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My retarded idea. Possible?
Genjing
Member Posts: 441
Urrrr... this is totally out of the blue, but maybe there's a way to plan a mmorpg that only runs for say...4-6 months... deliberately? Hear me out before flaming please kthx.
I'm sure many of us have thought of a MMORPG with the storyline depth and dynamics of FFtactics or other single player classics, to be played alongside thousands of other players.
If the game were to sacrifice all the needs for longevity (grind, static world, continous content over years) in exchange for really dynamic storytelling that has a predetermined beginning, middle, but multiple endings (depending on how well the players do/their choices), can effect vast changes on the world and populace (i don't mean like changing seasons, i mean like FF3's World of Balance to World of Ruin style change, cities being leveled to dust, or organized mob armies that behave intelligently), and uniquely designed NPC's with character that act out parts... imagine it as one, huge old school DnD adventure that lasts for months then for the last week things come to a climax to determine the ending.
On average , a single player game does not last 4-6 months, so this game would run once first... at a monthly price at maybe 20-30 dollars (which really isn't a lot if you buy enough single player rpg's to take up 4-6 months instead), and if there is enough interest it can run again so the players can play for a different ending, or try a different play style. I know i played Chrono Trigger way more than once.
I mean, where in MMORPG does it say it has to be a world and a story that has no ending goal?
Or maybe i'm just an idiot cus i'm buzzed. Either way share them opinions.
Comments
Your idea is brilliant!
I rather see it implemented in a way where there is 6 months with more GMs involvement and evolution of the world, and afterward instead of closing it, the world become more static and more boring as the devs work on something else.
The ending would be the start of a more static game, so thereby it is really an end in itself to the game the players know before, as it evolve and all...but instead of been over and done, you can keep it running for the nostalgics.
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For something like EQ, I don't see this working.
However, this would be great for a game like Shadowbane, where the leveling curve is pretty fast. Once a particular nation has effectively taken over, hit the reset button and start over. They might need to tweak the xp and gold rates a bit, but think it would work. It would promote the siege aspect of the game more than what it is now.
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I see this as a good idea but the dev time and money it costs to make a RPG would have to be recoupable somehow and would it balance with the quality that people expect when they are paying for a game.
I for one get tired after 4 or 5 months of most games and love this idea.
Bildgerat LiL'Pirate
Bildgerat LiL'Pirate
Ahh i know the feeling... like when i finished FF3 and FF7 for example, i almost didn't want the game to end... because i wanted to see what happened to all the characters and the world afterwards. The static epilogue game could serve to tide us over until a sequel perhaps, at a normal mmorpg price. I don't think there would be much content leftover though, for example the dot hack series. After you finish the first volume, you can keep playing but it gets veeeeery boring very fast without the great storyline and events going on. Thats why i like the idea of simply running the cycle again, with multiple endings that players can go for. That way they can keep the game running so to speak while working on something else.
Everyone dont buy the game at day 1 and people that would end
up buying the game later on would miss alot or never buy it
knowing that the end was just over the hill...
Well... basically i was thinking of FF Tactics when coming up with this. So the game basically revolves around squad level or army-level forces in several series of fights. If the players lose one part where they're supposed to win, for example winning a decisive victory at castle x and defeating the general, they'll have to keep trying until they get it to move the storyline forward. There will be parts where NPC's come in and it will be like a single player rpg, except all those fighters you're with are real unique people. Yea there are some real problems with the whole thing, which is why i put "retarded" in the thread title, but i consider it an idea in the works.
Hitting reset for a pvp game might kinda hurt for the winning team though... maybe they should get a reward to start with in the next round?
Either that, or maybe there could be variables that naturally even things up, even if one faction "wins". For example, one group takes over every major city in the realm. The game's programming knew this would happen so all the other groups become "rebels" and gain hideouts in cities and the wilderness, or guerilla bonuses... while the governing group has a lot of ground to protect, but the help of NPC guards.
Yea... how to make it economically viable is the biggest problem... but maybe by raising the monthly subscribtion to 20-30 dollars would make it up; considering i can go through a 50$ single player rpg in a month or 2, i'd be willing to pay at least double normal mmorpg rates for a game of that caliber. You get what you pay for, hopefully.
And i'm not sure, but how long does a mmorpg have to last for it to become profitable? I assumed that the prices were there to pay for upkeep and for devs and gm's and other people to continously maintain it for years, and come up with more and more content. A game designed to only last 4-6 months, based on storyline, shouldn't need more than a patch to fix some bugs, and the bandwidth fee i think....
1. No one will even think of making anything like that within 10 years.
2.
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1. Yea maybe... its not like the mmorpg genre is failing atm so there's no real need for something like this yet, but as you probably noticed... this is something i'd really want to play ^^.
2. My idea for that problem, is that there is a "learning" period in the pacing of the game... maybe like 2 or 3 weeks where the world is normal, before shit hits the fan, and the world is tossed into turmoil/deceit etc etc.. Also its a monthly subscription (or maybe even... a weekly subscription o.O) so they won't necessarily be ripped off money wise by coming in later. And if there are multiple endings or paths in the game, it could run more than once, and more people come in after hearing great reviews of the first run.
Financially risky, i know
I think it's an excellent idea and was posting about something similar elsewhere.
It would be nice if the game -on each server- could progress as the players want. There will be ways to end the world (or at least set it back) and players that want the world to stay static will actually have to thwart the actions of more chaotic players.
It would also be nice if the game would automatically generate a history of the world. So that if the world is ended (all characters presumably reset) then at least players have a record of their character's accomplishments.
--lZ
hmm as some said before I think its unattreavie too invest into an gamedevelopment if you can get more netto worth back.
Why not encapsul your idea into an MMORPG as it exists having GM/DM longterm events/adventure/quest against extra cost. though I think an raised base cost and Major GM/DMed adventures/events if its done well id pay woulkd get more excepted t. Personally id pay what ever it has too cost.
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Light laughter and sweet water to you fellow adventures.
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Light laughter and sweet water to you fellow adventures.
I do like this game idea... it's quite quite cool and I would totally play it, no doubt... it'd almost be a new genre, honestly... and it would be a whole lot closer to capturing the table top feel on the computer, an admirable feat to say the least...
With the giant war going on, I'd want them to add a lot of support for the subplots that players make... that's what made stuff like LotR, 13th Warrior and Troy that much more fun to me...
And definitely leave the servers up static for a small fee after the story ends, ruled by one kingdom, whether it be dark and oppressive, bright and hopeful or crazy and anarchy-ridden depends on how which alliance 'wins.' It should take more than just taking over the world to win the game, too.
Make the story epic, throw in a couple gods, an ancient prophecy or two, some foreigners and a small army of uber mobs... like a flock of dragons or something (maybe it's been done before, but what GM wouldn't wanna play with a flock of dragons?) and draw out something really special. Everyone who played it would remember it... it would be a fraternity of sorts... the more people you can fit on one server the better... if no other, let this MMO be known as the definition of what an epic battle is...
I love this idea, but I'll stop now...
edit:
Oh yeah, possibility:
I say it's possible, but it'd be so hard to do the cost thing... most gamers would say it's overpriced, because they wouldn't ever compare it console games, no matter how much GMing is going on...
If you can make the initial cost lower because the game won't be developed indefinitely, then you're onto something great...
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City of Heroes Fanboy
Future Game Designer
All-around bad mutha-shutchomouf
The Illusion of Choice
A Tale in the Desert is about to end its first telling, after which will be a total wipe and restart, with changes to the overall system. This idea is out there already.
How about all those things you said but...make it last indefinitely.
I'd never buy an mmo that only ran for 4-6 months. Not to mention the developers probably wouldn't turn a profit in that time so I doubt that it's very likely we'll ever see one.
Until you cancel your subscription, you are only helping to continue the cycle of mediocrity.
hmm...
I think it would make a fun experience to have a game like that. But maybe instead of a few months of the event it could be a year or even two. That is a good amount for a player to play before he can want to leave the game. But this isnt as good as if it were 4 to 5 weeks maybe... becuse even if it was shorter there could be some kind of stats system or reward system that lets you keep some stuff from your other adventure and then it restarts the world and setting all the characters back to square one but getting rewards from last event... so if it lasted only a few weeks you would get more rewards for the more you do, and new people can come in and join when ever.
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Played: EQ, Planetside, SWG, WoW, EQ2
MMORTS? That i'd like to see someday ^^
I see what you mean... but the current "model" of MMO gaming is designed to make it last for a very very long time. In a single player rpg, we know that once we beat the game, our level 75 character with all the best equipment in the game won't have much more to do; and thats pretty satisfactory, because we were treated to an amazing story and dynamic gameplay. Accomplishing things is an important part of mmorpgs, but once you're max level what are you really left with if there wasn't a purpose to all that?
I think my idea would build community and individual characters as well; Hype is right on the money about the "fraternity" sort of thing, that comes from sharing an amazing experience with others.
Here's an idea of what might happen towards the end of the game:
The good guys have failed to stop evil warlord from resurrecting a huge ancient beast. The NPC leader decides that the only thing to do is split up players into 4 groups. One group has to defend the towns from the hordes of the warlord, while leading its citizens to safety. Another group has to battle and distract the ancient beast long enough for the first to save all the citizenry (like battling the stages and offspring of Sin in FFX) everytime they lose to the beast the beast stays on course, while everytime they win the beast is forced off course... if they fail too much a town will be razed to the ground by the beast. The third group launches a diversionary assault at the warlord's outer domain to draw off the majority of the remaining horde... and the fourth has to siege the castle and defeat the warlord before the third is forced to retreat.
I dunno how possible this is, but it would increase replay as people might want to try a different perspective of the fight... and its the kind of roleplaying and adventure i wish that mmorpg's could have.
Well... i figured something had to be sacrificed to have this sort of gameplay. And if we really want a good epic storyline, it can't really last indefinitely. I for one would be willing to pay more for this type of game. The dot hack games for example, are 50 bucks each when they first came out. Each game lasted only 20-30 hours. A mmorpg of this level would last much longer than all 4 dot hack games, maybe be about the same total price, and be a better game because its a real MMO. Logically its worth the money, but you're right in that people might not want to pay it.
GRRR
GRRR
GRRR
GRRR
Not sure if someone has already posted this, but WWII Online does this already. When one side wins, they start it over again...
As far as it being in a Fantasy MMORPG, I think it could work. A few months is enough if the leveling curve is quick. Can't make it too long that poeple get really attached to their characters after having put too much into them.
Then, if the layout of the world, and the dungeons is changed at each reset, it would seem new or at least a little different each time, which would make it fun again.
The cost of developing a MMORPG capable of bringing in an audience willing to pay 20-30 dollars a month would be far greater than any revenue they get from subscribers over 4-6 months.
No one would buy or try the game unless they knew it was a sureshot without them including a free month. With a free month, that would eliminate 1/4-1/6 of their total revenues earned over the lifetime of the MMORPG, which is an insanely huge amount in the market. Once the game is released, the story would begin and any player coming in after the first month would miss out on big events and would be less inclined to join at the start of month 2 or later.
It just isn't too possible with the competitive MMORPG market these days. The costs are too high and the demand is not as much as needed for something like this.
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Okay, something's not clicking with this conversation...
The game I thought I was talking about involved a lot of GM involvement and an epic, permanent, six month long storyline. It was a one time slave project that was super-duper great, but because of the manpower and unpredictability of the experience, was virtually unrepeatable. They could reset, but the game would be unplayable and pointless without the dozens of GMs to run it... that'd be a game I'm interested in playing... doing the same war over and over again would be boring to me... again: I'm against a reset game... I'm for an experience so great that it simply cannot be repeated followed by an epilogue...
The issue with the resistant subscribers, who don't want to pay $50-$2000 for a game that last six months is interesting. Yes, they would pay that much for four months of new non-mmo gaming, but MMOers don't think like that... they usually compare to EQ. Does it have tradeskills and PvP? Does it cost about the same as EQ? If not, it's considered 'substandard.'
One solution is to sell the game as a mixed genre. It's an MMO, but it's multi-GM ORPG, or some such. Play up the fact that this isn't going to be a world full of mobs or wannabe-ubers, but the table-top experience brought to life. Another way is to give it authenticity... getting respected writers on the dev staff or showcasing as the "real" mmoRPG! could be interesting. Or you might just have to let word of mouth spread from Beta... your biggest danger is that "all my hard work will be wasted" attitudes will keep people from playing a non-indefinite MMO... I'm not sure on that one, but I'll get back to it...
regardless... the technology is there, the interest is there, to play a GMed online game that, because of the intense focus period on it, is able to accomplish all the things other MMOs only promise. Epic, meaningful PvP (it doesn't mean anything if they just respawn and we have the battle next week, does it?), true in-depth role playing with all the features an online RPer needs, including GM involvement on occasion... big events that are really big and GM event after GM event after GM event after GM event... a world to explore indefinitely, even after the 'great war' is over... everyone feels needed in the community, and a community is built strong because, after a dragon razes a town, you know that town will never be built again... when Gargon, another player, takes the throne, you know that that throne is *his* and you won't take it from him if he can help it... when you see hills and valleys of army approaching your castle, they are ALL other players, and you will never have a battle like this again. Ever.
That is a $200 six months, imho...
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City of Heroes Fanboy
Future Game Designer
All-around bad mutha-shutchomouf
The Illusion of Choice
I think see where you're coming from... but i have a question:
Would running it only once, at 200$ over 4-6 months be profitable, after paying these writers and gms and devs? I only added the reset thing because i was worried about how something like this would make money.
And I don't know if there can really be an epic storyline if its all PvP... since players are unpredictable, the writers will have to make things up as the players battle? A GM controlled mob enemy horde/ giant monster would make for better storytelling i think. That way, no matter what players do, the storyline should still move in the writer's direction. Actually a PvP game with heavy GM involvement and storyline control would be great too.... i guess all i'm really looking for is an actual storyline and single player-like quality and dedication in a mmorpg.
So then how would this be as a setup....
There are 2 kingdoms that are constantly at war with one another... true rivals. Each has a capitol city and several other cities that they're always battling at... when one day a greater evil (the GM's) arrives in the realm and proceeds to try and destroy both kingdoms.... so the rivals will have to occasionally work together and there could be betrayals and switching sides and all that good stuff, with an epic overarching storyline, that included lots of subplots including insurgents/godzilla monsters etc etc.
I've got a little bit better idea. Let me just throw my example out. Ok Asherons Call. Anyone who was old school remembered that the time when we had to destroy the crystals (for all of you who don't know, this was a major game event). Well, the next months update decided that destroying the crystals led to the release of Bahl'zeron. The super uber mofo that was hard as all hell. Whats my point? Well there were 6 crystals I believe. Each were located in different places around the world. You go to the dungeon, fight your way through, kill the crystal, wait for a bit and WTF it respawns! A "major" opponent that you just defeated, and even sometimes took you almost to near death, respawns! Same when Dark Majesty came out. You killed the Olthoi Queen and the bitch respawns!
Well, here is what I am getting at. We need an mmropg that has at least 1 major update per month. We'll go with ACs crystals again. Say I go and kill crystal 1. That dam thing doesn't respawn. It's DEAD. Then when all 6 crystals are destroyed, that event is over and we are at a somewhat "peacetime" until the next months major event, peacetime meaning the major threat is over, but we must go back to our daily routines and find the "minor quest" that do not have an impact on the game itself. However, the crystals aren't easy to kill, they need a super uber group of people to do it, therefore, if we don't get all the dam crystals, then something else happens.
My major point is that you can't really feel a sense of accomplishment in an mmorpg. I remember I was one of the first people to kill that hard ass Olthoi Queen on my server, then she respawned, got killed again, respawned, got killed again, etc. etc. etc. Kind of ruins my moment. MMORPGs are supposed to be about a unique and individual character. You can't have that if everyone has the option to repeat the quest that you completed, the one that made ya stand out in the crowd. It makes everyone just clones. Classes should not always be balanced. One should be more powerful than the other. A complete melee character should not be able to stand up to a master wizard on equal footing. As a wizard should not be allowed to wear a set of armor that protects them from physical damage.
That's about it!
edit: WOW! MY 1000th POST!
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