People who quit WoW in disgust because of the repetitive gear grind like me tend to think that it's impossible that WoW numbers manage to rise all the time while people quit.
I actually belive that they count active + inactive accounts. Fact is, nobody can verify.
But... why would they market false numbers? They could say they have 4 millions active suscribers, they still would be the n°1 MMO company.
But... on the other hand they are forced to market their game as evergrowing in number, otherwise the masses would start thinking that declining numbers = sucky game, and maybe less people would suscribe, or no people at all.
Pretty much the opposite strategy of Sony who does their best to hide their suscription numbers not to admit their games sucks and are underpopulated.
My addiction History: >> EQ1 2000-2004 - Shaman/Bard/Wizard/Monk - nolife raid-whore >> WoW 2004-2009 + Cataclysm for 2 months - hardcore casual >> Current status : done with MMO, too old for that crap.
People who quit WoW in disgust because of the repetitive gear grind like me tend to think that it's impossible that WoW numbers manage to rise all the time while people quit. I actually belive that they count active + inactive accounts. Fact is, nobody can verify. But... why would they market false numbers? They could say they have 4 millions active suscribers, they still would be the n°1 MMO company. But... on the other hand they are forced to market their game as evergrowing in number, otherwise the masses would start thinking that declining numbers = sucky game, and maybe less people would suscribe, or no people at all. Pretty much the opposite strategy of Sony who does their best to hide their suscription numbers not to admit their games sucks and are underpopulated.
I don't know that they make up the numbers, but they post them when they got them. Did you notice that for 10 months they did not report a single number of subscribers? Kinda odd isn't it after they were stroking themselves so hard prior to TBC? Notice how this 8.5million subs is shortly after the release of TBC for free in China along with the fact that the accounts created (Note they are free to start there) will count untill canceled and with the fact that it is pay to play (2 cents I believe it is per hour) that they could keep open accounts without paying for them which basicly count towards the numbers. China has over 1billion people and are being offered this game to hold open for free basicly so the numbers they lose in the UK/US they wait for it to come back from in China numbers.
Ever wonder why that chinese guy in your guild has 3, 4 or more accounts? That is why (Well beyond the 3 hour limit to video games put on them per day due to regulations for kids under 18). Great way to bolster those numbers to report I say.
WOW is still in the top selling PC games list month after month. I guess Blizzard is making the sales numbers up from outlets not owned by them?
Basically, Blizzard defines what a subscriber is right on the website. Its been linked in the thread already. If they lied it would be lawsuit time. Its like cooking the books. Can't do that. A small time niche developer could more easily lie about their numbers because NO ONE CARES about them.
People who quit WoW in disgust because of the repetitive gear grind like me tend to think that it's impossible that WoW numbers manage to rise all the time while people quit. I actually belive that they count active + inactive accounts. Fact is, nobody can verify. But... why would they market false numbers? They could say they have 4 millions active suscribers, they still would be the n°1 MMO company. But... on the other hand they are forced to market their game as evergrowing in number, otherwise the masses would start thinking that declining numbers = sucky game, and maybe less people would suscribe, or no people at all. Pretty much the opposite strategy of Sony who does their best to hide their suscription numbers not to admit their games sucks and are underpopulated.
Don't be ignorant mate.
These figures are released in the accounts of a publicly owned company. Everyone can verify. You yourself can verify them on Vivendi's website, where they are published for your pleasure.
Marketing false numbers is called false advertising and is a criminal offense in Europe and a civil offense in the U.S.
Falsifying the accounts of a publicly owned company is a criminal offense everywhere. Vivendi isn't Enron.
When their numbers do start to fall, they will simply do what all the other companies have done when their figures start to fall. Go very silent about it.
This thread prove one point that some researchers and scholars are worried about. The internet breed stupidity/ignorance. They didnt use that phrase but its the core of what they say. People talk out their ass so to speak, inventing stuff as they go not bothering to back it up in any way.
I really dont know why this is being discussed at all. Vivendi is a multinational company which owns Universal Music, Canal+ Group, SFR, Marco Telecom and Vivendi Games(which Blizzard is a part of). They have an annual report going back a few years where the numbers are all in black and white. Now, why should they lie about it?
Allthough Blizzard earns it keep, and then some, its a drop in the ocean to what Universal make annually(just to make an example why lying about it is fruitless). Also to remember is that its a criminal offence to post false numbers as a company in the west. Its called fraud and is punishable by jailtime upto 10 years here in Norway. Dunno about the US and the rest of Europe, but I'm sure its against the law in most countries in the west.
Edit:Duh...basically said the same as the guy over me...Oh well, great minds think alike
This thread prove one point that some researchers and scholars are worried about. The internet breed stupidity/ignorance. They didnt use that phrase but its the core of what they say. People talk out their ass so to speak, inventing stuff as they go not bothering to back it up in any way. I really dont know why this is being discussed at all. Vivendi is a multinational company which owns Universal Music, Canal+ Group, SFR, Marco Telecom and Vivendi Games(which Blizzard is a part of). They have an annual report going back a few years where the numbers are all in black and white. Now, why should they lie about it? Allthough Blizzard earns it keep, and then some, its a drop in the ocean to what Universal make annually(just to make an example why lying about it is fruitless). Also to remember is that its a criminal offence to post false numbers as a company in the west. Its called fraud and is punishable by jailtime upto 10 years here in Norway. Dunno about the US and the rest of Europe, but I'm sure its against the law in most countries in the west.
Edit:Duh...basically said the same as the guy over me...Oh well, great minds think alike
People who quit WoW in disgust because of the repetitive gear grind like me tend to think that it's impossible that WoW numbers manage to rise all the time while people quit. I actually belive that they count active + inactive accounts. Fact is, nobody can verify. But... why would they market false numbers? They could say they have 4 millions active suscribers, they still would be the n°1 MMO company. But... on the other hand they are forced to market their game as evergrowing in number, otherwise the masses would start thinking that declining numbers = sucky game, and maybe less people would suscribe, or no people at all. Pretty much the opposite strategy of Sony who does their best to hide their suscription numbers not to admit their games sucks and are underpopulated.
Don't be ignorant mate.
These figures are released in the accounts of a publicly owned company. Everyone can verify. You yourself can verify them on Vivendi's website, where they are published for your pleasure.
Marketing false numbers is called false advertising and is a criminal offense in Europe and a civil offense in the U.S.
Falsifying the accounts of a publicly owned company is a criminal offense everywhere. Vivendi isn't Enron.
When their numbers do start to fall, they will simply do what all the other companies have done when their figures start to fall. Go very silent about it.
While I have to agree with this there is one thing you should not be ignorant about. You will never know if Vivendi is Enron or not. No one knew Enron was Enron untill it was to late except for thoes breaking the law to begin with. Like I said, overall I agree with you but it is ignorance to think a company isnt capable of being the next Enron.
Last time i checked the number of subscribers i got 9.3 million and that was on multiple web sites so maybe its true and it is amazing that Blizzard and World of Warcraft got so many people to play their game.
People who quit WoW in disgust because of the repetitive gear grind like me tend to think that it's impossible that WoW numbers manage to rise all the time while people quit. I actually belive that they count active + inactive accounts. Fact is, nobody can verify. But... why would they market false numbers? They could say they have 4 millions active suscribers, they still would be the n°1 MMO company. But... on the other hand they are forced to market their game as evergrowing in number, otherwise the masses would start thinking that declining numbers = sucky game, and maybe less people would suscribe, or no people at all. Pretty much the opposite strategy of Sony who does their best to hide their suscription numbers not to admit their games sucks and are underpopulated.
Don't be ignorant mate.
These figures are released in the accounts of a publicly owned company. Everyone can verify. You yourself can verify them on Vivendi's website, where they are published for your pleasure.
Marketing false numbers is called false advertising and is a criminal offense in Europe and a civil offense in the U.S.
Falsifying the accounts of a publicly owned company is a criminal offense everywhere. Vivendi isn't Enron.
When their numbers do start to fall, they will simply do what all the other companies have done when their figures start to fall. Go very silent about it.
While I have to agree with this there is one thing you should not be ignorant about. You will never know if Vivendi is Enron or not. No one knew Enron was Enron untill it was to late except for thoes breaking the law to begin with. Like I said, overall I agree with you but it is ignorance to think a company isnt capable of being the next Enron.
Lol jesus christ now people talking about Enron status. Seriously people here are living in some other world. Do some of you really despise blizzard and wow that much that you really cannot read and understand information and facts given?
Hey i know lest all praise Aventurine for being the greatest game ever and beleive everythign they say, because obviuosly they know how to make games. Blizzard is a world class compnay with years and years of world class gaming titles behind them, if other gaming companies actually decided to make games with more though they would maybe have the number of players blizzard has. Yes Vivendi is Enron we are all doomed, seriously people on this site really need to wake up and get some clue about why the game they play fails and why the compnay behind the game they play files for bankruptcy.
Don't be ignorant mate. These figures are released in the accounts of a publicly owned company. Everyone can verify. You yourself can verify them on Vivendi's website, where they are published for your pleasure. Marketing false numbers is called false advertising and is a criminal offense in Europe and a civil offense in the U.S. Falsifying the accounts of a publicly owned company is a criminal offense everywhere. Vivendi isn't Enron. When their numbers do start to fall, they will simply do what all the other companies have done when their figures start to fall. Go very silent about it.
Lying is a fraud...? So what? All company lies: Intel, AMD, Microsoft, Infogrames, Electronic Arts, Sony, Sega...
Furthermore, who would sue them for lying about subscription numbers? Nobody.
You sue a company when you have been cheated, when the product is defectual, when the product wasn't delivered.
If a company tells you that it sold 1 billion products and it's not true, it's a lie, but it's not a fraud.
Also, remember that nobody here said that Blizzard is lying about the number of subscription they had since WoW launched: people are expressing doubts that the number of active accounts are as high as Blizzard want us to believe. Myself, i believe they count active + innactive accounts.
And i'm sorry, no one can verify, except the billing departement of Blizzard. And they tell you whatever they want to.
My addiction History: >> EQ1 2000-2004 - Shaman/Bard/Wizard/Monk - nolife raid-whore >> WoW 2004-2009 + Cataclysm for 2 months - hardcore casual >> Current status : done with MMO, too old for that crap.
Don't be ignorant mate. These figures are released in the accounts of a publicly owned company. Everyone can verify. You yourself can verify them on Vivendi's website, where they are published for your pleasure. Marketing false numbers is called false advertising and is a criminal offense in Europe and a civil offense in the U.S. Falsifying the accounts of a publicly owned company is a criminal offense everywhere. Vivendi isn't Enron. When their numbers do start to fall, they will simply do what all the other companies have done when their figures start to fall. Go very silent about it.
Lying is a fraud...? So what? All company lies: Intel, AMD, Microsoft, Infogrames, Electronic Arts, Sony, Sega...
Furthermore, who would sue them for lying about subscription numbers? Nobody.
You sue a company when you have been cheated, when the product is defectual, when the product wasn't delivered.
If a company tells you that it sold 1 billion products and it's not true, it's a lie, but it's not a fraud.
Also, remember that nobody here said that Blizzard is lying about the number of subscription they had since WoW launched: people are expressing doubts that the number of active accounts are as high as Blizzard want us to believe. Myself, i believe they count active + innactive accounts.
And i'm sorry, no one can verify, except the billing departement of Blizzard. And they tell you whatever they want to.
IF Vivendi was falsely reporting numbers then the Government would arrest them. It is a CRIMINAL offense in Europe. Which means there is no suing. There is just jail.
IF a company says they have sold 1 billion products and they haven't then it is FRAUD. They are commiting Fraud because it falsely pumps their companies value up. Which is FRAUD. They can't count active and inactive accounts and then claim that is how many current subscribers the game has because that is FRAUD. Which once again would get them sent to JAIL.
A company can not inflate the value of their company by falsely reporting income because that is fraud and causes their stock price to raise illegally.
Blizzard is not falsely reporting their numbers. IF they say they have 9.3 million active subscribers then they have 9.3 million ACTIVE subscribers.
The only thing we can't be sure of is where those subscribers are. For all we know there could be 6 million in Asia or there could be 8 million in Asia now and the subscribers in America and Europe could of gone down. We won't know that unless Blizzard releases that information.
But any information that Blizzard does release is true or they would have gotten in trouble by now and a lot of Vivendi and Blizzard employees would be in jail. Mainly the Top people.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
if Vivendi/Blizzard want to commit fraud - would be wiser to report LESS numbers - and pocket the cash from unreported subs
Look at who's arguing the numbers. I couldn't imagine any of them are out of highschool . WHat possible benefit is there for Blizzard lie about the numbers. Once you go above a few million and blast the records out of the water, whats another 1 or 2 mil?
Now! Go educate yourself a little. This is basic law which most people know about. Especially note that False claims and statements is considered a fraud and is therefore punishable by the law.
If you still want to discuss this, then...well...it would say alot of what kinda person you are. Not saying that companies had, do and will continue to produce bogus numbers to boost their interest and income, cause some do. But they risk jail and bankruptcy by doing so and mostly do so in an attempt to 'get rich' quickly. It is counter-productive by Blizzard, as they are a success already, to lie about their numbers as they will lose out on alot of revenue by doing so. If caught, the company will get a big fine, the execs guilty will be fined and most likely fired, they would risk jailtime and all in all be just bloody stupid business-wise. Therefore its HIGHLY unlikely that they do lie about them.
What I find more interesting to discuss, not to talk more realistic, is the breakdown of the numbers between Asia, US and Europe.
Comments
People who quit WoW in disgust because of the repetitive gear grind like me tend to think that it's impossible that WoW numbers manage to rise all the time while people quit.
I actually belive that they count active + inactive accounts. Fact is, nobody can verify.
But... why would they market false numbers? They could say they have 4 millions active suscribers, they still would be the n°1 MMO company.
But... on the other hand they are forced to market their game as evergrowing in number, otherwise the masses would start thinking that declining numbers = sucky game, and maybe less people would suscribe, or no people at all.
Pretty much the opposite strategy of Sony who does their best to hide their suscription numbers not to admit their games sucks and are underpopulated.
My addiction History:
>> EQ1 2000-2004 - Shaman/Bard/Wizard/Monk - nolife raid-whore
>> WoW 2004-2009 + Cataclysm for 2 months - hardcore casual
>> Current status : done with MMO, too old for that crap.
I don't know that they make up the numbers, but they post them when they got them. Did you notice that for 10 months they did not report a single number of subscribers? Kinda odd isn't it after they were stroking themselves so hard prior to TBC? Notice how this 8.5million subs is shortly after the release of TBC for free in China along with the fact that the accounts created (Note they are free to start there) will count untill canceled and with the fact that it is pay to play (2 cents I believe it is per hour) that they could keep open accounts without paying for them which basicly count towards the numbers. China has over 1billion people and are being offered this game to hold open for free basicly so the numbers they lose in the UK/US they wait for it to come back from in China numbers.
Ever wonder why that chinese guy in your guild has 3, 4 or more accounts? That is why (Well beyond the 3 hour limit to video games put on them per day due to regulations for kids under 18). Great way to bolster those numbers to report I say.
WOW is still in the top selling PC games list month after month. I guess Blizzard is making the sales numbers up from outlets not owned by them?
Basically, Blizzard defines what a subscriber is right on the website. Its been linked in the thread already. If they lied it would be lawsuit time. Its like cooking the books. Can't do that. A small time niche developer could more easily lie about their numbers because NO ONE CARES about them.
Don't be ignorant mate.
These figures are released in the accounts of a publicly owned company. Everyone can verify. You yourself can verify them on Vivendi's website, where they are published for your pleasure.
Marketing false numbers is called false advertising and is a criminal offense in Europe and a civil offense in the U.S.
Falsifying the accounts of a publicly owned company is a criminal offense everywhere. Vivendi isn't Enron.
When their numbers do start to fall, they will simply do what all the other companies have done when their figures start to fall. Go very silent about it.
This thread prove one point that some researchers and scholars are worried about. The internet breed stupidity/ignorance. They didnt use that phrase but its the core of what they say. People talk out their ass so to speak, inventing stuff as they go not bothering to back it up in any way.
I really dont know why this is being discussed at all. Vivendi is a multinational company which owns Universal Music, Canal+ Group, SFR, Marco Telecom and Vivendi Games(which Blizzard is a part of). They have an annual report going back a few years where the numbers are all in black and white. Now, why should they lie about it?
Allthough Blizzard earns it keep, and then some, its a drop in the ocean to what Universal make annually(just to make an example why lying about it is fruitless). Also to remember is that its a criminal offence to post false numbers as a company in the west. Its called fraud and is punishable by jailtime upto 10 years here in Norway. Dunno about the US and the rest of Europe, but I'm sure its against the law in most countries in the west.
Edit:Duh...basically said the same as the guy over me...Oh well, great minds think alike
---
Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.
QFT
Don't be ignorant mate.
These figures are released in the accounts of a publicly owned company. Everyone can verify. You yourself can verify them on Vivendi's website, where they are published for your pleasure.
Marketing false numbers is called false advertising and is a criminal offense in Europe and a civil offense in the U.S.
Falsifying the accounts of a publicly owned company is a criminal offense everywhere. Vivendi isn't Enron.
When their numbers do start to fall, they will simply do what all the other companies have done when their figures start to fall. Go very silent about it.
While I have to agree with this there is one thing you should not be ignorant about. You will never know if Vivendi is Enron or not. No one knew Enron was Enron untill it was to late except for thoes breaking the law to begin with. Like I said, overall I agree with you but it is ignorance to think a company isnt capable of being the next Enron.
Don't be ignorant mate.
These figures are released in the accounts of a publicly owned company. Everyone can verify. You yourself can verify them on Vivendi's website, where they are published for your pleasure.
Marketing false numbers is called false advertising and is a criminal offense in Europe and a civil offense in the U.S.
Falsifying the accounts of a publicly owned company is a criminal offense everywhere. Vivendi isn't Enron.
When their numbers do start to fall, they will simply do what all the other companies have done when their figures start to fall. Go very silent about it.
While I have to agree with this there is one thing you should not be ignorant about. You will never know if Vivendi is Enron or not. No one knew Enron was Enron untill it was to late except for thoes breaking the law to begin with. Like I said, overall I agree with you but it is ignorance to think a company isnt capable of being the next Enron.
Lol jesus christ now people talking about Enron status. Seriously people here are living in some other world. Do some of you really despise blizzard and wow that much that you really cannot read and understand information and facts given?
Hey i know lest all praise Aventurine for being the greatest game ever and beleive everythign they say, because obviuosly they know how to make games. Blizzard is a world class compnay with years and years of world class gaming titles behind them, if other gaming companies actually decided to make games with more though they would maybe have the number of players blizzard has. Yes Vivendi is Enron we are all doomed, seriously people on this site really need to wake up and get some clue about why the game they play fails and why the compnay behind the game they play files for bankruptcy.
Lying is a fraud...? So what? All company lies: Intel, AMD, Microsoft, Infogrames, Electronic Arts, Sony, Sega...
Furthermore, who would sue them for lying about subscription numbers? Nobody.
You sue a company when you have been cheated, when the product is defectual, when the product wasn't delivered.
If a company tells you that it sold 1 billion products and it's not true, it's a lie, but it's not a fraud.
Also, remember that nobody here said that Blizzard is lying about the number of subscription they had since WoW launched: people are expressing doubts that the number of active accounts are as high as Blizzard want us to believe. Myself, i believe they count active + innactive accounts.
And i'm sorry, no one can verify, except the billing departement of Blizzard. And they tell you whatever they want to.
My addiction History:
>> EQ1 2000-2004 - Shaman/Bard/Wizard/Monk - nolife raid-whore
>> WoW 2004-2009 + Cataclysm for 2 months - hardcore casual
>> Current status : done with MMO, too old for that crap.
Lying is a fraud...? So what? All company lies: Intel, AMD, Microsoft, Infogrames, Electronic Arts, Sony, Sega...
Furthermore, who would sue them for lying about subscription numbers? Nobody.
You sue a company when you have been cheated, when the product is defectual, when the product wasn't delivered.
If a company tells you that it sold 1 billion products and it's not true, it's a lie, but it's not a fraud.
Also, remember that nobody here said that Blizzard is lying about the number of subscription they had since WoW launched: people are expressing doubts that the number of active accounts are as high as Blizzard want us to believe. Myself, i believe they count active + innactive accounts.
And i'm sorry, no one can verify, except the billing departement of Blizzard. And they tell you whatever they want to.
IF Vivendi was falsely reporting numbers then the Government would arrest them. It is a CRIMINAL offense in Europe. Which means there is no suing. There is just jail.IF a company says they have sold 1 billion products and they haven't then it is FRAUD. They are commiting Fraud because it falsely pumps their companies value up. Which is FRAUD. They can't count active and inactive accounts and then claim that is how many current subscribers the game has because that is FRAUD. Which once again would get them sent to JAIL.
A company can not inflate the value of their company by falsely reporting income because that is fraud and causes their stock price to raise illegally.
Blizzard is not falsely reporting their numbers. IF they say they have 9.3 million active subscribers then they have 9.3 million ACTIVE subscribers.
The only thing we can't be sure of is where those subscribers are. For all we know there could be 6 million in Asia or there could be 8 million in Asia now and the subscribers in America and Europe could of gone down. We won't know that unless Blizzard releases that information.
But any information that Blizzard does release is true or they would have gotten in trouble by now and a lot of Vivendi and Blizzard employees would be in jail. Mainly the Top people.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
if Vivendi/Blizzard want to commit fraud
- would be wiser to report LESS numbers - and pocket the cash from unreported subs
EQ2 fan sites
Look at who's arguing the numbers. I couldn't imagine any of them are out of highschool . WHat possible benefit is there for Blizzard lie about the numbers. Once you go above a few million and blast the records out of the water, whats another 1 or 2 mil?
Definition of fraud, with a nice example at the bottom perfectly fitting to end the discussion if Blizzard/Vivendi lies about the numbers or not.
www.aicpa.org/pubs/jofa/oct2004/lawrence.htm
Now! Go educate yourself a little. This is basic law which most people know about. Especially note that False claims and statements is considered a fraud and is therefore punishable by the law.
If you still want to discuss this, then...well...it would say alot of what kinda person you are. Not saying that companies had, do and will continue to produce bogus numbers to boost their interest and income, cause some do. But they risk jail and bankruptcy by doing so and mostly do so in an attempt to 'get rich' quickly. It is counter-productive by Blizzard, as they are a success already, to lie about their numbers as they will lose out on alot of revenue by doing so. If caught, the company will get a big fine, the execs guilty will be fined and most likely fired, they would risk jailtime and all in all be just bloody stupid business-wise. Therefore its HIGHLY unlikely that they do lie about them.
What I find more interesting to discuss, not to talk more realistic, is the breakdown of the numbers between Asia, US and Europe.
---
Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.
Another stupid post from someone whose Mommy or Daddy won't let them raid and wants them to go play outside instead. Whaaaa!