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Whats the word on Radar
Czzarre
Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 3,742
in DAOC Radar was a huge hit against the gameplay. I understand there is no stealth, but radar was even a problem for those legally hiding behind foliage, underwater, behind walls, etc. Any word on countermeasures to prevent Radar from immediatly popping up in WAR?
Torrential
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Radar is in. Watch some of the older movies on youtube of the combat and you can see the radar had red dots moving all around it.
Mythic has probably learned their lesson and wont allow radar to get to the point where it was in DAOC. They are pretty aggressive about banning offenders in DAOC now, at least judging from when I was still playing a year ago. Early in the game's life, radar had a huge impact on the more casual players in DAOC, I would say it drove many many people away from the game. THey havent said anything publicly about radar countermeasures in WAR to my knowledge, but I would assume they'll be going after it aggressively. It would only be good business sense for them to do so.
Having said that, there will always be people trying to develop undetectable radar for intense pvp games like this. The question I guess becomes who is willing to risk their account in order to have the unfair advantage. From experience, some people who want to win at all costs will take that risk without a second thought. Particularly for those for whom winning is the most important factor, and losing a fully developed toon is just a bump in the road.
See reply #2, they are currently providing full support for it. However, this may work so that you do not show up on radar except to characters with tracking abilities and/or you may be able to get off of it by not moving or attacking for a certain length of time.
I'm not too worried either way. Generally, radar does not give much of an advantage in scenarios because people who are hiding are usually not helping with anything. . . sure, you can hide if you are defending an objective in order to get into melee range fast (if you are a melee class), but if you were rolling an active defense where you fight people from the middle of the map BACK to an objective instead of waiting right at an objective, then you'd be more useful.
Maybe it was an old video and have since then changed their minds.. but I remember either Paul or someone else stating in one of the FAQ sessions that there wouldn't be radar. Why have it anyways? It is unrealistic anyways..
Maybe it was an old video and have since then changed their minds.. but I remember either Paul or someone else stating in one of the FAQ sessions that there wouldn't be radar. Why have it anyways? It is unrealistic anyways..
When it comes to mmorpgs, you can not throw out unrealistic as any means for an argument. Ocrs, Dark Elves, Magic, killing each other and being alive seconds later, and doing that for years, cold one mounts, basically all the mobs, none of that is realistic.
In open world pvp, the advantage of radar can not be overstated. Its huge. If Mythic are putting radar into WAR as a standard feature I assume its because theyve decided its something that can't be 100% stopped. I havent been following WAR very closely the last year, so this news of possible in-game radar really surprises me. I'm not sure how I feel about it. Part of the excitement in DAOC is not knowing whats around the corner.
Also, radar HELPS prevent gankers. If you are out in the Warhammer world and see one red dot on the map, you would likely go check it out, but if you are by yourself and say thirty red dots coming your way, it would be intelligent to run as you stand no chance. This is much better than never seeing 30 dots and finding out the hard way that they are already on you.
Also, it helps promote more fair fights. You wouldn't be able to sneak up on somebody while they are fighting a mob because they could see you moving on the radar towards them. This is the lesser of the evils.
Good points also.
If you see 30 red dots you better have some kind of speed potion, because they'll be coming your way haha.
I suppose Mythic may not be sure what to do either, and if they had radar in beta recently, maybe theyre testing public opinion. /shrug
Maybe it was an old video and have since then changed their minds.. but I remember either Paul or someone else stating in one of the FAQ sessions that there wouldn't be radar. Why have it anyways? It is unrealistic anyways..
When it comes to mmorpgs, you can not throw out unrealistic as any means for an argument. Ocrs, Dark Elves, Magic, killing each other and being alive seconds later, and doing that for years, cold one mounts, basically all the mobs, none of that is realistic.
I can use that argument. I am applying it to a fantasy world in which there are a lot of unrealistic things.. however.. it is not uncommon to see an Orc in WAR, however.. it would be uncommon to see an Orc with a satellite dish attached to his head with a hand held radar screen.. now THAT is unrealistic.Also, you can avoid gankers simply by looking around before you pull a mob. Maybe a few times during the fight just to make sure. If you're afraid of getting killed.. you have chosen the wrong type of video game to play. Also. In PvP. Isn't the game supposed to be skill based? Why not actually communicate with your group more, rather than rely on dots.
I'm obviously against radar, but if it can't be avoided, through 3rd party programs.. then I suppose it has to be added.
Maybe it was an old video and have since then changed their minds.. but I remember either Paul or someone else stating in one of the FAQ sessions that there wouldn't be radar. Why have it anyways? It is unrealistic anyways..
When it comes to mmorpgs, you can not throw out unrealistic as any means for an argument. Ocrs, Dark Elves, Magic, killing each other and being alive seconds later, and doing that for years, cold one mounts, basically all the mobs, none of that is realistic.
I can use that argument. I am applying it to a fantasy world in which there are a lot of unrealistic things.. however.. it is not uncommon to see an Orc in WAR, however.. it would be uncommon to see an Orc with a satellite dish attached to his head with a hand held radar screen.. now THAT is unrealistic.Radar is a term. You could easily replace the work radar with "senses" and claim that the character can sense another player coming up on him, or something big headed that way. There are many occasions within the lore where the characters in the book sense these things. If you haven't read the books than I can understand you not knowing this.
Also, you can avoid gankers simply by looking around before you pull a mob. Maybe a few times during the fight just to make sure. If you're afraid of getting killed.. you have chosen the wrong type of video game to play. Also. In PvP. Isn't the game supposed to be skill based? Why not actually communicate with your group more, rather than rely on dots.
And they should have to look around before every single pull? Waste of time, and they are trying to do what is fun, and I doubt the majority of the people playing will find the "look around at all times or get ganked" their idea of fun. Nobody said I was afraid to get killed, so I am not sure where you pulled that from. Skill based? Depends on how you define it. There are skills, but there are levels, and there are stats, and a game can never be completely skill based when it has levels and stats, or a chance to crit as characters will be different levels, have different stats, and crit each other RANDOMLY. There is no skill in randomness. If you read what I wrote, I used the example from a player solo grinding on mobs. Did I write that if your group of 30 sees a group of 30 players? Nope. I wrote if you were out by yourself.
I'm obviously against radar, but if it can't be avoided, through 3rd party programs.. then I suppose it has to be added.
I myself am against radar in almost any game, but it is pretty obvious as to why it would be in.
I was talking about skill in terms of player skill. In WoW, I looked around.. and those couple seconds that it takes to look, often saved my life. So.. I see your points.. but is it really a waste of time when it can prevent you from have to run back to your corpse for the next five minutes? If you still think it is.. then enjoy being killed over and over.. It is just my opinion through experience that it isn't a waste. It's not an issue of fun.. but necessity.
Also, I may not have read the books and whatnot. But I am completely capable of understanding the concept of "senses". Just because I don't know the lore very well doesn't at all mean I am not intelligent. Thanks though. Like I said, if there are other reasons for radar, then so be it. I just don't prefer it. I also know that they aren't making a game specifically for me.
I'm still trying to find that radar information.. I'll keep looking.. I may have just been mistaken..
Let me also just put this out there, for future threads as well. I can only comment on what has been written to the public, and not what I have seen or experienced in the game. Radar may be in or out, but I will only comment on what has been the most recent statements. So, if you do find the link to whatever you are trying to find, post the link as well as the quote.
I agree basically with DAS.
Radar is fine, I would rather not have a radar too, but it's not that big a deal for me.
I wouldn't mind seeing a radar system similar to Call of Duty 4s if they could implement it as such. Enemies would only appear on radar if they were in combat, or combat mode perahps.
It all depends where you stand on radars, some people see them as a necessity, others see them as a crutch. You can label it a radar or senses, but the bottom line is it's a circle on your screen that gives you an indication of peoples, places, things, etc. locations without having to attempt to search for them.
Some things I would like to do on my own but *shrug*. Like I said it's not that big a deal.
Sounds like the obvious answer is to make it an option that you can disable. People who want it can enable it, people who don't can disable it. Problem solved.
Well if radar is put in-game as a standard feature, its not something you would ever want to turn off on your client. If you go into a pvp area with it turned off, and everyone else has it on, you would get swarmed and die without seeing them coming.
But personally I dont think radar as a game feature is a good idea. My 2 cents.
Well if radar is put in-game as a standard feature, its not something you would ever want to turn off on your client. If you go into a pvp area with it turned off, and everyone else has it on, you would get swarmed and die without seeing them coming.
But personally I dont think radar as a game feature is a good idea. My 2 cents.
I believe that is the opinion of most of us.
If people are going to develop some kind of radar hack, then I'd rather just have it in the game so everyone is equal, and it's not just those that take the time and trouble to install the hack that have radar.
If the developers can guarantee no hacks, then keep it out, but I dont' see how they could do that.
MMORPG Maker
I think radar would be fine. Of course the 2 games i played the most SWG and WoW, SWG's radar showed you pretty much everything and in WoW i was a hunter and just tracked every1.
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In terms of $ it would be smart for EA Mythic to keep radar out, ban the hackers-the hackers buy a new box, equals more money for mythic..but of course I dislike the idea of someone having an unfair advantage over everyone else, and as said if there is no way to keep all of the radar hackers out, then nothing you can do, seems kinda dumb that they wouldn't be able to, though.
Having a radar really takes the "realism" out of the game for me, I know exactly where stuff is, your "sense" should be you looking around-not just boringly grinding on mobs and having tunnel vision. But it seems that the people here share the same opinion as me, so thats interesting as far as player support of it goes.
Though we have heard of stupid haste in war, cleverness has never been seen associated with long delays.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
Personally I have no problem with having a radar or not having one. In the end it really does not impact game play that much.
Unless things have changed from GenCon there is already the system that places 'arrows' around your character that point to friends and foes.
In truth, most people have a sort of radar. Most people can sense, especially when they are alrert, if someone is coming up behind them. There are a lot of clues that you can pickup on in the real world about what is going on outside your vision (especially if your trained for combat) that cannot be duplicated in a computer game.
I really hope Mythic makes the decision to leave radar out of WAR, at least in RvR combat. One of the greatest aspects of DAoC was, as one poster said, that you never knew what was around the corner. Skilled players knew the maps to the letter and had a good sense of what the opponent might do based on their past tendencies, but there was always that element of uncertainty that made even the most routine RvR exciting. Radar would take away that uncertainty, unless they make it useful only in very close proximity to your avatar.
Just another reason I really hope to get into the closed beta so I can see first-hand how they implemented radar and various other aspects of the game.
I miss DAoC.
Exactly why it has to be built in. Not because its good or bad, but because it WILL be in the game whether Mythic wants it or not. I don't personlly like radar, but I would rather it be in from the start than have people hacking the client. Also, if Mythic puts radar in, maybe they will remove glowing names above heads. I don't like floating names unless the toon is targeted.
There will always be people who want an edge over others and will be willing to take risks with their accounts to get them. If everyone has radar, there is no advantage.This sort of thing is why I thing voice chat should be built in also. We all know the "proffesional guilds/gamers" will use vent. Get voice built in and everyone will at least try it out and be on equel footing. Maybe they will like it and everyone will be on vent in the end.
______________
Mark E. Cooper
AKA Tohrment
Proud member of Damned Souls since 2007.
http://www.damnedsouls.eu
See.. I really think having no stealth and radar will make it impossible for a game to utilize scouting effectively. I mean.. sure, you can run up the mountainside.. hide behind a tree or large bush.. and watch. Though, if someone ventures close enough.. they'll see a little red blip on their screen, even though completely unaware of their presence.
"Oh, a scout! Get him" - followed by two full battle groups pounding the scout to bits.
And lets hope that the scout has a decent enough rig to max out his view distance. You might be able to use terrain to your advantage.. but not as a scout, unless it's a straggler that finds you.
a) bring them back to his group
or
b) get back fast enough to tell them to run
If you guys volunteer the player with a bad comp, who can't render the long distance, then the group is to blame, not the game mechanic lol.
I understand the reasoning on why Mythic may put in radar (Because people will hack it in).
IM just saddened because that would be a defeatest attitude. I suppose the same could be said about selling currency, selling Levels for a fee, and pre leveled characters through the Mythic site, "may as well, because we cannot stop them". I can see all of these kinds of options becoming available. It just seems sad because we are letting a seperate (and shady) entity define the gaming experience. Heck, Mythic could code in thier own in game message spam to promote their currency business too.
I understand the argument for having it. I guess I just wonder where should the line be drawn?
Torrential
Torrential: DAOC (Pendragon)
Awned: World of Warcraft (Lothar)
Torren: Warhammer Online (Praag)