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I went back...and I am sorry I did
covas12d
Member Posts: 5
It's over people, truely only the last remanants remain. I wanted soo badly not to listen to the post on these forums. I wanted to beleive....if I truely wanted it to be good it would be. Sadly I was mistaken.
I knew what to expect...low populations, no active Cities, mission based run/kill/run back leveling. I expereinced all of this and more.
There are more dead cities than people logged in at any given time. Only a handful of servers have a population large enough to register on the capacity meters. If you are not on one of these servers you can move, cost you though. $30 bucks and you keep experience basically, $50 bucks to move your inventory..no datapad, bank or structures transfers.
Characters moving WITH items will NOT be allowed to take their factory crates, resources, items in datapad (vehicles, mounts, pets/droids, factory schematics and packed up houses), bank contents and structures. The override function will allow the move to proceed even if those items exist on the character.
You would think that in the current state the game is in SOE would merge some of the lower populated servers, not going to happen because that takes $$$ out of their pockets.
The existing bugs list is too long to list, some are the same bugs I experienced back in 2004. If you are considering trying SWG again, no wait, dont call it that. If you are considering playing this "Star Wars" themed game I say go for it, it truely is something you need to experience yourself and then you will understand.
Comments
Low server populations would make me transfer but really there should be a 3 to 1 server merge.
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I dunno what your talking about I am very new to SWG and I am really enjoying it, don't seem to be any different problems to the multitude of MMORPG's I have played
I think your crying for the sake of it, not defending the game but there have been far worse scenarios in the world of gaming, anyone remember DAIKATANA
Just get over the fact a game you loved, was changed and you don't like what it changed to, and move on. Stop coming back attempting to rekindle what you will never retrieve, then throwing your rattle out of the pram on the forums.
People complained when battlegrounds were introduced to WoW and everyone lost the fun PvP in southshore.
Everyone went mental in DAoC when they brought out Trials of Atlantis and no one wanted the grind
Everyone went mental when UO brought in Trammel etc
Wish these SWG whiners would stop acting like they were the first group of MMORPG gamers hard done by, its been done, its old hat, get over it and move over to another MMORPG instead of dragging down the existing/new players to NGE SWG.
Its not your game, it never belonged to you, it was up to the developers to shift the game how they pleased, they made a mistake stop persecuting them for it, and let them attempt to salvage what they can, instead of vindicatively sabotaging what they produced. Its not a BAD game its just not the game you enjoyed
Exactly, you do not know what they are talking about. You said it in the first sentence you are very new to SWG. If you had been there and built this amazing world and devoted 2+ years of your life to the game and have it all ripped away in a 24 hour period you would get it. Glad you are having fun but all SWG vets who loved and were devoted to this game indeed have a lot of reasons to complain. You know no other mmorpg has ever screwed it's loyal players the way SOE did with SWG. The first day I logged in the NGE my two years of developing my Master creature handler, master Bio-engineer and master Jedi (one full year of work to achieve) were simply removed and in the case of my jedi made useless. What UO, Doac, and any other game that have made changes did, are no where near what happened to the players in SWG. You simply have been fed crap and only crap so you really do not know any better. Believe me the vets have all the reasons and rights to complain about the current state of SWG and what happened to them. I have gone back 3 times since NGE with as much of an open mind as possible and you know what? It is a steaming pile!
Exactly, you do not know what they are talking about. You said it in the first sentence you are very new to SWG. If you had been there and built this amazing world and devoted 2+ years of your life to the game and have it all ripped away in a 24 hour period you would get it. Glad you are having fun but all SWG vets who loved and were devoted to this game indeed have a lot of reasons to complain. You know no other mmorpg has ever screwed it's loyal players the way SOE did with SWG. The first day I logged in the NGE my two years of developing my Master creature handler, master Bio-engineer and master Jedi (one full year of work to achieve) were simply removed and in the case of my jedi made useless. What UO, Doac, and any other game that have made changes did, are no where near what happened to the players in SWG. You simply have been fed crap and only crap so you really do not know any better. Believe me the vets have all the reasons and rights to complain about the current state of SWG and what happened to them. I have gone back 3 times since NGE with as much of an open mind as possible and you know what? It is a steaming pile!
I have been playing since Launch and I have to agree with Lonewolf.
Exactly, you do not know what they are talking about. You said it in the first sentence you are very new to SWG. If you had been there and built this amazing world and devoted 2+ years of your life to the game and have it all ripped away in a 24 hour period you would get it. Glad you are having fun but all SWG vets who loved and were devoted to this game indeed have a lot of reasons to complain. You know no other mmorpg has ever screwed it's loyal players the way SOE did with SWG. The first day I logged in the NGE my two years of developing my Master creature handler, master Bio-engineer and master Jedi (one full year of work to achieve) were simply removed and in the case of my jedi made useless. What UO, Doac, and any other game that have made changes did, are no where near what happened to the players in SWG. You simply have been fed crap and only crap so you really do not know any better. Believe me the vets have all the reasons and rights to complain about the current state of SWG and what happened to them. I have gone back 3 times since NGE with as much of an open mind as possible and you know what? It is a steaming pile!
I have been playing since Launch and I have to agree with Lonewolf.
That is fine you agree. You simply rolled over and took it in the ,,,, However over 100,000+ players did not and spoke with their subscription cancellations. SWG was once the greatest mmorpg sandbox experiences available. It is now another linear WoW style game.
I understand what Lonewolf is saying but there are other issues that changing a game so drastically while people are paying for it and that is the morality of it.
Sure SOE has the right to change their game, but should they? Where is the loyalty from a corporation to it's consumers, when loyalty from the consumer to the corporation is encouraged (i.e. veteran rewards)? Veterans placed their trust in SOE to give them what was expected but instead SOE brought in focus groups to redesign the game. The reason I find that so insulting is that by bringing in focus groups SOE had been intentionally controlling the audience they wanted to attract rather then remaining loyal to the subscribers they had.
This proves to me that it was a deliberate attempt to alter the player base without any regard to people already paying them to deliver a product they bought. This is unacceptable with virtually every product we buy, so why should it be different for MMO's?
I can understand that people who enjoy the NGE are defending it, but looking at the larger picture are there not some currently playing people that understand this dilema?
Perfectly acceptable to make changes to a product you created and own the property rights too, as it is perfectly acceptable for you to disagree with those changes and stop paying.
Its no different than your electricity provider increasing the cost of your electricity, they are allowed to do it, and you might hate them for it, but there is nothing stopping you changing providers
You voted how you felt with the cancellation of your subscription, anymore than that just sounds like whining.
And my GOD do we have enough whining in MMORPG's
Arguably in defense of PRE-CU people I cannot begin to FATHOM why SOE do not just introduce a PRE-CU server and dedicate a small team to that server for development etc, gauge the amount of people wishing to pay and play on that server, increase the amount of servers and the development team if it becomes popular.
It may be a business model nightmare but at least you would be racking in even more cash.
That I have to say is the only part of this entire debacle I cannot understand
Try playing on Lowca and let us know how it was, ok?
You wont find anyone to party with, and wont be abble to buy anything. There are few crafters and prices go sky high. Then come and explain the logic of still having this dead servers, no free transfers, and how great it is for the new players (it's about all it has, less then 100 on that server though, I recon).
Then why don't you just quit? Why are you playing something you are clearly not enjoying? The logic of playing something you hate, and PAYING for it, is beyond me
Wait ...
The OP would have me believe that a game that came out in 2002 (beta) is not still an innovative powerhouse fueled by fun and high populations? I'm scandalized. Someone call SOE a bunch of bastards for me, I'm too in shock to muster a response myself.
What's next? Super Mario Bros gonna get panned for still using the same old "run from left to right" mission system?
FFS: MOVE ON AND STOP COMPLAINING THAT OLD GAMES ARE OLD.
Lonewolf,
When you pay for electricity you may have the rate changed on you but the product they supply is still the same.
If SOE said they had to increase the sub fee for SWG then that would be a much different story. SOE changed the product, and not just a little bit. They changed it drastically, and that I believe is detrimental to us as consumers as we have no protection against that.
Interestingly enough I was watching a program the other day about condo developers and how consumers were being cheated out of things they were under the impression was in their contract (i.e. dimensions of their unit). It was a disturbing practice, which now that it's been exposed I think people will begin to demand change.
As consumers should we be susceptable to dramatic changes that affect the very basic gameplay features? Do you think we should at least have more protection from this practice? Try to leave SWG out of the equation when answering this and you may surprise yourself.
Unfortunately there is nothing that can compare to a MMORPG product.
In that the majority of things you purchase or subscribe to in this world never really change, this is potentially due to the entertainment value being removed from the said product.
The MMORPG product is a unique one.
Here is a retort to your said problem, who decides what is a legitimate change and isn't? The majority? The people who pay more? The people who have more accounts? The developers who created the game? The Marketing gurus who know how to sell the game to the greatest number of people? Who knows
However, this is where you can run into problems, what happens if the majority do dictate the direction of the game, do the developers then just become puppets of the majority rule of players. Does the game then become ruled by the majority? How do you funnel this rule into a coherent game design structure?
You can't compare the disappointment in changing of a game to any other product in our Western Capitalist world because there are hardly any product models that can compare to its organic, shifting change over time. For example you don't buy a double bed and it changes into a single bed and then you complain about it, most products do what they say on the tin and rarely change. MMORPG's HAVE TO CHANGE as it is an inherent part of their business model which makes it VERY difficult to actually compare to any other problem in our world
Hope that makes some sense
However back to your point of protection, unfortunately you have to stop looking at a game as your property and as your right to play a certain way, you are paying to LEASE time to PLAY the game, your not actually paying for something that is your property, ergo you are not entitled to JACK when it comes to gameplay changes etc. Unless there is some kind of change in the business dynamic of how a MMORPG works, which is unlikely due to the legalities of such a change, you have no right to anything in an MMORPG as it is not your property.
I could liken it to paying for access to a funfair to ride the MADFUN ride, except they have now changed it into the BORINGCRAP ride, you don't have a right to go complain because it is their funfair, you are only paying to come in and try the rides, your not paying to own the right to dictate what they do with their funfair
You can instigate change by lobbying an MP or Senator, or by getting a LARGE enough amount of people for a political institution to recognise this issue of gameplay changes in MMORPG's infringing on consumers rights. But you would tie developers hands and make them forever worried of introducing new content for fear of being sued for infringing on consumers rights of gameplay changes.
I think I would prefer what we have now, and besides it sounds ludricrous
Lonewolf,
That was indeed a well thought out and lucid arguement.
Thank you!
However, that is the point. MMO's, and gaming in general, is a billion dollar industry. We need definition within the umbrella of MMO's to help protect ourselves.
Are we to expect what happened to SWG to become the norm? I believe that we owe it to ourselves to put our foot down and squash this before it does, and if politicans want to jump in and regulate it then all the better (or perhaps worse because they're politicians :P ).
Regardless, the NGE crossed a line never crossed before (at least from my experience) and not acting could potentially result in that line being crossed even further in the near future.
*edit*
I'd forgotten to mention that we did buy a product. I payed $50 for a game I can longer play because SOE wont support it.
If I had other options in how I can use the software I bought then I'd be much more accepting of what happened.
It's nice to see an actual mature arguement going on here for a change.
Actually let me change that to debate. Props to Lonewolf & Survoc.
I have been playing SWG myself since March 04'
Have tried other games like VG, Tabula Rasa, WOW, Guild Wars, AO ect.... In the end I have not liked any of them as much as SWG and that includes SWG after the changes.
In the end it all boils down to personal preference, I will never bash anyone for liking a game. That's why we play them right ! Also I understand why they have the disclaimers on the boxes that state the gameplay may change..
Best to luck to all in your gaming experience.
SOE may destroy the value of your items, considering that it is not a good choice to subscribe to any of SOE products, the have done it in the past, be smart. The risk your items becoming worthless after the next patch/publish is just too high for to justify a long stay in any MMO SOE is hosting.
If you have one active subscription cancel it, it is a real money saver, considering the price of an barrel oil nowadays.
Cancel subscription now, and your portemonnaie will thank you for it.
What exactly is the actual value of those items you speak of?
It is a game and it says on the box gameplay may change. Not to hard to understand.
If people like the game let them play it in peace.
"Great minds discuss ideas, lesser minds discuss things, and shitheads get personal."
What exactly is the actual value of those items you speak of?
It is a game and it says on the box gameplay may change. Not to hard to understand.
If people like the game let them play it in peace.
Show me where i forced someone to not play. I merely pointed to the risk of your items becoming worthless and the loss of real money by doing it.
It is up to you to live with that risk or not. It was not along ago were to pay subscriptions for a game was not only uncommon but unwelcome by the playerbase and if a company now wish to get paid, what is absolutely right for them to demand, the risk of the loss has to be known to their costumers, what is absolutely right to be demanded by the customer too.
What exactly is the actual value of those items you speak of?
It is a game and it says on the box gameplay may change. Not to hard to understand.
If people like the game let them play it in peace.
The value we place on in game items is as varied as the ammount of players there are in that game. Personally, I place some value on the commitment of time I put into something. I think many others do to simply because I'd bet 95% of any MMO population would not delete everything they have and start all over from nothing.
People say that it's just a game, but ask yourself if you would willingly destroy everything you have and do it all over again. In theory it should be fun because it's a game, but I doubt very much that anyone here would willingly do it.
That risk is inherent in any online game.
Because this is basically true for all online games, there is a percental higher possibility for an online game hosted by SOE and especially for SWG.
What I find funny about this comment, and I don't mean any offense to you Dterry, but they took decay out of SWG becasue people didn't like the risk associated with their equipment.
That right there implies to me that people do place value in their ingame items.
The issue with SOE & SWG is not that they changed the game. Its that they did it with very little warning a week after a major expansion went live. They commited fraud by selling a product then changing said product a week later. I pre-ordered the expansion on 3 accounts. A week later i cancelled 3 accounts.
OP keeps saying its their right to change the game. I agree it is their right to add things, take away things and change existing things accordingly. But NGE changed the base coding of the game, its taking an apple and making it an orange. Its you ordering a bed from rooms to go and getting a futton delivered to your door. They did this over the course of a YEAR with feedback from non-current subscribers to the game. While still developing the original game and developing the mustafar expansion, marketing the expansion and selling it. without the player base having any knowledge that the NGE was in development and would go live exactly 7 days after the expansion went live. Its fraud pure and simple we were lied to and cheated out of real money.
That is why we are pi$$ed and reserve the right to hate, complain and or whine about SOE and SWG from now until hell freezes over. K thanks
What exactly is the actual value of those items you speak of?
It is a game and it says on the box gameplay may change. Not to hard to understand.
If people like the game let them play it in peace.
The value we place on in game items is as varied as the ammount of players there are in that game. Personally, I place some value on the commitment of time I put into something. I think many others do to simply because I'd bet 95% of any MMO population would not delete everything they have and start all over from nothing.
People say that it's just a game, but ask yourself if you would willingly destroy everything you have and do it all over again. In theory it should be fun because it's a game, but I doubt very much that anyone here would willingly do it.
The value of an item created in the game can be indeed be intresting for a theoretical approach too.
Except of the resulting "marked value" i think an online item is worth a "basic" and real value determined by some variables like costs of raw material and for example costs of time invested to build. Because many of you think now raw material costs are virtual too i will point for example to the costs for electricity required to have an up and running PC , the costs for the data traffic between your client and the server etc.
An item can't be build without that basic costs and it is real money i am talking about.
In response to your last paragraph, it is because of pride. To bring back a classic server would mean admiting that they were wrong and they messed up and they probably realized that it would have a far greater popultaion than current servers. They do not want to admit that any changes they made were mistakes, so they will only look forward, not back.