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Will there be low-level PVP a few months after launch?
BattleFelon
Member UncommonPosts: 483
The other day I was talking with one of my friends who used to be a hardcore DAOC player. I asked if he was looking forward to WAR, and he said no. The reason - he believes that if WAR follows DAOC's lead, then it will all be about racing to top level for RVR. He predicts that within a few months of launch, the low and mid-level battlefields will be empty and everyone will be busy raiding each other's city zones. If you start late or are a slow-leveling casual player, good luck finding PVP until you hit max level.
I never played DAOC but my friend's prediction does trouble me a little. I'm a casual player who loves rolling alts, and I was looking forward to a system where supposedly even the low level PVP areas count towards world PVP. But maybe I'm deluding myself. Would love to hear other DAOC vets give their two cents.
Comments
I dont think this will be the case in WAR.
1. I believe WAR will have a greater number of players than DAoC ever had, which will be more evenly distributed across the various levels.
2. I think people will constantly roll alts in this game due to the number of classes.
3. There are only two factions in this game, not three like DAoC, so more people on your side and on the enemies side.
4. I think WAR will be less group oriented like DAoC was in the PVE aspect of the game, due to no raids and public quests.
Im sure there are more reasons but these are my thoughts atm.
Cheers!
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
People now tend to roll lots of alts. While I do see a downturn in the amount of low-end PvP I think there will be enough to keep people happy.
Wrong. I hope you have some insight in Warhammer Online RvR. Lets say that you and you mate only PvP in Tier four zone and try to raid city?. Well, then I will remake a alt character and start takening control of the lower tier controlled zones. Beside if a remember right you have to have locked all the lower tier zone before you can unlock city raid, but I am not complete sure on that matter. Warhammer Online kinda want you to creater alt character if you want to help to the war effort. War is everywhere.
Hmm, I'm thinking your friend is BSing you about playing DAOC hardcore. To this day (at least on the Classic Servers) there are 3 lower level battlegrounds that are full of players all the time. In fact, since you can turn off experience/leveling many folks keep permanent characters in these 3 BG's.
So don't worry, there's always purists who like playing PVP when characters don't have their full skill sets and will always be willing to battle in the lower levels.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Your friend is just rambling, check out the RvR explaination videos.
RvR Explaination
http://youtube.com/watch?v=eLM5JbgXnFY&feature=related
Recent RvR Changes
http://youtube.com/watch?v=O7z7OJQTmzM
...which brings me to a question (sorry for the hijack of this post, but it's related somehow)
Can you gain levels by just doing pvp?
Edit: I guess I have partially an answer to my question thanks to above movies...thanks
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The lower lvls won't contribute near as much as you would just playing Tier 4. You'd actually be hurting your side by re-rolling if that was your reason. Re-rolling for personal enjoyment is another story, but doing it thinking your going to impact the Tier 4 zone with a low lvl char. is just insane. In general, all effects from lower zones are pretty insignificant. They're there more to make newbs feel like they're contributing, which they are, just not very much.
Will there be as much low-lvl PvP after launch? No, of course not, but if the game succeeds there will be a steady population for lower tiers. It'll be it least a year before I think you'll see a noticeable difference in low tier pops. Also, a lot of people are no where close to hardcore, and it will take these people months to a year to lvl.
Really the only reason lower tier PvP will suffer is if the whole game sucks, and hopefully that won't happen. /crossesfingers
Did they mention something about the to gain levels while pvp-ing? Is it like completing pvp related quests? Or do we gain xp for killing someone in RvR zones? Or more like xp for completing objective (which counts for everyone)?
Can you back up you words with some proofs ?. Otherwise I don't thrust you words in you post.
Spoils of War - The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it.
You don't have to lock down the lower zones to take the capitol but when you do lock them down it does help your side.
2 scenarios:
- the game is good, people will roll alts and new people will constantly come into the game. So yes there will be low lvl PvP
- the game isn't good, the first batch of players will reach max lvl and low lvl pvp will be dead within 3 months.
But its obvious that at some point in time (and for MMO it comes pretty quick i think), new players will stop coming in, and low lvl pvp will naturally disappear.
My addiction History:
>> EQ1 2000-2004 - Shaman/Bard/Wizard/Monk - nolife raid-whore
>> WoW 2004-2009 + Cataclysm for 2 months - hardcore casual
>> Current status : done with MMO, too old for that crap.
With your insight, do you *seriously* think that a game is going to be succesful if, in the end when your character is maximized and the whole game still depends on what the lower levels do, which is totally outside of your control?
As far as I remember lower tiers going one way or the other just helps Tier 4 with the addition of points but in the end what happens in Tier 4 is the major swinger.
Hmm, I'm thinking your friend is BSing you about playing DAOC hardcore. To this day (at least on the Classic Servers) there are 3 lower level battlegrounds that are full of players all the time. In fact, since you can turn off experience/leveling many folks keep permanent characters in these 3 BG's.
So don't worry, there's always purists who like playing PVP when characters don't have their full skill sets and will always be willing to battle in the lower levels.
That turn off experience thing in DAoC, maybe that's also possible in WAR? Well, i'm going to send a question them right now to ask! xDTest? I did the same in DAOC with my Infiltrator so I don't see how it needs to be tested. The formula already exists and is proven to work.
Did they mention something about the to gain levels while pvp-ing? Is it like completing pvp related quests? Or do we gain xp for killing someone in RvR zones? Or more like xp for completing objective (which counts for everyone)?
You get for simply killing other players. There are also quests that require you to engage in pvp, so you would get the quest xp reward and the xp from any pvp kills.
I think a lot of people will be rolling alts as there are many good classes in WAR and tbh it is kind of hard to only pick one to play.
With your insight, do you *seriously* think that a game is going to be succesful if, in the end when your character is maximized and the whole game still depends on what the lower levels do, which is totally outside of your control?
As far as I remember lower tiers going one way or the other just helps Tier 4 with the addition of points but in the end what happens in Tier 4 is the major swinger.
If you have played DAoC you should know that many high level players created characters for the numerous lower level battlegrounds, especially Thidranki the 20-24 area. These players had no victory points that transfered over to higher tier battlegrounds, and still DAoC managed to keep these areas populated.
Now seeing that Mythic is creating Warhammer, chances are we will see the same results within WAR.
With your insight, do you *seriously* think that a game is going to be succesful if, in the end when your character is maximized and the whole game still depends on what the lower levels do, which is totally outside of your control?
As far as I remember lower tiers going one way or the other just helps Tier 4 with the addition of points but in the end what happens in Tier 4 is the major swinger.
If you have played DAoC you should know that many high level players created characters for the numerous lower level battlegrounds, especially Thidranki the 20-24 area. These players had no victory points that transfered over to higher tier battlegrounds, and still DAoC managed to keep these areas populated.
Now seeing that Mythic is creating Warhammer, chances are we will see the same results within WAR.
So that's a yes? You really think a game will be succesful if a maxed out char has to either sit there and wait for a lower tier to get taken in order to be able to progress or is forced to roll an alt to even be able to do something about it himself?
Well, it's wrong. If you win on lower tiers it give you extra victory points, nothing more nothing less. So even if the other faction took all lower tiers you can still win all in tier 4 and raid that city.
Don't troll and watch podcasts first.
I agree with Aczero that this is an important question.
In DAoC, some people really loved remaining at the lower levels and fighting in the Battlegrounds. The WAR equivalent to that would be Tiers 1 through 3.
While I don't believe the devs have answered whether or not an "XP toggle" will definitely be in or definitely be out of the game, I would think that many players would enjoy stopping the progress of some of their alts so that they could continue fighting in the lower Tiers.
I personally would not like to see the lower Tiers go empty of players, forcing an overcrowding of the final Tier -- Tier 4. That is the overall goal of RvR combat, but a lot of players -- to judge by DAoC gameplay -- truly enjoy the lower Tiers.
Hopefully, Mythic will recognize this and include the "XP toggle" so that players can halt progress at certain points in the character's career, if they so choose.
Edit:
The Feedback Form is active on the Warhammer Herald. I submitted a question about this topic.
Time will tell.
~ Ancient Membership ~
Instead of turning off XP they could also implement some sort of 'debuff' or scale system so if you needed to or wanted to fight in the lower tier systems it forces your stats to scale down to a reasonable percentage for that area (EQ2 had something like this but it was implemented poorly).
It would also keep the game from getting boring at high level if you could so go help your friends who are lower instead of having to wait for them.
But if they give us tons of character slots and an xp off button i'll probably definitly have a ton of alts to play at all tiers!
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
Well that debuff is a good idea, but how about the equipment? They all have tier 4 equipment... hmm... they need to have tier 1 tier 2 and tier 3 equipment also...
Well if it just does an over all scale down of Stats for the character I'd think it'd include adjusted stats due to gear so you dont have to change out your gear. That was the huge problem with EQ2's mentor system it scaled down your stats & it temporarily deleveled you so you couldn't wear your gear. I'm talkinga bout scaling down final adjusted stats with gear so you could keep all your stuff but your stats would be comparable to the Tier your on. Its not like They don't know what the max possible stats for someone of Tier 1, 2, 3 are.
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
Test? I did the same in DAOC with my Infiltrator so I don't see how it needs to be tested. The formula already exists and is proven to work.
I must have written this with too much serious face. I meant that many people plan to level up to 40 by only PVPing and skipping the content.
BTW, when DAOC first came out it was not possible to level up in PVP, (except on the Andred/Mordred servers) that was a feature that was added later to spice up the game. No way to tell if Mythic will include it in WAR. (unless there's a podcast on the subject, of course)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Test? I did the same in DAOC with my Infiltrator so I don't see how it needs to be tested. The formula already exists and is proven to work.
I must have written this with too much serious face. I meant that many people plan to level up to 40 by only PVPing and skipping the content.
BTW, when DAOC first came out it was not possible to level up in PVP, (except on the Andred/Mordred servers) that was a feature that was added later to spice up the game. No way to tell if Mythic will include it in WAR. (unless there's a podcast on the subject, of course)
I don't see why they would boast this and then not include it since they have already got the concept down. Yes they have said that you can PvP all the way through.
You are right they didn't add xp via Bgs until New Frontiers I believe, but I could be wrong. They know how to implement it though and I don't see it being very hard to balance. I don't remember how long it took for me to max through PvP, but it wasn't a long amount of time.. maybe a few weeks/month of PvP. I'm guessing it will be around this same amount of time since they said the casual would take around 3 to 4 months to max.