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Why DDT was Banned.
MrDDT
Member UncommonPosts: 276
I wanted to post this to clear my name. Im tired of waiting for KFR to make a post or reply back to me in emails so here is the list of emails of why I was banned.
I keep getting asked why I was banned and also people believe I was banned for exploiting which is not the case at all I was NOT banned for exploiting or giving out the test client.
I was banned for 1 reason and 1 reason only. I posted 6 lines of a private tester log into IRC while trying to help someone report a bug or possible bug.
From KFR to Me first telling me what happened.
The following Community Profiles have been deactivated and the Roma
Victor accounts associated with them have been suspended:
MrDDT
ArchDracis
Stokes
It has come to our attention that the account-holder(s) has abused their
trusted position as a member of the Roma Victor Live Test team and has
misused privileged software and/or information for personal competitive
gameplay advantage. Such actions are contrary to the nature of the
license agreement and, as per the Terms and Conditions of Service,
RedBedlam accordingly reserves the right to terminate these accounts
with no further notice. More information is available here:
http://www.roma-victor.com/tacos/
As a result of this investigation, the above-named accounts and any
others associated with them are likely to be suspended indefinitely or
permanently banned. In the case of a permanent ban, all IP addresses
and payment details connected with these accounts may also become barred
and blacklisted.
If you believe that any of these steps might be taken in error, or
perhaps that you might be able to supply additional pertinent
information concerning mitigating circumstances etc., please feel free
to reply to this e-mail.
With regards,
-Roma Victor Support Team
http://www.roma-victor.com/community/live/support/
http://www.roma-victor.com/
From me to KFR
I dont know what personal gameplay advantage I was getting, could you please explain this? I use the test client each day, Ive made posts about any bugs or errors I have found, and Ive reported any exploits I have found.
Ive not used them to gain any advantage that was in any other way then was is normal in the game.
I do use them for the better loading for logging in without going through the patcher as the patcher takes about 60 seconds to 120 seconds to log in with.Ive noted many exploits that I could be using that Im not using, so I dont see why you would think Im abusing your trust. Thanks for the time to tell me why, please respond when you can.
Daniel Trocke
AKA
MrDDT
From KFR to Me
Hello there Daniel. I know you might not believe me when I say that I'm
sorry that we should end up chatting directly under these cirumstances,
but nevertheless that is very much the case.
Whatever I may think of your particular forum style, you have made a
significant contribution to Roma Victor, which means a great deal to us
on a very personal level. That much comes from the heart.
But is absolutely essential that we can completely trust members of the
test team. I'm sure I don't need to explain just how important that is
- especially for a small independent organisation like ours.
Please think hard and answer the following two questions honestly.
1) Have you ever parsed test client log files for information concerning
character or object locations, movements etc.?
2) Have you ever shared test data including these logs or part of these
logs with any third party?
If the answer is yes to either or both then we're going to have real
trouble rebuilding that trust and a good place to start would
necessarily involve being *completely* honest with us.
If the answer is no to both questions then we'll be having a different
conversation entirely.
Thanks,
-KFR
From me to KFR
1)Yes I have, but not for personal use. If I did it, it was to show that it could be done and that it was exploitable.
Cynewulf also told me about this data which is how I first started to look at it. As I am, I wanted to know all the information about it to know how to protect myself from people that might be using it in an exploited way.
2)I have shared test data these logs only in part. Ive not given them to anyone unless told to do so. The part I have given out was very small and I tried to only tell them to be wary of people that are testers and dont feel safe just due to the fact that you are like say hiding behind a tree or hiding your carts.
I remember I told Liam once that his carts are not safe just because he left them in the middle of the woods where someone is unlikely to find them. I told him this because I know people like Meinard who are always using this data for many different reason. Meinard himself once asked if I used it to find NPCs on the board (Player summoned ones) when I first logged in to see if romans had left them there or not. I didnt think of using this data this way, and I can see how that would be exploiting it. I told him no of course however, I did look to see if they showed up and how they showed up.
Is this something I do often? No its not. I see no reason to use it as the tools are in game for me to find these things.
I also told Creaven or his brother that there was a wolf on the board they were. They complained that they no longer heard howls and I said that doesnt always mean there is no wolf. I then posted this data to IRC to show them where it was. They also asked how I knew this, I said Im on the testing team and there are information that we have normal players dont. He said thats scary I told him yet, I told him worse was that people could even see what items they were wearing. I didnt do it to gain any info, I only did it to tell them that just be wary that they are not always safe.About the trust thing. I understand totally. Trust is a huge part of this game to me even in the guilds. Im part of a small company and we all trust each other with our bank cards and accounts. And just about anything else. So breaking a trust is a major thing to me also. I hope that I didnt do it here, and if I did, I would like to correct it. As you should see with the things like Meinard using those files like he did in the video made me very worried about what people could do with these test clients. Meinard is always pushing the edge of what he could and couldnt do.
As you know Ive reported exploits many times, if this is what you are worried about, you can see Im not using it for my own gains. If I wanted to exploit I wouldnt have told you guys about the other exploits and used them. But I fear that if I were to not do that, they wouldnt be fixed and then the game would fail. Im a big person on not using exploits.
Please reply back as I would like to make these things clear to you, and clear my name. (Which as you know is why Ive always kept the name MrDDT, I carry that name as a badge around from any game I goto)
Daniel Trocke
AKA MrDDT
Me to KFR again right after this one was sent.
After rereading the email I want to make it FULLY clear Ive never looked thru that log using a macro program or any type of program to find the data. I had to sort thru it myself, which is a pain in the ass, which is another reason I dont do it. I didnt read that part before fully, and I want to make that clear.Daniel Trocke
From me to KFR right after my IP was banned from the forums.
Looks like Im now IP banned from the forums. Mind giving me anymore info on whats going on and why?
I didnt think it would be this bad for posting a few lines from that log into IRC. Is there anything I can talk about or clear up? I dont feel this is just but then it is your call on what is or isnt. I really dont know what to do. I didnt know I would get in trouble for doing that in IRC. I didnt exploit it or abuse it. I was only trying to help in the ways I thought would help.
Please reply back.
Daniel Trocke
AKA MrDDT
From KFR to me
Unfortunately this mess with various members friends spreading the latest test client around has only made matters worse.
As it stands I'm afraid the evidence against you *is* pretty damning.
It's precisely because you did share those logs that we have had to
issue the permanent ban. I've seen discussions, involving you, that
concern how to abuse and/or exploit the data contained in those logs.
That's pretty hard for us to ignore.
Particularly now, we can't be seen to be lenient or showing any kind of
favouritism - especially with trusted members of the test team. I *know*
you thought you were only trying to help but I also know that you seem
to have got a bit carried away with it all.
Whether you believe it or not I'm deeply disappointed about losing you
and a couple of the other more vocal community members. I actually
think that the push-pull atmosphere on the forums has been somewhat
healthy - probably not for me personally but certainly for the RV
project itself.
For once the discussions here have involved me defending people and
other members of the team calling for zero tolerance - roles which are
usually reversed.
Noone's more sorry than me Daniel I assure you. Sadly however, they're
right. The ban's our only sensible option.
Thanks again for all your feedback and suggestions. I'm sorry it worked
out like this. We wish you all the best.
Regards,
-KFR
To KFR from me.
I understand the need for Zero tolerance and I agree with it, which is also why I cant fight for any more rights here. Sadly I didnt know this data was that important or I wouldnt have done it at all. Things like this come back to bite me as I do try to help to much. Well I wish you the best with RV and Im very sad to go because I do believe in the game and I believe it also was getting much better.
I would like to ask a favour there is one of my accounts I bought for another player and I never logged him in nor did I use it in anyway. Account name is Dracis. If you can just make the Liam's account. As I only paid for it and nothing else to do with it. He wanted another account to fight with and wanted to make it his own name. So I bought him an account when it was 9.99 for him to have.
If you dont I will understand, I would just like to inform you and ask, as there isnt much else I could do.Best wishes for you and yours, I truly believe one day RV will be the game to play. Its just taking longer then others expected.
Daniel Trocke
AKA MrDDT
From KFR to me
I've released the Dracis account. He'll need to change the e-mail
address to one he receives but other than that it should be good to go.
Thanks for the understanding and maybe one day we'll bump into each
other online again.
Take care Daniel,
-KFR
Me to KFR just a bit ago.
Thanks I will inform him right now. Thanks for the reply and yes Im sure we will. The MMOs are really not that big once you get into them. Take care and I wish you guys the best. You've always had a good idea of what the game should be for this type of market abet I might not agree with everything you do, I can understand why you do the things you did. Best of luck.Daniel Trocke
AKA MrDDTP.S. Im also going to release these emails to the public as I want to try to clear my name as much as I can. Right now people think I was exploiting and what not and I hate to have my name smeared through the mud. I did break your trust with putting those logs on IRC. Anyways i just wanted to let you know I was going to post these emails.
KFR's reply back in a few mins later.
Please don't make these private mails public. I've already made some
effort to make sure people know the full story.
http://www.roma-victor.com/community/bb/viewtopic.php?p=277619#277619
Text follows:
----------------------------------------
Let me make a few things clear, which should help put people's minds at
rest.
1) Test clients usually expire shortly after they've been distributed.
2) The most recent test client did not expire correctly. This was a
one-off and we are taking steps to ensure that it doesn't happen again.
3) One member of the Live Test Team shared details of the test data
(client logs) with players outside of the test team. That player has
been banned.
4) A couple of people gained access to the test client. They shared
account details with several other people and had therefore used
multiple accounts with this illegally obtained test client. All those
involved have been banned and IP banned. For some we've also blocked
and/or blacklisted their payment information so that it's that bit
harder for them to return.
The third item on that list is unavoidable. We keep the test team small
and try to restrict it to people that we trust. Obviously in this case a
trusted individual got carried away with trying to understand the test
data and shared it with a third party, which is a major no-no and this
individual was permanently banned as a result. That is a risk we will
always run but frankly, given the small size of the test team, it's not
that substantial a risk as far as the general player-base is concerned
and we do try keep an eye out for such breaches.
The fourth problem only arose because this particular test client did
not correctly expire. We've now put safeguards in place server-side to
verify and log the user identity and client footprint.
It's therefore unlikely that a leaked test client will be of any use to
anyone outside the test team in future - even trying to use one is
likely to get someone permanently banned straight away.
As for the trustworthiness of the live test team, we will continue to
keep a close eye on its members and will act without hesitation and with
zero tolerance if we find that any privileged information or software
from the live test team is misused.
Once again, we would urge people not to share their account details with
anyone and never to try and alter the authorised Roma Victor client
software.
Thanks,
-KFR
----------------------------------------
Thanks,
-KFR
Me to KFR just again.
Ok I wont make it public. I have already been posting these emails to the leaders of TdB, in our Nobles chat already. They wont post them public unless I say.
Best of luck again. Thanks for the post on making it clear.
You might want to change it to say I was also IP banned. Because people are still asking me if I will be back in the game with new accounts.Daniel Trocke
AKA MrDDT
If anyone has any questions please just post them here, I have nothing to hide.
What I dont understand is how I get banned for posting 6 lines of this log into IRC, but Meinard doesnt get banned for exploiting and hacking the client files with the tester build to get around hitboxes to show combat styles.
-MrDDT
Comments
What was in the logs you shared? Who did you share it with and why? Or was it just that you shared logs at all, rather than the log info itself being important?
Also, from the e-mail correspondence, KFR asked you not to post these and then let you know he made a post so people would understand why you were banned. You seemed satisfied with that and told him you wouldn't make these public. Why did you?
I've never played the game, however I found this to be an interesting read. I can see why he posted the information. What can they really do to him? He has been IP banned.
Odd because I asked him to change it and he didnt.
Maybe you missed that part.
This wasnt just to inform people that I was also IP banned but also let them know who did what.
Him not holding up his end saying it was clear is the reason why these logs are posted. If it were clear to people that I was banned and what reason I was banned I wouldnt have had to post these now would I?
Im sure you are going to wonder how I know it wasnt clear? Well mostly because I get asked at least once a day for over a week and not only are they asking why, but also asking if I will be back, and also wondering if I gave out the test client.
The logs questions you are asking Im not fully sure on as you can see I posted all the data I had.
I believe any logs posted from this log would have upset him, however, I cant believe he would ban someone only for this one reason and allow others to break rules and exploit the client and not ban them.
Not only have I had 7 accounts banned (6 really because one was given to someone as per the convo) but Ive been IP banned and not allowed to play again.
-MrDDT
I see. It does suck that he bans loyal customers for seemingly unimportant things. It's just as well, though. The game blows still.
Couldn't you change your IP (dynamically it only takes a few seconds), or use a socks proxy and buy a Visa gift card, virtual card, or pay someone else to buy an account? If they also ban by system ID, couldn't you reinstall windows or use a different system?
I don't see how anyone could ever really be perma-banned from an online game since there is no requirement to show a valid ID?
Just curious.
They don't ban you by your system ID (By Wich I presume you mean MAC address), and you can spoof that anyway if you feel the need.
They don't ban you by your system ID (By Wich I presume you mean MAC address), and you can spoof that anyway if you feel the need.
Yes I'm sure I could do all that as Phil has said, however, unlike others I carry my name with me. I have honor and I know many people and they know me for being MrDDT. My name is part of who I am.
-MrDDT
Im curious how you could possibly think that sharing trusted data with a 3rd party would be ok? If RV had done a tester-contract good enough, they could prosecute you for something like that.
I find the banning of you to be resonable, IP banning maybe over the top.
well, maybe I just read it wrong...
They don't ban you by your system ID (By Wich I presume you mean MAC address), and you can spoof that anyway if you feel the need.
I don't play this game, and I should not be nosy here. But I do want to point out one thing, its not worth the trouble masking your IP or whatever. Yes its easy, a VPN will do, a proxy will do. But why do it? If anyone in the game sense that you are Mr DDT reincarnated, the news will spread out and negativity set it. You will look like guilty as charged, and trying to sneak back in like a thief.Yes I'm sure I could do all that as Phil has said, however, unlike others I carry my name with me. I have honor and I know many people and they know me for being MrDDT. My name is part of who I am.
Stand by your own faith that you are Mr DDT, clean as a sheet. Whatever the accusation is just a wild claim, and you stand tall, as a man of honor.
Best wishes to you in your next game.
It was a total of 6 lines out of a report file. This file was in beta also. No one EVER said that I was not allowed to post this data into IRC. It was commonly known what it was from the beta/gamma. In fact thats how I first learned about getting the data was from Gamma testers and also a Dev asked me once about the data in it for bug checking.
The data I posted was lines of a report that would tell you if an NPC or Object was on the board. There were players reporting a bug about how an NPC wasnt on a board. I posted that the NPC was on the board and shown them the location.
They asked me how I knew? I told them I was a tester for RV.
So you tell me if I should be banned for that? I can see MAYBE removed from the testing team however, a ban is over the top. Plus a simple. "Hey that data isnt to be used in that way nor given out to anyone" would have worked much better as I would have told them. "Opps sorry I didnt know it wont happen again" and it wouldnt.
Other testers and players didnt know. I'm not like I was the only one that didnt know. Im just the only one that did it and it was reported.
-MrDDT
Thanks thats how I feel also. What sucks is I made a lot of friends playing this game and I do believe this game will be good to play someday. But now I cant help make it better nor can I even really play it when or if it does.
Mostly now Im just clearing my name though.
-MrDDT
lol, ddt..KFR asked u not to make the chats public! so what do U do..go and make them public. Thats funny sheit!
Once again your lack of respect for the devs, the rights they give you(test client) and everything else in game and on the forums comes out here in this site now.
Your ability to humiliate yourself and prove why you deserve to be banned astound me.
There really isnt much upstairs is there?
Thanks for the laugh!...
Without knowing the whole story (KFR seems to imply there's more than you are letting on to) its hard to say. Seems to me that the most appropriate response would be to strip you of your test access and call it a day.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
so he isn't allowed to do anything outside the game wich the devs have banned him from wouldn't approve of either?
he said that he wanted a decent post up on the forums from the devs stating why, and KFR did not deliver, so he posted it here. Your ability to not read half the post then flame, flame, flame astounds me.
Also, the writing style of this post makes me think you're an 18th member, please find a remedial english teacher and take lessons.
As much as this game needs, it needs players more than anything else.
RedBedlam shouldn't be banning anybody for anything short of IRL murder of a dev.
ExZ was pretty close, both mentally and locationally
You cannot turn your head to cheating because the game population is low. That is a pretty silly idea. Then the decent members of the community get sick of it and leave.
There IS more to the story here, as some readers may have guessed.
Mrddt has left out the part where he went into the logs and got info just to try to win an argument in mIRC. He insisted that another player had suicided to avoid fighting him. Someone else said the player did not. Mrddt promptly dug through the logs using the test client and posted the info in mIRC.
He used log info from the test client to locate a wolf and warn members of his guild about its presence.
He told an entire mIRC room how to use the test client to bind their bleeding wounds (which is not implemented) and how to use the logs to find other players. It just so happens that many of the people in that mIRC channel had knowingly obtained the test client in an unauthorized manner, and were using it without authorization.
Those same people were banned.
It was not a case of a couple people trying to avoid using the patcher for convenience. People were CHEATING. Of course they say they didn't.
It is amazing to me that people who secretly obtained a test client they knew damn well they weren't supposed to have, and secretly used it, knowing damn well they were not allowed to, will sit here and try to justify their actions, all the while claiming they never used it to cheat. And some of them were previously punished for cheating.
Oh yeah, and some, including Mrddt, are still breaking rules by coming back into the community against their ban with "anonymous" new identities.
People, stop believing the crap these clowns are feeding you.
I could go into what the 18th have done in the past and nowadays... but I won't, because your whole mighty legion might get banned for exploiting like no other guild in the history of RV. It won't of course, thanks to KFR and his penchant for the legionary "Relaxation technique"
If KFR had a "favorite" in RomaVictor, we all know it would be Augir and PI. Yet, during the great magic fork exploit, there were 2 PI members on the cross.
KFR has shown that he will take appropriate action based upon the offense regardless of who is involved. 18th members have not been on crosses or banned from the game because none have committed offenses that justify it.
A year and a half after release, the 18th remains the ONLY guild to ever take any internal disciplinary action against a member for cheating or exploiting. Meanwhile, other guilds have turned a blind eye to their own members cheating, and some guild leaders have even been "convicted" of cheating multiple times.
You have done exactly what children do: try to point the finger at someone else whenever they get caught.
Get some dignity and self-respect, and get on with your life. It's pathetic that some of you who have been banned from the game can't even accept that you are banned because of YOUR OWN ACTIONS, and just hang out trolling the forums of MMORPG.COM for a game community that DOESN'T WANT YOU AROUND.
You have a problem called denial. It will greatly assist you in the real life I hope you someday get if you take steps to address it.
your argument fails.
You assert that because KFR has not put any 18th members on the cross, that they have not done anything wrong EVER... yet in the next sentence you claim to have undertaken internal action against cheaters? have 18th cheated or not? make your mind up.
I am not pointing the finger at anyone, I am stating that 18th members have cheated and exploited but none have ever been punished. as you have so eloquently reiterated for me.
I've always accepted that I was banned due to my own actions, I just believe that I was banned unjustly.
<modedit>
Completely different. Don't try the twist-o-rama crap with me.
No, I did NOT assert that, nor did I say it or imply it. What I DID say was that no 18th member was on a cross because none did anything that justified it.Completely different. Don't try the twist-o-rama crap with me.
And you are as all knowing as KFR I suppose?
Your argument still says exactly the same thing, when you can find me proof that nobody has ever been crucified for ganking, spawnkilling, spawncamping, etc etc etc... Then I'll believe you only partly
since there have been worse cheaters in the 18th.
As for the rest of the argument, you disregarded that completely. Address the issues, Vlad.
You know, I started typing and I suddenly realized...
Wait a minute...wtf? Here we are in the RV forum of MMORPG.COM, and I am responding to a guy who:
- is banned from the game,
- dropped 2500 posts of useless crap in the RV forums, and has just continued it here,
- isn't welcome in the RV community,
- doesn't play RV,
- was a complete joke as a player, to include such stupid crap as the airborne legion in a 2nd Century historical game,
- still hangs out in the mIRC channel for RomaVictor on a daily basis, and trolls the RomaVictor forums of MMORPG.COM, months after being banned,
- and whose only "friends" from RV have all of the above in common.
I'll be happy to chat about in-game issues with people who are actually part of the RV community, or answer questions about the game from those who are not familiar with the game but are genuinely interested.
You wasted enough of the RV community's time as a player (as well as that of the devs and the mods), and here you are trying to keep wasting people's time as a banned player.
wait a sec, I started typing, then I realised... You must be a spin doctor for the government! conspiracy abounds!
1. granted.
2. What? All 2500? over a period of 2 and a half years? all were spam?
3.I happen to know a few of your 18th boys who would disagree
And every time I've come back to play I've had a warm welcome in Erring, You must be talking to saorlan and Vepgenus again... And because KFR says so is not really an acceptable response to this.
4. Not currently.
5. Yup, I did that to make you mad. I knew you'd bring that up some time soon.. anyway, I had screenies to back that up, you know when you get lag and you get catapulted up into the air? yeah, that's the airborne legion.. Legionary of lag.
6. I'm not banned from the #romavictor IRC channel, I go there because it's good company, and most people talk about stuff other than RV as well, add to that that they're a great bunch of people and you have the reason for that. As for being on these forums, I have a right to be here, and I don't think I troll excessively, compared to...say, Vepgenus of your very own 18th legion? I do still care for this game, If it continues getting better I might start playing again. If you want to tell someone off for trolling here, flame shane instead.
7. What can I say? You've got me there... But I stick with my friends and promises(Mostly)
So, let me recap. Just because a minority of people don't actually like me and want me struck from the record doesn't mean I'm going away, I joined the RV community in january 2004 and I will continue to stick by it. The fact that the KFR doesn't like me, since the dev or the game do not make the community, the community makes the community. Just because some of them don't have a sense of humour doesn't mean it doesn't need a bit of comic relief.
Then again, we all know you just posted this to detract from the fact that my argument is valid and therefore that you are wrong. You have a history of doing this on the RV forums too.
{Mod Edit}
I've always liked Phil and ExZ in game, and considering they both seem to be hacker geeks they probably could have done a lot worse than what they got banned for.
The fork bug? Come on, no one should have gotten any more than a rollback and crucifixion for that.