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book 12: month of nerfing tanks!
smitty0356
Member Posts: 368
Wow, so the month of the guardian is here, and boy did they do them some favors...
They more than doubled "deep breath" recharge which is a MAJOR hit to a guardians defense.... absolutely MAJOR.
removed the ability to shield swipe and "catch a breath" off of the same block... which I can kinda see, but considering this month is supposed to improve the class, I really don't like it.
THEN the new melee stance gives a +20% power cost, -5% evade, NO block to gain +15% of lame tank damage... 15%?!!? that is not worth the lack of all defense... if tanks did champion damage, then I could see it, but 15% damage on 70 damage is not worth the hit to defense
Not to mention the new skills are lame.
Elite poster by 82
Comments
Face it, Deep Breath being on a (slotted) 2.5 minute timer was an obvious mistake. It was a crutch. They improved several of their heals to (sorta) makeup for it, as well. Whatever personal defense they may have lost was made up for in improvements to their ability to actually tank well and protect their comrades. The single-target In Harm's Way mirror is a great skill.
Offensive stance is nothing great, sure, but it's something. Guardians will always (or should always) be near or at the bottom of the DPS list, it's just how it's going to be. Besides, Salt the Wound does some pretty nice damage I hear, almost 500 over 20 seconds. Can't complain about 25 more DPS for free.
Everyone is looking at the Burg changes and screaming that Guardians needed similar improvements when in fact the Burg changes are 1) More needed to begin with, 2) Lateral options (Mischief) or 3) Just for fun. The devs have already said they will keep a close eye out for the Deep Breath changes' impact on the game and will adjust accordingly, I suggest you do the same.
Got to step further back and consider the whole 'nerf' approach. Players need challenge. You got a basically PvE game. So challenge can only come from one of two places:
1. new content / dungeons / zones / crawls / areas etc.
OR
2. decreasing the skills / power of the player's characters.
They must do one or the other. With lack of challenge, people loose interest and go do something else.
Option 1 involves more work from Turbine, so you see them choosing option 2. Turbine is fighting an uphill battle. I'm sure they are working hard, and make a real go of it. But I have to think that it's an impossible task for dev's to create pve content at a fast enough pace. Not just Turbine, but any devs. That's why MMOs have to move towards more player-produced content, and I mean content generated from within-game actions. pvp, sieges, building, creating, destroying, etc. The whole dev-created story thing will just go too slow. These games (graphics, dynamics, plugging up exploits, etc) is just too much work to keep up with.
These books that lotro come out with every 2 months might involve 2-5 days of new gameplay max. Then you got 7 weeks of the same old same old. Turbine is just making the rounds, nerfing each class every book, so they can make that same old same old feel more challenging each time.
EDIT: and also, nerfs piss people off too. So they have to balance options 1 and 2. Do as much of 1 as they can, but throw in a little bit of 2, but not too much. tough job.
Nice! Like the characters didn't already feel like whimpy little girls and here comes more nerfs
According to turbine, a tanks collateral duty is supposed to be damage... like a captain is heal. It's unfortunate that a captain does A) more overall damage &
more healing than a tank does damage.
I think tanks are currently the most underpowered class (with the exception of MAYBE a champ at solo). Burgs are already pvp dynamite, and will be made more so.
I don't think they should release nerfs with the "month of ___" just as a point, because it is a slap in the face to classes that feel like they need help.
Elite poster by 82
Thats the part I hate in some RPG games, guy with a sword is more deadly than guy with a sword and shield.
Meh, I havent played a short while, but since I played tank, it doesnt sound so good. I never felt tanks overpowered at all so far to find it justified, and since LOTRO isnt a PVP anyway I dont see the reason to all this mysterious "balancing" anyways.
Meh...
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Guardians are given DPS stance , whats not to love about it ?
Giving Guardian similar DPS as Champ ,would make Champ bit absolete, dont you think so ?
I personally take all these changes with a smile
Rebalancing the classes how they have has made them far more flexible. Take for instance the guardian. There gaining a offensive stance which will drastically speed up the fight against inferior prey(Blues, Whites) Which will increase the levelling progression. Also dont forget the heal changes. Having the attack handle at the start will be a immense help. All and al I give the devs a kudo for good work.
Conversely I can see why people mite dislike the changes because there used to the way guardians have played. Only time will see how well the adjust. Hehe then again, Im a Minstrel. One way or the other, I heal, you live, I win
Change or no change, I always win as a support class hehe.
There will always be folks who are upset at any change, whatever it is - good or bad. I think the captains got excellent changes, and none of them could be considered nerfs, but there, as soon as the changes were announced, a thread popped up on the captain forum crying "nerf!" The OP is just one of those people who complain (and it's not necessarily the same people always doing the complainging, so I'm not calling the OP a cronic complainer - just in this case.)
Hey, look on the bright side - at least your "nerf" isn't as bad as the "nerf" to hunters last update. Hehe.
Actually, I'd like to reinforce the idea of flexibility and class rolls. The update for the guardian has improved his tanking ability, but at the same time has opened up another option that can be used in certain circumstances. I've seen the same pattern with all the class updates so far. Adding strength to the primary role and adding options for secondary roles.
Check out my LOTRO Blog: www.middleearthadventurer.blogspot.com
The added flexibility is something that I agree WAS added, and I also feel as if champions need ANOTHER looking over.
BUT, we are the last class to get a look!
AND, guardians STOP getting skills at 38!! so that's 12 levels with no skills currently.
AND, we are currently having some noted deficiencies in PVP, and in our primary role of tanking.
so we get this nifty "upgrade" that offers flexibility AND some hidden bonuses that are undeniablly nerfs:
Increased recharge times on our late-game skills (3x recharge to DB)
negative "revamping" of our reactive skill tree (removing heal from the attack chain)
Meanwhile burgs and champs are getting a very quality remake (which I am totally fine with). I think they need the skills they got, I am just saying that ours' should be more in line:
11 skills added!
new methods of recharging their panic buttons (like DB) without the insane recharge.
Primary role & secondary role bonuses
In all, I feel like we came out a little flat on our "special month" to the extent that I fees as though we may have taken a step back!
Elite poster by 82
I play Burg. And i can tell you Burg are getting few neat but not very needed skills.
I do understand Guardians may feel they are on "nerfed" side. But Turbine stated that the Guardian update is testing one. Just like Champion one was.
They will release it this way. Monitor how Guardian role change affected practical gameplay. And than improve Guardian in next update. Just like they did it for Champ
I understand their standpoint by doing so, but I don't feel as though it is a good way to reveal content.
1: advertise nerfs as an "update" or revamp is a bad idea.
2: Overdoing a nerf with the disclaimer of being able to repeal it, is just saying that they will only annoy you for a month or so. I personally, don't want to play a game with extra nerfs even if they are going away!
3: they just didn't add enough skills or spend enough time on this class considering our lack of skills, and our lack of role in pvp.
I see burgs as the #2 pvp class. They generally have the most "stars" 2nd only to hunters and their DF. Now they get skills that improve their escape clicks.... I just don't understand how they are getting such a bonus, that MAY make them the pvp class to be, while guardians got VERY VERY little... the speed debuff isn't even that great...
Like I said before, I think it's great what they are doing for burgs, but it is just silly what they are doing to guards.
Elite poster by 82
I think the gaurd got some decent updates.It will make it easier for the lower class gaurds to repair, and oh how nice is engage when you are soloing! and even in a group .And anytime your grouping with a gaurd 2 people he can shield wall you ,how nice is that?! I agree the gaurds deap breath was very short ,in a long dry battle 5 minutes comes up fast.
All in all i don't think it was all that bad, some decent stuff.