Destruction will dominate because they will have the same effect as WoW's horde. Try to stay away from the kids, but as an added bonues destructive looks better than Order. IMO WAR is going to have a serious imbalance if they don't try to improve on the visuals of Order and stop making Order look like fairys while Destruction looks like death knights lol.
pretty sad but ill go where ever there are less kids, i hate playin with 13yr old kids that just say stupid crap and curse 24/7, i wish they would make a mmo that you had to use ur SSi# or driver license # because they game would be 18+, lol then they could add gore and nudity for use adults and wouldnt have to worry about little tikes all the time lol
That's it.
~ Ancient Membership ~
Well pre-release everyone thought Horde was gonna outnumber Alliance. All the polls and everything. Well we know how all that ended up.
Prolly cause all the ppl answering those polls were serious gamers who browse MMO forums (us) and the vast majority of everyone else just wanted to be the good guys or at least human-looking. I guess it will all depend whether WAR ends up attracting a mostly gamer crowd (Destruction ftw) or manages to appeal to a broader audience base (Order ftw).
I don''t really know when Humankind will die out but i''m guessing about 6 years before WOW.
-BarCrow
the first 2 months you wont have a clue...
A cool tool to add in char creation would be to tally how many Order vs Destruction there are...and give you a clue who needs more players. I think that would help alot.
Only....if players understand that you want to join the lesser...means you have more action.
I guess many will play Chaos, yes, but dont mistake number with power. In WOW it is not so much a matter how many play Horde, it is what kind of players chose it. Often factions with less players attract PVP experts, because they prefer the challange to play the underdog, and trust me, a few good PVP players can easily defeat many uncoordinated people. Often young players have little discipline and coordination, they dont want to listen to others and just rush on into battle.
To be blunt, they count as little more as cannon fodder, unless they outnumber the enemy REALLY considerbly, which I dont expect atm. And also each server usually has its own dynamics. As I understand many WAR battles will include NPC mobs, so that will also balance things out, so I really would not be worried.
Usually I play the side which I feel most "at home" which, usually Order/good. I never could live in Freeport (Eq2) for instance, because all the yelling at me and scheming wasnt my cup of tea. I am an old fashioned guy who playes the hero for goodness, and I guess many players have a personal preferrence whatsoever. What people say in polls is one thing, but when they really play a character longer it is usally the long term preferrence which decides, not some conscious plan "I play this and this because of that" - thing. I see myself likely as Witch Hunter for the Empire. Maybe we Germans have a weakness for that, hrhr.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Witch Hunter of the Imperial Inquisition.
Cleanse. Purge. Kill.
Nuff' said.
The ultimate solution to every problem: more space marines.
I originally wanted to roll a Black Orc because of the known classes, that one seemed the most fun for me. But after casually reading some forums, it looks like the Dwarves are going to be seriously out-numbered. So I decided to play an Engineer. But then I changed my mind again about playing WAR at all because of another delay in its release. Then I started to nitpick....
from my exsperince of playing mmorpgs that deal with factions that have a good vs evil side. predominately there will be more people who play and evil toon then a good toon for the sole purpose to go out kill and conqure anything.
swg , there were more empire then rebel players
daoc, More mid players then alb / hib players.
eq most factions that were evil had a larger number then the good factions
eq2 freeport faction players dominated qeynos , but i hear it has changed latley
coh/cov , more players on the villians side for awhile. but recently it has balneced out so its about half and half .
as you can see for yourselfs in these games, players want to be dark heros, they want to be the batman/wolverines of the world but also be labeled "evil" because thats how they like it.
for the goodie two shues finish all your chores , eat your veggies type people of the world, yea they will play the good side, cause thye are brain washed to think good allways wins. , as for the rest of the player base, it will all depend on how fun the classes are for each side
in the end though exspect there to be more baddies then goodies
Chaos Chosen baby !!!!!
Dark elf BlackGuard !!!!
Empire Witch Hunter !!!!
Well, speaking for myself, I almost always play the "Good" side, but from what ive seen form interviews and videos and the descriptions on the website, im really thinking about being on the destruction side, mainly DE and chaos (greenskins are just so ugly). Also, ive seen lots of polls on the various fan sites, and from what ive seen, people seem to favor the evil side. Its still too early to tell as we havent seen any final info on class abilities and the like, but unlike in wow, each race has their own classes, so if you want to be a particular class, you will HAVE to pick that race. Unlike in wow, you could be just about any (and now with the expansion, ANY) class you wanted whether you were good or bad. It will be interesting to see
I am very concerned about this. I tend to think (from polls and general past experience) that the Chaos team is going to steamroll the good guys. Greenskins and Chaos will be very popular, and If I dont miss my guess they will likely attract more "hardcore" PvP'ers who know how to work as a team then Order will.
I'm rolling an Empire Witch Hunter, and I expect to get pounded till I give up and reroll Chaos.
One last thing.... noble folks who will choose the losing team because they want a tough fight aren't as numerous as they would have you think. Getting beaten time and again takes its toll... I love a close fight, but no one likes losing all the time... it needs to be balanced.
I am a fan of Arathi Basin myself, I command my team whenever possible and lead us to quite a few victories in a place where my team USUALLY loses and I love it... but Warsong Gulch is hopeless...... we lose every time so I dont play it... I've given it up. If the world PvP is this one sided in WAR I'll have to give in and get on the winning side... it may not be noble... but its the truth.
Grimm
Grymm
MMO addict in recovery!
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Aion,AoC,TR,WAR,EVE,BP,RIFT,WoW and others... no more!