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what if a game had...
paulscott
Member Posts: 5,613
the number one complaint in starting a new character, or going through the same raid for months on end is that it's always the same. MOBs behave the same way do the same stuff and are just the same.
What if the game could keep the world and enemies changing. some day the AI might decide to go after a healer instead of the normal tank, players eventually adapt to turn the healer into the new tank for that creature(The AI could adapt the next day or the next month). some Ranged mobs might one day shift more towards longer range moves instead of shorter, then a week later have their spawn moved to the top of ledge.
how would your reactions be to a system that slowly changes over the course of a few weeks or month or two be? even going so far as to have different servers have very different setups since they each found different soloutions to the problem that the player poses to their MOBs life expanctancy? And what if the MOBs kept adapting to how the players play the game on that server? would you like this game yey or nay?
____________boring less discussional stuff below______________
What if there was a form of AI that is extremely efficent at figuring out these solutions, without adding an extreme amount of overhead to the system.
that form of 'intelligence' is what's refered to genetic AI. In it's base form it does two/three things launches a bunch of possible solutions at a problem, then takes the most sucessful forms of the solutions slightly modifies them, and launches the possible solutions at the problem again.
in an MMO this is something that suits it perfectly since you're running a persistent world(even if it's GW type persistence) that will encounter a problem over and over, that being the players trying to kill the AI.
you have a few dozen things you can alter: Stats Enemy uses, Moves Enemy uses, spawn areas and special things like threat logic or retreat logic.
you also have a few things that the AI could consider winning: doing the most damage, surviving the longest, tanking the most real damage, and just about anything you could think of.
at the end of the day/X enemies kill/raid cleared/whatever you take the 5 most sucessful builds that the enemy type used(and a few completely random ones made up), then slightly modify those into something like 20 or 30 builds which will be used the next day.
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
Comments
Putting in an adaptive AI (aka learning AI) in an mmo maybe interesting but the developers have to consider that not ALL players play at the same skill level and an adaptive AI will eventually learn enough tactics and strategy to eventually overcome even the most skilled of players and people would start complaining that the game has become too hard for them. Developers then would have to step in and put some kind of limit to make the game challenging and yet possible to beat.
No one wants to play against SKYNET.
It wouldn't be infinate advancement like: ooo I think I'll take +1 to everthing then the next generation I'll take another +1 to everything. it'll be more like take a point from here add one there. I'll take these 5 moves with me(out of the 10 that I can choose from).
in theory the MOBs aren't becoming more powerful, they're just becoming slightly different.
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
Speak for yourself, I for one would love to see some truely challenging AI's come out. Something that just isn;t easily exploitable.
Speak for yourself, I for one would love to see some truely challenging AI's come out. Something that just isn;t easily exploitable.
I would like to see ANY AI in a MMO, because so far its absolutely lacking. Mobs behaving due to some exact linear formulas of who does what amount of threat, boooring. Give us AI on a global scale arranging matters in world and aslo AI on individual scale for each mob.
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Due to the recent economic crisis and spending cuts the light at the end of the tunnel was turned off. Sincerely, God.
the AI to the extent could end up being just as exploitable. we won't see advanced human like behavior that you'd get in some of the more advanced PvP games(I'm talking guilds in shooters type advanced).
but it won't be exploitable in the fact that you know everything that is going to happen before it does. one week you could go through as a channeling type wizard then the next you try to use the build but have some extra difficulty since they have an ability that interupts you, two weeks later it's impossible to go through with that same farming build you did last week(along with a few hundred others) since all mobs of that type in that reigion are now packing one or two intreruping abilites. however say you're slightly creative you would realize that since the mobs are packing so many interupting abilies in this area that if you bring stuff that casts nearly instantly the AI is left with half as many options as before making it relativly weak to your new build.
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
I'm attempting to make adaptive AI in my MMO. As it's a tactical shooter clever design fps (turn based, but plays like FPS). The AI will hide behind objects using cover, etc. There is no such thing as hate or tanks or healers. You can be anything (yes it is in fact skill based). AI Terrorist teams will strike random targets, etc. (The game is being designed as a modern day tactical shooter. Sorry. No zombies and flying monkeys with duck faces or some other odd like creature)
Development is still underway and expected closed beta is, eh. 2-3 years? I'm designing for future tech so "hopefully" when I release it won't be outdated LOL.
[ Played ] 2Moons, Anarchy Online, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Dark Age of Camelot, Everquest, Everquest II, Guild Wars, HellGate: London, Lord of the Rings Online, Rappelz, RF Online, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Sword of the New World, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, World of Warcraft, Last Chaos
[ Playing ] Everquest II
[ Waiting ] Aion, Age of Conan
The OP is after the same thing as i am.To me the battle system is the most important thing in the game.I'm not there for the purpose of gaining friends nor does guilding even intrigue me.I also don't care much for storylines as i don't even like to read books in RL.
The battle system and mob AI is it for me.This is why to this date i am very dissapointed in that ONLY FFXI has made an intuitive battle system with no other game coming even close.FFXI is a slower paced battle scenario where players are acting and reacting,watching there health/mana for optimal use.The mobs do not always react the same way,there is even a select few that do transform and take on different roles.
You also need to remember that ,in keeping a game realistic to some point,they need to keep the mobs playing there roles.By this i mean a healer type goblin is just that ,a healer.It's like rpg in RL ,if your an athlete your an athlete,someone else is a scholar,another may be a mechanic,everyone is best at doing something.So it doesn't bother me that mobs play there roles it actually adds to the stratedgy when fighting.If you are say fighting a trio of mobs it would be smartest to maybe kill the healer mob first but at the same time maybe the nuker mob can wipe your whole party if he is left to nuke away.A battle system with stratedgy is what makes it great,not endless heal pots and mobs that die in 3 lightning fast swings like korean grindfests.
There is also one other factor.How could a mob AI react to party play?i mean each party member would/could be doing something different,so really there would never be a perfect reacting AI,well unless he could do 6 things at once to react to all 6 members of a party.You really could only create a NEAR perfect AI when playing solo,but then again AI is set formulaes commands,there is no such thing as a thinking mob.That my friend is called the CHAOS theory lol,won't be figured out in my lifetime.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
lol
lol
Finally... someone got that it was a joke!
Actually, the best solution to that is to make it a generation advancement with the addition of PRNG to keep it from overspawning decent AIs.
-- Brede
Good luck. I hope you're looking at cellular automation to manage the overall behavior of your AIs (using them in an iterative cycle versus player interaction will allow for 'molding' of AI behavior).