I hope they bring this with some fair PvE content too. Daoc had both, and in my view (even though i stopped playing it sevely yrs back) still holds the #1 spot for its PvP/RvR content.
Hopefully W.A.R will exceed that game in many ways as i for one wouldnt want to PvP only. It takes several aspects to make a good game, and it also breaks up the game play into sections of style too, depending on what you feel like doing that day.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: fuck PvE. There are countless MMOs that focus entirely upon PvE, so play them if you want PvE. Don't come here and muck up a game with your shite.
Shouldn't you be mad at Mythic then? They've obviously made a game that doesn't quite suit you then.
Or perhaps it's you then that you should be mad at for looking at a game that has a definite PvE focus as well as PvP
It's fairly obvious that PvP is the side they are focused upon. It is what will set them apart from other MMOs.
Anyway, why do people like PvE? What's the fun in facing an unintelligent enemy that will do the same thing over and over again? Why, just why?
Originally posted by Saekora Originally posted by Pheace Originally posted by Saekora I've said it before and I'll say it again: fuck PvE. There are countless MMOs that focus entirely upon PvE, so play them if you want PvE. Don't come here and muck up a game with your shite.
Shouldn't you be mad at Mythic then? They've obviously made a game that doesn't quite suit you then.
Or perhaps it's you then that you should be mad at for looking at a game that has a definite PvE focus as well as PvP It's fairly obvious that PvP is the side they are focused upon. It is what will set them apart from other MMOs.
Anyway, why do people like PvE? What's the fun in facing an unintelligent enemy that will do the same thing over and over again? Why, just why?
Well, that seems like a silly question...
The majority of video games are predicated on facing enemies possessing only artificial intelligence, from Pac-Man to Halo 3 and beyond. Somehow they manage to be popular, and very much so, at that.
Besides, your statement of what PvE is is rather glib. PvE is a lot more difficult than you make it out to be, and a lot more fun, provided the content is well designed. Millions of MMORPG players every day log on to raid, quest, etc., and like it just fine.
Anyway, I am looking forward to both PvE and RvR, in fairly equal parts. I do not think it is necessarily wise to turn one's nose up at one portion of the game in favour of another completely, since then you only get to enjoy a portion of the experience.
Simple is good. Can I play, from start to the end, in PvE-grouping/soloing only and miss nothing for PvE-mastery? No. Oky, thanks and have a good life.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
All the "copying" argument don't live up to the fact that WoW is Everquest with fluff.
WAR will be WoW with RVR, and that's very good, because WoW is an excellent game: it just gets boring at max level because raiding and faction-grinding are the only thing to do.
My addiction History: >> EQ1 2000-2004 - Shaman/Bard/Wizard/Monk - nolife raid-whore >> WoW 2004-2009 + Cataclysm for 2 months - hardcore casual >> Current status : done with MMO, too old for that crap.
But if you take out fetch/kill quests people will say you don't have enough content.
Of course we'd all love to see a game with better questing then kill/fetch but there are technical, financial, and also very human limitations involved. Of course we'd love to see "actual" quests... ones with plot, interaction, decision making, strategy... But is it possible? I hope that Bioware's MMO proves that it is possible.
If you put in good quests, people will not complain.
I am no fan of D&D Online, but that game has a lot of very good quests, and very few bad ones. True, they did cave to the solo masses by adding more of the lame quests as solo content, but those were actually just a workaround for the game's lack of open-world adventuring.
In a game that already has open-world adventuring, you don't need kill quests.
I know you might be tempted to argue that DDO's quest quality had a lot to do with instancing, and I concede that instancing can make it easier, but it's not the only way to handle it. There are enough well-designed quests in non-instanced games that I feel justified in my position on this.
For PvE, WoW represents just another example of the 'tried and true' system of fetch/kill/deliver quests. WoW did not create this system, but as the most successful MMORPG in history, it gets a lot of credit for it.
WAR wants to appeal to the mass market in this area, so why break tradition? It will offer an experience in PvE comparable to other leading MMOs, which will help draw people interested in PvE.
On the other hand, WAR plans to offer a PvP experience different from any other MMORPG (the closest comparable would likely be DAOC). I think their goal is to bridge the mass-market appeal of PvE with an elaborate and finally "complete" PvP aspect that will help elevate them to 'number 2' in the MMORPG gaming market.
A game does not have to be #1 to be successful by any means. I have high hopes for WAR and hope an emphasis on customization helps to differential it from the "stock" look of its cousin WoW.
A review based on a beta a year before the release? And he tells us nothing we already didn't know.
How the hell, does WoW have 10 mil subscribers but if a new game does something WoW is doing it’s bad? I just don’t f*cking get that.
So the quest system isn’t that good, I have news for you, it isn’t good in any MMO. The only way to make it good would be to have a dynamic story which players can influence base on their decisions. And does anyone know how hard this would be to pull off?
As long as the PVE is as good as WoW, hell, it could be an exact copy I'll be happy Quests + 5-person dungeons + 10 or more person raids Throw in Tome of Knowledge and Public Quests and I'll be a happy camper. What WoW doesn't have is good PvP. EA Mythic (especially now with keeps+open world RvR stuff) is going to nail PvP So as long as they do PvE as good (even if totally the same) as WoW but do PvP (RvR) as good as Mythic is known for.... This game will rock the socks and melt the faces.
Yeah thats pretty much how I feel.
The Guy didn't do any public quests. This seems odd.
For PvE, WoW represents just another example of the 'tried and true' system of fetch/kill/deliver quests. WoW did not create this system, but as the most successful MMORPG in history, it gets a lot of credit for it. WAR wants to appeal to the mass market in this area, so why break tradition? It will offer an experience in PvE comparable to other leading MMOs, which will help draw people interested in PvE. On the other hand, WAR plans to offer a PvP experience different from any other MMORPG (the closest comparable would likely be DAOC). I think their goal is to bridge the mass-market appeal of PvE with an elaborate and finally "complete" PvP aspect that will help elevate them to 'number 2' in the MMORPG gaming market. A game does not have to be #1 to be successful by any means. I have high hopes for WAR and hope an emphasis on customization helps to differential it from the "stock" look of its cousin WoW.
Like I mentioned before, the reviewer went in knowing NO information about the game at all.. His impressions of PVE yes do seem 'tried and true', however the quests themselfs are tried and true but the questing system behind it is like nothing we're used to, it's not common to kill a quest mob and STILL get rewarded for the kill even tho you never picked up the quest until you head back to find it..
This review is just skimming the serface of a much much deeper PVE system, plus this is only from a lvl 1 character? what are we expecting a 20-man raid on your first quest? that'll be funny considering you've only got 1/2 skills to play with .. (added the fact it seemed like he wanted to instapown mobs and is throwing a hissy fit due to the fact he died)..
Bottom lining it the questing systems in place in WAR some are nothing like we've seen before and players (like this reviewer) will judge it like it's 'same old same old' just from the quest itself, which is dissapointing.. as these quest systems seem to be a strong point of the game and personally I hope they benchmark themselfs as a new standard, if you still don't think it'll be true just goto the warhammeronline site and watch that quest podcast, NO MORE BEAR PAWS!
I think it's a little silly to sit here and bash the guy for his review. The fact is, he's played the game and I have not. I have to concede that maybe he knows something I don't. Regardless, like him, I'm taking a wait and see approach.
I will say this though. When I played LOTRO, the first feeling I got was that the game "felt" familiar...too familiar. No matter how hard I tried, I could not get past the feeling of been there, done that. In the end, I quit and moved on. I really hope that I don't get that same old feeling from WAR.
One poster above said something along the lines of if WoW does it, it's great, but if someone else does it like WoW, it's bad. I guess the point is that if I wanted to play something like WoW, I'd play WoW.
Bottom lining it the questing systems in place in WAR some are nothing like we've seen before and players (like this reviewer) will judge it like it's 'same old same old' just from the quest itself, which is dissapointing.. as these quest systems seem to be a strong point of the game and personally I hope they benchmark themselfs as a new standard, if you still don't think it'll be true just goto the warhammeronline site and watch that quest podcast, NO MORE BEAR PAWS!
As was said earlier, the game needs to be fun from the very first quest onwards, not after the 5th, 10th or 20th level. And if this game wants to succed then it will need to be fun to new/WoW players.
Bottom lining it the questing systems in place in WAR some are nothing like we've seen before and players (like this reviewer) will judge it like it's 'same old same old' just from the quest itself, which is dissapointing.. as these quest systems seem to be a strong point of the game and personally I hope they benchmark themselfs as a new standard, if you still don't think it'll be true just goto the warhammeronline site and watch that quest podcast, NO MORE BEAR PAWS!
As was said earlier, the game needs to be fun from the very first quest onwards, not after the 5th, 10th or 20th level. And if this game wants to succed then it will need to be fun to new/WoW players.
Thats what I'm getting at, the way the quest system is disigned IMO it is MUCH more fun then saying 'go kill bears mob until you have 10 bear paws' with the 'pre-questing' system (i havn't found a catchy name for it yet) it's not limiting you to killing bears, stunties, murlocks.. because thats what the quest says..
You CAN just go out into the field slaugter everything and then find a guy that says 'I want you to kill Stunties...' for example they turning about and saying 'but I see you've ready killed them for me, heres your reward!!'.. See THATS the whole twist of this system your NOT limited to just killing whats in your questlog, killing everything in sight can lead to many rewards not just doing what you've been told to do by an NPC.. Added in the factor that quest rewards AREN'T just from NPCs, they are thru exploration by the prize quests they are in your ToK, hell you can just go out and kill other players if you want..
Key thing is qith these systems in place it gives you a hell of a lot of FREEDOM in what to do, this IMO is far more fun then doing what we are doing now, like I said about three times now, the reviewer was attemping to play WAR like every other MMO out there and although it's possible to do that Mythic's idea in their system is NOT to, players aren't chained down into 'doing as they are told' so why are we still trying to?
I think it's a little silly to sit here and bash the guy for his review. The fact is, he's played the game and I have not. I have to concede that maybe he knows something I don't. Regardless, like him, I'm taking a wait and see approach. I will say this though. When I played LOTRO, the first feeling I got was that the game "felt" familiar...too familiar. No matter how hard I tried, I could not get past the feeling of been there, done that. In the end, I quit and moved on. I really hope that I don't get that same old feeling from WAR. One poster above said something along the lines of if WoW does it, it's great, but if someone else does it like WoW, it's bad. I guess the point is that if I wanted to play something like WoW, I'd play WoW.
Many like myself are disregrading the review as the reviewer went it blind with only a lvl 1 character and judged the whole game on the fact he died a lot and that the starter level quests objectives are standards, he to me at least sounds like he already made up his mind once he died that this beta version he played isn't as good as a release title.
Yes he's played the game, we have not.. however we know more then his assumtions, if the reviewer went back a third time will all the information about how he should be looking and treating the game perhaps he'd enjoy in more than thinking it's a 'standard' MMO, problem with that is thinking like that with any MMO, WoW/EQ will always be 'better' for most as they have benchmarked 'standard', you've gotta look at the differences in the games NOT whats the same. For WAR theres a whole lot of differences.
Not a bad article, about what I expected to hear. Revolutionary PVE in the early levels? I've yet to find a game that does that, not expecting this one to. No, I'll play WAR for one reason, excellent RVR combat. Anything else the game does right is just fluff to me. It will be nice to have a decent Dragon raid, but it won't kill me if we don't.
Actually......
One of the few good things I have to say about WoW is the fact that their early level quests rocked. I was running around Durotar at level 4 bashing sleeping peons in the head with a blackjack to get them back to work. Thats pretty dang innovative and funny for PvE if you ask me.
To address the flamers here...ummm...his review is pretty spot on. All he said was that the RvR owned and that the PvE was "expected" or "rehashed". If his first quests involved killing rats then nothing he said was wrong at all. He even made SURE to use a disclaimer about his playtime so you all DIDNT take his review too far.
Jesus, sometimes you fanboys just take a line and run with it before even considering what it MEANS. The man basically said he thought this was THE game that would win the #2 MMO slot. Why on Earth are you idiots complaining about his review????? Thats the best review an MMO could hope for. No one is gonna call a #1 MMO until they actually land the sales to compete.
Comments
I hope they bring this with some fair PvE content too. Daoc had both, and in my view (even though i stopped playing it sevely yrs back) still holds the #1 spot for its PvP/RvR content.
Hopefully W.A.R will exceed that game in many ways as i for one wouldnt want to PvP only. It takes several aspects to make a good game, and it also breaks up the game play into sections of style too, depending on what you feel like doing that day.
I'm really surprised he didn't mention public quests, cause that's what I spent half my PvE time doing.
Shouldn't you be mad at Mythic then? They've obviously made a game that doesn't quite suit you then.
Or perhaps it's you then that you should be mad at for looking at a game that has a definite PvE focus as well as PvP
It's fairly obvious that PvP is the side they are focused upon. It is what will set them apart from other MMOs.Anyway, why do people like PvE? What's the fun in facing an unintelligent enemy that will do the same thing over and over again? Why, just why?
Shouldn't you be mad at Mythic then? They've obviously made a game that doesn't quite suit you then.
Or perhaps it's you then that you should be mad at for looking at a game that has a definite PvE focus as well as PvP
It's fairly obvious that PvP is the side they are focused upon. It is what will set them apart from other MMOs.
Anyway, why do people like PvE? What's the fun in facing an unintelligent enemy that will do the same thing over and over again? Why, just why?
Well, that seems like a silly question...
The majority of video games are predicated on facing enemies possessing only artificial intelligence, from Pac-Man to Halo 3 and beyond. Somehow they manage to be popular, and very much so, at that.
Besides, your statement of what PvE is is rather glib. PvE is a lot more difficult than you make it out to be, and a lot more fun, provided the content is well designed. Millions of MMORPG players every day log on to raid, quest, etc., and like it just fine.
Anyway, I am looking forward to both PvE and RvR, in fairly equal parts. I do not think it is necessarily wise to turn one's nose up at one portion of the game in favour of another completely, since then you only get to enjoy a portion of the experience.
Long and complex.
Simple is good. Can I play, from start to the end, in PvE-grouping/soloing only and miss nothing for PvE-mastery? No. Oky, thanks and have a good life.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
WoW-PVE with DAOC-RVR? I play anyday...
All the "copying" argument don't live up to the fact that WoW is Everquest with fluff.
WAR will be WoW with RVR, and that's very good, because WoW is an excellent game: it just gets boring at max level because raiding and faction-grinding are the only thing to do.
My addiction History:
>> EQ1 2000-2004 - Shaman/Bard/Wizard/Monk - nolife raid-whore
>> WoW 2004-2009 + Cataclysm for 2 months - hardcore casual
>> Current status : done with MMO, too old for that crap.
I am no fan of D&D Online, but that game has a lot of very good quests, and very few bad ones. True, they did cave to the solo masses by adding more of the lame quests as solo content, but those were actually just a workaround for the game's lack of open-world adventuring.
In a game that already has open-world adventuring, you don't need kill quests.
I know you might be tempted to argue that DDO's quest quality had a lot to do with instancing, and I concede that instancing can make it easier, but it's not the only way to handle it. There are enough well-designed quests in non-instanced games that I feel justified in my position on this.
For PvE, WoW represents just another example of the 'tried and true' system of fetch/kill/deliver quests. WoW did not create this system, but as the most successful MMORPG in history, it gets a lot of credit for it.
WAR wants to appeal to the mass market in this area, so why break tradition? It will offer an experience in PvE comparable to other leading MMOs, which will help draw people interested in PvE.
On the other hand, WAR plans to offer a PvP experience different from any other MMORPG (the closest comparable would likely be DAOC). I think their goal is to bridge the mass-market appeal of PvE with an elaborate and finally "complete" PvP aspect that will help elevate them to 'number 2' in the MMORPG gaming market.
A game does not have to be #1 to be successful by any means. I have high hopes for WAR and hope an emphasis on customization helps to differential it from the "stock" look of its cousin WoW.
A review based on a beta a year before the release? And he tells us nothing we already didn't know.
How the hell, does WoW have 10 mil subscribers but if a new game does something WoW is doing it’s bad? I just don’t f*cking get that.
So the quest system isn’t that good, I have news for you, it isn’t good in any MMO. The only way to make it good would be to have a dynamic story which players can influence base on their decisions. And does anyone know how hard this would be to pull off?
I guese you got killed by the rat because you where spoiled how easy to play a game wow is.
Perhaps the quote 'L2P" is in order?
You're right.
I agree. Abandon ship.The Guy didn't do any public quests. This seems odd.
This review is just skimming the serface of a much much deeper PVE system, plus this is only from a lvl 1 character? what are we expecting a 20-man raid on your first quest? that'll be funny considering you've only got 1/2 skills to play with
.. (added the fact it seemed like he wanted to instapown mobs and is throwing a hissy fit due to the fact he died)..
Bottom lining it the questing systems in place in WAR some are nothing like we've seen before and players (like this reviewer) will judge it like it's 'same old same old' just from the quest itself, which is dissapointing.. as these quest systems seem to be a strong point of the game and personally I hope they benchmark themselfs as a new standard, if you still don't think it'll be true just goto the warhammeronline site and watch that quest podcast, NO MORE BEAR PAWS!
Bring on the WARRRRGGHH!
I think it's a little silly to sit here and bash the guy for his review. The fact is, he's played the game and I have not. I have to concede that maybe he knows something I don't. Regardless, like him, I'm taking a wait and see approach.
I will say this though. When I played LOTRO, the first feeling I got was that the game "felt" familiar...too familiar. No matter how hard I tried, I could not get past the feeling of been there, done that. In the end, I quit and moved on. I really hope that I don't get that same old feeling from WAR.
One poster above said something along the lines of if WoW does it, it's great, but if someone else does it like WoW, it's bad. I guess the point is that if I wanted to play something like WoW, I'd play WoW.
As was said earlier, the game needs to be fun from the very first quest onwards, not after the 5th, 10th or 20th level. And if this game wants to succed then it will need to be fun to new/WoW players.
As was said earlier, the game needs to be fun from the very first quest onwards, not after the 5th, 10th or 20th level. And if this game wants to succed then it will need to be fun to new/WoW players.
Thats what I'm getting at, the way the quest system is disigned IMO it is MUCH more fun then saying 'go kill bears mob until you have 10 bear paws' with the 'pre-questing' system (i havn't found a catchy name for it yet) it's not limiting you to killing bears, stunties, murlocks.. because thats what the quest says..
You CAN just go out into the field slaugter everything and then find a guy that says 'I want you to kill Stunties...' for example they turning about and saying 'but I see you've ready killed them for me, heres your reward!!'.. See THATS the whole twist of this system your NOT limited to just killing whats in your questlog, killing everything in sight can lead to many rewards not just doing what you've been told to do by an NPC.. Added in the factor that quest rewards AREN'T just from NPCs, they are thru exploration by the prize quests they are in your ToK, hell you can just go out and kill other players if you want..
Key thing is qith these systems in place it gives you a hell of a lot of FREEDOM in what to do, this IMO is far more fun then doing what we are doing now, like I said about three times now, the reviewer was attemping to play WAR like every other MMO out there and although it's possible to do that Mythic's idea in their system is NOT to, players aren't chained down into 'doing as they are told' so why are we still trying to?
Bring on the WARRRRGGHH!
Yes he's played the game, we have not.. however we know more then his assumtions, if the reviewer went back a third time will all the information about how he should be looking and treating the game perhaps he'd enjoy in more than thinking it's a 'standard' MMO, problem with that is thinking like that with any MMO, WoW/EQ will always be 'better' for most as they have benchmarked 'standard', you've gotta look at the differences in the games NOT whats the same. For WAR theres a whole lot of differences.
Bring on the WARRRRGGHH!
Actually......
One of the few good things I have to say about WoW is the fact that their early level quests rocked. I was running around Durotar at level 4 bashing sleeping peons in the head with a blackjack to get them back to work. Thats pretty dang innovative and funny for PvE if you ask me.
To address the flamers here...ummm...his review is pretty spot on. All he said was that the RvR owned and that the PvE was "expected" or "rehashed". If his first quests involved killing rats then nothing he said was wrong at all. He even made SURE to use a disclaimer about his playtime so you all DIDNT take his review too far.
Jesus, sometimes you fanboys just take a line and run with it before even considering what it MEANS. The man basically said he thought this was THE game that would win the #2 MMO slot. Why on Earth are you idiots complaining about his review????? Thats the best review an MMO could hope for. No one is gonna call a #1 MMO until they actually land the sales to compete.
EQ2 does PVE sooo much better than WOW.
Boom. Looks like wow the reviewer says. I wonder how many mmo's besides wow he's played.