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BBC article states Vanguard a failure.
Xenduli
Member Posts: 654
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7156078.stm
"..Another sign of the growing maturity of online gaming was the notable failure of titles such as Vanguard.
Although released in February it was error prone and has taken months to become reliable enough. "
Are the days of releasing MMOs to be beta-tested by paying customers over?
No annoying animated GIF here!
Comments
They go on about future mmorpgs but no mmorpg released next year will break the 1 million subscriber mark and nothing will ever top WOW until someone releases a mmorpg that has the polish and quality of WOW. Warhammer Online i reckon will be released buggy and be a let down to alot of people and i don't think people wil find the combat as fun as WOW cause it's not as fluid and looks ugly.
Vanguard will never ever be popular now because you only get one chance to make a first impression and 95% of people will never give a game a second look, only really the hardcore mmorpg crowd would.
WoW is not popular for quality, there are 4 reasons behind wow sucess.
1 huge marketing
2 simple
3 run in everyone pc
4 cartoon appeals to comon people, not only fantasy fans
About the future of Vanguard, well, only time will tell...and "hardcore" people and people that wants a deeper pve experience at least have an option now...
And i don't think they release WAR buggy, they are going to launch it 5 months later then they should. I'm not saying that it will be the best game ever, but you can't say that the combat is not fun enough and ugly.
But i agree on your point about Vanguard. They released it unfinished and then you don't have any change to get it to the top.
And i don't think they release WAR buggy, they are going to launch it 5 months later then they should. I'm not saying that it will be the best game ever, but you can't say that the combat is not fun enough and ugly.
But i agree on your point about Vanguard. They released it unfinished and then you don't have any change to get it to the top.
I'm just predicting it' wont be successful like everyone thinks it'll be, maybe in sales it'll do ok cause of the hype but i doubt it'll hold many subscribers.... 300k tops.
WAR already has 500k people playing beta, and several hundred thousand more drooling to get in...
If thats any indication, I dont think that it will be a failure, and it has a very good chance to topple Wow in North America, and maybe eventually worldwide...
And i don't think they release WAR buggy, they are going to launch it 5 months later then they should. I'm not saying that it will be the best game ever, but you can't say that the combat is not fun enough and ugly.
But i agree on your point about Vanguard. They released it unfinished and then you don't have any change to get it to the top.
I'm just predicting it' wont be successful like everyone thinks it'll be, maybe in sales it'll do ok cause of the hype but i doubt it'll hold many subscribers.... 300k tops.
One of the reasons WoW wa cited as successful was it had a large fan base and brand-name recognition....apparently, Warcraft the RTS paved the way for the MMO, it's been said. While lots of other factors did contribute to it's success, I think Warhammer is easily as popular due to its long running miniatures game, and has enough of a fan base (in the US and Europe, no idea about Asia) to grab a million subscribers when it hits.
I guess a reasonable measure of how many subscribers WAR can look forward to might be derived from a measure of how many sales other Warhammer games (all RTSs) have generated. So far it seems like a pretty lucrative franchise. My guess is it will be released ina very polished state, one of the reasons for a lengthy delay, because they are also aiming to emulate Blizzard's model of having a (mostly) intact game at the day of release, with enough coverage to run on a wide variety of systems.
And lastly, the graphics I've seen for WAR look much, much nicer than WoW's painfully simple graphics. I just can't take the WoW cartoon look anymore, I guess....been away too many months now...
Current MMOs: Rift, GW2, Defiance
Blog: http://realmsofchirak.blogspot.com (old school tabletop gaming and more)
Has everyone forgotten how incomplete and buggy wow was when it released? Sheesh!
And i don't think they release WAR buggy, they are going to launch it 5 months later then they should. I'm not saying that it will be the best game ever, but you can't say that the combat is not fun enough and ugly.
But i agree on your point about Vanguard. They released it unfinished and then you don't have any change to get it to the top.
I'm just predicting it' wont be successful like everyone thinks it'll be, maybe in sales it'll do ok cause of the hype but i doubt it'll hold many subscribers.... 300k tops.
One of the reasons WoW wa cited as successful was it had a large fan base and brand-name recognition....apparently, Warcraft the RTS paved the way for the MMO, it's been said. While lots of other factors did contribute to it's success, I think Warhammer is easily as popular due to its long running miniatures game, and has enough of a fan base (in the US and Europe, no idea about Asia) to grab a million subscribers when it hits.
I guess a reasonable measure of how many subscribers WAR can look forward to might be derived from a measure of how many sales other Warhammer games (all RTSs) have generated. So far it seems like a pretty lucrative franchise. My guess is it will be released ina very polished state, one of the reasons for a lengthy delay, because they are also aiming to emulate Blizzard's model of having a (mostly) intact game at the day of release, with enough coverage to run on a wide variety of systems.
And lastly, the graphics I've seen for WAR look much, much nicer than WoW's painfully simple graphics. I just can't take the WoW cartoon look anymore, I guess....been away too many months now...
Notice the "mostly intact" statement. Wow didn't change anything, except the potential for millions of subs. It was pretty much a friggin beta when it released as well.
WoW launched in a very finished state. Yes, there were a few issues with resource nodes, geometry traps, and such. But overall, it was a very high-quality release.
Its biggest problem was the unanticipated number of players arriving in the system. These folks were coming not because of the Warcraft RTS games, they came because of the word-of-mouth reports on the shear awesomeness of the game compared to recent releases such as EQ2 and SoR.
So yeah, you would go into Ironforge and find yourself in the Pit because you lagged out due to the 200 players milling around. And you could get stuck harvesting a broken node. And you might fall through the world in one spot and join the stack of other players that had fallen through. But so what? WoW is so huge that running across one of the rare problem areas was often a reason to gloat. Like finding you could side-step up an unclimable hill to get to a forbidden area.
Sorry, but if you think WoW was a bad launch, you just have not been around MMORPGs very much at launch. Anarchy Online was a bad launch. EQ2 was a bad launch. V:SoH was a bad launch.
WoW was a spectacularly good launch. If it had not been, it would never have made it past the first 1m subscribers.
Short version:
Shallow+Poor Community+Popular ≠ Success
Deep+Fun+Good community > The above.
Lots of subscribers does not a "good" MMO make. WoW got as big as it did due to the previous RTS fanbase, and the simplistic gameplay and ad campaign that raked in tons of newbies to the genre. In addition to the shallow gameplay being offputting, the sudden influx of people essentially flooding the game and the sheer amount of asshattery present within a community that large, made the game as such that I couldn't stand playing it anymore. I originally loved it because I loved the warcraft lore. Once it became popular, things starting running down hill, and the further I got into the game, the more I was searching for more depth.
Warhammer, I'm sure will bring a ton of new ideas and fun to the table. However, I question if the actual depth of the game is going to rise above the "smash this, cheer, smash something else" of WoW, and while I would give it a try regardless as I love the Warhammer universe as well, my appeal for the game died entirely once I saw interest in the WoW community building, and what now is going to be a full scale invasion of WoW players which personally, I believe is going to ruin the game right off the bat.
The success of an MMO personally, has more to do with the community around it, and the amount of depth and fun that can be found within. This does not always translate out to financial success however.
Bans a perma, but so are sigs in necro posts.
EAT ME MMORPG.com!
WoW infact was released buggy, I've been playing it since launch, but they fixed it up really quick. The problem with it, is the fact that they do not update it enough. Content updates (with the exception of the last one) are very limited and go in one direction. WoW is the biggest MMOG to date, yes. But I do not see it remaining so later into 2008. I do not see one specific MMOG having as large a number as WoW has had, but I see it splitting between a bunch of games.
As far as Vanguard is concerned, however....It has a enormous amount of potential. over-all it has been a big let-down but they have profited from it. As long as they continue to optomize it and add the content it's missing in a timely manner, and then do go through with the re-release, with alot of promotion I can see it doing very well. But it will be unlikely that it makes it to the top.
I liked WoW and I am currently playing Vanguard. There's no comparison in bugginess between the two. VG wasn't released buggy...it was released unfinished. Big difference. It's nearly a year since release, and the game is still being completed (helmets anyone? Flying mounts? etc., etc.). BUT, the game is a lot of fun today. There's tons of stuff to do, and SOE is kicking butt.
So there was a day when people payed to beta test MMO's. When was that?
I don't think Vanguard would have been that hit even if it was released before WoW. Nor do I think any other game released in the state, presumably, that Vanguard was in. Have any game been accepted and played by many, if the game was release in a bad state. At least not until it was 'fixed'
I'm just curius on the article as they state that in it. Alot of the things in it makes me go, hmm... But atleast they did not use the phrase WoW-killer.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
Star wars,LotR,Star trek and other games have similar recognition but cant come close to wow numbers because the games dont retain the players.
"I originally loved it because I loved the warcraft lore. Once it became popular, things starting running down hill,"
Did you stop going to Starbucks as well? No longer shop at the Hot Topic?
Just curious...
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
Sorry but the whole wow is popular because of x,y,or z argument is bs. Wow is popular because millions of those that tried it actually liked it, period. Marketing and name recognition may get you in the door but if it doesnt appeal to those that enter, you wont keep them.Star wars,LotR,Star trek and other games have similar recognition but cant come close to wow numbers because the games dont retain the players.
Lol, always get a good laugh, when a WOWboi says it's success isn't about marketing and name recognition. So basically, your theory is saying all other mmos are crap and can't hold subscribers like WOW can, simply because wow is a superior game. You can design the greatest game in the world, but if you don't have multi-million dollar advertising money (*cough* Vivendi), not many people will know or care. The reason why so many people play IS because of advertising and the fact that "My friends play it". The majority of society is filled with followers, and these people will do whatever it is the masses deem "cool" or "popular". I don't know how many countless times i have asked people who play WOW, why they play, and everyone answering to the effect of: "Well because all my friends play", or "Because I saw it on tv etc."
Now before you go slingin accusations, I am an ex-wow player (look at my x-fire). I left because the game became boring, and I had realised at that point, that the game was too simplistic, and easy, and that it had been created for the average-Joe, not a hardcore gamer like me. Those who play it, kudos to you, I hope you enjoy it, no hate here buddy. But please, please those who do, and enjoy lording this game over others, just cut it out. You know better, and should have more intelligence than to assume that just cause more people play it, it is a superior product. If more people smoked crack, would that make it right, cool, or "Better" than say caffeine, alchohol, or even marijauna? LOL, The crackheads would probably answer yes.
Star wars,LotR,Star trek and other games have similar recognition but cant come close to wow numbers because the games dont retain the players.
Lol, always get a good laugh, when a WOWboi says it's success isn't about marketing and name recognition. So basically, your theory is saying all other mmos are crap and can't hold subscribers like WOW can, simply because wow is a superior game. You can design the greatest game in the world, but if you don't have multi-million dollar advertising money (*cough* Vivendi), not many people will know or care. The reason why so many people play IS because of advertising and the fact that "My friends play it". The majority of society is filled with followers, and these people will do whatever it is the masses deem "cool" or "popular". I don't know how many countless times i have asked people who play WOW, why they play, and everyone answering to the effect of: "Well because all my friends play", or "Because I saw it on tv etc."
Now before you go slingin accusations, I am an ex-wow player (look at my x-fire). I left because the game became boring, and I had realised at that point, that the game was too simplistic, and easy, and that it had been created for the average-Joe, not a hardcore gamer like me. Those who play it, kudos to you, I hope you enjoy it, no hate here buddy. But please, please those who do, and enjoy lording this game over others, just cut it out. You know better, and should have more intelligence than to assume that just cause more people play it, it is a superior product. If more people smoked crack, would that make it right, cool, or "Better" than say caffeine, alchohol, or even marijauna? LOL, The crackheads would probably answer yes.
1. Not a wowboi.
2. Nice try at putting words in my mouth. I never said all games are crap compared to wow because they dont have millions of subs. If wow at release was as bad as vanguard at release it would not have 9million+ subs. All the marketing and name recogition in the world will not get people to pay a subscription to a horrible game. That isnt to say that a game without the marketing or recognotion cant be great or a game cant be great if it doesnt have millions of subs.
3. People playing a game mainly because friends do can be said for most games, not exclusive to wow.
4. Your the one slinging accusations,not me.
5. I dont play wow anymore nor have i "lorded" it over other games. I played it,enjoyed it,and left it because after the leveling up it became boring and a grind. My original response was to those who try to say wow is popular just because name recognition,marketing,etc. Its popular because its a good game that many people find enjoyable.
And i don't think they release WAR buggy, they are going to launch it 5 months later then they should. I'm not saying that it will be the best game ever, but you can't say that the combat is not fun enough and ugly.
But i agree on your point about Vanguard. They released it unfinished and then you don't have any change to get it to the top.
I'm just predicting it' wont be successful like everyone thinks it'll be, maybe in sales it'll do ok cause of the hype but i doubt it'll hold many subscribers.... 300k tops.
One of the reasons WoW wa cited as successful was it had a large fan base and brand-name recognition....apparently, Warcraft the RTS paved the way for the MMO, it's been said. While lots of other factors did contribute to it's success, I think Warhammer is easily as popular due to its long running miniatures game, and has enough of a fan base (in the US and Europe, no idea about Asia) to grab a million subscribers when it hits.
I guess a reasonable measure of how many subscribers WAR can look forward to might be derived from a measure of how many sales other Warhammer games (all RTSs) have generated. So far it seems like a pretty lucrative franchise. My guess is it will be released ina very polished state, one of the reasons for a lengthy delay, because they are also aiming to emulate Blizzard's model of having a (mostly) intact game at the day of release, with enough coverage to run on a wide variety of systems.
And lastly, the graphics I've seen for WAR look much, much nicer than WoW's painfully simple graphics. I just can't take the WoW cartoon look anymore, I guess....been away too many months now...
I think the people who like the tabletop game will just stick to that because it's what they like. I think really WAR is just going to attract fans of DAOC and people who are looking for something new to try out. We all know just because it's based on a major IP it wont always do well.... SWG and LOTRO both shoulda attracted more than WOW because of how popular them franchises are and they're much bigger than Warhammer. However they didn't and i'm just predicting that Warhammer Online will be in the same boat as them, while probably not as bad as them, it still wont pass a million.
you know what i see in every blizzard product i buy? a free 2 week trial for wow, now if this happens with the newer games marketing wise they might get somewhere like blizzard, everyone in my family got a diablo game for a stocking stuffer at my mother inlaws, every one of them had a 2 week wow trial in it , .
playing eq2 and two worlds
What can I say, really?
Am I holding my breath? Nope.
*A real estate development company I am a corporate officer of was recently dissolved. Real estate is a bad market in terms of development right now, but companies do go under. I started my first company when I was a sophmore in college. I have had great success and setbacks and failures. It is not a big deal, per se. You learn and move on.
-----
WoW and fast food = commercial successes.
I neither play WoW nor eat fast food.
No, but clearly its because I didn't want to play it because it was "popular". It had nothing to do with the game going from the depth of a kiddy pool to a puddle and having the shout channels routinely contain spam of "PENISPENISPENIS". Yup, clearly its the popularity putting me off such a quality gaming environment.
Bans a perma, but so are sigs in necro posts.
EAT ME MMORPG.com!
And while I absolutely love Warhammer online, I don't think a lot of people from WOW will be leaving in order to play something that may very well mimic DAoC in player design. I can tell you this the raid crowd and the casual probably won't push into the hype of this game "I am gonna play it due to my War table top roots, only reason".
As far as Vanguard goes, if Warhammer, Age of Conan or WOW fumbles the ball next year "which they won't" .You can bet your bottom dollar ,after new content,coding issues/quest updates and raid content is in, a lot of people will be coming to Vanguard after the old hats hang it up.
Mark my words, hell I would come back to the game if they put in helmets sitting animations other than EQ2 and the Wyrm mount quests.
yada yada yada.. yeah we know.. vanguard "sux", WoW is "king", we all "sux" for playing Vanguard yada.. bleh blah, game is boring.. blah.. WoW is better.. yada yada.. One more topic that states what we (players) have been told for almost a full year now.. We get it, and understand it.. We are black sheep.. yada...
Have I made any e-peens grow larger by preten..err.. confessing the truth to the world?
Hopefully I did.. I would go on, but I must return to Telon.. My fellow losers need me.. :-)
And while I absolutely love Warhammer online, I don't think a lot of people from WOW will be leaving in order to play something that may very well mimic DAoC in player design. I can tell you this the raid crowd and the casual probably won't push into the hype of this game "I am gonna play it due to my War table top roots, only reason".
As far as Vanguard goes, if Warhammer, Age of Conan or WOW fumbles the ball next year "which they won't" .You can bet your bottom dollar ,after new content,coding issues/quest updates and raid content is in, a lot of people will be coming to Vanguard after the old hats hang it up.
Mark my words, hell I would come back to the game if they put in helmets sitting animations other than EQ2 and the Wyrm mount quests.
Yeah also i bet thats like 100k and everyones signed up multiple times and you gotta think how many people are actually going to like it cause 3 of my mates were in beta and they played once and said it sucked cause it was too much like WOW and they were my friends from the old days in SWG.
Facts:
Vanguard = 50.000? subscribers
WoW = 9 million subscribers
See the difference?
Vanguard = Failure!
WoW = Success!
It doesen't matter what game is best. If I was a company I would love to have been creating WoW, not Vanguard.
Let me ask you this: