Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Jumpgate Evolution: Dev Journal: Flight Dynamics
Stradden
Managing EditorMember CommonPosts: 6,696
In this new Developer Journal, NetDevil Programmer Steve "Istvan" Hartmeyer talks about flight in their upcoming MMORPG, Jumpgate Evolution.
Jumpgate Evolution owes the basis of its flight engine to NetDevil's first product, Jumpgate. Arguably a unique feature, the Jumpgate flight engine allowed the game to be distinguished as an online spaceflight simulator, rather than a run-of-the-mill MMORPG, which were only then (in 2001) beginning to be churned out by a nascent industry. Jumpgate's distinguishing element was that, as in prior spaceflight and combat games such as Elite, the Wing Commander series, the X-Wing series, Freespace, and Alliegiance, the player directly pilots their ship, often with a joystick instead of a mouse.
Though often described as realistic when compared with other games' flight models, the Jumpgate flight engine is neither strictly realistic, nor is it by any means arcade-style. Perhaps the simplest description is "playably realistic". Underlying the flight model is basic Newtonian physics: engines apply a force to the ship's mass, which accelerates in response. During experimentation with early builds, the original Jumpgate developers quickly recognized that a wholly realistic flight engine would be incompatible with their vision of hands-on flight. Strictly realistic spaceflight creates a demoralizing list of playability issues: unreasonably large potential speeds, impossible reaction times required of players, inability of ships moving at greatly different speeds to fight or even interact effectively, as well as complications to travel because of the need to slow down again to rendezvous with a destination, just to name a few of the problems. The ultimate goal of Jumpgate was to re-create white-knuckle fighter combat as seen in movies and TV such as Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica, or Babylon 5, so solving the gameplay problems by departing from the hands-on control paradigm just wasn't an option.
;)
Read it all here.
Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com
Comments
Very good idea, both modes have their advantages that is for sure. I kind of recall one space simulator which had these controls and I loved it - it was a quite old Microsoft game perhaps 3-4 years old, just can't remember the name.
Definately something to look forward to.
Oh, how I love that game.
If I remember correctly Vendetta uses this flight system. Definitely a effective flight system if I remember correctly. Id often do just as they said, fly through tight conditions with dampners such as docking or mining but not using them when fighting. Although I often used dampners when I wanted to do screwball turns.
.... I wonder if Vendetta is still around*Scrounges around the internet
*
This is really going to add a GREAT deal of challenge and skill to advanced combat. I seriously can't wait.
Both Vendetta and Jumpgate Classic are still kicking.
Independence War II - Edge of Chaos had a very similar control scheme - and it was a ton of fun.
Normal flight was easy - you come to stop quickly, when you shut off your lateral thrusters you stop moving in that direction, but if you turn off the 'braking thrusters' all the 'fake rules' go out the window. You could achieve extreme speeds with basic thrusters, you could spin around and fire at chasing ships while still fleeing, things like that. It had two options, you could either toggle it, or hold down a key for quick moves.
Good plan - I'm really looking forward to this one.
I've played the original Jumpgate and had a lot of fun with it the only problem with that game was that very few others were playing it. Personally I'm looking forward to this game to come out. There are some PvP issues I think that need to be worked out because the game lends itself to being a griefers paradise. I haven't seen enough of the ideas for Evolution yet to see what NetDevil has in mind to keep that from happening though.
The flight engine used in Jumpgate is definately the most playable and my favorite of all space sims I have played. Takes a bit of practice but once you get it you are good to go.
Joystick Required
Jumpgate Forums
I liked the Wing Commander Series
Hmm kinda odd they forgot to mention Freelancer that game was pure awesome in form of flight controles and the jumpgate evo sounds like the same of Freelancer in some ways.
Jumpgate seems to become a space mmo i would really really want to play, so i can't wait for the next news and information they have to provide to us, damn nice. Been waiting so long for a new space sim generation, jumpgate evolution might very well be it.
Thumbs up here
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
It was Freelancer that had it.
The main flight model was arcade-y tight turns and very simple flying, with drag, thrust, lift, and gravity (sort of). But you could cut the engines and start drifting all over the place, with the only thrust as your afterburner. Then you could blow past an enemy and pivot to shoot him as he flies by, while still moving in the original direction. It was driven to the limit of absurdity in an asteroid field, because collision was very generous, and you could bounce from roid to roid, making you ridiculously hard to hit.
Which, overall, I had love/hate feelings about it. Bouncing off of asteroids was really cheap, cause you hardly ever got hit. If you did get hit, the only solution is to bounce off more asteroids, since if you have no idea where the next bounce will take you, neither do they. There's no logical way to rationalize the two flight models in the same environment. Switching between the two radically different flight models - and theyre REALLY different , like switching between an F-15 Eagle to Jumpgate physics with a button - at will is way too arcadey.
You could drift-mode past someone at absurd speeds, switch to the arcade-drag and stop on a dime, and then be right on his six. Whenever you turn, you go to drag mode to do an impossible hairpin, then drift mode to rocket in that direction. Really, you're just bouncing all over the place like a maniac, and, oh BTW, the guns would track the mouse to a degree, so you'd be shooting off-angle - and landing hits - the whole time. Quake In Space comes to mind.
I liked Freelancer for what it was: An all-around great Arcade space sim. I like Jumpgate by the same logic: An all-around great space Flight sim. It's the physics. In between sliding all over the place, drifting into Emma, and stopping on a trillion bajillion dimes with a full cargo load, there's the realism which is that much more immersive. I beat Freelancer in 3 days. I'm still playing Jumpgate.
Heh.. in Jumpgate if you "bounce" off asteroids or gates or stations... you'd better hope your going slow b/c otherwise your dust...
Even when docking at a Station and you have everything lined up perfectly and your velocity perfect as well or you'll wake up in the station just having lost that full load of rares, (oh by the way took you forever to aquire). You don't bounce off of diddly in Jumpgate, you blow up so I suppose you could say that with that little addition the Freelancer bouncing spaceship mode isn't a factor.
Well, yes bouncing off asteroids is cheap. But the same theory applies in open space. One flight mode has high drag and earth-style flight properties, the other model has minimal drag and zero G drift. Freely switching between the two will be like... Imagine in JGC if a cyclone could stop in a second with the push of a button regardless of prior velocity(edit: well, they kinda can. Okay how bout a Tensy? Nix? Cargo Tow?). Imagine any ship could do this.
Fights would be people abusing the ability to instantly brake and change directions at whim to make targeting difficult or impossible. The pace of fights would be greatly increased. It's no longer a Dogfight because people can switch to different physics rules at any time and back again. And you can do it too.
Arcade-y in the extreme. Quake in space.
I think one of the appeals to JGC was the attention to detail regarding DANCER. It wasn't a shoot-em-up Freelancer approach, it was an attempt to recreate the zero G characteristics of space without getting too crazy. Dogfights were dogfights. Takes Skill.
I suppose the same case can be made for switching back and forth between physics styles, regarding skill and such. To me, it just seems too silly and unbelievable that such maneuvers could be possible. It certainly turns down the realism.
In the new game JGE, can a fleeing ship dodge a pursuer's fire like in Star Wars? Or will all shots hit the target, and some kind of roll of the dice/calculation decide how much damage is done? I ask because the flight engine becomes less relevant if all shots hit the target. Dog fighting was always about getting your enemy's ship in your gunsights.
______________
Mark E. Cooper
AKA Tohrment
Proud member of Damned Souls since 2007.
http://www.damnedsouls.eu
Its no fun to fly a ship and not be able to control it, constantly crashing and loosing everything you've worked so hard for.
NetDevil needs this game to succeed and become a serious contender in the MMO community which means it has to be fun for a LOT of people not just the original Jumpgate community and a small handfull of others.
They're talking about doing the same maneuvers you've seen in Star Wars, Star Trek, Babylon 5, etc. When you watched those did it matter if they were real? Not really b/c it was fun watching.
The game you're thinking of is Allegiance, cool game, though it died out far too soon.
-Josc
The game you're thinking of is Allegiance, cool game, though it died out far too soon.
There is still a huge following of Allegiance.
LINK
The me who hears what the other me can't, is the dominant one.
Yea, IW2 was (and still is) an excellent game.
Its flight system is more realistic though, compared to what (basing on this interview) will be available in new Jumpgate.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DStuff