I'm sorry I know most people think they want a sandbox. but when it comes down to it they really just want a good game, something that's easier to do in something that's semi-linear.
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
I don't want it to be 100% sandbox because it can be hard to make a living storyline that you follow then, but neither do I want it to be 100% linear because that's too "forced". I would prefer a combination of both, however mainly sandbox and lesser part linear.
I picked linear because it has given me the best experience for games till now.
The problem with very 'free' games, where the player supposed to make their story and create a world is it seems to fail most of the time. Perfect example is Vanguard, noone creates a community there, it's very short on social places and people are doing whatever a bit and there doesn't seem to be a common goal or anything to drive them to do things.
Asian games are often linear but they also include huge sieges and battle's often that are awesome fun. A group of players doesn't usually create a siege or something to do unless there's game incentive to do it.
I think a hybrid game could be done, there are already a few games that are close or trying to go that way.
You could segregate sandbox and linear content, perhaps with an RvR-style pvp area that incorporates some scripted objectives that can be accomplished in a freeform manner as a buffer in the middle, and outside of this a large area that's completely sandboxed. Sorta like WAR meets EvE.
I think a hybrid game would really only *need* two key design elements to succeed. First being skill-based instead of class-based, as classes and levels segregate your playerbase which is usually really bad for sandbox type games.
The second being that the devs have ot understand the griefer mentality. Every good sandbox game that's come out has also been a griefer haven, which really contributes to their relative unpopularity. Any mechanic that can be abused will be. Any place where people can grief other people they will. So you have to carefully create mechanics when designing the game that will discourage griefing by making it an activity that can not be sustained for long periods of time, by making it waste all your money, making the entire gameworld hostile to you, or something else, it doesn't really matter.
I'm sorry I know most people think they want a sandbox. but when it comes down to it they really just want a good game, something that's easier to do in something that's semi-linear.
I think so.
The major things that I miss is sandbox games are a goal and community.
In a full sandbox game, where there is no common goal, where stories and goals are supposed to be created by the players, that community and goal often either doesn't exist, or noone cares to make a big goal. And the only goal they create is one for themselves. Most people will also solo in sandbox games I think.
I think sandbox games get pretty boring fast. I want to be told a story. I play the games to be entertained, not to entertain myself.
Explain your Hybrid Sandbox. I just don't see how you could mix the two entirely different types to make a good game. If someone good do it , and do it extremely well, it would be the most succesful game out there, appealing to both types of gamers in a certain way. If it could make the Sandbox people think of it as a sandbox game and the linear people think of it as a linear game at the same time. That game is one in a million, i swear.
I think I'll chime in here.
I would also want some sort of "hybrid" sandbox. A game where there are rails and only rails to follow is a bit constrictive to me. However, those "complete sandbox" games where players just stand around and socialize, make campfires in the wilderness, dance in the streets, role play, etc, would not do it for me either.
My main game is Lineage 2. What many people don't realize is that it is a sandbox game. But it is a pvp sandbox game where the action and game play is generated through player interaction. It is all about politics, controlling castles, fortresses, etc.
Their are raid bosses (which can also be fought over) and quests but the quests are utilitarian at best an mostly never fun.
You also have things like fishing, crafting.
But sometimes I would love to just log in and do quests that are fun an exciting and have some sort of problem solving (even if simple) which of course, L2 quests are not. (boring quests, really).
I did try WoW and what I found was that I actually had fun doing some of their quests. I actually found myself taking any quest I could (as opposed to L2 quests which I never do unless I have to).
It was nice to just log in and be part of the amusement park.
So a hybrid would be nice. Something that allowed for a dynamic world but that there were elements to that world that one could take part in that allowed freedom. Sort of like Morrowind or as someone else said, Oblivion. There is a main quest which is "on rails" but you could do any number of things that weren't related to the main quests. Heck, my roommate played Oblivion quite a bit but never ever touched the main quest. Yet i did both.
That would be a game of interest to me.
This is why I like Darkfall. Its a complete sandbox, but it's more than just dancing in the streets and socializing as you said. In Darkfall its total PvP and politics. Building up cities, and fighting wars, things like that.
------------------------------ atsdf.com Among The Shadows Darkfall Clan
I'm sorry I know most people think they want a sandbox. but when it comes down to it they really just want a good game, something that's easier to do in something that's semi-linear.
I think so.
The major things that I miss is sandbox games are a goal and community.
In a full sandbox game, where there is no common goal, where stories and goals are supposed to be created by the players, that community and goal often either doesn't exist, or noone cares to make a big goal. And the only goal they create is one for themselves. Most people will also solo in sandbox games I think.
I think sandbox games get pretty boring fast. I want to be told a story. I play the games to be entertained, not to entertain myself.
In some games, Darkfall for example its PvP based, which takes the boring part of it away. In this game it would be very hard to solo also. To me, its boring doing Quest after Quest after Quest.
------------------------------ atsdf.com Among The Shadows Darkfall Clan
I think most people here can pretty much see which style of gamer I am. I like games in the MMO genre like WWII Online, RuneScape (the old RuneScape), and two games yet to be released Darkfall and Renaissance. I am the same way with console games. The games I hate the most are ones where you go through the story and press the buttons for combos and fight and stuff. The games I like are games like guitar hero, call of duty 4 (multiplayer), halo 3 (multiplayer). Games that take skill, and games where there isn't a set story where you have to follow and you do nothing else. Halo and CoD4 are like that but I just play multiplayer after I beat campaign. Back to the point, I guess a 100% complete sandbox would get boring. I guess what needs to be changed to give games more freedom is: no Classes and professions, no restrictions on what you want to be,skill based, no levels, importance of quests brought down, craft anything, and FPS style combat. you may think that has nothing to do with freedom but it does, freedom of combat and control of combat. It takes skill and you hit wherever you want. So technically you could call it freedom of combat.
------------------------------ atsdf.com Among The Shadows Darkfall Clan
[x] Both or [x] Bored with this endless X vs Y nonsense
I agree. Perhaps being focused on one vs another is just too inflexible a position to take for what mmorpg.com members. As someone else stated, why not a bit of both?
Comments
I'm sorry I know most people think they want a sandbox. but when it comes down to it they really just want a good game, something that's easier to do in something that's semi-linear.
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
Sandbox. I would never touch a linear MMO.
And why flame the OP, we all KNOW the difference.
I don't want it to be 100% sandbox because it can be hard to make a living storyline that you follow then, but neither do I want it to be 100% linear because that's too "forced". I would prefer a combination of both, however mainly sandbox and lesser part linear.
I picked linear because it has given me the best experience for games till now.
The problem with very 'free' games, where the player supposed to make their story and create a world is it seems to fail most of the time. Perfect example is Vanguard, noone creates a community there, it's very short on social places and people are doing whatever a bit and there doesn't seem to be a common goal or anything to drive them to do things.
Asian games are often linear but they also include huge sieges and battle's often that are awesome fun. A group of players doesn't usually create a siege or something to do unless there's game incentive to do it.
I think a hybrid game could be done, there are already a few games that are close or trying to go that way.
You could segregate sandbox and linear content, perhaps with an RvR-style pvp area that incorporates some scripted objectives that can be accomplished in a freeform manner as a buffer in the middle, and outside of this a large area that's completely sandboxed. Sorta like WAR meets EvE.
I think a hybrid game would really only *need* two key design elements to succeed. First being skill-based instead of class-based, as classes and levels segregate your playerbase which is usually really bad for sandbox type games.
The second being that the devs have ot understand the griefer mentality. Every good sandbox game that's come out has also been a griefer haven, which really contributes to their relative unpopularity. Any mechanic that can be abused will be. Any place where people can grief other people they will. So you have to carefully create mechanics when designing the game that will discourage griefing by making it an activity that can not be sustained for long periods of time, by making it waste all your money, making the entire gameworld hostile to you, or something else, it doesn't really matter.
I think so.
The major things that I miss is sandbox games are a goal and community.
In a full sandbox game, where there is no common goal, where stories and goals are supposed to be created by the players, that community and goal often either doesn't exist, or noone cares to make a big goal. And the only goal they create is one for themselves. Most people will also solo in sandbox games I think.
I think sandbox games get pretty boring fast. I want to be told a story. I play the games to be entertained, not to entertain myself.
i don't like the word "Linear" it dosn't fit into any of the MMORPGS out there. When i hear this word i always think about FPS games ...
I think I'll chime in here.
I would also want some sort of "hybrid" sandbox. A game where there are rails and only rails to follow is a bit constrictive to me. However, those "complete sandbox" games where players just stand around and socialize, make campfires in the wilderness, dance in the streets, role play, etc, would not do it for me either.
My main game is Lineage 2. What many people don't realize is that it is a sandbox game. But it is a pvp sandbox game where the action and game play is generated through player interaction. It is all about politics, controlling castles, fortresses, etc.
Their are raid bosses (which can also be fought over) and quests but the quests are utilitarian at best an mostly never fun.
You also have things like fishing, crafting.
But sometimes I would love to just log in and do quests that are fun an exciting and have some sort of problem solving (even if simple) which of course, L2 quests are not. (boring quests, really).
I did try WoW and what I found was that I actually had fun doing some of their quests. I actually found myself taking any quest I could (as opposed to L2 quests which I never do unless I have to).
It was nice to just log in and be part of the amusement park.
So a hybrid would be nice. Something that allowed for a dynamic world but that there were elements to that world that one could take part in that allowed freedom. Sort of like Morrowind or as someone else said, Oblivion. There is a main quest which is "on rails" but you could do any number of things that weren't related to the main quests. Heck, my roommate played Oblivion quite a bit but never ever touched the main quest. Yet i did both.
That would be a game of interest to me.
This is why I like Darkfall. Its a complete sandbox, but it's more than just dancing in the streets and socializing as you said. In Darkfall its total PvP and politics. Building up cities, and fighting wars, things like that.
------------------------------
atsdf.com
Among The Shadows
Darkfall Clan
I think so.
The major things that I miss is sandbox games are a goal and community.
In a full sandbox game, where there is no common goal, where stories and goals are supposed to be created by the players, that community and goal often either doesn't exist, or noone cares to make a big goal. And the only goal they create is one for themselves. Most people will also solo in sandbox games I think.
I think sandbox games get pretty boring fast. I want to be told a story. I play the games to be entertained, not to entertain myself.
In some games, Darkfall for example its PvP based, which takes the boring part of it away. In this game it would be very hard to solo also. To me, its boring doing Quest after Quest after Quest.
------------------------------
atsdf.com
Among The Shadows
Darkfall Clan
Give me something along the lines of pre NGE SWG
I think most people here can pretty much see which style of gamer I am. I like games in the MMO genre like WWII Online, RuneScape (the old RuneScape), and two games yet to be released Darkfall and Renaissance. I am the same way with console games. The games I hate the most are ones where you go through the story and press the buttons for combos and fight and stuff. The games I like are games like guitar hero, call of duty 4 (multiplayer), halo 3 (multiplayer). Games that take skill, and games where there isn't a set story where you have to follow and you do nothing else. Halo and CoD4 are like that but I just play multiplayer after I beat campaign. Back to the point, I guess a 100% complete sandbox would get boring. I guess what needs to be changed to give games more freedom is: no Classes and professions, no restrictions on what you want to be,skill based, no levels, importance of quests brought down, craft anything, and FPS style combat. you may think that has nothing to do with freedom but it does, freedom of combat and control of combat. It takes skill and you hit wherever you want. So technically you could call it freedom of combat.
------------------------------
atsdf.com
Among The Shadows
Darkfall Clan
I agree. Perhaps being focused on one vs another is just too inflexible a position to take for what mmorpg.com members. As someone else stated, why not a bit of both?