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Drugs In Baseball
upallnight
Member Posts: 1,154
Well, the list came out about baseball players using steroids. I have to admit, I'm very disappointed.
I'm a huge baseball fan, and now I feel like the wind has been knocked out of me when it comes to this whole thing. I'm not sure I can forgive these players on this issue. I remember when I was a kid and how I looked up to my favorite baseball players as total hero's. Lot's of kids do. Now they are going to hear this.
How wrong for them to do this, and how disappointing. 
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The following players were connected to steroids, either use or possession, in the report:
Lenny Dykstra
David Segui
Larry Bigbie
Brian Roberts
Jack Cust
Tim Laker
Josias Manzanillo
Todd Hundley
Mark Carreon
Hal Morris
Matt Franco
Rondell White
Andy Pettitte
Roger Clemens
Chuck Knoblauch
Jason Grimsley
Gregg Zaun
David Justice
F.P. Santangelo
Glenallen Hill
Mo Vaughn
Denny Neagle
Ron Villone
Ryan Franklin
Chris Donnels
Todd Williams
Phil Hiatt
Todd Pratt
Kevin Young
Mike Lansing
Cody McKay
Kent Mercker
Adam Piatt
Miguel Tejada
Jason Christiansen
Mike Stanton
Stephen Randolph
Jerry Hairston
Paul Lo Duca
Adam Riggs
Bart Miadich
Fernando Vina
Kevin Brown
Eric Gagne
Mike Bell
Matt Herges
Gary Bennett
Jim Parque
Brendan Donnelly
Chad Allen
Jeff Williams
Exavier "Nook" Logan
Howie Clark
Paxton Crawford
Ken Caminiti
Rafael Palmeiro
Luis Perez
Derrick Turnbow
Ricky Bones
Ricky Stone
The following players were cited under "Alleged Internet Purchases of Performance Enhancing Substances By Players in Major League Baseball."
Rick Ankiel
David Bell
Paul Byrd
Jose Canseco
Jay Gibbons
Troy Glaus
Jason Grimsley
Jose Guillen
Darren Holmes
Gary Matthews Jr.
John Rocker
Scott Schoeneweis
Ismael Valdez
Matt Williams
Steve Woodard
The following players were linked through BALCO:
Benito Santiago
Gary Sheffield
Randy Velarde
Jason Giambi
Jeremy Giambi
Bobby Estalella
Barry Bonds
Marvin Benard
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Comments
I am a HUGE baseball fan, as you can tell most likely.
I have played baseball most of my life, from little league on up through college and I can say that I have very little problem with players taking steriods. I had my suspicions about a couple teammates in high school and college but it was not something that was talked about. The biggest thing on my college team was Creatine (sp?) that they guys used as a workout supplement or for fun and comraderie, a few would break open a capsule and down the stuff right before a game, calling them "WAM!! pills."
These guys are professional athletes, and by professional I mean they get payed to play the game and not necessarily how they conduct themselves. They are trying to be the best player they can be within an average 5-10 year career window. I can't blame them for seeing other people and eachother doing it and getting paid, and realizing maybe they should do it too. If it was not for the fact that it is illegal to do steriods I would have zero problems with it.
Everyone talks about "Oh the children...ohhh the children are watching them." I tell them to shut up and be a good parent and they won't have to worry about it. Kids watch all kinds of things on TV; thieves being honored and considered good guys, killing being rewarded, dancing with the stars, all vile crimes. That does not mean they are going to run out and do that stuff. Once the child is 18, guess what it is up to them then.
Steriods has not hurt the sport of baseball, infact it has revived it and that fact is well documented. Cheating has been going on for forever in this sport some is glorified like Gaylord Perry and his spit ball, while others are cast aside and reprimanded like Raphiel Palmerio. The only thing that has hurt the sport is the fact that steriods are actually harmful to the body when not carefully monitered or needed and players are breaking down more suddenly instead of the graduale slide we used to see in a players career. Look at the names and look at how many injuries they had/have: Eric Gagne, Mo Vaughn, Todd Hundley, Kevin Brown, Derrick Turnbow plus obviously more. All great talents who had a rash of injuries constantly.
I will keep loving, watching and play the sport of baseball. Steriods and HGH won't deter that.
"It is easier to be cruel than wise. The road to wisdom is long and difficult... so most people just turn out to be assholes" Feng (Christopher Walken)
I don't think you understand the nature of the problem. The kids have dreams of becoming Baseball players when they are kids. They see all these professionals using Steroids/HGH or whatever. What are they to think?..... They need to take steroids to make it.
Steroids is not healthy at all in the long run, and people shouldn't be influenced to take it to be a pro ball player.
(When I say kids, I mean anyone 18 or under)
IMO: Anyone on that list should not be in the Hall of Fame (unless their allegation is not serious at all)
No Hall of Fame for Bonds, Clemens, Pettite etc.
What's important to me is taking care of myself so that I can be there for the people I love and who love me back. Not feel some sense of accomplishment because of how much money I was able to pull in. I would not take a million dollars over the chance to have even and extra week of life so that I could enjoy it with others who I care about. That's what is important. It doesn't matter to me if I spent that extra time just sitting on the porch drinking Coke's and shooting the shit, that time is priceless.
It's been shown time and time and time again that steroids hurt people. And there has been story after story of athletes who's health has been compromised. They gave up time with their loved ones for money. It's a deal with the devil. Plain and simple.
Oh, and as far as bad parenting goes. I don't know about that deal either. I remember when I was a kid. I was very impressionable when it came to athletes. My parents could have told me a hundred million times not to do something, but if I saw an athlete do it then I thought it was cool. At that age parents are okay, but they are nowhere near as cool or hip as athletes. Kids are impressionable. It's got nothing to do with parenting. It's just a part of growing up for some people. And to think that not only do these people throw away time in their lives for money, but also disregard their place in society makes this even more horrible.
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I don't understand why everybody isn't taking steroid in every sport. If the point of the game is to win, then why not do everything in your power to win? It just shows that you care more about whatever your participating in because you didn't want to lose. I'd do everything in my power to get ahead and to avoid losing. What ever happened to "In victory magnanimity - in defeat DEFIANCE!"
On Time? On Target? Never Quit?
And that's why you don't watch baseball (not like I can if I want to anyways) or any other sport. The elite sport is boring because they have lost track, sport is supposed to be fun not something on life and death.
You know I am usually down with things you bring up here and points you make, however, this is not one of them. My highlights show you where your arguement loses steam. You have to remember that everyone in society does not share the same values as you do. You of all people should know that. I totally see your point and respect it, because that is the path I took. I could have took steriods or HGH in college, hell it might have put me just over the edge to actually get drafted. But I chose not to...my fastball topped out at 89 mph...who knows maybe hitting 91-93 as a lefty would have put me over the top. I chose my future health.
Professional athletes are individuals who have to make their own call on their life. I won't presume to tell them what they should and should not do to their own bodies. My problem is the fact that steriods are illegal and that is where people/players should have known better. I already agreed with you on the fact that over a long period of time non-prescription steriods can be/are very damaging to the human body. That is going to have to be the deterant they keep hitting on. I agree 100% that it is the proverbial "deal with the devil," but in the end it is their deal to make or not.
Parents of student athletes are going to have to have a clue about what is going on in the sports their child is in. I am going to make a generalization here to a degree, but from my past experiences I feel I am correct. A parent of a kid in football/baseball are going to have to be concerned about steriod use just as a parent of a basketball/soccer player should be concerned about the use of weed. Both are dangerous and both are rampant within their respective sports at ALL levels of play. A parent can only do their best to guild and suggest despite outside factors (such as peer pressure and athletes on TV). If the kid respects their parents, themselves and have knowledge about consequences of their actions, then they will make one choice...if the opposite holds true, they will make a different decision.
"It is easier to be cruel than wise. The road to wisdom is long and difficult... so most people just turn out to be assholes" Feng (Christopher Walken)
I just don't get the obsession with celebrities and the media in this country. Everytime I see something like this I ask myself one quick question, "How does this affect my daily life?"
100% of the time it doesn't and I go back to whatever i was doing.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
Does it matter, really?
If that list has anything to say about performance we can gather that only a select few performed better because they had talent and better hand eye coordination. I know players who spring training here that juiced and suck horribly at the game compared to others.
What I am saying is I don't think that any player juicing has an increased edge over the guy who doesn't. There are several editorials on this subject and scientifically suggestive of it's findings that steroids do not make a player better at baseball, they do not enhance a talent that isn't already there. Steroids are to help metabolic function and increase strength. Look at the older players who are skinny and have barely any muscle and they lead in the record books for years. Mantle is one of them and Babe Ruth was a fat pig when he played.
It takes talent and lots of years of muscle memory and control to play like these guys who are the best, like Bonds. Strength in baseball is not something that will make you hit a ball better with hand eye coordination or have accurate throwing. It's like golf, when you hit the ball to hard you have poor shots, but tempo and rhythm you hit nice longer shots.
This is nothing more than a symptom of an illness in our culture right now. Nothing matters to anyone anymore except their selfish impression that they have "won" something or made it on top of the pile.
My religion teaches striving to have a humble nature and show humility towards other people. When I have lived by this standard it has done nothing but improved my outlook on life. I'll stick with it because if works.
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All Rights Reversed
kick those bums out and fine them up the a
What's really sad in my opinion is not that all the players were using steroids, but the MLB looked the other way for so many years.
base ball is a human GAME, performance enhancers is not something that is part of the normal human body.
and when it comes down to this guy wins because he's willing to hurt himself with drugs, and the other guy doesn't. it's pretty much losing all around.
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
To me it sounds like you're saying to compete in the major leagues you now have to just accept the fact that you are going to need to take drugs that are proven to be catastrophic on your body. And you seem to be okay with that?
I like the idea of the old fashioned prerequisites. You know, love of the sport and a natural talent that a person worked hard to perfect.
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Your entire point hinges on the part I highlighted and underlined. Please post the names of the books, articles, anything... supporthing this "fact" you have based everything you have said.
Your entire point hinges on the part I highlighted and underlined. Please post the names of the books, articles, anything... supporthing this "fact" you have based everything you have said.
I appreciate that you are questioning my point of view, here is a NY Times article excerpt:
"The hearings were partly prompted by Mr. Canseco's book, "Juiced," in which he wrote about his own steroid use and asserted that he had injected the drugs into Mr. McGwire. Mr. McGwire said he did not "intend to dignify Mr. Canseco's book" by discussing its specific charges.
The setup provided a striking tableau, with five of the players, dressed in business suits, sitting at the same table facing the panel. Past glory connected some of the participants like a frayed thread. Mr. McGwire and Mr. Canseco, now at odds over Mr. Canseco's steroid accusations, thrilled fans as young sluggers in Oakland, where they earned them the nickname "The Bash Brothers." And Mr. McGwire and Mr. Sosa riveted the nation when they chased Roger Maris's single-season home run record in 1998, with Mr. McGwire finishing with 70 homers to 66 for Mr. Sosa. Their exploits were widely credited with reviving baseball after a period of labor strife, lower television ratings and declining attendance."
Here is an excerpt from Hall of Fame Magazine:
"He hit more than 500 home runs, which has always provided an automatic pass into Cooperstown. He also hit 49 home runs as a rookie, when he was rail-thin and years before any steroid accusations were leveled. More importantly, his 70-homer season in 1998 (along with his duel with Sammy Sosa, who hit 66) brought baseball back into the national spotlight, ridding the game of the apathy that had consumed it since the lockout of 1994. At the time, many people credited McGwire and Sosa with reviving baseball, and maybe even saving the game. What's changed? Unproven allegations of illegal drug use. Key word here – Unproven."
Here is a nice article:
"The result has fanned the flames of a debate that has been dogging baseball for years. In order to fully appreciate the fervor of this discussion, it's necessary to recall the player's strike of 1994-95. In the wake of the stoppage, baseball's popularity sunk to an unprecedented low. Both owners and players were seen as greedy, selfish millionaires squabbling over still more millions. When the games finally did resume, they were held in half empty stadiums and to paltry television ratings. It seemed that the sport would never again live up to its "national pastime" moniker.
Enter Mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa. In 1998, the two were credited for reviving interest in baseball with their respective shattering of Roger Maris' 1961 single season home run record of 61. McGwire finished with 70 home runs, Sosa with 66, and fans and the media came running back to stare, mouths agape, as these two beefy sluggers launched pitch after pitch into the bleachers.
But even amid this celebrated renaissance, there was controversy. That same year, a reporter noticed a bottle of the supplement androstenedione in McGwire's locker. Though technically legal at the time, the line separating "andro" from a bona fide steroid was murky at best. Debate raged, but little official action ensued (apart from vague promises from league commissioner Bud Selig's office to "investigate" and "reform"). McGwire and Sosa, muscle-bound as ever, returned the next year to hit 65 and 63 home runs, respectively.
Thanks in large part to these back-to-back home run races, baseball's popularity was restored, if not surpassed. But the price for this return has been a growing cloud of suspicion hanging over the sport. Since 1998, MVPs and slugging stars like Jason Giambi, Gary Sheffield, and Barry Bonds (who surpassed McGwire's record with 73 home runs in 2001), have variously been confronted by allegations of steroid use. Canseco, with his own allegations, is merely following in a well-established tradition of doping accusations. "
I know my point of view may be way out of left field (so to speak) but it really speaks to the heart of the matter. Baseball as much as I consider it a way of life is a sport meant to entertain the mass, that is it. The fact that people take it more than that is of their own fruition. Like Charles Barkley said, "I am not a roll model, that is a parents job." (please forgive me if I paraphrased that, but it was his point). Yes baseball is "America's Pastime", but people only go when they are entertained and enthralled. Steriod brought that feeling back with Mark McGuire and Sammy Sosa. I am not in denial, even though those two have never been found to do anything elegal (yet), you can toally tell. Just look at Sammy Sosa's rookie baseball card and get a chuckle when you look at the '98 version.
Most scouts can already tell when someone is using in college, how do I know, I used to speak with scouts for the pro's alot. They were friends or friends of friends. This stuff was taken into consideration when drafting came around. Yes some players have natural talent and that is great, that is what many considered me to be. No one in my family was athletic in the least bit, I did not start playing organized baseball until my 8th grade year of school, yet I went farther than almost all my friends. Steriods does make a difference for some people in getting drafted, but the problem will always be injuries and quick declines. Why do you think they hold a draft every year? The number of teams doesn't increase...player fall out get injured and never return. Steriods help some stay on the field a while longer, but in the end kill their bodies. Different people have different priorities..I am not one to tell someone what to do until I have kids. Athletes are professional adults, let them make their own decisions.
"It is easier to be cruel than wise. The road to wisdom is long and difficult... so most people just turn out to be assholes" Feng (Christopher Walken)