AmazingAvery, I'm not going to argue with you, I don't think it's possible to change your mind, and you're free to have your opinions. However, arguing from such a trite standpoint as "You haven't even applied for beta" is just... Well, not much of an argument at all. Feel free to do a search for my name on the official AoC forums. What is your offical AoC forum name so I can do a search on you? I think it will be very telling to see our join dates (mine is April 05' if you want to take my word). I've enumerated the reasons one has an open beta. You assert that open betas are incomplete games, I assert that they're not. We're welcome to our disagreements, but don't assume because a person has a different opinion than yours that they've followed the game with less interest or enthusiasm as yourself.
I didn't realise we were arguing?
Maybe you misread but I didn't specify any particular person with the beta statement, for one whole year now, I have read and put up with alot of crap here, as so have others, the broad statement was aimed at the shit stirrers sorry. You would be suprised for just liking AoC what you can get called here;)
I don't think that join date is a measure of someones... whatever it is your trying to get across there? My name is just Avery there, joined Jan last year after Lurking for maybe 4 months, thought I'd get involved in the community, im at Pirate rank if that means anything. I've posted more here on these boards as you can see. Join dates and ranks aside, cant we both express a difference of opinion about something we like? Isn't that healthy?
I still stand by my statement that Open Beta's are incomplete games. Every one I have played has not been finished, or I have run into a bug, even right at that late stage. last few come to mind, LotRO, March 30th my B'day I remember I got stuck in a wall deep in a cave not too far from Archet. In Hellgate, I still suffered from what seemed like memory leaks in some places to me with just a few weeks till release, Perfect World more recently in Open Beta right now, when I fly high in some places I hit the invisible wall and get stuck inside it. Plus lots more. Its hard to change my mind when everyone I have found bugs in, bugs that are typical in general beta, not open.
I didn't assume anything just because two people follow the game have a vested interest in it, come to a minor disagreement when conversing about it. It happens every other day here! Seriously.
If you check that last quote about freeloading, Krackajap was the last person I quoted, thought it was obvious that statement was aimed at him and not you. But if you want to jump the gun...?
I think you just want to freeload for a month.
You don't think this statement is argumentative and hostile? Intereseting.
I wonder how many of the people moaning in this thread had / have actually applied for AoC beta.
Putting aside the hostility of accusing people of "moaning", I pointed out my join date on the AoC forums because I cannot provide you with any other evidence of my joining beta, which you seem to feel is the criteria necessary to give an opinion on the beta situation. When I initially responded to your post, I didn't accuse you of being a "freeloader" or add any other criteria for your opinion to have credence. I just politely pointed out where I disagreed with you. You did not extend the same courtesy when quoting my post, you accused me of wanting to freeload and not meeting your requirement of beta application (both quite untrue). I have responded to you 3 times courteously and without adding any ad hominem or strawmen to my posts. I'd just like the same courtesy.
I still stand by my statement that Open Beta's are incomplete games. Every one I have played has not been finished, or I have run into a bug, even right at that late stage. last few come to mind, LotRO, March 30th my B'day I remember I got stuck in a wall deep in a cave not too far from Archet. In Hellgate, I still suffered from what seemed like memory leaks in some places to me with just a few weeks till release, Perfect World more recently in Open Beta right now, when I fly high in some places I hit the invisible wall and get stuck inside it. Plus lots more. Its hard to change my mind when everyone I have found bugs in, bugs that are typical in general beta, not open.
PotBS's open beta was the "release" version. Sure there were bugs, I don't mind bugs. Bugs can be fixed. Crashes on the other hand are far more serious. And then there's server crashes and performance. PotBS discovered at the end of beta that they STILL needed to work on their server performance (The auction house went haywire with everyone trying to buy the top of the line ships in the happy fun time end of beta event).
Open beta's in fact are usually "past" the release version on the CD's you get. They're the most complete version of the game available. PotBS's disc is 2 major patches behind IIRC.
Now, I never expect a bug free game in a MMORPG (Single player games I tend to be more critical of). Like I said, bugs can be fixed. Aside from the crashes and server performance, there is another big bugaboo that I often see: Incomplete content such as SW:G (whole professions missing or never been tested), DAOC (empty dungeons, no loot, classes out of whack), WoW (some high level zones empty). High end content not being there right at release isn't a HUGE factor for me (I don't grind fast), but the low level stuff should positively GLEAM with polish in an Open Beta. AoC is worrying me because some classes are still being 'worked on' according to the interviews, and fleshing out abilities with 2 months to go means that there hasn't been much testing of balance, etc. And in a PvP game, that is fairly critical (DAOC anyone?)
SW:G never even got that far. The creature handler and droid engineer hadn't even been added to the game by the time it was released. They just appeared and POOF! Heh.... needless to say, they were broken. Badly.
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Originally posted by MortisRex
I think you just want to freeload for a month. You don't think this statement is argumentative and hostile? Intereseting. I wonder how many of the people moaning in this thread had / have actually applied for AoC beta. Considering like I said I just quoted Krackajap who had quoted you who had quoted me. If you have been around here for the past year you might very well agree that my statement is a valid one. Because I sure have read lately that some people feel that Open Beta is a god given right for them to just play the game thats all. Which is why I wonder how many people in this thread who have no vested interest in AoC have actually still applied for the beta. Putting aside the hostility of accusing people of "moaning", I pointed out my join date on the AoC forums because I cannot provide you with any other evidence of my joining beta, which you seem to feel is the criteria necessary to give an opinion on the beta situation. When I initially responded to your post, I didn't accuse you of being a "freeloader" or add any other criteria for your opinion to have credence. I just politely pointed out where I disagreed with you. You did not extend the same courtesy when quoting my post, you accused me of wanting to freeload and not meeting your requirement of beta application (both quite untrue). I have responded to you 3 times courteously and without adding any ad hominem or strawmen to my posts. I'd just like the same courtesy. Wow please stop assuming you have it quite wrong. Giving an opinion on beta can be done by anyone. Even if you have made 5 posts on the official forums your still entitled to come out of the wood work and have a say. I didn't argue against that. Honestly I responded/quoted to Krackajap can you not see that, who had was one of a few people who have posted who didnt put a valid statement up and was just a moaner.
Just FYI wondering how many people who are moaning here applied for beta for AoC - isn't hostile. Its kinda in step with the negative types that frequent this board here.
As soon as software developing firms figure this shit out.
They will do much better.
---End of line.
There is no Absolute Truth or Absolute Reality. That Truth is whatever the majority on hand want it to be. Real Truth is egalitarian and democratic and not at all compelled to correspond to the world in any useful way. Truth has no respect for Right, What's Best, or Needs Must. Real Truth is a dangerous beast in need of caging in even the quietest of times. Ask any prince or priest. Real Truth was the First Traitor. -- Glen Cook
They announced the collector's edition of AoC will include 5 buddy passes. Find a stupid friend/guildy to shell out the $90 for a collector's edition and grab a buddy pass. After buying really shitty games and playing them for a week (Vanguard and more recently Hellgate), I refuse to buy an MMO unless I have tried it first. Unlike a single player game, I have no hope of returning/reselling my purchase of an MMO without cheating the store I bought it from or the person who would buy my copy with a used CD key.
This is the reason why paying $50 for an MMO I haven't tried is unacceptable. WTS used copy of AoC following shitty launch -- any takers?
AmazingAvery You're going to Oslo next week i believe, so can we ask one big favor of you? can you give fair and unbiased account of the state of the game? will it be released on time or will it be postponed (your personal impression)? will it be "finished" or half of the features will be missing? how "tense" are people in the office? etc, etc Could we expect unbiased review? or does the saying that one does not bite a hand that feeds him is correct?
I find posts like these quite funny. Its like you've never played a P2P big name mmorpg before. News flash i havent heard of ANY big name mmorpg that has EVER had a completely open beta. The closest thing has been beta through pre-orders. OPEN BETA IS FOR F2P MMOS. Wow didnt have open beta, eq2 didnt, swg didnt. Why do you think age of conan will?
WRONG!!
SWG did, I was in it.
WoW did, I was in it.
EQ2 did, I was in it.
None of these were pre-orders, I just haunted their websites, participated in the forums, and eventually got in. I actually can't think of a single p2p game that didn't have an open beta. At least none that are still alive today.
SWG had open beta!?
They lifted NDA like a week before release. I was following the game since 2002 up until release and never saw any open beta.
Come to think of it ,I never seen open Beta before WoW's, give that I started playing MMO's at the end of 2002.
I think you just want to freeload for a month. I wonder how many of the people moaning in this thread had / have actually applied for AoC beta. Cody from TenTonHammer : "*pulls out the cheese and crackers to serve with all the whine that's going on*" Quite Apt...
Open betas usually do not last a month. They are usually one or two weeks right before release. They allow developers to stress their servers to the point of failure with thousands of players logging in and playing at once. A pool of 10,000 testers will not accomplish this. With 10,000 testers, perhaps only 10% would be logged in at once for various reasons (lack of interest, different time zones, other committments).
So Funcom will give invites to their 100,000 beta applicants. Sounds like a lot, but consider that a number of those are multiple applications from the same people. Another chunk of applications are from people who are not 18 (Funcom can require a valid credit card as proof of age before allowing people to test the game. It's been done before by other companies). Another group have computers below the minimum specs to run the game. Let's say that from 100,000 applicants, the number of acceptible applicants has been cut in half to about 50,000. That's not an unreasonable assumption.
Now, 10% of those 50,000 actually log in at the same time for stress testing. That's 5,000 people. Probably barely enough to test one server, but not really enough to do the job thoroughly. Stress testing involves loading a server up until it crashes or nearly crashes. Tweaks are made to the network/server code, then it's loaded up again to the point of crashing. This process is repeated for days. Developers need a lot of patient testers to do this. A number of people get burned out during stress testing and do not log in. That's why even more testers are needed.
Usually, the stress testing is done for a few hours a day in the evenings U.S. time because that's when the pool of testers tends to be at its peak. For the rest of the day and night, the servers are left up to let large numbers of people whack away at the game and sometimes find bugs closed beta testers did not find. Usually, open beta testers are left to play the game as a reward for enduring the painful lag and crashes during stress tests.
Another post in this thread claimed stress tests can be automated. Sure, they can be, but I doubt an automated stress test is quite as reliable as having real, live people hammering away at a server. People tend to do things developers never expected. Those actions can reveal all kinds of surprises about a game: security flaws, game-stopping bugs, etc.
That week or two of open beta is also a marketing opportunity. The testers are all prospective subscribers. The game should be in a state of "feature lock". That means the basic systems are complete. There may be a few stray bugs, but the game should have already gone "gold", meaning the final version of the disks have been sent to the disk manufacturer. The game should not be in an unfinished state.
Open beta provides benefits for both testers and developers/publishers. That's why the fact that AOC has decided to forgo this part of the testing process is something I find a cause for concern.
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Originally posted by firsttimer
AmazingAvery You're going to Oslo next week i believe, so can we ask one big favor of you? can you give fair and unbiased account of the state of the game? will it be released on time or will it be postponed (your personal impression)? will it be "finished" or half of the features will be missing? how "tense" are people in the office? etc, etc Could we expect unbiased review? or does the saying that one does not bite a hand that feeds him is correct?
Hopefully what I am allowed to show, with captured video footage from me will do alot of the talking. But I promise to try and remember to take the rose tinted fan specs off. There will be lots fan sites there too. Just quickly about the tense thing, on IRC I know of one coder who most definately is not tense at all :P
I asked the community for some help with answers here and on the official boards, I have around 300 questions right now collated. Some editors from some of the fan sites going are saying that they will have alot of "free reign" in what they can show.
I hope Funcom clarifies the Open Beta / no trial weekend before launch issues soon to clear things up for people.
Footage is good and all but... try to take take the rose tinted fan specs off and pay attention to details (devil in details) not what was said but what was not said, what questions they avoid, etc, etc i do think you know what i am talking about... have a good trip Oslo is beautiful!
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Originally posted by aristoculous
Originally posted by KaltesHerz
Originally posted by Zathoral
I find posts like these quite funny. Its like you've never played a P2P big name mmorpg before. News flash i havent heard of ANY big name mmorpg that has EVER had a completely open beta. The closest thing has been beta through pre-orders. OPEN BETA IS FOR F2P MMOS. Wow didnt have open beta, eq2 didnt, swg didnt. Why do you think age of conan will?
WRONG!!
SWG did, I was in it.
WoW did, I was in it.
EQ2 did, I was in it.
None of these were pre-orders, I just haunted their websites, participated in the forums, and eventually got in. I actually can't think of a single p2p game that didn't have an open beta. At least none that are still alive today.
SWG had open beta!?
They lifted NDA like a week before release. I was following the game since 2002 up until release and never saw any open beta.
Come to think of it ,I never seen open Beta before WoW's, give that I started playing MMO's at the end of 2002.
Pretty sure SWG let you in 3 days early if you pre ordered the game. WoW: BC didnt have open beta. A few free mmo's were open beta by invite only too.
I find posts like these quite funny. Its like you've never played a P2P big name mmorpg before. News flash i havent heard of ANY big name mmorpg that has EVER had a completely open beta. The closest thing has been beta through pre-orders. OPEN BETA IS FOR F2P MMOS. Wow didnt have open beta, eq2 didnt, swg didnt. Why do you think age of conan will?
WRONG!!
SWG did, I was in it.
WoW did, I was in it.
EQ2 did, I was in it.
None of these were pre-orders, I just haunted their websites, participated in the forums, and eventually got in. I actually can't think of a single p2p game that didn't have an open beta. At least none that are still alive today.
SWG had open beta!?
They lifted NDA like a week before release. I was following the game since 2002 up until release and never saw any open beta.
Come to think of it ,I never seen open Beta before WoW's, give that I started playing MMO's at the end of 2002.
Pretty sure SWG let you in 3 days early if you pre ordered the game. WoW: BC didnt have open beta. A few free mmo's were open beta by invite only too.
Thats not same thing now is it .
WoW BC is an expansion, why would it. Free MMO's, I have tried a few, I'd rather pay for a good one
playing the "rated M" card doesn't hold water with me, because I refuse to believe that they won't offer a free trial at some point.
They already said that the gore is able to be turned off, so they could release a beta-minus-the-gore, and people could still get a look at what is to come, AND they get to test their servers (which will be able to handle 100k people easily), AND get the free-ish publicity.
To not have that in effect is definately a reason beyond their excuse of 100k subscribers... that's not that huge of a number that close to launch.
They said that they got 100,000 applicants when they allowed beta to be applied for, but yet, they don't have the capacity for that? I find that hard to believe that they wouldn't have a week or so of beta at least... because won't 100,000 people buy the game? I think they don't want what happened to PotBS and TR to happen to this game. I think it has a big enough buzz going right now, and they don't want to risk it on a broken game mechanic. That's just my conspiracy theory, but it is strange that they behave this way.
Richard Garriot himself alluded to the long open beta of TR being a mistake. Many people used it as a try-out, saw alot of bugs and as a result, didn't sub. Beta is for testing a game, not coming to major conclusions about it which I think is what happened.
Garriot got it wrong. That was his problem. Closed betas are for testing. That is true enough. But open betas aren't for testing. WoW and LOTRO got this right. Open betas are for the masses. When you prepare an MMO for Open Beta, it has to be polished. To say that Open Betas are a mistake is to mis-attribute the fault, and to lay blame inappropriately.
_____________________________ Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
If your products good wouldn't you want to show it off?
Not for free, no.
At least, not before the product was available for purchase. I might offer trials to boost sales if they are flagging ... but until that day, why the hell would I give you something for free?
Without reading all 15 pages of this thread, all I have to say is that if there will be no AoC Open Beta, then they better accept a shit-load of pending beta applications. People want to see if the game will run well on their system, if at all, and if they actually like the game and are willing to pay ~ $50 + $15/month for the game.
Without reading all 15 pages of this thread, all I have to say is that if there will be no AoC Open Beta, then they better accept a shit-load of pending beta applications. People want to see if the game will run well on their system, if at all, and if they actually like the game and are willing to pay ~ $50 + $15/month for the game.
The game has been in beta for months. It's just not open to everyone ... only 100,000 or something like that. Like it or not, those 100k people are more than capable of giving them meaningful feedback about performance on various systems. They simply do not need to have an open beta to make whatever decisions they're going to make about accessibility.
And, AGAIN: no MMO eschews all free-trial periods. AFTER LAUNCH. WTF is it with people demanding a free ride before the game comes out?
Well, as I stated previously, it's kind of like a "try before you buy" deal that people want.
I know the game has been in Closed Beta for a long time, but if they don't have an Open Beta, then I would like to see FC accept a lot of applications from people who applied.
If your products good wouldn't you want to show it off?
Not for free, no.
At least, not before the product was available for purchase. I might offer trials to boost sales if they are flagging ... but until that day, why the hell would I give you something for free?
I'm surprised by the number of people who are really drinking the Funcom Kool-aid; "if Funcom does it, it must be the right thing to do".
Publishers need to strike while the iron is hot. They only get one launch. That's when the publicity and the hype reach their peak. Giving out free trials months after launch doesn't do much to generate the kind of subscriber numbers possible at launch. It's hard to overcome a bad launch. Just ask Funcom. They screwed the pooch with Anarchy Online's launch and it took a long time for that game to recover. Funcom lost a lot of subscribers by releasing a piece of junk. I believe AO could have been much more successful if it had a better launch.
Honestly, I would love for AoC to be an incredible game. I've been following it for quite a long time and applied to beta test it when applications were first accepted. The fact that they've canceled their open beta is not a good sign for this game, despite the way some fanboys are trying to fool themselves and others.
And, AGAIN: no MMO eschews all free-trial periods. AFTER LAUNCH. WTF is it with people demanding a free ride before the game comes out?
Please read my post describing what really happens in an open beta. Despite statements to the contrary, it's not a "free ride before the game comes out".
Comments
I didn't realise we were arguing?
Maybe you misread but I didn't specify any particular person with the beta statement, for one whole year now, I have read and put up with alot of crap here, as so have others, the broad statement was aimed at the shit stirrers sorry. You would be suprised for just liking AoC what you can get called here;)
I don't think that join date is a measure of someones... whatever it is your trying to get across there? My name is just Avery there, joined Jan last year after Lurking for maybe 4 months, thought I'd get involved in the community, im at Pirate rank if that means anything. I've posted more here on these boards as you can see. Join dates and ranks aside, cant we both express a difference of opinion about something we like? Isn't that healthy?
I still stand by my statement that Open Beta's are incomplete games. Every one I have played has not been finished, or I have run into a bug, even right at that late stage. last few come to mind, LotRO, March 30th my B'day I remember I got stuck in a wall deep in a cave not too far from Archet. In Hellgate, I still suffered from what seemed like memory leaks in some places to me with just a few weeks till release, Perfect World more recently in Open Beta right now, when I fly high in some places I hit the invisible wall and get stuck inside it. Plus lots more. Its hard to change my mind when everyone I have found bugs in, bugs that are typical in general beta, not open.
I didn't assume anything just because two people follow the game have a vested interest in it, come to a minor disagreement when conversing about it. It happens every other day here! Seriously.
If you check that last quote about freeloading, Krackajap was the last person I quoted, thought it was obvious that statement was aimed at him and not you. But if you want to jump the gun...?
I think you just want to freeload for a month.
You don't think this statement is argumentative and hostile? Intereseting.
I wonder how many of the people moaning in this thread had / have actually applied for AoC beta.
Putting aside the hostility of accusing people of "moaning", I pointed out my join date on the AoC forums because I cannot provide you with any other evidence of my joining beta, which you seem to feel is the criteria necessary to give an opinion on the beta situation. When I initially responded to your post, I didn't accuse you of being a "freeloader" or add any other criteria for your opinion to have credence. I just politely pointed out where I disagreed with you. You did not extend the same courtesy when quoting my post, you accused me of wanting to freeload and not meeting your requirement of beta application (both quite untrue). I have responded to you 3 times courteously and without adding any ad hominem or strawmen to my posts. I'd just like the same courtesy.
PotBS's open beta was the "release" version. Sure there were bugs, I don't mind bugs. Bugs can be fixed. Crashes on the other hand are far more serious. And then there's server crashes and performance. PotBS discovered at the end of beta that they STILL needed to work on their server performance (The auction house went haywire with everyone trying to buy the top of the line ships in the happy fun time end of beta event).
Open beta's in fact are usually "past" the release version on the CD's you get. They're the most complete version of the game available. PotBS's disc is 2 major patches behind IIRC.
Now, I never expect a bug free game in a MMORPG (Single player games I tend to be more critical of). Like I said, bugs can be fixed. Aside from the crashes and server performance, there is another big bugaboo that I often see: Incomplete content such as SW:G (whole professions missing or never been tested), DAOC (empty dungeons, no loot, classes out of whack), WoW (some high level zones empty). High end content not being there right at release isn't a HUGE factor for me (I don't grind fast), but the low level stuff should positively GLEAM with polish in an Open Beta. AoC is worrying me because some classes are still being 'worked on' according to the interviews, and fleshing out abilities with 2 months to go means that there hasn't been much testing of balance, etc. And in a PvP game, that is fairly critical (DAOC anyone?)
SW:G never even got that far. The creature handler and droid engineer hadn't even been added to the game by the time it was released. They just appeared and POOF! Heh.... needless to say, they were broken. Badly.
Just FYI wondering how many people who are moaning here applied for beta for AoC - isn't hostile. Its kinda in step with the negative types that frequent this board here.
Closed Beta is for testing and fixing bugs.
Open Beta is marketing.
As soon as software developing firms figure this shit out.
They will do much better.
---End of line.
There is no Absolute Truth or Absolute Reality. That Truth is whatever the majority on hand want it to be. Real Truth is egalitarian and democratic and not at all compelled to correspond to the world in any useful way. Truth has no respect for Right, What's Best, or Needs Must. Real Truth is a dangerous beast in need of caging in even the quietest of times.
Ask any prince or priest.
Real Truth was the First Traitor.
-- Glen Cook
They announced the collector's edition of AoC will include 5 buddy passes. Find a stupid friend/guildy to shell out the $90 for a collector's edition and grab a buddy pass. After buying really shitty games and playing them for a week (Vanguard and more recently Hellgate), I refuse to buy an MMO unless I have tried it first. Unlike a single player game, I have no hope of returning/reselling my purchase of an MMO without cheating the store I bought it from or the person who would buy my copy with a used CD key.
This is the reason why paying $50 for an MMO I haven't tried is unacceptable. WTS used copy of AoC following shitty launch -- any takers?
SWG did, I was in it.
WoW did, I was in it.
EQ2 did, I was in it.
None of these were pre-orders, I just haunted their websites, participated in the forums, and eventually got in. I actually can't think of a single p2p game that didn't have an open beta. At least none that are still alive today.
SWG had open beta!?They lifted NDA like a week before release. I was following the game since 2002 up until release and never saw any open beta.
Come to think of it ,I never seen open Beta before WoW's, give that I started playing MMO's at the end of 2002.
Open betas usually do not last a month. They are usually one or two weeks right before release. They allow developers to stress their servers to the point of failure with thousands of players logging in and playing at once. A pool of 10,000 testers will not accomplish this. With 10,000 testers, perhaps only 10% would be logged in at once for various reasons (lack of interest, different time zones, other committments).
So Funcom will give invites to their 100,000 beta applicants. Sounds like a lot, but consider that a number of those are multiple applications from the same people. Another chunk of applications are from people who are not 18 (Funcom can require a valid credit card as proof of age before allowing people to test the game. It's been done before by other companies). Another group have computers below the minimum specs to run the game. Let's say that from 100,000 applicants, the number of acceptible applicants has been cut in half to about 50,000. That's not an unreasonable assumption.
Now, 10% of those 50,000 actually log in at the same time for stress testing. That's 5,000 people. Probably barely enough to test one server, but not really enough to do the job thoroughly. Stress testing involves loading a server up until it crashes or nearly crashes. Tweaks are made to the network/server code, then it's loaded up again to the point of crashing. This process is repeated for days. Developers need a lot of patient testers to do this. A number of people get burned out during stress testing and do not log in. That's why even more testers are needed.
Usually, the stress testing is done for a few hours a day in the evenings U.S. time because that's when the pool of testers tends to be at its peak. For the rest of the day and night, the servers are left up to let large numbers of people whack away at the game and sometimes find bugs closed beta testers did not find. Usually, open beta testers are left to play the game as a reward for enduring the painful lag and crashes during stress tests.
Another post in this thread claimed stress tests can be automated. Sure, they can be, but I doubt an automated stress test is quite as reliable as having real, live people hammering away at a server. People tend to do things developers never expected. Those actions can reveal all kinds of surprises about a game: security flaws, game-stopping bugs, etc.
That week or two of open beta is also a marketing opportunity. The testers are all prospective subscribers. The game should be in a state of "feature lock". That means the basic systems are complete. There may be a few stray bugs, but the game should have already gone "gold", meaning the final version of the disks have been sent to the disk manufacturer. The game should not be in an unfinished state.
Open beta provides benefits for both testers and developers/publishers. That's why the fact that AOC has decided to forgo this part of the testing process is something I find a cause for concern.
I asked the community for some help with answers here and on the official boards, I have around 300 questions right now collated. Some editors from some of the fan sites going are saying that they will have alot of "free reign" in what they can show.
I hope Funcom clarifies the Open Beta / no trial weekend before launch issues soon to clear things up for people.
Footage is good and all but... try to take take the rose tinted fan specs off and pay attention to details (devil in details) not what was said but what was not said, what questions they avoid, etc, etc i do think you know what i am talking about... have a good trip Oslo is beautiful!
SWG did, I was in it.
WoW did, I was in it.
EQ2 did, I was in it.
None of these were pre-orders, I just haunted their websites, participated in the forums, and eventually got in. I actually can't think of a single p2p game that didn't have an open beta. At least none that are still alive today.
SWG had open beta!?They lifted NDA like a week before release. I was following the game since 2002 up until release and never saw any open beta.
Come to think of it ,I never seen open Beta before WoW's, give that I started playing MMO's at the end of 2002.
Pretty sure SWG let you in 3 days early if you pre ordered the game. WoW: BC didnt have open beta. A few free mmo's were open beta by invite only too.
SWG did, I was in it.
WoW did, I was in it.
EQ2 did, I was in it.
None of these were pre-orders, I just haunted their websites, participated in the forums, and eventually got in. I actually can't think of a single p2p game that didn't have an open beta. At least none that are still alive today.
SWG had open beta!?They lifted NDA like a week before release. I was following the game since 2002 up until release and never saw any open beta.
Come to think of it ,I never seen open Beta before WoW's, give that I started playing MMO's at the end of 2002.
Thats not same thing now is itPretty sure SWG let you in 3 days early if you pre ordered the game. WoW: BC didnt have open beta. A few free mmo's were open beta by invite only too.
WoW BC is an expansion, why would it. Free MMO's, I have tried a few, I'd rather pay for a good one
Good thing about an open beta is it really tests the servers, I do smell a rat here.
I aint gonna bug test this after launch, fighting thousands of others trying deal with server lag.
wait a few months after launch, let you suckers sort it out .
cheers!
BTW I'm not a freeloader. I'm just convince that Open Beta Testing is a rather important part of software development.
playing the "rated M" card doesn't hold water with me, because I refuse to believe that they won't offer a free trial at some point.
They already said that the gore is able to be turned off, so they could release a beta-minus-the-gore, and people could still get a look at what is to come, AND they get to test their servers (which will be able to handle 100k people easily), AND get the free-ish publicity.
To not have that in effect is definately a reason beyond their excuse of 100k subscribers... that's not that huge of a number that close to launch.
Elite poster by 82
Richard Garriot himself alluded to the long open beta of TR being a mistake. Many people used it as a try-out, saw alot of bugs and as a result, didn't sub. Beta is for testing a game, not coming to major conclusions about it which I think is what happened.
Garriot got it wrong. That was his problem. Closed betas are for testing. That is true enough. But open betas aren't for testing. WoW and LOTRO got this right. Open betas are for the masses. When you prepare an MMO for Open Beta, it has to be polished. To say that Open Betas are a mistake is to mis-attribute the fault, and to lay blame inappropriately.
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If your products good wouldn't you want to show it off?
Wow and SwG both had a open beta.
Not for free, no.
At least, not before the product was available for purchase. I might offer trials to boost sales if they are flagging ... but until that day, why the hell would I give you something for free?
Without reading all 15 pages of this thread, all I have to say is that if there will be no AoC Open Beta, then they better accept a shit-load of pending beta applications. People want to see if the game will run well on their system, if at all, and if they actually like the game and are willing to pay ~ $50 + $15/month for the game.
Name one top pc game that has not had a open beta or free demo?
The reason you offer the game free is to get people hooked. If AoC sucks then they shouldn't have a pen beta.
The game has been in beta for months. It's just not open to everyone ... only 100,000 or something like that. Like it or not, those 100k people are more than capable of giving them meaningful feedback about performance on various systems. They simply do not need to have an open beta to make whatever decisions they're going to make about accessibility.
And, AGAIN: no MMO eschews all free-trial periods. AFTER LAUNCH. WTF is it with people demanding a free ride before the game comes out?
Well, as I stated previously, it's kind of like a "try before you buy" deal that people want.
I know the game has been in Closed Beta for a long time, but if they don't have an Open Beta, then I would like to see FC accept a lot of applications from people who applied.
not 100k testers. 100k applied. As stated before open beta is not only used to test the product, it's also.used to show off your product.
The reasons for not having a open beta on the other hand, could be maybe the product is not working or the product is not going to sell.
Not for free, no.
At least, not before the product was available for purchase. I might offer trials to boost sales if they are flagging ... but until that day, why the hell would I give you something for free?
I'm surprised by the number of people who are really drinking the Funcom Kool-aid; "if Funcom does it, it must be the right thing to do".
Publishers need to strike while the iron is hot. They only get one launch. That's when the publicity and the hype reach their peak. Giving out free trials months after launch doesn't do much to generate the kind of subscriber numbers possible at launch. It's hard to overcome a bad launch. Just ask Funcom. They screwed the pooch with Anarchy Online's launch and it took a long time for that game to recover. Funcom lost a lot of subscribers by releasing a piece of junk. I believe AO could have been much more successful if it had a better launch.
Honestly, I would love for AoC to be an incredible game. I've been following it for quite a long time and applied to beta test it when applications were first accepted. The fact that they've canceled their open beta is not a good sign for this game, despite the way some fanboys are trying to fool themselves and others.
Please read my post describing what really happens in an open beta. Despite statements to the contrary, it's not a "free ride before the game comes out".
mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/162785/page/15