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we the vets have won
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I'm not seeing Pre-CU/NGE SWG ever coming back unless SOE sells it off to some other firm willing to shoulder the cost to bring the game up to modern standards of quality. (sort of like Jumpgate Evolution)
Anything else is just wishful thinking.
Unfortunately, no one really won anything in this war, losers all around from where I'm standing
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
we "win" only if classic server opens up. Even when the game shuts down I would call that a draw at best.
and btw your blind assumption of less then 10k subs is very very wrong. They are somewhere about 25-30k subs at least. (Mine opnion is based on a)number of officers counted (about 10k), b) number of players I see playing and alts they have; c) number of new players I met in the game and d) number of vets I see come back).
i really hope that they have a revert server, cuz then ill come back in a heartbeat.
We already lost and SOE lost too... now shutdown the piece of crap and someone make new Star Wars MMO
If by winning you meant that your favourite game, whose mythic pre-cu, pre-nge beginnings are pined for far and wide, is going down the tubes, never to return IN ANY FORM, then you are correct. Enjoy.
We vets have had no choice but to adopt a "scorched earth" policy regarding SWG. They won't give us our game back, so we've destroyed the NGE.
We voted with our feet.
They won't listen to us, so we starve them by denying them dollars.
Wow, you've truly demonstrated how disgusting humans can be - thanks for repeatedly attempting to ruin other's enjoymentUnfortunately for you you've failed, you havent destroyed the NGE (if thats what you are still calling it)- you've failed, and it serves you right for failing to accept the realities of life.
Are you implying that all 200K of us "griefed" you fanbois by quitting?
And as far as trashing SOE, all we have to do is repeat their own words or point out their own actions.
The time to be reasonable with SOE, to reach out to them is long past. We pleaded with them. We begged them. We offered compromise (give us classic, leave the NGE alone). We were repeatedly insulted, ignored, talked down to, and abused at every single turn. I went to the summits. I tried talking to them personally. I tried everything I could. Communication and compromise only happens when you have two sides willing to engage in it. SOE isn't willing to have an honest dialogue with it's player base, past and present, with all options on the table.
SOE lost us because they never made a SINGLE meaningful effort to keep us. All they offered was an ultimatum: Love the NGE or leave it. So we left, but not quietly.
I'm over wishing for classic servers. My game is never coming back. I recognize this. So, what I now want to see is the game close and, ultimately, SOE to close.
The irony is that all that has to happen to ensure both happening is for Smed to NOT be fired, for the management to keep on doing exactly WHAT they are presently doing, and for them to NOT listen to any pleas for classic. They are well past the point of even that being able to save them anyway.
You see, though I am regarded as a huge enemy of SOE, I am not their real enemy. They aren't capable of seeing who their real enemy is.... Because it's themselves.
Any organization that pairs "Honest" John Smedley with Chris "I Had A" Cao is destined to fail and fail spectacularly.
I hope that no one who has oversight of them at Sony realizes this. Please don't read my comments
So you are intentionally out of spite and failiure to move on, trying to ruin other people's enjoyment - thats wrong, its selfish, its creepy and its old - do something else.
It is my intention to do my (small) part in making sure that those who lied to us, cheated us, and yes, defrauded us suffer consequences for the NGE.
One of the participants, Jeff Freeman, has finally `fessed up to his role, apologized, and admitted that the NGE has changed his ways. When will Smed, Cao, Ward, and the rest do the same?
Do you think these people and companies should be able to so callously `F over 250,000 people and walk away from it with no consequences?
No... That's the ONLY way of making sure that nothing like this ever happens again.
If by winning you meant that your favourite game, whose mythic pre-cu, pre-nge beginnings are pined for far and wide, is going down the tubes, never to return IN ANY FORM, then you are correct. Enjoy.
We vets have had no choice but to adopt a "scorched earth" policy regarding SWG. They won't give us our game back, so we've destroyed the NGE.
We voted with our feet.
They won't listen to us, so we starve them by denying them dollars.
Wow, you've truly demonstrated how disgusting humans can be - thanks for repeatedly attempting to ruin other's enjoymentUnfortunately for you you've failed, you havent destroyed the NGE (if thats what you are still calling it)- you've failed, and it serves you right for failing to accept the realities of life.
Are you implying that all 200K of us "griefed" you fanbois by quitting?
And as far as trashing SOE, all we have to do is repeat their own words or point out their own actions.
The time to be reasonable with SOE, to reach out to them is long past. We pleaded with them. We begged them. We offered compromise (give us classic, leave the NGE alone). We were repeatedly insulted, ignored, talked down to, and abused at every single turn. I went to the summits. I tried talking to them personally. I tried everything I could. Communication and compromise only happens when you have two sides willing to engage in it. SOE isn't willing to have an honest dialogue with it's player base, past and present, with all options on the table.
SOE lost us because they never made a SINGLE meaningful effort to keep us. All they offered was an ultimatum: Love the NGE or leave it. So we left, but not quietly.
I'm over wishing for classic servers. My game is never coming back. I recognize this. So, what I now want to see is the game close and, ultimately, SOE to close.
The irony is that all that has to happen to ensure both happening is for Smed to NOT be fired, for the management to keep on doing exactly WHAT they are presently doing, and for them to NOT listen to any pleas for classic. They are well past the point of even that being able to save them anyway.
You see, though I am regarded as a huge enemy of SOE, I am not their real enemy. They aren't capable of seeing who their real enemy is.... Because it's themselves.
Any organization that pairs "Honest" John Smedley with Chris "I Had A" Cao is destined to fail and fail spectacularly.
I hope that no one who has oversight of them at Sony realizes this. Please don't read my comments
So you are intentionally out of spite and failiure to move on, trying to ruin other people's enjoyment - thats wrong, its selfish, its creepy and its old - do something else.
It is my intention to do my (small) part in making sure that those who lied to us, cheated us, and yes, defrauded us suffer consequences for the NGE.
One of the participants, Jeff Freeman, has finally `fessed up to his role, apologized, and admitted that the NGE has changed his ways. When will Smed, Cao, Ward, and the rest do the same?
Do you think these people and companies should be able to so callously `F over 250,000 people and walk away from it with no consequences?
No... That's the ONLY way of making sure that nothing like this ever happens again.
Make them apologise all you want, i think they should apologise. But im saying its sick for your intention to be trying to take away a game that 1000s and 1000s of people enjoy, although it wont happen.
Sometimes i think with the great power we gained over time we should build an organisation.
MMO worlds players association - MWPA
and we should distribute seals of approval, like
MWPA approved quality product and in case of
curent SWG MWPA dismissed product.
How much money would $OE be willing to bribe us ?
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Gamers getting organized!
I love it. Every industry seems to have it's watchdog groups. Why not MMO's?
oh yes me and my fellow vets are the ones lieing.I think its sad when people like you have to lie to new players interested in the game and when you lie to YOURSELVES that you have "won". You havent done anything, all you' ve done is wasted your time.
not soe who lied to us about the game time and time again.
not the fanbois who claim the game is good in anyway.
i have 250k friends who showed soe how much they enjoyed being lied too. we would have quit cu but they did leave some things in that made the game fun. and in the end they would have rolled the game back to pre-cu.
and we did win you fanbois are now begging people to come back. you are now lieing and saying the game is good to the newbies. most of whom i will start telling to go to eve a game that when ground combat comes out will blow ever mmo out of the water. i bet in the next two weeks soe will start begging people to come back. and by the end of the year sony will shut soe down. they don't need soe rep driving the ps3 down.
and i haven't wasted my time i've gotten thank you's from people who almost tried the game.
We are not begging people to come back, they're doing that one their own, we were asing people to come to these forums to help counter your pathetic arguments. The game is good in many people's eyes; it may still need improving, but thats what they are doing. You are the ones (or one) who are lieing to newbies.As long as you're happy with the thankyous from people you have deluded and arent expecting to achieve anything else then thats fine. I garuntee you swg will not shut down by the end of the year so dont get your hopes up.
Saay,
Do me a favor and post the following statement on the SWG forums. It will help them understand why the vets wont return...
It does NOT matter if the NGE is good or bad to us. This was never the issue, although most of us dont care for the simplistic linear loot-based game anyway.
The issue here is SOE broke the cardinal rule of MMO's...never change the core game. You simply dont change the game so much that it completely deletes all the work players put into the game. Why would anyone ever bother to play a MMO if you cant count on things being somewhat similiar 3 years from now ?
So stop trying to convince us that the game is good or this feature has been added, etc. We simply dont care. SOE violated the trust between developer and player and we wont forget that.
I personally think the NGE is pure garbage. Ive tried 2-3 of those free trials and was disgusted by how bad the game is now. But even if SOE hired back Ralph Koster and Richard Vogel, spent 20 million to completely relaunch a new version of SWG, I STILL WOULDNT COME BACK. The trust is gone SOE, you blew it.
SWG must fail for the good of the MMO industry. It must be understood by all developers that we wont tolerate having the core game mechanics changed
oh yes me and my fellow vets are the ones lieing.I think its sad when people like you have to lie to new players interested in the game and when you lie to YOURSELVES that you have "won". You havent done anything, all you' ve done is wasted your time.
not soe who lied to us about the game time and time again.
not the fanbois who claim the game is good in anyway.
i have 250k friends who showed soe how much they enjoyed being lied too. we would have quit cu but they did leave some things in that made the game fun. and in the end they would have rolled the game back to pre-cu.
and we did win you fanbois are now begging people to come back. you are now lieing and saying the game is good to the newbies. most of whom i will start telling to go to eve a game that when ground combat comes out will blow ever mmo out of the water. i bet in the next two weeks soe will start begging people to come back. and by the end of the year sony will shut soe down. they don't need soe rep driving the ps3 down.
and i haven't wasted my time i've gotten thank you's from people who almost tried the game.
We are not begging people to come back, they're doing that one their own, we were asing people to come to these forums to help counter your pathetic arguments. The game is good in many people's eyes; it may still need improving, but thats what they are doing. You are the ones (or one) who are lieing to newbies.As long as you're happy with the thankyous from people you have deluded and arent expecting to achieve anything else then thats fine. I garuntee you swg will not shut down by the end of the year so dont get your hopes up.
Saay,
Do me a favor and post the following statement on the SWG forums. It will help them understand why the vets wont return...
It does NOT matter if the NGE is good or bad to us. This was never the issue, although most of us dont care for the simplistic linear loot-based game anyway.
The issue here is SOE broke the cardinal rule of MMO's...never change the core game. You simply dont change the game so much that it completely deletes all the work players put into the game. Why would anyone ever bother to play a MMO if you cant count on things being somewhat similiar 3 years from now ?
So stop trying to convince us that the game is good or this feature has been added, etc. We simply dont care. SOE violated the trust between developer and player and we wont forget that.
I personally think the NGE is pure garbage. Ive tried 2-3 of those free trials and was disgusted by how bad the game is now. But even if SOE hired back Ralph Koster and Richard Vogel, spent 20 million to completely relaunch a new version of SWG, I STILL WOULDNT COME BACK. The trust is gone SOE, you blew it.
SWG must fail for the good of the MMO industry. It must be understood by all developers that we wont tolerate having the core game mechanics changed
Ok, a couple of things to address here - firstly alot of the other members seem to care about the current state of the game and reply to people, that come to the forums interested in trying it, complete lies, hence why i mention new features/developments and my opinion as a current player.
What you fail to have understood is that SWG doesnt "need to fail", companies (including SOE) have see the terrible effect the NGE had and the loss of subscriptions - i doubt any other company will be trying it too soon. Accept this, and the current player base, 1000s and 1000s of people, can continue to enjoy themselves without you intent on attempting to make SWG fail because you cant accept what happened. Regardless, this is all irrelevant as you are not able to "make SWG fail" as and when you please.
The number of servers that SWG has isn't really 'that many', it's just that the quantity of players is so low.
SWG dying ins't really a victory. A real victory would be either a) announcement of server roll-backs or b) announcement of another SW MMO (not by SOE).
Another form of victory would be to remove SW from SOE's hands and give it to somebody that will treat it right.
...
I would not go back to SWG if they rolled the game back. They would need to 'update' graphics and features in the game while removing bugs. Thats' not to say that they would need to 'overhaul' the game in a NGE capacity. Just new graphics and maybe work through some collision issues. After that... add content, quests, loot, and some end-game/game continuation ideas in there.
...
In short, victory will be different for each of the Vets or N(oobs)GE players.
I'm sorry but SWG is what 5 yrs old now. Do you people really believe you would have 250k subs today even if it had never changed. I can assure you the answer is NO.
And the people that play today even if they came in after the NGE are more seasoned "VETS" than most of you seeing how they would have been playing the game longer than most of you did.
Also the game is NOT shutting down anytime soon.
So whatever, you guys have fun and rejoice in your "Victory" ...
"The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the na
Had they left the game core alone and instead fixed actual problems with EXISTING systems and added more expansions and content, who knows?
SWG might have MORE than 250K subs right now. EVE had less than 100K back in 2005 but has over 200K today, which is ample evidence that if the SWG sandbox had been nurtured, grown, and added to that it could have grown despite being an older game.
Getting into a pissing match with your customers is certainly not the way to go.
It's sad that deep down some players are actually HURT, as in feelings, by an MMO and a company such as Sony to the point that they would actually like to see the product go away than to go through some changes. It's not a bad game, never has been, and isn't now.
I wish you luck.
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Not to pick here, but how do you have an active account in a game that's free? I mean, if you mean simply that you have characters, that's cool. Hell, I had characters when it first came out, and theyre still there from what I understand. Just curious...
Listen to the Spouse Aggro podcast at spouseaggro.com. Twitter: spouseaggro
Ok, I'm a starwars vet. I left well before CU/NGE, so I think i see it a bit differently.
What some see as a fight against the past, I see as a fight for the future. We don't want this happening to our games in the future and the failure of SWG to pull it off makes it less likely to see such changes in the future.
Balance games? Sure. Tweak? Definately. These are necessary components of a game, especially one played by people on computers. Look of the life times of sports, there are always minor changes and sometimes major ones to the games, but they are done without changing the concept of the game. Football make foward passes legal, but it didn't make running the ball illegal and a touchdown was still 6 points. They added the 2 point conversion, but it didn't invalidate the extra point. Basketball added a 3 point shot, but it didn't make a dunk illegal or worthless. SOE took a game and bascially changed it from the inside out and basically said, if you don't like it it is your fault, not ours.
What SOE did wasn't a balance or a tweak or even an opening up of additional possibilities, they made wholesale changes to the way the game was played on a fundemental level. It would be like going to a football game and finding that the ball had to be thrown through hoops instead of receivers and running backs had to dribble the ball down the 75 yard court and that a touchdown was suddenly worth a different value based upon how far away the play happened from.
That happening again is what is being fought against and that can never be brought up too often.
I'd recommend looking into those other posts before making such accusations.
Dude, 2005 called and said they want there post back. But seriously it was 2 years ago, and the game has more content now then ever. Sure it can be improved, what game doesn't? I just find it funny this sense of entitlement that some of you think you are owed. If the NGE is here a year from now, are all still going to be here posting and crying about PRE-CU, i bet you are, and its pathetic.
Dude, 2005 called and said they want there post back. But seriously it was 2 years ago, and the game has more content now then ever. Sure it can be improved, what game doesn't? I just find it funny this sense of entitlement that some of you think you are owed. If the NGE is here a year from now, are all still going to be here posting and crying about PRE-CU, i bet you are, and its pathetic.
Dude, 2005 called and said they want there post back. But seriously it was 2 years ago, and the game has more content now then ever. Sure it can be improved, what game doesn't? I just find it funny this sense of entitlement that some of you think you are owed. If the NGE is here a year from now, are all still going to be here posting and crying about PRE-CU, i bet you are, and its pathetic.
Did you even read my post? I'd gather not from the completely unrelated response.
One, I've already moved on and playing other games, even SoE games (currently subscribed to EQ2). I wouldn't go back to SWG even if it went back to pre-CU/NGE. But that doesn't mean I want other developers to get it into their head that they can make that kind of change to games in the future and get away with it without economical reprecussions. To me, that is what this fight represents. As for crying? Nah. Fighting for the future of MMORPGs? Yeah. I don't care if it is SWG or WoW, no game should get away with what SoE did in SWG, it devalues the game and the time spent in the game, especially when the company blantly lies about the future of the game until after they sucker you into buying the expansion (which I was gone before JTL, so I wasn't included in that swindle).
Just because I've moved on game wise, doesn't mean I can't come in and toss a post up in support of those who are fighting the way SOE handled the situation.
Dude, 2005 called and said they want there post back. But seriously it was 2 years ago, and the game has more content now then ever. Sure it can be improved, what game doesn't? I just find it funny this sense of entitlement that some of you think you are owed. If the NGE is here a year from now, are all still going to be here posting and crying about PRE-CU, i bet you are, and its pathetic.
Dude, you created you an account extra for to call vets pathetic ?
Quick someone help me how such behavior can be called....
content ? does some vet asks for content right now ?? lol give me a break ..we asking for the superior game PRE CU offered ..on extra servers ...if they cannot offer this ..we ask for the entire NGE to be removed and replaced with the core elements of PRE CU ...lol
You be aware that you are a member of a small minorityy right now. You aware of that you need some luck for LA supporting you further and not settle on the majority who deny to waste their time with your so called MMO and pull the licence ?
Everyone except you see that you walking on thin ice ....lol
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
It is a good thing i played a ID/Tailor. And in that way neither CU or NGE affected me... The player leaving bit hurt biz abit... But that i blame partly on the part leaving... And while i consider the Old SWG to be a prime exaple of both how to and not to build a MMO i don't poke the flute dreaming of some lost city of gold comming back. If i was SOE i'd just issue alot of restrainging-orders 'casue stalking is not cool.
How about we take one last drink for the dead guy and then leave
This have been a good conversation
I'm still surprised people think its SoE's fault when its LA's. sure SoE had a hand in it, but frankly only LA could tell SoE what to do with SWG, not the other way around. LA ultimately gave the go-ahead.
Never was tailor myself but PRE CU offered great opportunities for tailors life..
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
aah don't have it right now , a quoted $OE developer saying something like following :
"We $OE planed and executed our plan by developing NGE. "
LA had only to approve it, and what you usual approve in business situations ? Short the plan the design, i am not sure if any LA official saw some working NGE in real time enviroment and on paper some stupid ideas looking awesome sometimes.
Who has done what in the end no one will know for sure. Especially if something fails all responsible lack of memory.....
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)