Well I apparently lied about not posting again, but I just had to say...
SHADDUP ABOUT WOW!
Great, 10 mil+ play it, I happen to have an account, don't play often but I still do play. Whooptey-friggin-doo.
WoW Is just like any other corporate game, engineered to the companies best to try and pull in people. Nothing to do with interesting game play, plot, graphics, or otherwise. It all just has to do with what their surveys say the numbnuts we call our society will like most.
To note...what % is 10 mil+ out of 6 bil+?
Drop the WoW crap, I have my opinion on it and y'all have your many different opinions. Let's not form lines and gripe about something inane.
This was simply to point out the stupidity in quoting things such as "5,000 people like their eggs with whole wheat toast!".
Amazing...that's 5,000 people happen to agree with, but that still doesn't mean it's the best combo out there. Point being, one can not even discern if what they have is fact based on demographic, because they may just love what they have because they haven't seen/done something else.
I may end up having some homebrewed biscuts and gravy with my eggs at a restaurant and change my mind. Because what I think is only my opinion and has no play on reality.
Getting a bit more coherent, quoting such things for reference to what is currently the biggest trends, most popular, and other such stupid crap this kind of quote is great for. But never do I want to see this kind of quote displayed next to the word "fact", because it is not in any way, shape, form, or function a fact.
As far as religion goes...being agnostic I have no clue how to take a religious debate seriously...
And I'm sometimes a bit of an ass.
EDIT: Forgot to add. Just because no one is around to tell you your opinion is wrong, doesn't mean you are right.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Not gonna post again in this thread, just wanted to put a clarification out about something many people seem to think makes something fact.
10,000 people can be wrong, and frequently are. 100,000 people can be wrong, and frequently are. 1,000,000 people can be wrong, and frequently are. 10,000,000 people can be wrong, and frequently are.
You get the picture. Many people can believe many things, that's what's great about the world. At the same time you have to consider that in any given situation there is really only one thing that will be able to stand as true and likely is very far from what most people are debating about.
When saying that a large number of people think the same thing as you, please remember that it means only one thing. You all have the same OPINION. Nothing more or less. It is not a fact based on sheer numbers. It is simply a matter of preference. That doesn't mean that opinion is the right one (unless it's a matter of what the majority likes), and likely means it has absolutely nothing do do with good tastes or facts.
hmm.... Deivos, I'm not wanting to pick at you or anything, but I think I disagree with you some. (?)
Your statements about X number of people can be 'wrong' etc. What is 'wrong'? For you to lay down a judgement that someone else is 'wrong' is just one more 'opinion'. You could then counter that you 'know' you are right and the other opinion is wrong, but then we are into epistimology issues... how do you, or anyone else for that matter, know anything at all?
How do you 'know' that you are not a brain in a vat (ala the matrix)? You are conscious of your existence, but outside of that, you (along with everyone else) don't really 'know' anything. Even our science and technology is just us reasoning about the sensory input we are receiving... do we absolutely know that it's not just wires hooked up to our brains that are floating in this big giant tub of goo?
And I also question your distinction between 'right' and 'wrong'. Why is there even such a thing as right or wrong? Is it possible for there to be multiple truths? Is it possible for two people to have exact opposite opinions and yet both be right or correct?
But I read your stuff again, and maybe I'm not disagreeing with you at all? I think it's your last paragraph that sounds wrong to me....
You make a distinction between fact and opinion, and I would say they are the same thing, particularly in regard to the subjective appraisal of games / features etc that this forum / website is about...
I don't see the point in discriminating fact from opinion on this site. Very few arguments about MMO's are over facts. ...Plus the only people who can provide absolute truths in the universe are Mathematics professors.
even math is based on our ability to comprehend the abstracts that represent the concretes, if our comprehension is fundamently changed then what?
Not gonna post again in this thread, just wanted to put a clarification out about something many people seem to think makes something fact.
10,000 people can be wrong, and frequently are. 100,000 people can be wrong, and frequently are. 1,000,000 people can be wrong, and frequently are. 10,000,000 people can be wrong, and frequently are.
You get the picture. Many people can believe many things, that's what's great about the world. At the same time you have to consider that in any given situation there is really only one thing that will be able to stand as true and likely is very far from what most people are debating about.
When saying that a large number of people think the same thing as you,please remember that it means only one thing.You all have the same OPINION. Nothing more or less. It is not a fact based on sheer numbers. It is simply a matter of preference. That doesn't mean that opinion is the right one (unless it's a matter of what the majority likes), and likely means it has absolutely nothing do do with good tastes or facts.
You are wrong.
There is such a thing as a wrong opinion.
In a maths class, the answer is not garnered by taking a vote amongst the pupils. The answer is empiric. Your opinion is irrelevant.
While it may be true to say that 10,000,000 can be wrong and frequently are, it is more true to say 10,000,000 can't be wrong and frequently aren't.
Good taste on the other hand isdefined by personal preference. The more people that like it, the better taste it is held to be in. Your opinion weighs on this, but it does not define it.
That, in your opinion, something is in good taste; although it is your honest opinion and your opinion is as equally relevant as any other individuals, does not make it so.
Otherwise no one would ever get offended by anything another person said or did. This patently is not the case.
Good/bad taste is defined by the peer group as a whole. Any single opinion is not as equally valid as the overall opinion of the entire data set. As Dr Spock once put it, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Judgement is ascertained from the overall perspective of opinons and by no means invalidated by the contradiction of any single individual.
Similarly, qualitative decisions are also subjective. So if you deem something to be of poor quality but the other 10,000,000 users do not, you are wrong.
Your opinion is yours alone, taken out of perspective of the opinion of others it is irrelevant. It has no meaning. It is perfectly normal for people to hold wrong opinions. Your opinon is not necessarily of equal importance or merit to the opinion of others.Your opinion isn't correct simply because everyone can have one.
Quantative numbers allow us to apply perspective to an otherwise subjective opinion. Quality is empiric, it can be measured. Opinion can be measured to. Just because in your opinion something is in poor taste or of low quality, does not make it so.
Because the majority hold an opposite opinion to you, that does not reinforce your opinion; is reason for you to seriously re-evaluate your position. Peer review is an important aid to learning.
All men are created equal is a valuable political philosohopy in many societies. This does not extend to their opinions. The opinion of a fool is not of equal standing to the opinion of a genius. The opinion of a minority does not hold the same weight as the opinions of a majority. The greater the disparity between the majority and the minority, themore likelyit is that the minority opinion is incorrect.
So when, it is your opinion that World of Warcraft is a boring or low quality game, you are wrong. Plain and simple. Empirically wrong.
It's still your personal opinion, no one can take that away from you. But it is a wrong opinion, and when you come out with it in the face of so much conclusive evidence to the contrary, you will be judged as a fool by your peers. Your opinion will be dismissed out of hand.
Facts are established by the production of evidence. When 10,000,000 say something is enjoyable or in good taste or of high quality, you have been presented with qualitative and quantifiable evidence. It becomes more than opinon,it becomes fact.
Not gonna post again in this thread, just wanted to put a clarification out about something many people seem to think makes something fact.
10,000 people can be wrong, and frequently are. 100,000 people can be wrong, and frequently are. 1,000,000 people can be wrong, and frequently are. 10,000,000 people can be wrong, and frequently are.
You get the picture. Many people can believe many things, that's what's great about the world. At the same time you have to consider that in any given situation there is really only one thing that will be able to stand as true and likely is very far from what most people are debating about.
When saying that a large number of people think the same thing as you,please remember that it means only one thing.You all have the same OPINION. Nothing more or less. It is not a fact based on sheer numbers. It is simply a matter of preference. That doesn't mean that opinion is the right one (unless it's a matter of what the majority likes), and likely means it has absolutely nothing do do with good tastes or facts.
You are wrong.
There is such a thing as a wrong opinion.
In a maths class, the answer is not garnered by taking a vote amongst the pupils. The answer is empiric. Your opinion is irrelevant.
While it may be true to say that 10,000,000 can be wrong and frequently are, it is more true to say 10,000,000 can't be wrong and frequently aren't.
Good taste on the other hand isdefined by personal preference. The more people that like it, the better taste it is held to be in. Your opinion weighs on this, but it does not define it.
Similarly, qualitative decisions are also subjective. So if you deem something to be of poor quality but the other 10,000,000 users do not, you are wrong.
Quantative numbers allow us to apply perspective to an otherwise subjective opinion. Quality is empiric, it can be measured. Just because in your opinion something is in poor taste or of low quality, does not make it so.
Because the majority hold an opposite opinion to you, that does not reinforce your opinion, is reason for you to seriously re-evaluate your position.
All men are created equal is a valuable political philosohopy in many societies. This does not extend to their opinions. The opinion of a fool is not of equal standing to the opinion of a genius. The opinion of a minority does not hold the same weight as the opinions of a majority. The greater the disparity between the majority and the minority, themore likelyit is that the minority opinion is incorrect.
So when, it is your opinion that World of Warcraft is a boring or low quality game, you are wrong. Plain and simple. Empirically wrong.
It's still your personal opinion, no one can take that away from you. But it is a wrong opinion, and when you come out with it in the face of so much conclusive evidence to the contrary, you will be judged as a fool by your peers. Your opinion will be dismissed out of hand.
Facts are established by the production of evidence. When 10,000,000 say something is enjoyable or in good taste or of high quality, you have been presented with qualitative and quantifiable evidence. It becomes more than opinon,it becomes fact.
Actually, there is no right and wrong when it comes to opinion. What you are saying is only regarding to the majority (the idea of norm) vs the minority (the exception), which doesn't involve right or wrong.
You can state that statistically there are more players who prefer WoW's game style, as they are the majority. For those who doesn't like WoW in anyway, they are what's called the minority, and even so, their opinion matters. Since for even game developers, they need to know why there are people who doesn't like their game. So they can taken into account what kind of players like their game and what kind of players do not like their game. This way they can make the choice to either 1) continue to focus on the group of players they have now (the majority), and satisfy them with their game, or 2) try to change their approach and include designs that would attract the ones who dislike their game (the minority).
The only math that I understand that uses empirical data is statistic. And in statistic, especially in this case, the opinion of a population, it doesn't contain right or wrong, but true or false.
So what is True: the majority of players like to play WoW for what it is to them - a quality game.
What is also True: there are a minority of players who dislike WoW for various reasons.
So it is false to say that there are more people who dislike WoW, and it's false to say that WoW players is in the minority. But that's all the data offers in conclusive answer, it doesn't offer a right or wrong.
EDIT: Facts have proofs, yes. But in this case, what is the fact? The fact is as stated above - There are more players who prefer WoW. This is also a fact - There are groups of gamers, although is the minority, who dislike WoW. Both fact are TRUE, and none are wrong...
Game developers do not need to pay any attention to fools. They would be wrong to do so.
I agree that the dev's have much to learn from user feedback. But if .0001% says what they are doing is in poor taste and 99.999% says it is in good taste. The .0001% are wrong.
Their opinion is wrong. Good taste is defined by the opinions of the majority.
The opinons of one person is not of equal validity or importance to the opinions of 10,000,000 people. It must be taken in perspective.
If a player dislikes WoW. That is his preference, not his opinion.
If a player who dislikes WoW, dislikes it because it is a bad game, that is his opinion.
Nice quote to Descarte! ^_^ Point to be made there then is that the only thing you have to base reality on then is what you perceive, in which case what you know to be true would actually be fact in a really weird way.
And Baff...you have some weird ways of thinking. o.0
If that was a quote from your professor you can tell him this.
a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2.
a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.
3.
the formal expression of a professional judgment: to ask for a second medical opinion.
4.
Law. the formal statement by a judge or court of the reasoning and the principles of law used in reaching a decision of a case.
5.
a judgment or estimate of a person or thing with respect to character, merit, etc.: to forfeit someone's good opinion.
6.
a favorable estimate; esteem: I haven't much of an opinion of him.
Opinion, is in fact, a persona point of view and actually does have nothing to do with fact. That doesn't mean they can't occasionally coincide. What you just said there though is an attempt at redefining what an opinion is however.
And realistically, 10,000,000 can be wrong or 10,000,000 can't is in all likely hood on close if not even grounds. Not to mention when did I say that there wasn't such a thing as a wrong opinion?
I might actually agree with you more if it weren't for the fact that we are talking of people, something math can't always seem to grasp. When people decide they like something or place a value on something, remember, on a scale of 1-10, 5 doesn't mean the same thing to everyone. In a numerical sense sure, in the "half-full or half-empty" way, you end up having many deeper and very subjective variables that are unaccounted for.
We actually seem to agree on quite a few things after reading your post, which kind of depresses me to say that I think you entirely missed the point.
Also i said this had nothing do do with WoW, not to mention I don't think I ever mentioned WoW in my first post... whay are you people wound up over a god damn game? You do know I am probably in the greatest majority of people who look at y'all and just ask each other "who cares?"...We're not about to go on a rant about how the game is good or bad, because that's for the other person to decide.
Getting back to your logic though, it kinda seems to assume that someone has to be wrong and not that we're all fully capable of being wrong. Which is probably the greatest flaw. As I said in my last post, what we know as our opinions is easily subject to change given access and willingness to accept new information.
Also..."Facts are established by the production of evidence. When 10,000,000 say something is enjoyable or in good taste or of high quality, you have been presented with qualitative and quantifiable evidence. It becomes more than opinon,it becomes fact."
That remark is entirely non sequitor. When 10,000,000 people have the same opinion, it may be takes as an assumed public truth, but it is not a fact. In no way is it an absolute and it is very prone to change, otherwise we would have the same facts about technology we had when the greeks had bronze...
I can agree that if something as subjective as what people likes is quoted from the majority it can be a fact of it's time. But that has absolutely nothing to do with the actual quality of something, how flawed it is, or otherwise.
EDIT: And your last remark still missed the fact that that %.0001 could know something the others don't and therefore actually be correct where the others aren't aware, thus being perfectly happy settling for something sub-par because they don't know any better.
AND STOP TALKING ABOUT WoW! This isn't about WoW!
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Your likes and dislike are whatever you say they are. The are empirically defined by your personal opinion.
Again good taste is defined by public opinion, so when 10,000,000 hold the opinion that something is in good or bad taste, you have been provided with an unignorable amount of evidence.
Facts are evidence based assumptions. This is not be confused with empirical truths which is the subject of religion. Ask Mulder if you are searching for the truth.
Quailty is empiric. It can be measured in any number of ways, including taking a cross section of opinions (peer review). Quality is not defined by personal opinion. It is a scientific measurement.
It is perfectly possible for a person to hold an opinion about the quality of an object and for that opinion to be wrong.
My comment about the 0.001 does not miss that point that in questions of empiric science, the 0.001% can be correct and the 99.999% incorrect. Galileo said the world wasn't flat.
You seem unable to grasp the concept of good and bad taste as opposed to personal preference. Good and bad taste are defined by the opinions of the peer group. If 99% say something is of good taste, then it is of good taste. the 1% are automatically wrong every time. They can never be right.
Tasteless people exist. People offend other people everyday. Just because you persoanlly believe something to be in good taste doesn't make it so. It is a group decision not an individual one.
Any who, fact is even if you like something because "it is good" or hate it because "it is bad", that is not the end of it. You have to think it is good or think it is bad for reasons, reasons that obviously people all don't agree on.
And if you want to take it at a solid numerical point of view might I reiderate....6 BILLION PEOPLE....only 10MILLION subscribers....
Obviously there are many more people the world over that don't share the interest or belief that WoW is a good game to play.
Not to be a hypocrite for referencing WoW, but realistically you can say that about every single game or elsewhile thing we like or dislike.
"Good taste" is entirely dependent on individual experience. As I said, you aren't taking into account that the few that don't think it's good could in fact know something everyone else doesn't, which means their opinion is closer to truth. Perhaps they have tried something better the others simply haven't.
All a majority agreement proves is that the majority agrees, not that what they think is the best.
By the way, by what my dictionary says. Facts are unwavering knowns one can observe about reality. Truths are the state or character of being true.
What you are saying holds more to do with truths than anything else. People like something for a time, and eventually they like something else. If you haven't noticed the perceived quality of games decreases as they get older and forgotten while new games are touted heavily. The perceived quality of things is entirely based on truths, because it's entirely dependent upon the time and relevance.
EDIT: If you are talking about good taste in the sense of what is culturally acceptable, which is the only thing I can think of that would pass as an absolute based on majority, that still isn't a solid concept as it's still completely subject to that culture and inevitable change over time due to it not being in any way based on fact and entirely based on the majorities preferences and experiences.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
I use the Oxford dictionary as a personal preference.
It doesn't matter what you know that other people don't. Good taste is not something you are able to define on your own. It is defined by the opinions of a peer group and not by the "knowledge" of any specific individual.
Learn it, or have social issues.
Facts are evidence based. 10 million subs is evidence that many people liked WoW enough to pay for it.
This is quantifiable evidence. Fact.
If you wish to ignore this, you will be dismissed as a fool. Not much I can do about this really.
Oh here's a really good question then in regards to "good taste". The tax classes.
Most people fall under the middle class. This tends to be the "majority" and where majority opinions come from. whereas people like me who would be considered upper class seem to have differing preferences from the middle class, they are not opinions that are cast aside as if it was useless, and instead quite frequently embraced because the middle class seeks to at least "live" like the upper class if not able to achieve becoming upper class. Lower class people's opinions are frequently disregarded though.
Why do I point this out? Because the numbers in this regards breaks down. You have a majority that actually is being lead in their ideas of what is "right" and in "good taste" by what in actuality is a minority. But the middle class is wholly willing to follow us because we have the money and the life they think is ideal, making whatever we do, the right decision.
I enjoy a rather insulated life from problems most might consider daily issues. Hell I just paid off my last $535 speeding ticket out of my birthday money. :P I can be as big of a rebel as I want because I can afford it, and people actually idolize me because of it. What is that if not the minority dictating the majority?
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Vietnam war. Every American thought that the war was going great and that our military was winning over there. President Johnson promised that if he got re-elected that he would continue the bombardment until the vietnamese surrendered.
Turns out, every single American was wrong. Walter Cronkite, famous news anchor, went to Vietnam and found out that it was basically a bloody stalemate between the two forces. Johnson lost the election due to this.
This is just one example of millions upon millions of people being wrong.
Shooting foxes is considered be in very poor taste. And yet I have my reasons.
I know I am right to do so, but I don't bother singing about it down the pub or at dinner parties. No one wants to shoot foxes with me. It's bad taste.
I don't have to like that's it bad taste to kill. That's just how it is.
You don't have to like that WoW is a great game. It still is.
Somethings in life just aren't your decisions to make. Get used to it.
P.S. you paying speeding fines is an example of you the minority being dictated to by the majority. Happens to us all. Try not paying your fines.
Nice story about the Vietnam War, allow me to counter it with a story of my own.
Every morning millions of people think the sun will rise. Every morning it does.
I hate to break your imaginary world you guys live in. However, in reference to WoW's subscriber base (to which I believe your referring this entire thread to, 6million people etc) these are not "people" you are so referring to.
Blizzard officially stated their game's population are generally children who have their parents foot the bill for WoW. I think roughly 80ish percentage of the player base for WoW were projected as children around the world whom have their parents pay for the game or use their allowances to buy GTC's to play (the funny part is blizzard counts GTC's, or game time cards, as subscriptions to boost their number even further).
I'm sorry to say but every time some WoW fanboi or Fangrrl brings up threads about how "awesome" WoW is and no one can argue with the subscriber counts. When, in reality, theres nothing to fight. It's nothing but children that support this game and it's EZ-Mode playstyle. Even the whole special that was done on Massive Multiplayer games even had very famous people in the MMO industry saying how EZ-mode WoW is, to Blizzards great success.
Stop making threads about how "Great" WoW is, because in the end it really isn't. The rest of us just view WoW as the pre-school version of an MMO. I for one can't wait for the new serious MMO's to come out soon .
-MMO player for 9yrs
-DraGa
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity: Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
Shooting foxes is considered, only because the numbers. :P
From a purely logical and factual standpoint though no one is right as long as they say they are right or wrong for doing so. Only because they aren't obviously remembering that even if we stop hunting them and even go so far as to feed tham our babies, they will still eventually be wiped out in one of the many creative ways we have coming to us.
I'm not talking about in the next 10-20-100,000 years, but ya gotta admit that it's inevitable.
Also here's a wonderful story too that happens every day.
Many people wish that many things could be better. They don't get better. We still have poverty, rape, violence, wars, drugs, assholes sitting in the car next to you, corporate/government/religious dealings that screw over many people without them knowing. But, hey, that's life, eh? My dad votes for Bush so he can get more money, my mom votes for Gore because she loves plants, I third party because it doesn't really matter and i get to vote for weird political parties like the Nazi political party. Big Friggin' Deal.
Now enough about inane life stories.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
I hate to break your imaginary world you guys live in. However, in reference to WoW's subscriber base (to which I believe your referring this entire thread to, 6million people etc) these are not "people" you are so referring to. Blizzard officially stated their game's population are generally children who have their parents foot the bill for WoW. I think roughly 80ish percentage of the player base for WoW were projected as children around the world whom have their parents pay for the game or use their allowances to buy GTC's to play (the funny part is blizzard counts GTC's, or game time cards, as subscriptions to boost their number even further). I'm sorry to say but every time some WoW fanboi or Fangrrl brings up threads about how "awesome" WoW is and no one can argue with the subscriber counts. When, in reality, theres nothing to fight. It's nothing but children that support this game and it's EZ-Mode playstyle. Even the whole special that was done on Massive Multiplayer games even had very famous people in the MMO industry saying how EZ-mode WoW is, to Blizzards great success. Stop making threads about how "Great" WoW is, because in the end it really isn't. The rest of us just view WoW as the pre-school version of an MMO. I for one can't wait for the new serious MMO's to come out soon .
-MMO player for 9yrs -DraGa
NINE YEARS?! Really?!
Not to be an ass but please read the several times now where I have told people this has nothing to do with WoW and to shut up about the game.
It is in fact people like you that keep people talking about it, by bringing it up when, like in my OP, there is noting to do with WoW present and you just assume it does somehow...
To any future posters, if you say this thread has to do with WoW, I will regard you as illiterate or an idiot as I am right to do so because you obviously can't read!
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
I hate to break your imaginary world you guys live in. However, in reference to WoW's subscriber base (to which I believe your referring this entire thread to, 6million people etc) these are not "people" you are so referring to. Blizzard officially stated their game's population are generally children who have their parents foot the bill for WoW. I think roughly 80ish percentage of the player base for WoW were projected as children around the world whom have their parents pay for the game or use their allowances to buy GTC's to play (the funny part is blizzard counts GTC's, or game time cards, as subscriptions to boost their number even further). I'm sorry to say but every time some WoW fanboi or Fangrrl brings up threads about how "awesome" WoW is and no one can argue with the subscriber counts. When, in reality, theres nothing to fight. It's nothing but children that support this game and it's EZ-Mode playstyle. Even the whole special that was done on Massive Multiplayer games even had very famous people in the MMO industry saying how EZ-mode WoW is, to Blizzards great success. Stop making threads about how "Great" WoW is, because in the end it really isn't. The rest of us just view WoW as the pre-school version of an MMO. I for one can't wait for the new serious MMO's to come out soon .
-MMO player for 9yrs -DraGa
NINE YEARS?! Really?!
Not to be an ass but please read the several times now where I have told people this has nothing to do with WoW and to shut up about the game.
It is in fact people like you that keep people talking about it, by bringing it up when, like in my OP, there is noting to do with WoW present and you just assume it does somehow...
To any future posters, if you say this thread has to do with WoW, I will regard you as illiterate or an idiot as I am right to do so because you obviously can't read!
Eh? This is SOOOO a WoW thread :P. OR.....maybe my sarcasm is that post didn't come out at all. Though, I've got my dorm buddies laughing their asses off reading what I wrote because they apparently got "it".
Honestly, what the hell were you talking about origionally.........none of us ever got it? I even posted a link to our ventrilo where several others were like "huh?...is this related to wow or what?".
PLEASE clarify your arguement or have it forever be looked upon as another WoWissoawsomemypantscantstayon thread.
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity: Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
I hate to break your imaginary world you guys live in. However, in reference to WoW's subscriber base (to which I believe your referring this entire thread to, 6million people etc) these are not "people" you are so referring to. Blizzard officially stated their game's population are generally children who have their parents foot the bill for WoW. I think roughly 80ish percentage of the player base for WoW were projected as children around the world whom have their parents pay for the game or use their allowances to buy GTC's to play (the funny part is blizzard counts GTC's, or game time cards, as subscriptions to boost their number even further). I'm sorry to say but every time some WoW fanboi or Fangrrl brings up threads about how "awesome" WoW is and no one can argue with the subscriber counts. When, in reality, theres nothing to fight. It's nothing but children that support this game and it's EZ-Mode playstyle. Even the whole special that was done on Massive Multiplayer games even had very famous people in the MMO industry saying how EZ-mode WoW is, to Blizzards great success. Stop making threads about how "Great" WoW is, because in the end it really isn't. The rest of us just view WoW as the pre-school version of an MMO. I for one can't wait for the new serious MMO's to come out soon .
-MMO player for 9yrs -DraGa
Blizzard officially stated that the average player age for WoW is 28.
We're all eagerly anticipating new and exciting MMO's.
...it's a what? ...I was arguing that large numbers of people doesn't equate to something being good/bad or otherwise. If anything that means I don't give a crap about WoW...
And to note: Sarcasm is quite frequently lost when translated to text. Also I have stated in almost every thread after my first post that I did not intend this at all to be about WoW. It is actually rather annoying that WoW seems to be the only thing on people's minds when they start reading things like this, I fail almost entirely in making the link between what I said and how it relates to WoW. :P
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
I hate to break your imaginary world you guys live in. However, in reference to WoW's subscriber base (to which I believe your referring this entire thread to, 6million people etc) these are not "people" you are so referring to. Blizzard officially stated their game's population are generally children who have their parents foot the bill for WoW. I think roughly 80ish percentage of the player base for WoW were projected as children around the world whom have their parents pay for the game or use their allowances to buy GTC's to play (the funny part is blizzard counts GTC's, or game time cards, as subscriptions to boost their number even further). I'm sorry to say but every time some WoW fanboi or Fangrrl brings up threads about how "awesome" WoW is and no one can argue with the subscriber counts. When, in reality, theres nothing to fight. It's nothing but children that support this game and it's EZ-Mode playstyle. Even the whole special that was done on Massive Multiplayer games even had very famous people in the MMO industry saying how EZ-mode WoW is, to Blizzards great success. Stop making threads about how "Great" WoW is, because in the end it really isn't. The rest of us just view WoW as the pre-school version of an MMO. I for one can't wait for the new serious MMO's to come out soon .
-MMO player for 9yrs -DraGa
Blizzard officially stated that the average player age for WoW is 28.
We're all eagerly anticipating new and exciting MMO's.
Like it or not, WoW is a great game.
Purely opinion I suppose. However, I don't believe blizzard whatsoever on that (28) thing. The first time I tried WoW's trial I was invited onto a giant guild's teamspeak. Whom was filled with nothing but around 19 kids below the age of 15 and two adults in there at the time. Upon conversing with the only two individuals above the age of 18, they stated it's normally like this and raids can be difficult because of all the childish and immature antics.
I dropped the game like it was hot ( ) after that. Since then, I've heard nothing but problems with WoW being the grindaholic, Ez-mode, immature riddled kids, gaming enviroment that it is from kids and a few adults in EBgames and Walmart. The age levels in WoW are also a very big conversation topic at my college since we only have two professors who play it in computer classes.
I despise WoW because I despise kids and their attitudes in games, because since its over the internet they talk bigger than if you were actually in the same room with them. Respect goes a long way towards others.
I really won't go into the gameplay of WoW and why I detest that part more, simply because it's been stated this is not a WoW thread....so err....yea xD!
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity: Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
95% of people believing in a supreme being? I don't think so. I've met nearly as many athiests of i have any other religious person.
Its a well known fact, only about 5% dont believe in any god, and think we evolve through evolution.
But it deviate from OP his topic, i dont care if 10million say wow is good, and then say others who think other wise are wrong, difference between me and others is, wow is badgame for me, but i can understand 10milllion think other wise.
Again i have right to say what i want about this matter, freedom of speech.
Have fun playing wow np for me, im gonne play a much better game:)
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77 CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now)) MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB PSU:Corsair AX1200i OS:Windows 10 64bit
And Asamof...then why the hells did you even bother to post? It's a friggin' sig, that's all...you can ignore it, you can choose not to click on it, you have all kinds of choices for things to not do with the sig, so why worry about a stupid sig? Kinda ignorant to dwell on something so pointless as a picture with a link to an inane quiz...
Now then...has everyone been able to grasp the "shut up about WoW" now? For that matter let's not pin it to any game or thing in particular.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Comments
95% of people believing in a supreme being? I don't think so. I've met nearly as many athiests of i have any other religious person.
Well I apparently lied about not posting again, but I just had to say...
SHADDUP ABOUT WOW!
Great, 10 mil+ play it, I happen to have an account, don't play often but I still do play. Whooptey-friggin-doo.
WoW Is just like any other corporate game, engineered to the companies best to try and pull in people. Nothing to do with interesting game play, plot, graphics, or otherwise. It all just has to do with what their surveys say the numbnuts we call our society will like most.
To note...what % is 10 mil+ out of 6 bil+?
Drop the WoW crap, I have my opinion on it and y'all have your many different opinions. Let's not form lines and gripe about something inane.
This was simply to point out the stupidity in quoting things such as "5,000 people like their eggs with whole wheat toast!".
Amazing...that's 5,000 people happen to agree with, but that still doesn't mean it's the best combo out there. Point being, one can not even discern if what they have is fact based on demographic, because they may just love what they have because they haven't seen/done something else.
I may end up having some homebrewed biscuts and gravy with my eggs at a restaurant and change my mind. Because what I think is only my opinion and has no play on reality.
Getting a bit more coherent, quoting such things for reference to what is currently the biggest trends, most popular, and other such stupid crap this kind of quote is great for. But never do I want to see this kind of quote displayed next to the word "fact", because it is not in any way, shape, form, or function a fact.
As far as religion goes...being agnostic I have no clue how to take a religious debate seriously...
And I'm sometimes a bit of an ass.
EDIT: Forgot to add. Just because no one is around to tell you your opinion is wrong, doesn't mean you are right.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
hmm.... Deivos, I'm not wanting to pick at you or anything, but I think I disagree with you some. (?)
Your statements about X number of people can be 'wrong' etc. What is 'wrong'? For you to lay down a judgement that someone else is 'wrong' is just one more 'opinion'. You could then counter that you 'know' you are right and the other opinion is wrong, but then we are into epistimology issues... how do you, or anyone else for that matter, know anything at all?
How do you 'know' that you are not a brain in a vat (ala the matrix)? You are conscious of your existence, but outside of that, you (along with everyone else) don't really 'know' anything. Even our science and technology is just us reasoning about the sensory input we are receiving... do we absolutely know that it's not just wires hooked up to our brains that are floating in this big giant tub of goo?
And I also question your distinction between 'right' and 'wrong'. Why is there even such a thing as right or wrong? Is it possible for there to be multiple truths? Is it possible for two people to have exact opposite opinions and yet both be right or correct?
But I read your stuff again, and maybe I'm not disagreeing with you at all? I think it's your last paragraph that sounds wrong to me....
You make a distinction between fact and opinion, and I would say they are the same thing, particularly in regard to the subjective appraisal of games / features etc that this forum / website is about...
even math is based on our ability to comprehend the abstracts that represent the concretes, if our comprehension is fundamently changed then what?
... - ..-. ..-
You are wrong.
There is such a thing as a wrong opinion.
In a maths class, the answer is not garnered by taking a vote amongst the pupils. The answer is empiric. Your opinion is irrelevant.
While it may be true to say that 10,000,000 can be wrong and frequently are, it is more true to say 10,000,000 can't be wrong and frequently aren't.
Good taste on the other hand is defined by personal preference. The more people that like it, the better taste it is held to be in. Your opinion weighs on this, but it does not define it.
That, in your opinion, something is in good taste; although it is your honest opinion and your opinion is as equally relevant as any other individuals, does not make it so.
Otherwise no one would ever get offended by anything another person said or did. This patently is not the case.
Good/bad taste is defined by the peer group as a whole. Any single opinion is not as equally valid as the overall opinion of the entire data set. As Dr Spock once put it, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Judgement is ascertained from the overall perspective of opinons and by no means invalidated by the contradiction of any single individual.
Similarly, qualitative decisions are also subjective. So if you deem something to be of poor quality but the other 10,000,000 users do not, you are wrong.
Your opinion is yours alone, taken out of perspective of the opinion of others it is irrelevant. It has no meaning. It is perfectly normal for people to hold wrong opinions. Your opinon is not necessarily of equal importance or merit to the opinion of others. Your opinion isn't correct simply because everyone can have one.
Quantative numbers allow us to apply perspective to an otherwise subjective opinion. Quality is empiric, it can be measured. Opinion can be measured to. Just because in your opinion something is in poor taste or of low quality, does not make it so.
Because the majority hold an opposite opinion to you, that does not reinforce your opinion; is reason for you to seriously re-evaluate your position. Peer review is an important aid to learning.
All men are created equal is a valuable political philosohopy in many societies. This does not extend to their opinions. The opinion of a fool is not of equal standing to the opinion of a genius. The opinion of a minority does not hold the same weight as the opinions of a majority. The greater the disparity between the majority and the minority, the more likely it is that the minority opinion is incorrect.
So when, it is your opinion that World of Warcraft is a boring or low quality game, you are wrong. Plain and simple. Empirically wrong.
It's still your personal opinion, no one can take that away from you. But it is a wrong opinion, and when you come out with it in the face of so much conclusive evidence to the contrary, you will be judged as a fool by your peers. Your opinion will be dismissed out of hand.
Facts are established by the production of evidence. When 10,000,000 say something is enjoyable or in good taste or of high quality, you have been presented with qualitative and quantifiable evidence. It becomes more than opinon, it becomes fact.
You are wrong.
There is such a thing as a wrong opinion.
In a maths class, the answer is not garnered by taking a vote amongst the pupils. The answer is empiric. Your opinion is irrelevant.
While it may be true to say that 10,000,000 can be wrong and frequently are, it is more true to say 10,000,000 can't be wrong and frequently aren't.
Good taste on the other hand is defined by personal preference. The more people that like it, the better taste it is held to be in. Your opinion weighs on this, but it does not define it.
Similarly, qualitative decisions are also subjective. So if you deem something to be of poor quality but the other 10,000,000 users do not, you are wrong.
Quantative numbers allow us to apply perspective to an otherwise subjective opinion. Quality is empiric, it can be measured. Just because in your opinion something is in poor taste or of low quality, does not make it so.
Because the majority hold an opposite opinion to you, that does not reinforce your opinion, is reason for you to seriously re-evaluate your position.
All men are created equal is a valuable political philosohopy in many societies. This does not extend to their opinions. The opinion of a fool is not of equal standing to the opinion of a genius. The opinion of a minority does not hold the same weight as the opinions of a majority. The greater the disparity between the majority and the minority, the more likely it is that the minority opinion is incorrect.
So when, it is your opinion that World of Warcraft is a boring or low quality game, you are wrong. Plain and simple. Empirically wrong.
It's still your personal opinion, no one can take that away from you. But it is a wrong opinion, and when you come out with it in the face of so much conclusive evidence to the contrary, you will be judged as a fool by your peers. Your opinion will be dismissed out of hand.
Facts are established by the production of evidence. When 10,000,000 say something is enjoyable or in good taste or of high quality, you have been presented with qualitative and quantifiable evidence. It becomes more than opinon, it becomes fact.
Actually, there is no right and wrong when it comes to opinion. What you are saying is only regarding to the majority (the idea of norm) vs the minority (the exception), which doesn't involve right or wrong.
You can state that statistically there are more players who prefer WoW's game style, as they are the majority. For those who doesn't like WoW in anyway, they are what's called the minority, and even so, their opinion matters. Since for even game developers, they need to know why there are people who doesn't like their game. So they can taken into account what kind of players like their game and what kind of players do not like their game. This way they can make the choice to either 1) continue to focus on the group of players they have now (the majority), and satisfy them with their game, or 2) try to change their approach and include designs that would attract the ones who dislike their game (the minority).
The only math that I understand that uses empirical data is statistic. And in statistic, especially in this case, the opinion of a population, it doesn't contain right or wrong, but true or false.
So what is True: the majority of players like to play WoW for what it is to them - a quality game.
What is also True: there are a minority of players who dislike WoW for various reasons.
So it is false to say that there are more people who dislike WoW, and it's false to say that WoW players is in the minority. But that's all the data offers in conclusive answer, it doesn't offer a right or wrong.
EDIT: Facts have proofs, yes. But in this case, what is the fact? The fact is as stated above - There are more players who prefer WoW. This is also a fact - There are groups of gamers, although is the minority, who dislike WoW. Both fact are TRUE, and none are wrong...
Current MMO: FFXIV:ARR
Past MMO: Way too many (P2P and F2P)
Their opinion matters. Correct.
But their opinion is still incorrect.
Game developers do not need to pay any attention to fools. They would be wrong to do so.
I agree that the dev's have much to learn from user feedback. But if .0001% says what they are doing is in poor taste and 99.999% says it is in good taste. The .0001% are wrong.
Their opinion is wrong. Good taste is defined by the opinions of the majority.
The opinons of one person is not of equal validity or importance to the opinions of 10,000,000 people. It must be taken in perspective.
If a player dislikes WoW. That is his preference, not his opinion.
If a player who dislikes WoW, dislikes it because it is a bad game, that is his opinion.
Airhead
Nice quote to Descarte! ^_^ Point to be made there then is that the only thing you have to base reality on then is what you perceive, in which case what you know to be true would actually be fact in a really weird way.
And Baff...you have some weird ways of thinking. o.0
If that was a quote from your professor you can tell him this.
o·pin·ion /??p?n
y?n/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[uh-pin-yuh
n] –noun
Opinion, is in fact, a persona point of view and actually does have nothing to do with fact. That doesn't mean they can't occasionally coincide. What you just said there though is an attempt at redefining what an opinion is however.
And realistically, 10,000,000 can be wrong or 10,000,000 can't is in all likely hood on close if not even grounds. Not to mention when did I say that there wasn't such a thing as a wrong opinion?
I might actually agree with you more if it weren't for the fact that we are talking of people, something math can't always seem to grasp. When people decide they like something or place a value on something, remember, on a scale of 1-10, 5 doesn't mean the same thing to everyone. In a numerical sense sure, in the "half-full or half-empty" way, you end up having many deeper and very subjective variables that are unaccounted for.
We actually seem to agree on quite a few things after reading your post, which kind of depresses me to say that I think you entirely missed the point.
Also i said this had nothing do do with WoW, not to mention I don't think I ever mentioned WoW in my first post... whay are you people wound up over a god damn game? You do know I am probably in the greatest majority of people who look at y'all and just ask each other "who cares?"...We're not about to go on a rant about how the game is good or bad, because that's for the other person to decide.
Getting back to your logic though, it kinda seems to assume that someone has to be wrong and not that we're all fully capable of being wrong. Which is probably the greatest flaw. As I said in my last post, what we know as our opinions is easily subject to change given access and willingness to accept new information.
Also..."Facts are established by the production of evidence. When 10,000,000 say something is enjoyable or in good taste or of high quality, you have been presented with qualitative and quantifiable evidence. It becomes more than opinon, it becomes fact."
That remark is entirely non sequitor. When 10,000,000 people have the same opinion, it may be takes as an assumed public truth, but it is not a fact. In no way is it an absolute and it is very prone to change, otherwise we would have the same facts about technology we had when the greeks had bronze...
I can agree that if something as subjective as what people likes is quoted from the majority it can be a fact of it's time. But that has absolutely nothing to do with the actual quality of something, how flawed it is, or otherwise.
EDIT: And your last remark still missed the fact that that %.0001 could know something the others don't and therefore actually be correct where the others aren't aware, thus being perfectly happy settling for something sub-par because they don't know any better.
AND STOP TALKING ABOUT WoW! This isn't about WoW!
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
You are confusing preference with opinion.
Your likes and dislike are whatever you say they are. The are empirically defined by your personal opinion.
Again good taste is defined by public opinion, so when 10,000,000 hold the opinion that something is in good or bad taste, you have been provided with an unignorable amount of evidence.
Facts are evidence based assumptions. This is not be confused with empirical truths which is the subject of religion. Ask Mulder if you are searching for the truth.
Quailty is empiric. It can be measured in any number of ways, including taking a cross section of opinions (peer review). Quality is not defined by personal opinion. It is a scientific measurement.
It is perfectly possible for a person to hold an opinion about the quality of an object and for that opinion to be wrong.
My comment about the 0.001 does not miss that point that in questions of empiric science, the 0.001% can be correct and the 99.999% incorrect. Galileo said the world wasn't flat.
You seem unable to grasp the concept of good and bad taste as opposed to personal preference. Good and bad taste are defined by the opinions of the peer group. If 99% say something is of good taste, then it is of good taste. the 1% are automatically wrong every time. They can never be right.
Tasteless people exist. People offend other people everyday. Just because you persoanlly believe something to be in good taste doesn't make it so. It is a group decision not an individual one.
o.0 What dictionary are ya using?
Any who, fact is even if you like something because "it is good" or hate it because "it is bad", that is not the end of it. You have to think it is good or think it is bad for reasons, reasons that obviously people all don't agree on.
And if you want to take it at a solid numerical point of view might I reiderate....6 BILLION PEOPLE....only 10MILLION subscribers....
Obviously there are many more people the world over that don't share the interest or belief that WoW is a good game to play.
Not to be a hypocrite for referencing WoW, but realistically you can say that about every single game or elsewhile thing we like or dislike.
"Good taste" is entirely dependent on individual experience. As I said, you aren't taking into account that the few that don't think it's good could in fact know something everyone else doesn't, which means their opinion is closer to truth. Perhaps they have tried something better the others simply haven't.
All a majority agreement proves is that the majority agrees, not that what they think is the best.
By the way, by what my dictionary says. Facts are unwavering knowns one can observe about reality. Truths are the state or character of being true.
What you are saying holds more to do with truths than anything else. People like something for a time, and eventually they like something else. If you haven't noticed the perceived quality of games decreases as they get older and forgotten while new games are touted heavily. The perceived quality of things is entirely based on truths, because it's entirely dependent upon the time and relevance.
EDIT: If you are talking about good taste in the sense of what is culturally acceptable, which is the only thing I can think of that would pass as an absolute based on majority, that still isn't a solid concept as it's still completely subject to that culture and inevitable change over time due to it not being in any way based on fact and entirely based on the majorities preferences and experiences.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
I use the Oxford dictionary as a personal preference.
It doesn't matter what you know that other people don't. Good taste is not something you are able to define on your own. It is defined by the opinions of a peer group and not by the "knowledge" of any specific individual.
Learn it, or have social issues.
Facts are evidence based. 10 million subs is evidence that many people liked WoW enough to pay for it.
This is quantifiable evidence. Fact.
If you wish to ignore this, you will be dismissed as a fool. Not much I can do about this really.
Oh here's a really good question then in regards to "good taste". The tax classes.
Most people fall under the middle class. This tends to be the "majority" and where majority opinions come from. whereas people like me who would be considered upper class seem to have differing preferences from the middle class, they are not opinions that are cast aside as if it was useless, and instead quite frequently embraced because the middle class seeks to at least "live" like the upper class if not able to achieve becoming upper class. Lower class people's opinions are frequently disregarded though.
Why do I point this out? Because the numbers in this regards breaks down. You have a majority that actually is being lead in their ideas of what is "right" and in "good taste" by what in actuality is a minority. But the middle class is wholly willing to follow us because we have the money and the life they think is ideal, making whatever we do, the right decision.
I enjoy a rather insulated life from problems most might consider daily issues. Hell I just paid off my last $535 speeding ticket out of my birthday money. :P I can be as big of a rebel as I want because I can afford it, and people actually idolize me because of it. What is that if not the minority dictating the majority?
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Vietnam war. Every American thought that the war was going great and that our military was winning over there. President Johnson promised that if he got re-elected that he would continue the bombardment until the vietnamese surrendered.
Turns out, every single American was wrong. Walter Cronkite, famous news anchor, went to Vietnam and found out that it was basically a bloody stalemate between the two forces. Johnson lost the election due to this.
This is just one example of millions upon millions of people being wrong.
I'm upper class too I suppose.
Shooting foxes is considered be in very poor taste. And yet I have my reasons.
I know I am right to do so, but I don't bother singing about it down the pub or at dinner parties. No one wants to shoot foxes with me. It's bad taste.
I don't have to like that's it bad taste to kill. That's just how it is.
You don't have to like that WoW is a great game. It still is.
Somethings in life just aren't your decisions to make. Get used to it.
P.S. you paying speeding fines is an example of you the minority being dictated to by the majority. Happens to us all. Try not paying your fines.
Nice story about the Vietnam War, allow me to counter it with a story of my own.
Every morning millions of people think the sun will rise. Every morning it does.
I hate to break your imaginary world you guys live in. However, in reference to WoW's subscriber base (to which I believe your referring this entire thread to, 6million people etc) these are not "people" you are so referring to.
Blizzard officially stated their game's population are generally children who have their parents foot the bill for WoW. I think roughly 80ish percentage of the player base for WoW were projected as children around the world whom have their parents pay for the game or use their allowances to buy GTC's to play (the funny part is blizzard counts GTC's, or game time cards, as subscriptions to boost their number even further).
I'm sorry to say but every time some WoW fanboi or Fangrrl brings up threads about how "awesome" WoW is and no one can argue with the subscriber counts. When, in reality, theres nothing to fight. It's nothing but children that support this game and it's EZ-Mode playstyle. Even the whole special that was done on Massive Multiplayer games even had very famous people in the MMO industry saying how EZ-mode WoW is, to Blizzards great success.
Stop making threads about how "Great" WoW is, because in the end it really isn't. The rest of us just view WoW as the pre-school version of an MMO. I for one can't wait for the new serious MMO's to come out soon
.
-MMO player for 9yrs
-DraGa
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
Shooting foxes is considered, only because the numbers. :P
From a purely logical and factual standpoint though no one is right as long as they say they are right or wrong for doing so. Only because they aren't obviously remembering that even if we stop hunting them and even go so far as to feed tham our babies, they will still eventually be wiped out in one of the many creative ways we have coming to us.
I'm not talking about in the next 10-20-100,000 years, but ya gotta admit that it's inevitable.
Also here's a wonderful story too that happens every day.
Many people wish that many things could be better. They don't get better. We still have poverty, rape, violence, wars, drugs, assholes sitting in the car next to you, corporate/government/religious dealings that screw over many people without them knowing. But, hey, that's life, eh? My dad votes for Bush so he can get more money, my mom votes for Gore because she loves plants, I third party because it doesn't really matter and i get to vote for weird political parties like the Nazi political party. Big Friggin' Deal.
Now enough about inane life stories.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Not to be an ass but please read the several times now where I have told people this has nothing to do with WoW and to shut up about the game.
It is in fact people like you that keep people talking about it, by bringing it up when, like in my OP, there is noting to do with WoW present and you just assume it does somehow...
To any future posters, if you say this thread has to do with WoW, I will regard you as illiterate or an idiot as I am right to do so because you obviously can't read!
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Not to be an ass but please read the several times now where I have told people this has nothing to do with WoW and to shut up about the game.
It is in fact people like you that keep people talking about it, by bringing it up when, like in my OP, there is noting to do with WoW present and you just assume it does somehow...
To any future posters, if you say this thread has to do with WoW, I will regard you as illiterate or an idiot as I am right to do so because you obviously can't read!
Eh? This is SOOOO a WoW thread :P. OR.....maybe my sarcasm is that post didn't come out at all. Though, I've got my dorm buddies laughing their asses off reading what I wrote because they apparently got "it".Honestly, what the hell were you talking about origionally.........none of us ever got it? I even posted a link to our ventrilo where several others were like "huh?...is this related to wow or what?".
PLEASE clarify your arguement or have it forever be looked upon as another WoWissoawsomemypantscantstayon thread.
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
We're all eagerly anticipating new and exciting MMO's.
Like it or not, WoW is a great game.
...it's a what? ...I was arguing that large numbers of people doesn't equate to something being good/bad or otherwise. If anything that means I don't give a crap about WoW...
And to note: Sarcasm is quite frequently lost when translated to text. Also I have stated in almost every thread after my first post that I did not intend this at all to be about WoW. It is actually rather annoying that WoW seems to be the only thing on people's minds when they start reading things like this, I fail almost entirely in making the link between what I said and how it relates to WoW. :P
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Blizzard officially stated that the average player age for WoW is 28.We're all eagerly anticipating new and exciting MMO's.
Like it or not, WoW is a great game.
Purely opinion I suppose. However, I don't believe blizzard whatsoever on that (28) thing. The first time I tried WoW's trial I was invited onto a giant guild's teamspeak. Whom was filled with nothing but around 19 kids below the age of 15 and two adults in there at the time. Upon conversing with the only two individuals above the age of 18, they stated it's normally like this and raids can be difficult because of all the childish and immature antics.
I dropped the game like it was hot (
) after that. Since then, I've heard nothing but problems with WoW being the grindaholic, Ez-mode, immature riddled kids, gaming enviroment that it is from kids and a few adults in EBgames and Walmart. The age levels in WoW are also a very big conversation topic at my college since we only have two professors who play it in computer classes.
I despise WoW because I despise kids and their attitudes in games, because since its over the internet they talk bigger than if you were actually in the same room with them. Respect goes a long way towards others.
I really won't go into the gameplay of WoW and why I detest that part more, simply because it's been stated this is not a WoW thread....so err....yea xD!
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
Im not sure abouut that!
1942 there was 70,600,000 germans in germany that thinked Hitler was the best guy in the world !
Not to talk about all supporters he had in other countries.
Maybe 200,000,000 people in total! They all liked Hitlers Idea.
And guess what, in thee end. They was all wrong !
But it deviate from OP his topic, i dont care if 10million say wow is good, and then say others who think other wise are wrong, difference between me and others is, wow is badgame for me, but i can understand 10milllion think other wise.
Again i have right to say what i want about this matter, freedom of speech.
Have fun playing wow np for me, im gonne play a much better game:)
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
You have an "WHICH FINAL FANTASY CHAR R U?!?!?!!" sig
everything you've said has been immediately disregarded, good say sir.
This ain't about WoW! Quit talking about WoW!
And Asamof...then why the hells did you even bother to post? It's a friggin' sig, that's all...you can ignore it, you can choose not to click on it, you have all kinds of choices for things to not do with the sig, so why worry about a stupid sig? Kinda ignorant to dwell on something so pointless as a picture with a link to an inane quiz...
Now then...has everyone been able to grasp the "shut up about WoW" now? For that matter let's not pin it to any game or thing in particular.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin