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Community Flaw
JK-Kanosi
Member Posts: 1,357
Hello all,
I just started playing Vanguard again yesterday after finding out SOE thinks their game is good enough to welcome past players back for the holidays. Well, being that I never left for game mechanics, I was willing to give this game another go. My problem with this game last time I played it (after server merges) was the lack of grouping.
The point of this thread is to warn people of the Vanguard community on Seradon. I logged on last night and was keeping to myself while trying to find/start a group as a level 4 when I heard someone mention end-game and raiding in the same sentence. I made a comment about hoping that Vanguard doesn't turn into a raiding game, since the original vision was to cater to small group players. I was accosted with flames and assumptions that really put me off of the community. People made assumptions about me based on the fact that I didn't like to raid and was actually even insulted. One notable person was Seexxy, a Thestran player.
I never insulted anyone in that game and was appalled by the behavior of the community. For those that doubt my innocence, you can read my forum history here. I don't flame or name call at all. I am actually usually objective about things.
I'm not saying all of Seradon is like this. I think that the community is jaded. Most likely because of how bad Vanguard started and the heat the community and the game received because of it. They are also jaded by WoW players who constantly compare Vanguard to WoW and complain about Vanguard. I promise you I didn't do any of this, but paid the price for all of it. I was flamed and assumptions were made based off of what the community was used to.
I appeal to the community and urge you to realize what you are doing to good people who are giving your game a shot. You are pushing away people with your jadedness and then wander why the game is still getting negative publicity. I urge you all to talk to your guilds about this and to start policing one another on this. If new people get accosted on their first day playing, just because they have a different playstyle than the norm, new people will stop coming. Word spreads around and now you have to live down this negative thread.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
Comments
There is no Seexxy on vgplayers.com. So you probably got harrased by some idiot who eventually got banned with that name, I dunno. With a name like that I would have laughed at him and put him on ignore. I do think I remember that name in open chat.
Also it's free time. If they got nothing in the world at all to lose it brings out the best and worst of the lot. I hate open chat, if it wasn't for being able to find a group in it I'd turn that channel off.
I find the community quite helpful usually. Chat has picked up due to free time. Sorry you had a bad experience. I also agree with ya though, I prefer to do things in small groups rather than mass raids. And they may do a little bit of both who knows. Kind of a mixture of both worlds which I think may equal out for people who like to mass raid and people who like to do a lot with small groups.
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Promote what you love instead of bashing what you hate.
He exists, tho I am not sure of the spelling.
Seradon isnt THAT bad, but the chat often is spammed by several people. If you add them to your ignore list, it should be much calmer. VG players have always been sensitive like kids to all kind of critic. I try not to talk about VG in open chat at all. Just stick to game matters and discuss the game outside of chat, and you'll be fine.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Yeah, not too sure on the spelling, but he wasn't the only one anyways. Today was what I would consider normal, especially compared to the Seradon I remember several months ago. People were generally helpful and friendly. It seems that "sensitive to VG criticism" is the right phrase for what a lot of "general chat frequenters" are. Again, I wasn't criticizing the game, because we have all heard enough criticism by now. I just simply remarked that I don't like raiding and hope that this game won't be raid oriented.
I flagged myself LFG for specific quests and a dungeon today for about an hour while I completed some solo quests. I even took the initiative to ask for a group on general chat and look for people under the LFM tab. I still didn't find anyone willing to group. So it is now day 2 and still no signs of grouping. I know people are grouping at higher levels, but that does nothing for me since I am lower level, to get into the game. To be fair, I am only level 5. So I will with-hold final judgment on this game until I achieve level 10. It is discouraging to feel that I might not be able to take part in the lower level dungeon and group quests. That is a game breaker for me. To this date, the only game that hasn't been effected by top heavy population is WoW. In WoW, you still can find groups for lower level dungeons and group quests. WoW's quest bore the hell out of me though, so that game is a no go. If Vanguard cannot capture me at a lower level with a community that likes to group, then I will end up putting off MMORPG playing until WAR or AoC is released. Vanguard just isn't a good enough game to solo in, because everything you can do solo has been done before by me in other games for the past 6 years. In order to capture me for solo play, there must be a good story to follow, sandbox game play to allow me to create my own story (like SWG) with a large community of RPers, or totally new mechanics and game system that makes me want to explore its limits. Right now, the only worthwhile plot I have seen for Thestran Human's is the Academy blowing up. I already solved who did that, so I really don't have a lot of motivation to keep soloing.
If I keep soloing, the only content I am experiencing are quests that just can't compete with single player games that I own already ( e.g. Mass Effect, Assassins Creed, NWN 2). What Vanguard has is a nice class system with pretty graphics. It is also multi-player (duh!), which means I can group with others. I love grouping with others, which is why I started playing MMORPGs to begin with over 6 yrs ago. If people don't want to group at lower levels or there just simply isn't a large lower level community base, there just isn't any motivation for me to play Vanguard.
Whew! I hope I explained that well enough. Not sure if anyone else is in the same boat as me, but I am giving Vanguard a shot since SOE was generous enough to give me a free month of game time. I already like the mechanics. Now I just need to get in deep with the community. Grouping is a great way to do this. So is RP. If either one of those motivating factors find me or I find them while in-game, I might actually subscribe. My last experience several months ago ended up with me quitting. The RP community was small and hard to find and grouping was seldom at lower levels. It doesn't seem like much has changed.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
Yea Sexxxy or however its spelled is on Seradon and yer right this person can be annoying... Really dont think you are gonna find many people LFG under lvl 12-15 say i mean it is pretty easy to get there in a reasonable amount of time that most just get thru those levels to get to the group content from 12-15 and up , i always see groups spammin from that lvl range.. Anyway good luck and just push threw those lower lvls ..
It really depends on the level you are at. A lot of the people that are coming back already had toons in the 20's and 30's, so they're already starting higher than those starting anew. Even then, a good chunk of the quests are soloable. As you proceed through the 30's, you'll find more and more groups being offered and/or asked for due to the mount quests, armor quests and faster exping in general.
I just finished lvl 50, and once I max out my harvesting, will proceed to max crafting and diplomacy. After that? I'm guessing I'll be joining the other "newbies" in the newbie yards starting again. Despite making an honest effort to see everything in this game, it's just so huge that it's going to take a few characters just to take it all in LOL. Believe me, that's a compliment, not a complaint.
If you like to group at low levels play D&D online, it has a free trial and its now a great game and well populated, you will be grouping your first day, LFG pannal works great, it has built in voice chat and EVERYONE uses it, only 14 levels but it has sub levels to get new abilities so it takes a long time to get to 14. the Dungeons are by far the best with lots traps and each one has its one twist. The city is large and has 5 parts to it, so your not sitting in a tavern lfg's like you would think.
I'm back to WOW because of new player friends but I tryed them all and D&D is the only good MMO out there besides wow, Vanguard is like EQ2 its a dead game.
Ive been in game since beta and came back after patch 3.
I started a new character so i could just get the feel of the game again.. All i have to say about grouping is, yes your right, grouping is hard to find at the level you are at but thats because you can basically solo all the quests from lvls 1-25.
I made it to level 20 so far in less than 2 days and it was all solo quests but ive found a great guild and a bunch of people that are my level now. Thus ive been able to group for quite a few times doing dungeons.
All im saying is take the few days by yourself and level up, join a guild, and you will find yourself grouping like crazy.(even with non guildies)
Don't brand the whole community for a few malcontents or troublemakers. No matter the game, they will always exist. I generally turn off general chat, as there really isn't anything of real value there. The craft channel, my guild chat or diplo channel if needed is enough for me.
As far as grouping, most people generally don't start grouping until low to mid teens. That just is the way it is when people are learning their characters and the game in general, running about and exploring. Try again in a few levels and you should have sufficient willing company.
Mirrim
Chanter, Spatalos Server
I could make a post exactly like this with each and every game I have played. I could basically cut and paste the OP and insert the words "WoW" for "Vanguard."
Give me a break!
You are even too sensitive for online gaming. See a doctor, and I mean that.
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WoW and fast food = commercial successes.
I neither play WoW nor eat fast food.
it sounds to me that you really shouldnt waste time w/ MMOs....honestly. you seem to play the game more like a single player game, play for a long time but basicly stay to yourself. when it comes down to not wanting to group and not ever wanting a guild, its time to stop playing. the whole point (IMO) of an MMO is to work together and joing ppl to do things (though recent games beg to differ) i see alot of these "i can only play an hour or 2 a day and i wanna solo all the time" posts...and i know ppl get this from the recent flow of games (WoW, LOTRO, even EQ2) wich basicly truned into causal friendly solo games. why not just get a great story and save ton of money by playing offline or smaller online games that you can play alot yourself like PSU or MH? and if playing w/ your bro is somthing you like there is tons of MP RPGs like the xmen/marvel/dark allience, type games that are good for MP offline.
come on people... It's not even fair to even think for a second that everyone out there is friendly or even wants to be your friend.. Lets be serious, MOST of you have myspace accounts.. Ever had someone get completely rude with you for asking a question or even commenting on a bulletin or blog??
It's life.. Something we have to deal with is ignorance and it surrounds us. No need getting upset when the internet gaming world starts to type words onto their screens.. These little bits of 1's and 0's don't mean sh*t when it comes down to it.. Every MMO I have ever played has had those groups of dummmies, but if I like the game, I'll stick with it until eventually I meet someone worth talkin to..
To call it a community flaw is a broad generalization that has plagued the world over since the begining. It's like becoming racist because some ignorant person of another race insults you..
Suck it up, ignore or block and move on man..
But I will agree on the fanbase being jaded.. But to be honest they are overly defensive because of the utter lack of respect given by WoW players who paid to give it a try JUST to scream "WoW RuleZ!" all over the chat.. Spamming is one thing, but paying to play another game just to SPAM insults is just ignorant and slightly offensive. And the more it happened the more these so called "vanbois" felt they had the right to defend themselves..
If you are in the teens then there is always groups being made for KE or Ant Hill if you are Thestra. I think I pretty much solo'd all the way up to the teens and picked up a few people on some small quests and duo'd a few with others. I enjoyed KE more than Ant Hill.
Maybe some others can chime in with the other lands on where good groups are for low teens.
20's You can most likely get groups for TK. 30s VT, after that I don't know. I haven't really had a problem finding groups when I want to group. I've had to sacrafice many times doing a lower TK than the current one I was on in hopes they would work their way up to mine and finish the TKs. But right now any of the TKs is really good exp in the 20s due to double exp.
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Promote what you love instead of bashing what you hate.
I think many former eq1 players don't remember how obnoxious chat was in eq in the early years. Everyone wants to make a claim that wow chat invented stupidity, which i disagree with. Vanguard does have its elitists that slam anyone that makes a comment they perceive as negative as well as some of those Chuck Norris joking idiots. There are however others that will answer a noob question or be helpful in general.
As far as grouping it does seem many wait for the mid teens+ to start. As in most these type games its best to find a core group/guild of players and/or friends to stick with most the time.
I am talking with people on AIM right now I have known for years from EQ 1, but when I hear people say that EQ 1 had the "best community" ... I am not sure if they were playing the same EQ 1 I did.
Drama was less than WoW in some respects but worse in the sense of conflicts between guilds for raid content; between groups for group content; and between players for item drops. Conflict was horrible in Everquest 1, and the death of EQ 1's model that generated conflict has been great!
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WoW and fast food = commercial successes.
I neither play WoW nor eat fast food.
The community is made up of elitist fanbois and thats what puts me off these so called mature communities. Alot of the time they insult other games all the time and claim everything sucks but the game they're playing and how perfect the game is when it's clearly not. If you criticize something then it makes you a noob and you should go back to WOW. Also you can never find a group and the only people who are worth playing with only seem to play with their mates in their guilds and not talk to anyone else.
What i loved about the WOW community is they never talked about other mmorpgs or insulted you and called you a noob. Sure their forums are full of people complaining about their class but that's really the only problem that every game with classes has. Also i could always find a group within 20 mins on WOW but in other games it's like good luck with that lol cause i couldn't ever find a group on Vanguard. Everyone tells you how you need to get to a higher level before you can group but tbh i don't want to solo, in WOW i could find a group at level 5 onwards like..........
I dunno alot of these so called mature communities end up ruining what could have been a ok game.
How high and mighty of you to judge an entire community over the actions of the very few asshats (compared to the overall players) who have nothing better to do than act like the idiots that they are. I see tons of people trying to help new players but the difference is, they don't participate in regionsay.
Regionsay in every game is full of these idiots who could better spend their time by playing in traffic. Every game has these morons in them. Please don't judge the entire community because of a vocal minority. If you don't like the game, that's fine. Just stop playing it. Otherwise make liberal use of the /ignore function.
Vanguard from day one has had a problem minority that talked down to anyone who dared to question anything about the game in a critical manner.
I can remember during the pre-release people asking innocent questions like "Levelling seems a bit slow in this game" and tons of replies of "If you dont like it go back to WoW you noob!!"
They told people to go back to Wow and the people listened to them obviously.
How high and mighty of you to judge an entire community over the actions of the very few asshats (compared to the overall players) who have nothing better to do than act like the idiots that they are. I see tons of people trying to help new players but the difference is, they don't participate in regionsay.
Regionsay in every game is full of these idiots who could better spend their time by playing in traffic. Every game has these morons in them. Please don't judge the entire community because of a vocal minority. If you don't like the game, that's fine. Just stop playing it. Otherwise make liberal use of the /ignore function.
The problem is the vocal minority are the only ones talking, the rest don't bother so tbh the rest don't exist.
wow if this is true then almost every other game on the market must be INSANELY BAD. WoW Lotro ton and tons of F2P titles...they all have horrid communitys. just get it through yah...every game on earth has its share of asshats and elitists...its life, just like every game has gold farmers, get used to it. this community from what ive seen has been one of the best next to EQ2(recently quit becuase its not my style) so dont make such incoherent posts becuase you dont like a game u probly only played in beta (when every game has its worst set of ppl...cuase its free to try)
Just thought I would drop a line here in the middle of this argument. I won't hesitate to tell people when I see something wrong, so it is only fair to tell people when I had a above average experience.
Last night, after I logged in I flagged myself LFG and then went to the LFM tab to see if I can put a group together myself. Turns out I was able to add 2 more people to my group as a level 5 right after logging in. Sadly though, one person left the group to craft something for a friend before we even got started. The other person and I duoed literally all night. I think we ended the duo around 12am PST. Ran the duo for several hours. I logged off as a lvl 8 and he a lvl 9. He started as a lvl 6. I ended up adding him to my friends list, since he was a good person and I enjoyed grouping with him.
I guess this goes to show that being proactive "eventually" pays off. I admit I was skeptical about ever being able to find a group, but I am glad I found one. The game is much better when played with others.
You know, the game really isn't that bad when you don't focus on quests. It is a lot better when you group with another person and just explore and find things your level to fight. Doing quests just give you tunnel vision and you forget that there is a world outside of your little questing area.
Just thought I'd mention that.
Thanks
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
This game is definately group-centric at the core. But with recent patches, it has become a little easier to solo, then it intially was.
To the original OP :
Yeah the community in this game is very odd indeed in places. After trying out a super el cheapo copy of VG just to test I experienced bizzaro server chat. I experienced within the first few hours players:
Hating the game and still playing
Bitterness about performance issues / content
Arguing for the 'realistic' graphics / arguing against
Endless discussing about tweaking e.g. forcing AA over large screen resolution
More endless discussions about how VG will be killed off by AOC or (gulp) warhammer
Braggers who post there spec only to fall quiet when asked specific questions about there setup
People who openly declare there elitist and proud...
Wow kiddie speak.. yes.. in VG... oh noes !
And as a disclaimer I'll point out that I don't support or discredit any of the above stuff. It was merely discussed from supporters and discreditors within the first few hours of me playing. Now for the bits you can flame me on...
Really its like these forums and I guess any MMO but there is something in VG community about the bitterness of the games state and polarised opinion. The odd thing is the game is loved by some but in some way pushes them over the edge and you'll see them turn and bash it in frustration and then go on to love it again.
Repeat this a few times and I am sure the whole game is a copy of the classic 1950's experiment by the US military to see the effects of LSD on people. Crazy stuff but the drama in this game isn't going to go away over night. When it does either the servers really will be dead ( which there not) or the game is polished in the way it should have been at release.
The good news for fanbois is that I am enjoying some aspects of the game itself... but more on this in a months time.
I think you have drama in every game.
Except CoD 4 where, if you swear, you get banned. The gameplay is so intense, though, you do not have time to /type in the game.
If you ever played WoW, though, and I am totally serious... it is not bad. It is horrid. I thought EQ 1's community was pretty bad. LotR, when I briefly played, had a lot of drama. Surprise: all the MMORPGs I have played have drama or that stuff going on in chat. (You even see it here, perhaps the OP is an example?)
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WoW and fast food = commercial successes.
I neither play WoW nor eat fast food.