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IF you plan to play AC and are new to the game read this
Jamkull
Member UncommonPosts: 214
If you have played some of the newer MMOs you may be set back a bit by Asheron's Call. It was developed around the old MUD designs where you have a lot of /commands. Plus the user interface is a bit clunky...
First be sure to understand also that to understand most of the commands in-game you have the /help command. it will list catagories that you can then get further help by adding /help commands for example which will list most available commands. then there are others like /help housing and such to help with various aspects of the game.
So to help remove some of the tedium of certain elements of AC there has been the development of a 3rd party program that has been around for a long time. And it's plugins have changed names several times due to people moving on and other people taking up the development etc. The main program is called Decal and then there are lots of other plugins for it to help make playing AC a much more pleasureable experience. These programs are excepted by Turbine to be used with Asheron's Call but they accept no liablity for what they may do etc.
Decal can be found here: http://www.decaldev.com/
A good list of Decal Plugins can be found here:
http://acheaven.buwahaha.com/DecalIndex.htm
Be sure to read about the plugin carefully because some of the plugins are a bit redundant of other ones. So their functions may overlap and you may have issues. But most of them allow you to turn off/on functions you don't want to use. Also some require a lot of setting up to work properly. so be sure to read on their forums and such of their functionality. Some of them don't require any setup and really help out the newbie player a lot.
ones i would highly recommend are:
AC+ - This helps track kill quests, XP gains, enhanced target information, and helpful buff timers. Plus many other nice functions like one touch healing (assign 1 simple key to heal) so you don't have to have to use multiple keys and/or methods to heal yourself.
Find It! - This will help find the things you are looking for. anything from items to creatures and portals. it comes preset well for new players but once you get an understanding of the game better this can be a very helpful tool.
Go Arrow - A very good plugin that has mapping function for most of the game. This can also give you the best route from one point to another and great searching features.
Comments
"Decal can be found here: http://www.decaldev.com/
A good list of Decal Plugins can be found here:
http://acheaven.buwahaha.com/DecalIndex.htm"
And that "plug-in" is one of the biggest reasons for begining the demise of what was formerly a great game.
Players couldn't be bothered to actually play the game, so they made up these 3rd party apps to play it for them. Some to the severe detriment to their fellow players. But hey, they were getting the maximum XP/Hr for their XP chain. Who gives a rats ass about the rest of the server.
You crack me up talking about how great of a game AC is to play, and then the first thing you do after that is refer people to a website of programs that essentially plays the game for them. Way to let them experience the game.
Why don't you just give them the locations of the buffbotts and the newest macros so they can really fit in with the "players"(and I use that term loosely) that are left in AC.
Yeah, I'm bitter. You jackasses ruined a great game for alot of people with your selfishness.
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
The four people who will join AC as new players this year will surely thank you for this information.
So true...
I remember talking to some other MMO players back in the day and when I mentioned I played AC at the time (02 / 03) they were like "isn't that the game they let people bot and cheat in?"....
Its all the exploiters / plug in kings and Turbine allowing it and facilitating it, that killed AC.
Yeah thats the rep AC had.....
EDIT
Thats also why a new graphic engine for AC will not help the game unless they do something about that. Everyone new coming into a game full buffbots and auto finding detecting crap and whatever else they did....it doesn't matter what the game looks like, if its full of exploiters, botters and cheaters it will be no better off then it is now.
but your rant is obviously without knowledge because most of the apps used for decal simply add functionality that is already available in a majority of today's MMOs. Maybe not so much the xp/hr type thing, but personally it doesn't matter that much to me. But the Mapping function which is something that was sorely needed is something worthwhile. Find It! allows for a loot window much like what you find in WoW. But it filters the things you are not looking for, because in AC you do end up with a lot of useless loot. Plus the Xp chain thing was changed so that it doesn't work like it once did, that was something people took advantage of that was a faulty game design mechanic. That was changed back in '04 or so..
The only bad thing is the player themselves that make and use such programs as UCMs etc. which of course i'm not one of those. I've played AC since April 2000 and with all the new functionality of newer games people that try AC now will be set back quite a bit without some of that which they are familar with.
Sorry you feel such is somehow damaging the game... But honestly they have helped a lot to me. But the cool part right now is how the community is real heavy on cracking down on people that do UCM. Because there are always ways to deal with them our way rather than waiting on an Envoy. :P at least on morningthaw anyway.
But you don't have to use the programs if you don't want to, the only thing that destroys one's experience is other players around them. And that can be said about any game. It really matters not what programs they may be running in the background. lord knows you got plenty of them with WoW and many other games out. but funny how no one complains about those it seems :P
So true...
I remember talking to some other MMO players back in the day and when I mentioned I played AC at the time (02 / 03) they were like "isn't that the game they let people bot and cheat in?"....
Its all the exploiters / plug in kings and Turbine allowing it and facilitating it, that killed AC.
Yeah thats the rep AC had.....
EDIT
Thats also why a new graphic engine for AC will not help the game unless they do something about that. Everyone new coming into a game full buffbots and auto finding detecting crap and whatever else they did....it doesn't matter what the game looks like, if its full of exploiters, botters and cheaters it will be no better off then it is now.
I guess you would rather have a bunch of whiny people bugging you for a buff all the time then? because in AC that is something at higher levels you do need, and its that innate dependency on magic that has damaged the game to me. because not everyone feels they should have to be buffed out the gills in order to engage in the higher level content. Like in many of other games that need is not there thus you have no need for a buffbot etc :P But just because one person uses and another doesn't, matters not of the game experience... And if any other game had such a random loot generator such as that of AC then you'd have 3rd party apps to sort through it also. No matter what game you play I can guarantee you there are 3rd party apps available for it. But in some cases ie. WoW they have designed their UI to allow you to incorporate much of the functionality of what Decal provides. which i find that ironic. plus the loot in many other games is much more black and white rather than the thousands of probablities of that of AC.
and read my above post, it matters not about the programs people use, its the players that destroy the game. and most of those have thankfully moved on.
but your rant is obviously without knowledge because most of the apps used for decal simply add functionality that is already available in a majority of today's MMOs. Maybe not so much the xp/hr type thing, but personally it doesn't matter that much to me. But the Mapping function which is something that was sorely needed is something worthwhile. Find It! allows for a loot window much like what you find in WoW. But it filters the things you are not looking for, because in AC you do end up with a lot of useless loot. Plus the Xp chain thing was changed so that it doesn't work like it once did, that was something people took advantage of that was a faulty game design mechanic. That was changed back in '04 or so..
The only bad thing is the player themselves that make and use such programs as UCMs etc. which of course i'm not one of those. I've played AC since April 2000 and with all the new functionality of newer games people that try AC now will be set back quite a bit without some of that which they are familar with.
Sorry you feel such is somehow damaging the game... But honestly they have helped a lot to me. But the cool part right now is how the community is real heavy on cracking down on people that do UCM. Because there are always ways to deal with them our way rather than waiting on an Envoy. :P at least on morningthaw anyway.
But you don't have to use the programs if you don't want to, the only thing that destroys one's experience is other players around them. And that can be said about any game. It really matters not what programs they may be running in the background. lord knows you got plenty of them with WoW and many other games out. but funny how no one complains about those it seems :P
My rant is very well informed thanks.
I played AC from beta until 2005. I saw everything I wrote about happen first hand.
As for what you consider useful. We never needed a 3rd party app to find our way around...spend some time playing the game, exploring, and learning the portal routes. That's what we did in the "olden days" before all you bot babies came along and couldn't be bothered to learn your way around.
The loot program is beyond ridiculous. It takes a whole 10 seconds to open a corpse and check the loot. But it's much easier to have a 3rd party app scan the corpse before you even open it to see if you need to waste your time. Talk about vitual laziness. Again, if you play the game long enough instead of letting a 3rd party program do it, you will quickly learn what is useful and what is junk loot wise.
I am aware the XP chain was changed from how it was, but it's still going on, just a different way than before. And the Partron/vassal system was not a poor mechanic, it was a great game mechanic exploited by unscrupulous, selfish players that cared more about XP/hour than their fellow players or how their actions would affect content.
Some players did alot to ruin the game for others around them, and it was exactly because of these laziness 3rd party programs. I couldn't care less about WoW. They built functionality into their game to accomodate them. AC did not. It was this bastardization by the players that ruined the game for many other players and it had everything to do with the programs they were running.
Unless you're going to try and tell me buffbots and portal bots, to name a couple, are good things. I mean the game not being challenging until level 30+ is a good thing right. That's about how it works out with all those lower levels walking around with full 7's. And why bother learning your way around or the portal system when there's a portal bot you know of that will summon a portal to exactly where you want.
Anyways, I have never, nor will I ever use a 3rd party program. These games are easy enough as it is and I am more than capable of playing the games within the intended framework the devs give us. The only reason to use 3rd party apps IMO is laziness.
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
So true...
I remember talking to some other MMO players back in the day and when I mentioned I played AC at the time (02 / 03) they were like "isn't that the game they let people bot and cheat in?"....
Its all the exploiters / plug in kings and Turbine allowing it and facilitating it, that killed AC.
Yeah thats the rep AC had.....
EDIT
Thats also why a new graphic engine for AC will not help the game unless they do something about that. Everyone new coming into a game full buffbots and auto finding detecting crap and whatever else they did....it doesn't matter what the game looks like, if its full of exploiters, botters and cheaters it will be no better off then it is now.
I guess you would rather have a bunch of whiny people bugging you for a buff all the time then? because in AC that is something at higher levels you do need, and its that innate dependency on magic that has damaged the game to me. because not everyone feels they should have to be buffed out the gills in order to engage in the higher level content. Like in many of other games that need is not there thus you have no need for a buffbot etc :P But just because one person uses and another doesn't, matters not of the game experience... And if any other game had such a random loot generator such as that of AC then you'd have 3rd party apps to sort through it also. No matter what game you play I can guarantee you there are 3rd party apps available for it. But in some cases ie. WoW they have designed their UI to allow you to incorporate much of the functionality of what Decal provides. which i find that ironic. plus the loot in many other games is much more black and white rather than the thousands of probablities of that of AC.
and read my above post, it matters not about the programs people use, its the players that destroy the game. and most of those have thankfully moved on.
Oh please, you lazy 3rd party app people have been throwing that whiny buff beggar line out since the buff bots first started showing up. Before then, it was no problem for anyone to throw out some buffs. It called community. In the good ones like we had before you cheaters came along, we helped people out with buffs.
And you can play a magic less character in AC using arcane lore. But why bother trying that when it's much easier to just run to the buffbot and whine about how the game can't be played without magic.
As for the loot. Again, gimmie a break. If you've been playing AC as long as you say you have, you should know what's junk and what isn't. The only reason you need a 3rd party app to sort through your loot is because you can't be bothered to do it yourself. Again, laziness.
Whether or not you can find 3rd party apps for games is not the point. They were not designed as part of AC so they don't belong there. Secondly, the game is perfectly playable without them, it's just that players are too lazy, and have become too dependent on them to do so. Anymore, players don't even get to try the game without them because as soon as they show up they have someone like you shoving them down their throat as the only way to really play the game.
The players that ruined the game haven't left. The ones that left are the ones that got tired of the cheating and dependency on 3rd party apps. If any of the cheaters left, its because they had no one left to compete against except other cheaters and that wasn't enough for their e-peens.
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
To all you people bashing decal : grow up
Macroing was a problem way back, i agree. But there is no doubt this game would no longer exist without macroing, it has kept the game going through the HUGE grind that is it. there is no other game around at the moment that is anywhere near the grind that AC is, in terms of both gear and leveling. The game has been pretty much build around macroers now. However it still has the best questing system and character building system of any game out there.
If decal had been stoped back in 02/03, that would have been fine. But trying to surviving in this game nowadays without macroing is just a waste of time and the grind will make your eyes bleed to be honest.
The fact that you're still bitter about decal is kinda sad.
was once a really great game
Yeah, grow up damn it!
Download the damn decal and all the fine benefits it has to offer so you to can macro with the best of them...along side 10's of other players....
I don't mean to be a bother to people with angst towards AC however, Macroing did little to affect anyone who was not in a PVP environment.
In PVE your level means nothing relative to other players. Competing in XP and Level is ridiculous in a PVE game because it is just an integer figure of someone elses character that has little to no effect on your personal gameplay. What is that person who has 100+ Levels of macroing going to do to you? Nothing. They can't touch you at all. All they can do is show off their uber macroed loot and stats.
If that makes you jealous, I would advise a revision in your attitude towards the game. In fact, the macroer has missed out on tremendous content that YOU have been able to experience by actually playing the game. YOU have gotten more out of the game in personal enjoyment. People in PVE geared games need to stop comparing their character to everyone elses and just have fun.
A player who is only focused on what level of creature they can kill and powers they can use plays a very shallow version of any MMO. They should be pittied.
Just dropping by in the AC forum. Let me say: if AC was so fun wouldn't people rather play the game than bot?
I don't blame people for botting I blame developers for expecting players to do the same thing 4 million times and call it gameplay.
_______________________________
PM me when an MMO as good as UO was comes out.
i remember those dark days. guilds turning into freaking macro exp trees instead of staying communities. folks dogging on you because members werent putting in enough exp for the guild (wtf over?!) macro this macro that. sadness.
can you smell that?!!...............there is nothing quite like it.....................the smell of troll in the morning............i love that smell.
Spoken like one of the selfish, greedy, clueless players that just don't get it about how things like decal and macroing ruined AC.
You see things as a grind and an XP/Level race and all those things you macroed and decaled to make simpler are simply obstacles to your XP/hour.
For the real players, those were immersive parts of the world we belonged to. We didn't see it as a grind. It was part of interacting with Dereth.
If the macroing and 3rd party apps had been addressed when they first started to appear, AC might have enjoyed a longer successful run. Instead, because of these things, AC quickly became known as a cheaters haven and was the laughing stock of the rest of the gaming community. Exploit early, exploit often was the catch phrase. The players that once loved the game left because they were sick of the cheating, and new players weren't a consideration because no one wanted to play a game where cheating was accepted.
You cheaters ruined the game, there was nothing wrong with the game itself.
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
Wrong.
There is no jealousy here. It has nothing to do with my levels, or XP/hour, what a higher level player can "do" to me or anything of that nature.
Macroing did alot to ruin the game outside of the PvP environment.
What it did, with the help of XP chains, was exponentially inflate the average level of the playerbase and skew content dramatically as a result.
It ruined many dungeons, some quest dungeons(cold stone anyone)because macroers were camped there 24/7. What was once a challenging dungeon became nothing more than a walkthrough, because no sooner did something spawn and it was killed by the macroers.
The reason you don't see these things is because you are trying to see the PvE world using PvP reasoning. There's alot more to it than levels, and power, and phat loot.
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
Wrong.
There is no jealousy here. It has nothing to do with my levels, or XP/hour, what a higher level player can "do" to me or anything of that nature.
Macroing did alot to ruin the game outside of the PvP environment.
What it did, with the help of XP chains, was exponentially inflate the average level of the playerbase and skew content dramatically as a result.
It ruined many dungeons, some quest dungeons(cold stone anyone)because macroers were camped there 24/7. What was once a challenging dungeon became nothing more than a walkthrough, because no sooner did something spawn and it was killed by the macroers.
I played on HG when I wanted a break from DT. I wasn't necessarily the most social player. I only really talked with my friends in the game. Because of this I was constantly accused of being a macro. Some people just aren't as social. What you are complaining about could just as well be about too much population in a dungeon.
From what I understand, the PVE servers loved walkthrough quests. They even arranged to complete the land manipulation quest at different times so they weren't actually competing against anyone.
Macroing didn't kill AC. It's prevalent in all major MMO's. They seem to be doing alright.
Wrong.
There is no jealousy here. It has nothing to do with my levels, or XP/hour, what a higher level player can "do" to me or anything of that nature.
Macroing did alot to ruin the game outside of the PvP environment.
What it did, with the help of XP chains, was exponentially inflate the average level of the playerbase and skew content dramatically as a result.
It ruined many dungeons, some quest dungeons(cold stone anyone)because macroers were camped there 24/7. What was once a challenging dungeon became nothing more than a walkthrough, because no sooner did something spawn and it was killed by the macroers.
I played on HG when I wanted a break from DT. I wasn't necessarily the most social player. I only really talked with my friends in the game. Because of this I was constantly accused of being a macro. Some people just aren't as social. What you are complaining about could just as well be about too much population in a dungeon.
From what I understand, the PVE servers loved walkthrough quests. They even arranged to complete the land manipulation quest at different times so they weren't actually competing against anyone.
Macroing didn't kill AC. It's prevalent in all major MMO's. They seem to be doing alright.
Yeah, it could've been....but it wasn't.
The cold stone dungeon was a well known macro hangout on LC. I know, because I belonged to one of the guilds(I left after I found out about their activities) that macroed there. I knew the players that macroed there, some were in game friends. Besides that, a script was very easy to tell early on because there was no attempt to hide the fact that one was macroing and the scripts were very basic.
Your understanding of PvE servers is lacking. Of course, I cannot say I am surprised by this perception of us "carebears" from a DT'er. PvE servers didn't like to walkthrough quests. We wanted a challenge too. The quest you speak of was coordinated, at least on LC, by the guilds so as to avoid conflicts of more than one group trying to do it at a time which would ultimately result in neither being able to complete the quest. That's hardly looking for a cakewalk. It was simply an attempt to void unintended griefing.
Macroing, along with 3rd prty apps most certainly contributed significantly to the demise of AC. Almost anyone, that wasn't a macro monkey, and some there were, will admit that. Being from DT, I would think to you the damage would be even more apparent. I played DT too. Once macroing and XP chains took off there became a huge descrepency between the guilds that did, and the ones that did not. It was a huge imbalance that wrecked DT and it was never the same afterwards.
I am curious what games you think macroing is prevelent in, that are doing aright? I am not naive, and realize it goes on in other games, but it is certainly neither prevelant, nor accepted. At least in any maintream games.
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
EVE has macro miners from what I understand, (mostly by isk sellers) but its not accepted and when caught the accounts are banned. WOW of course has them, both the player base and Blizzard normally shun them and try to eliminate them. Lineage 2 has a lot of people botting, but no one appears very happy about it and frequently points and NCSoft's inability to stop it as a big black mark against the game.
No, I don't think the average player out there approves of macroing and I suspect that might actually be a reason for AC's demise. ( I always wondered why it fell apart so badly, now I guess we have an idea)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Again, I admit macros exsist in other games, but as I stated, they are neither prevalent nor accepted.
In AC they were both.
Don't get me wrong about macroing being the only reason for the demise of AC. It was one of a few things. The others being XP chains, and 3rd party apps. Once that trio was let out of Pandora's box and hit thier stride, the game started to suffer and then the monty haul began.
A good many players left before it got really bad because they were sick of the cheating and disadvantage they were at in relation to the content as Turbine was attempting to keep up with the exploding player levels. That and the exploit early, exploit often and cheat or be left behind mentality that started to permeate the game drove alot of players away as well.
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
The quest you speak of was coordinated, at least on LC, by the guilds so as to avoid conflicts of more than one group trying to do it at a time which would ultimately result in neither being able to complete the quest. That's hardly looking for a cakewalk. It was simply an attempt to void unintended griefing.
Macroing, along with 3rd prty apps most certainly contributed significantly to the demise of AC. Almost anyone, that wasn't a macro monkey, and some there were, will admit that. Being from DT, I would think to you the damage would be even more apparent. I played DT too. Once macroing and XP chains took off there became a huge descrepency between the guilds that did, and the ones that did not. It was a huge imbalance that wrecked DT and it was never the same afterwards.
I am curious what games you think macroing is prevelent in, that are doing aright? I am not naive, and realize it goes on in other games, but it is certainly neither prevelant, nor accepted. At least in any maintream games.
Exactly, they didn't want to actually have the intended challenge for the quest so they used external means to exploit the quest. It was meant for 2 opposing sides to compete. At least I don't discriminate in my application of game mechanic abuse. I bet many people who scheduled the quest also complained about macros and third party applications. Ironically, if they posted on a message board to schedule a 3rd party application was just used.I did not say it did not have a contributive factor. I did say that people who look at macros as a game destroying feature might want to re-evaluate their attitude so that they may enjoy the game.
I did not experience this supposed content drought for everyone but macroed characters. What I did experience was content being released that required full buffing to complete. Because if a quest's difficulty was not geared towards full buffing, it wouldn't be hard enough for those who buffed up. If there was one thing that drove me away from AC, it was the constant required full buffing. Of course, you could normally cut out 4 of the banes, but that could be risky if you encountered a creature you didn't bane for on the way and you might have to start the process again with vitae.
I have always felt that macros just turn casual gamers into "faux hardcore gamers" who play as much as possible. It's not the macroer's that people were trying to keep up with. It was the hardcore gamer who wants to reach the top that people were competing with. Macro's let casual people keep up with the unemployed.
Eve - Mining Macro's, Farming
WoW - Item Farming Macro's, Rampant 3rd Party Software use.
...etc.
In AC they were just more visible to the average gamer since they were combat macro's, there was no such thing as instancing. There were also many useful macro's in AC. Like making alchemy, fletching and cooking macro's.
Comparing communicating with other guilds to coordinate non-conflicting times to do a lengthy quest, to other ingame 3rd party apps that sort loot without having to open a corpse, find things out of radar range which gives you a huge advantage over other players not using it, and crafting macros that make things critical to gameplay like arrows and pots that other players have to do manually is a bit of a stretch and disingenuous.
Using your definition, if I called my friends instead of posting to a message board, would that still be considered using a 3rd party application to communicate our intentions to do a quest.?
That aside, I don't think we are discussing the same quest. The one I am thinking of does not entail opposing sides working against each other thus there was no exploitation of game mechanics. Simply a discussion of times so as to avoid unintended griefing of two guilds trying to complete the quest at the same time.
I did not experience a content drought per se, but what I did notice is as the macros, and XP chains took off, the content released was consistently aimed at higher and higer levels to accomodate these "players" and less and less content aimed at your generic players that didn't utilize these cheats.
The buffing is part of the game IMO and I didn't mind it. The time it took to fully buff yourself is your payment for being a god for 60 minutes. It wasn't that bad in the grand scheme of things...maybe 3-4 minutes to buff with full banes depending on armour. Of course, if you didn't like fully buffing there was always arcane lore to aleviate that, but that oddly enough was considered too much work too, lol.
3rd party app useage is built into the GUI for WoW so not really a valid example, but your whole 2 examples hardly justify your claim of prevalence in all major MMO's. Like I said, I will concede that they exsist in other games, but to claim prevalence in all major MMO's is an exaggeration at best.
Useful or not, any macro in AC was not built into the game and as such was cheating. It is cheating because it gives you an advantage over other players playing within the mechanics of the game.
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
but your rant is obviously without knowledge because most of the apps used for decal simply add functionality that is already available in a majority of today's MMOs. Maybe not so much the xp/hr type thing, but personally it doesn't matter that much to me. But the Mapping function which is something that was sorely needed is something worthwhile. Find It! allows for a loot window much like what you find in WoW. But it filters the things you are not looking for, because in AC you do end up with a lot of useless loot. Plus the Xp chain thing was changed so that it doesn't work like it once did, that was something people took advantage of that was a faulty game design mechanic. That was changed back in '04 or so..
The only bad thing is the player themselves that make and use such programs as UCMs etc. which of course i'm not one of those. I've played AC since April 2000 and with all the new functionality of newer games people that try AC now will be set back quite a bit without some of that which they are familar with.
Sorry you feel such is somehow damaging the game... But honestly they have helped a lot to me. But the cool part right now is how the community is real heavy on cracking down on people that do UCM. Because there are always ways to deal with them our way rather than waiting on an Envoy. :P at least on morningthaw anyway.
But you don't have to use the programs if you don't want to, the only thing that destroys one's experience is other players around them. And that can be said about any game. It really matters not what programs they may be running in the background. lord knows you got plenty of them with WoW and many other games out. but funny how no one complains about those it seems :P
My rant is very well informed thanks.
I played AC from beta until 2005. I saw everything I wrote about happen first hand.
As for what you consider useful. We never needed a 3rd party app to find our way around...spend some time playing the game, exploring, and learning the portal routes. That's what we did in the "olden days" before all you bot babies came along and couldn't be bothered to learn your way around.
The loot program is beyond ridiculous. It takes a whole 10 seconds to open a corpse and check the loot. But it's much easier to have a 3rd party app scan the corpse before you even open it to see if you need to waste your time. Talk about vitual laziness. Again, if you play the game long enough instead of letting a 3rd party program do it, you will quickly learn what is useful and what is junk loot wise.
I am aware the XP chain was changed from how it was, but it's still going on, just a different way than before. And the Partron/vassal system was not a poor mechanic, it was a great game mechanic exploited by unscrupulous, selfish players that cared more about XP/hour than their fellow players or how their actions would affect content.
Some players did alot to ruin the game for others around them, and it was exactly because of these laziness 3rd party programs. I couldn't care less about WoW. They built functionality into their game to accomodate them. AC did not. It was this bastardization by the players that ruined the game for many other players and it had everything to do with the programs they were running.
Unless you're going to try and tell me buffbots and portal bots, to name a couple, are good things. I mean the game not being challenging until level 30+ is a good thing right. That's about how it works out with all those lower levels walking around with full 7's. And why bother learning your way around or the portal system when there's a portal bot you know of that will summon a portal to exactly where you want.
Anyways, I have never, nor will I ever use a 3rd party program. These games are easy enough as it is and I am more than capable of playing the games within the intended framework the devs give us. The only reason to use 3rd party apps IMO is laziness.
Well for those of us that started out in the "olden days" its not to hard to understand that concept of memorizing the portal routes etc. but for new players that aren't use to the "old way" it can be a daunting task. personally i still have a lot of old portal maps in my head, but now they've added a metric butt ton more that are all over the place now to instantly put you any where. they've even moved a lot of the portals that were outside towns right in the middle of towns but in bunkers etc.
With the hundreds to even thousands of corpses a day is a real daunting task now to check for quality of the item as far as salvage and spells you might want/need, AL and resists. I remember the days when all i cared about was simply the AL quality and spells that were on it. that was pretty cut and dry, but now it has developed into a real animal when it comes the nit picky things you have to look for now. so a helpful tool to find stuff is great. and even if i use it and you don't just how detremental is that? it really makes no difference. your argument on that is mute.
Simply put, WoW is one of the most mainsteam games around and it allows 3rd party apps to be designed right into the UI itself. which they like to call "add-ons" and is exactly what decal does for AC. They add on all sorts of functionality that was not original to the games design. But you see no one complaining...
as far as the macroing thing goes that a completely different animal in of itself. and i don't condone it personally. But honestly it has never bothered me if someone else does. Because its so easy to ignore and experience the game the way i want to. Thus this is a massive multiplayer game and you will end up with people of a variety of playstyles. And depending on the policy they take the chance of getting caught and banned, which they do that same thing in AC.
if someone doesn't play just like you and you have a real issue with that, it makes me think you are the selfish one here. you have to understand that different strokes for different folks and there is more than one way to play the fiddle so to speak. you can name call all you'd like but anyone that sits at a game all day is inharently lazy :P if you think by any means that you are gaining some exercise from the extra mouse clicks and time consumption from checking everything out in AC you are sadly mistaken.
This is the modern "lazy" age...
But 3rd party apps had no impact on content, the fact was that many of the players that discovered the greater use of life-magic along with the weapon of choice could greatly increase your effectiveness in the game as a whole. because it was real easy to specialize life magic and unarmed combat plus melee defense. you could easly debuff any creature in the game and practically 1 to 2 hit for kill. that was on the old olthoi nobles that were then 256 level, and was one of few creatures that dropped the best items in the game. This was way before 3rd party apps came along. or even just train life magic for buffs with sword or axe. With level 5 or 6 buffs you would take little to no damage. that tells me there is a design flaw. plus after a good 2 years the game was out, there was hardly any higher level content at all. and higher level players that had been playing for said 2 years which were left with simple grinding and random hunting. Thus they finally added higher level content. But after xp chains is when things really got out of hand on the whole leveling spree. plus with the newest expansion that enabled max level to 275 made the xp curve a bit different as well. i see a large chunk of content is now around the level 70 to 140 range.
There are still lots of the low level stuff to do, but only crazy thing is how the creature spawns are. you can simple step south of nanto and run into level 60+ creatures where this was once a lowbie area. but yet you can run all the way out of your way to Lin which is to the south of nanto and find plenty of lower level creatures to kill. not like a low level player would survive to even get to those though. its things like that which destroy the game for new players. So i can see why one would need level 7 buffs as a low level player.
Another main stream game that people started macroing a lot with was DAoC. People would drop off druids in RvR simply to add buffs to people. I seen some people that would solo a lot in RvR but be using a lot of druid/cleric buffs. because those buffs stay until you die unlike in AC that have a limited time. i'm willing to wager that still goes on in DAoC. And most likely by now they have 3rd party apps for crafting i'm sure. its the innate nature of the beast.
As said for eve for mining etc.
you name the game i can find an app people are using for it. google is so interesting like that.
Just because the usage of 3rd party apps is built into the GUI somehow justifies it? That's so hypocritical and asinine. they were smart enough to do that because they know people will do it anyway.
I've been in AC since July '99, closed beta...I played the first 5 years solid, and now resub for a couple of months a couple of times a year....BUT, I don't really "play" anymore, and haven't since long before I left originally....I DO log in and talk to old friends....But the macros, the "helpers" like Decal, and especially the changed magic system pretty much killed off the questing for me personally.
Originally, AC was a VERY deep, involved, complicated game...The magic system was a pure joy, but lower level mages were very weak...Until they had made the effort and spent the time to learn the magic system and research some decent spells...Melees and mages used to have to work together, but now EVERYONE is a Jack-of-all-trades, and it's impossible to remotely compete as a pute melee, although you can pretty much solo anything as a decent-level mage....THAT is where AC collapsed for me..
The loss of the elegant and deep magic system totally changed the gameplay and pace....I have friends now that start a new character and pass level 100 the FIRST DAY...Many do it in less than a week..That is NOT the way AC was played originally...and it's far less game for having allowed that, in my opinion.
All the portals also hurt the game..We used to be forced to plan long trips and run places, usually finding stunning vistas and glorious battles all the way there and back...There is none of that, now...Just run to the nearest housing portals and warp to any destination...and no one has any idea of places like the Tree House west of Holt, or the Sclavus fort down by Sowato...Or any of the other remarkable and gorgeous places and areas that the game has...
All these changes, for me, caused the loss of the depth and immersion that I look for in a game...Hence my cessation of actually playing.
I still have a lot of old friends there, and I do enjoy my time with them...But I can't really enjoy questing or hunting in AC anymore, and haven't for a long, long time.