SO where is this Coaster king guy flipping burgers now a days lol,,,,, didn't some new game of his tank and btw didn't he sell out his own people in that company ??????..... if I'm getting him confused with some one, then i do apologize for that.......
SO where is this Coaster king guy flipping burgers now a days lol,,,,, didn't some new game of his tank and btw didn't he sell out his own people in that company ??????..... if I'm getting him confused with some one, then i do apologize for that.......
I still don't understand why people act like this fella is some be all end all MMO guru. UO? Yeah it was ok, it's a MUD and Ultima... SWG? How many people on this site rip that game a new one daily? I can't think of a single thing he's done for MMOs then now or between. All he seems to do is say lot of pseudo mumbo jumbo that never comes about.
the nGE yes it is ripped daily...the old game..not so much :P He designed the original...not the NGE
Despite what the old school purists may say or believe, Pre-CU / Pre-NGE was not a great game. It had a ton of issues and was only fun for hardcores. As a matter of fact, there are more subscribers to SWG now than there were before the changes. That to me says a lot.
There's a good reason why they don't revert back to the old system or offer an old school server set.
Oh and as for Raph, he's nothing more than a "Brad McQuaid" of the sci-fi mmo. Old school, outdated, outmoded and generally unwanted in the genre.
Ha jeebus you are a moron.
A: it wasnt for hardcores.
B: SWG Pre Cu had 450k subscribers SWG now has 45k how the hell is that more you imbecile.
C: Koster is a god his vision of mmo's is how games should be virtual worlds not linear grind fests
I still don't understand why people act like this fella is some be all end all MMO guru. UO? Yeah it was ok, it's a MUD and Ultima... SWG? How many people on this site rip that game a new one daily? I can't think of a single thing he's done for MMOs then now or between. All he seems to do is say lot of pseudo mumbo jumbo that never comes about.
the nGE yes it is ripped daily...the old game..not so much :P He designed the original...not the NGE
Despite what the old school purists may say or believe, Pre-CU / Pre-NGE was not a great game. It had a ton of issues and was only fun for hardcores. As a matter of fact, there are more subscribers to SWG now than there were before the changes. That to me says a lot.
There's a good reason why they don't revert back to the old system or offer an old school server set.
Oh and as for Raph, he's nothing more than a "Brad McQuaid" of the sci-fi mmo. Old school, outdated, outmoded and generally unwanted in the genre.
Ha jeebus you are a moron.
A: it wasnt for hardcores.
B: SWG Pre Cu had 450k subscribers SWG now has 45k how the hell is that more you imbecile.
C: Koster is a god his vision of mmo's is how games should be virtual worlds not linear grind fests
No he's not a moron... just wrong. The only thing he's right about is that the game was broken... It was when i beta tested and it was when it got released.
As to Koster.... He's the one that destroyed SWG in the first place by trying something impossible to design correctly.
I still don't understand why people act like this fella is some be all end all MMO guru. UO? Yeah it was ok, it's a MUD and Ultima... SWG? How many people on this site rip that game a new one daily? I can't think of a single thing he's done for MMOs then now or between. All he seems to do is say lot of pseudo mumbo jumbo that never comes about.
the nGE yes it is ripped daily...the old game..not so much :P He designed the original...not the NGE
Despite what the old school purists may say or believe, Pre-CU / Pre-NGE was not a great game. It had a ton of issues and was only fun for hardcores. As a matter of fact, there are more subscribers to SWG now than there were before the changes. That to me says a lot.
There's a good reason why they don't revert back to the old system or offer an old school server set.
Oh and as for Raph, he's nothing more than a "Brad McQuaid" of the sci-fi mmo. Old school, outdated, outmoded and generally unwanted in the genre.
Ha jeebus you are a moron.
A: it wasnt for hardcores.
B: SWG Pre Cu had 450k subscribers SWG now has 45k how the hell is that more you imbecile.
C: Koster is a god his vision of mmo's is how games should be virtual worlds not linear grind fests
The game was hardcore. It had a slow leveling curve. It required adventurers to worry about wounds and battle fatigue, forcing them to rely on entertainers and doctors, for which they had to return to town for. The economy was almost completely dependent on crafters, yet another hardcore component of MMO's, something few casuals get into because of the time investment and the tediousness of the usual crafting mechanics. There are plenty of indicators that the game was not casual and was never even close to being WoW casual which is the standard.
As to the subs, have you ever visited MMOGChart.com? Over it's lifetime, SWG never exceeded 300,000 active subs, about 25,000 less than EQ2. SWG currently is tied with EQ2 in market share, 1.4%. There are no hard numbers listed, but I do believe that SOE released numbers for EQ2 recently that put it around 250,000, hence SWG should be pulling around the same numbers if they equal market share.
The game is gaining popularity now that it is more Star Warsy with its faster and more visceral combat mechanics and streamlined classes. Adventurers are no longer completely dependent on crafters, there are lots of decent drops in the game now, they've even added raiding elements to the game.
You hardcore freaks think you make the genre, but you don't. The game has come close to completely recovering from your mass exodus. As more people get tired of WoW, they'll start looking at other casual friendly games, such as SWG and it will grow even more.
This is the reason why they will never go back to a classic setting. They don't need you people, for every one of you, there are 10's of casuals ready to fill your spots.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
I still don't understand why people act like this fella is some be all end all MMO guru. UO? Yeah it was ok, it's a MUD and Ultima... SWG? How many people on this site rip that game a new one daily? I can't think of a single thing he's done for MMOs then now or between. All he seems to do is say lot of pseudo mumbo jumbo that never comes about.
the nGE yes it is ripped daily...the old game..not so much :P He designed the original...not the NGE
Despite what the old school purists may say or believe, Pre-CU / Pre-NGE was not a great game. It had a ton of issues and was only fun for hardcores. As a matter of fact, there are more subscribers to SWG now than there were before the changes. That to me says a lot.
There's a good reason why they don't revert back to the old system or offer an old school server set.
Oh and as for Raph, he's nothing more than a "Brad McQuaid" of the sci-fi mmo. Old school, outdated, outmoded and generally unwanted in the genre.
Ha jeebus you are a moron.
A: it wasnt for hardcores.
B: SWG Pre Cu had 450k subscribers SWG now has 45k how the hell is that more you imbecile.
C: Koster is a god his vision of mmo's is how games should be virtual worlds not linear grind fests
The game was hardcore. It had a slow leveling curve. It required adventurers to worry about wounds and battle fatigue, forcing them to rely on entertainers and doctors, for which they had to return to town for. The economy was almost completely dependent on crafters, yet another hardcore component of MMO's, something few casuals get into because of the time investment and the tediousness of the usual crafting mechanics. There are plenty of indicators that the game was not casual and was never even close to being WoW casual which is the standard.
As to the subs, have you ever visited MMOGChart.com? Over it's lifetime, SWG never exceeded 300,000 active subs, about 25,000 less than EQ2. SWG currently is tied with EQ2 in market share, 1.4%. There are no hard numbers listed, but I do believe that SOE released numbers for EQ2 recently that put it around 250,000, hence SWG should be pulling around the same numbers if they equal market share.
The game is gaining popularity now that it is more Star Warsy with its faster and more visceral combat mechanics and streamlined classes. Adventurers are no longer completely dependent on crafters, there are lots of decent drops in the game now, they've even added raiding elements to the game.
You hardcore freaks think you make the genre, but you don't. The game has come close to completely recovering from your mass exodus. As more people get tired of WoW, they'll start looking at other casual friendly games, such as SWG and it will grow even more.
This is the reason why they will never go back to a classic setting. They don't need you people, for every one of you, there are 10's of casuals ready to fill your spots.
Pre-cu was the most casual ffriendly mmo made to date. You just spent hours figuring out why something didnt work or do what the description says.
See you in the dream.. The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
I still don't understand why people act like this fella is some be all end all MMO guru. UO? Yeah it was ok, it's a MUD and Ultima... SWG? How many people on this site rip that game a new one daily? I can't think of a single thing he's done for MMOs then now or between. All he seems to do is say lot of pseudo mumbo jumbo that never comes about.
the nGE yes it is ripped daily...the old game..not so much :P He designed the original...not the NGE
Despite what the old school purists may say or believe, Pre-CU / Pre-NGE was not a great game. It had a ton of issues and was only fun for hardcores. As a matter of fact, there are more subscribers to SWG now than there were before the changes. That to me says a lot.
There's a good reason why they don't revert back to the old system or offer an old school server set.
Oh and as for Raph, he's nothing more than a "Brad McQuaid" of the sci-fi mmo. Old school, outdated, outmoded and generally unwanted in the genre.
Ha jeebus you are a moron.
A: it wasnt for hardcores.
B: SWG Pre Cu had 450k subscribers SWG now has 45k how the hell is that more you imbecile.
C: Koster is a god his vision of mmo's is how games should be virtual worlds not linear grind fests
The game was hardcore. It had a slow leveling curve. It required adventurers to worry about wounds and battle fatigue, forcing them to rely on entertainers and doctors, for which they had to return to town for. The economy was almost completely dependent on crafters, yet another hardcore component of MMO's, something few casuals get into because of the time investment and the tediousness of the usual crafting mechanics. There are plenty of indicators that the game was not casual and was never even close to being WoW casual which is the standard.
Slow leveling curve =/= hardcore. The original design focus on building a sense of community (much like real world), so it isn't the normal game design, but a design for a virtual world to exist in a form of game. This idea isn't "hardcore", nor is it hard to understand. SWG was my first MMO, and before that I never knew of MMO genre, so how come I pick it up and love it? (I'm pretty sure I'm not a "hardcore" player.) And guess what? For many SWG was their first MMO also. So what you mentioned as "hardcore" (battle fatigue, wounds, crafter-based economy, etc...) are the exact strong point of the old SWG.
By the way, WoW isn't the standard, it is the exception in MMORPG. But due to its success, people believe that it should be the standard. As for WoW being casual, that's what they were going for. SWG was NOT going in the same direction, nor does it NEED to head in the same direction as WoW.
As to the subs, have you ever visited MMOGChart.com? Over it's lifetime, SWG never exceeded 300,000 active subs, about 25,000 less than EQ2. SWG currently is tied with EQ2 in market share, 1.4%. There are no hard numbers listed, but I do believe that SOE released numbers for EQ2 recently that put it around 250,000, hence SWG should be pulling around the same numbers if they equalmarket share.
Your data is a bit outdated, MMOGChart.com, even though the site appeared to be updated with some new posts, has not update its information of the subscription. The total subscription charts on the site only goes to July of 06. This site, MMOGData.VOIG.com, the person who runs it uses the data form MMOGChart.com have earlier, and with his own sources, have continue the work of MMORChart.com when it wasn't updating with new information. So many have see this website as the one with newer information than MMOGChart.com. And according to this site, SWG has only 0.15% of market share, EQ has 0.38%, and EQII has 0.52%.
And according the MMOGData.VOIG.com, the total subscription (estimated) of SWG was just above 54k in July of 07, and even though the trend seems to be rising, but there are too little information to be sure of the actual subscription number. But trust me, it isn't anywhere NEAR 250,000.
The game is gaining popularity now that it is more Star Warsy with its faster and more visceral combat mechanics and streamlined classes. Adventurers are no longer completely dependent on crafters, there are lots of decent drops in the game now, they've even added raiding elements to the game.
Again, the reason for the mass exodus during the NGE (and trust me, it happened), was the exact reason you believe the game is gaining popularity. When they took away the interdependency between each player, they lost the focus of the original design, and the game itself.
Copying the methods of other more successful games will not save this one. The game was changed once too many while the players were playing and paying for it. That was a bad move by SOE, so don't tell people that they are gaining popularity because, as far as I know, most MMO players consider SWG right now as a piece of junk (and that's putting it in a nicer way...)
You hardcore freaks think you make the genre, but you don't. The game has come close to completely recovering from your mass exodus. As more people get tired of WoW, they'll start looking at other casual friendly games, such as SWG and it will grow even more.
Again, get your fact straight and data updated before stating something that is SO FAR OFF of the truth that is known by many - SWG was mortally wounded by CU, and destroyed by NGE. Even though there are those who like the present WoW-in-space style, it doesn't take a genius to know that SWG will never recover.
This is the reason why they will never go back to a classic setting. They don't need you people, for every one of you, there are 10's of casuals ready to fill your spots.
Opinion, not fact, so don't even care to dispute it...
I still don't understand why people act like this fella is some be all end all MMO guru. UO? Yeah it was ok, it's a MUD and Ultima... SWG? How many people on this site rip that game a new one daily? I can't think of a single thing he's done for MMOs then now or between. All he seems to do is say lot of pseudo mumbo jumbo that never comes about.
To some he's a gaming god..to me he's a telentless old hack who's one gem happened eons ago in gaming terms much like Brad Mquaid and his "vision" these people need to realise that gaming and MMO's in particular have moved on from thier time
How exactly have they moved on? Casual everquest?..super casual everquest? super super casual everquest?
Like it or not "casual" gamer/gaming is here to stay.."hardcore(for want of a better word" gaming is dead..take a look at Vanguard the last basttion of hardcore MMO gaming
WOW is a magpie that borrows everything from the genre and makes it shine with a gleam unseen in this genre yes it has hardcore elements for the old school but on the whole its a game that appeals to the newer/casual gamer the ones now who are buying the Wii in droves whilst the more (dare i say it)"hardcore) 360 and PS3 struggle to sell.
We'll not see a great change in the template set down by WOW..the moneymen will see to that,they will be quest and level driven games that come out from now on sure there'll be the odd diversion along the way but for the forseeable future MMO's will be a variation on a theme,a theme that at the moment trumpets something like 10 million players.
Gaming is changing and we and i count myself in this may not like it (30 years of gaming makes me old school i think),less and less new and exciting ideas are coming out across all formats games are not made for love anymore they're made only for a companys bottom line at the end of the tax year
I'd almost agree with you except that the MMO genre is becoming saturated. I believe that as more and more MMO's are released the "niche" game will be vital for it's longevity. How that game chooses to be "niche" will vary, but I think that the "hardcore" game will certainly have it's place as there seems to be a decent ammount of people looking for it.
As much as I hate the thought of it I have to awknowledge the fact that console MMO's are definetly coming. As all of the big boys like SOE will be focused on those platforms it'll be the smaller, independant developers that will be key to the survivability of PC based MMO's. I've found that it's those independant developers that are much more willing to be creative and try to deliever something unique.
I still don't understand why people act like this fella is some be all end all MMO guru. UO? Yeah it was ok, it's a MUD and Ultima... SWG? How many people on this site rip that game a new one daily? I can't think of a single thing he's done for MMOs then now or between. All he seems to do is say lot of pseudo mumbo jumbo that never comes about.
the nGE yes it is ripped daily...the old game..not so much :P He designed the original...not the NGE
Despite what the old school purists may say or believe, Pre-CU / Pre-NGE was not a great game. It had a ton of issues and was only fun for hardcores. As a matter of fact, there are more subscribers to SWG now than there were before the changes. That to me says a lot.
There's a good reason why they don't revert back to the old system or offer an old school server set.
Oh and as for Raph, he's nothing more than a "Brad McQuaid" of the sci-fi mmo. Old school, outdated, outmoded and generally unwanted in the genre.
Actually before the changes, most if not all the servers had high populations. Now many of them are nearly deserted as cries for server merges or free character transfers continue on the official boards. Smedley himself acknowledged the population problems at the last round of summits and said that he would fast track mergers. That was about a year ago I think...
As for the ton of issues, agreed. This was highlighted by beta testers who recommended strongly that the game was not ready for release. They were ignored. After release, the players and devs worked together for months to fix many of the bugs and issues identified. All that work was scrapped, however, when management decided to turn SWG into a clone of WoW instead of fixing what they had. The trouble with this plan was that the WoW clonage was more bugged than the original game. On top of that, they chucked out everyone's progress. Not a really proud moment in the history of MMO gaming. And a good explanation of why many of the servers are, and remain, nearly empty.
I still don't understand why people act like this fella is some be all end all MMO guru. UO? Yeah it was ok, it's a MUD and Ultima... SWG? How many people on this site rip that game a new one daily? I can't think of a single thing he's done for MMOs then now or between. All he seems to do is say lot of pseudo mumbo jumbo that never comes about.
the nGE yes it is ripped daily...the old game..not so much :P He designed the original...not the NGE
Despite what the old school purists may say or believe, Pre-CU / Pre-NGE was not a great game. It had a ton of issues and was only fun for hardcores. As a matter of fact, there are more subscribers to SWG now than there were before the changes. That to me says a lot.
There's a good reason why they don't revert back to the old system or offer an old school server set.
Oh and as for Raph, he's nothing more than a "Brad McQuaid" of the sci-fi mmo. Old school, outdated, outmoded and generally unwanted in the genre.
Ha jeebus you are a moron.
A: it wasnt for hardcores.
B: SWG Pre Cu had 450k subscribers SWG now has 45k how the hell is that more you imbecile.
C: Koster is a god his vision of mmo's is how games should be virtual worlds not linear grind fests
The game was hardcore. It had a slow leveling curve. It required adventurers to worry about wounds and battle fatigue, forcing them to rely on entertainers and doctors, for which they had to return to town for. The economy was almost completely dependent on crafters, yet another hardcore component of MMO's, something few casuals get into because of the time investment and the tediousness of the usual crafting mechanics. There are plenty of indicators that the game was not casual and was never even close to being WoW casual which is the standard.
As to the subs, have you ever visited MMOGChart.com? Over it's lifetime, SWG never exceeded 300,000 active subs, about 25,000 less than EQ2. SWG currently is tied with EQ2 in market share, 1.4%. There are no hard numbers listed, but I do believe that SOE released numbers for EQ2 recently that put it around 250,000, hence SWG should be pulling around the same numbers if they equal market share.
The game is gaining popularity now that it is more Star Warsy with its faster and more visceral combat mechanics and streamlined classes. Adventurers are no longer completely dependent on crafters, there are lots of decent drops in the game now, they've even added raiding elements to the game.
You hardcore freaks think you make the genre, but you don't. The game has come close to completely recovering from your mass exodus. As more people get tired of WoW, they'll start looking at other casual friendly games, such as SWG and it will grow even more.
This is the reason why they will never go back to a classic setting. They don't need you people, for every one of you, there are 10's of casuals ready to fill your spots.
SWG isn't a casual game now. The grind to level 90 is one of the most boring grinds in any game out there right now, Asian MMO's included. They switched the game to solo quest-based advancement and forgot to have a regular quest line past 50. In order to be any decent at PvP you need all the high-end drops which requires groups of people who are willing to share loot but also requires you to go on raids multiple times cause nobody will help you if you won't help them.
And if you seriously think the population is better you must be completely blind or playing on Bria. Go hit a server like Naritus and ask around about how the population is doing. My old server saw a massive chunk of the Imperial population just transfer over to Chilastra.
PvP is about the only thing worthwhile doing, besides collections which I guess you'd enjoy if accounting makes you feel tingly in your special place or the thought of placing something on a shelf and then putting it back on the floor over and over again sounds like a wild time.
Its still laggy and buggy. I convinced 8 of my friends to join SWG after the NGE and every single one quit before hitting level 50. They still play WoW. They all said they would have stayed if the game wasn't so laggy and buggy (same complaint as always) and if it was such a boring solo grind. They said it sucked that they couldn't play together because of the massive XP penalties for grouping. One of them summed it up best when he said that this game was like playing a crappy version of KOTOR in that you're equally alone.
Also I might add, if you didn't want a "hardcore" game that had interdependancy on other players, then why were you playing this one? Go back to Counterstrike.
Fozzie22, I'd almost agree with you except that the MMO genre is becoming saturated. I believe that as more and more MMO's are released the "niche" game will be vital for it's longevity. How that game chooses to be "niche" will vary, but I think that the "hardcore" game will certainly have it's place as there seems to be a decent ammount of people looking for it. As much as I hate the thought of it I have to awknowledge the fact that console MMO's are definetly coming. As all of the big boys like SOE will be focused on those platforms it'll be the smaller, independant developers that will be key to the survivability of PC based MMO's. I've found that it's those independant developers that are much more willing to be creative and try to deliever something unique.
I dont in anyway disagree with you Suvroc..but these niche games be made on a much lower budget i would assume and ergo the quality we've hoped/come to expect wont be there..its sad but console MMOs are the way its going to go and no i dont like it but the sad truth is i stopped hoping for a ground breaking gaming vision a long time ago.
Rez.. a wonderful game that about 20 people bought phsyconauts(sp?) suffered pretty much the same fate great original games but the masses wont buy them they'd sooner buy football/golf/platform/FPS 15 or whatever i find it all a bit depressing.
So if the moneymen want a slice of this pie in the MMO genre they'll want one that'll pay the bucks and that at this moment in time will almost stifle any originality in the market and i'll say it again i hate it i want originality and want something new but its not going to be caterfore (seemingly) by this generation of games (and yes i'm looking at the bigger picture) the question then is people like myself and doubtless other will they stay around for the next something new? i really dont know i suppose only time will tell.
*snip* This is the reason why they will never go back to a classic setting. They don't need you people, for every one of you, there are 10's of casuals ready to fill your spots.
There are bigger reasons than the one you stated that SOE will never revert to any of the Pre-NGE systems, or even a single Pre-CU / Pre-NGE server. But that's another thread in itself.
As for the comment, "They don't need you people, for every one of you, there are 10's of casuals ready to fill your spots." Jeez, are you using a Smed Quote Book? That was SOE / LA's intent was getting rid of existing players to only be replaced with a rampaging horde of new players. Sorry buddy, it didn't happen. Well, part of it did. A whole boatload of us left, most of that 250k-300k playerbase left. But were NEVER replaced.
If 10 or so casuals really were replacing every veteran that quit, why do you have posts like this at the official forums?
You have players posting in those threads (and whatever I didn't put up for an example) lamenting on the small playerbase. And it really still sucks for the existing veterans that are there still, who saw the number of players just go *POOF*... gone. And never fully replaced, not even halfway.
The evidence is also in-game. There are lots of ghost towns... player cities that are just "still there" but no players out and about. You will see it 2 forms in general.
a) Hate filled signs towars SOE / SWG by disgruntled players who left... and the signs are still like that.
b) Old crafter / vendor housing. You will see the signs describing item stats or message formats describing their products in a way that sounds alien to you if you only played the NGE. That crafter has been gone a LONG time. To me, that is one of the saddest indicators.
The hubs of the game are desolate of players. I laugh when I hear comments of "Well, everyone's at Kashyyyk or Mustafar now!"
Bwuahahahahaha!!! Pre-NGE, we had tons of people on Corellia, Naboo, and Tatooine. We had more people inside a single cantina in Coronet, Theed, Mos Eisley, and Bestine than any city / town / establishment currently in SWG. What was even better, was we still had enough players for numerous groups (like Hunting Groups) in places like Lok, Dantooine, Yavin IV, and most especially, Dathomir.
But all that is gone now.
And never replaced.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
*snip* This is the reason why they will never go back to a classic setting. They don't need you people, for every one of you, there are 10's of casuals ready to fill your spots.
There are bigger reasons than the one you stated that SOE will never revert to any of the Pre-NGE systems, or even a single Pre-CU / Pre-NGE server. But that's another thread in itself.
As for the comment, "They don't need you people, for every one of you, there are 10's of casuals ready to fill your spots." Jeez, are you using a Smed Quote Book? That was SOE / LA's intent was getting rid of existing players to only be replaced with a rampaging horde of new players. Sorry buddy, it didn't happen. Well, part of it did. A whole boatload of us left, most of that 250k-300k playerbase left. But were NEVER replaced.
If 10 or so casuals really were replacing every veteran that quit, why do you have posts like this at the official forums?
You have players posting in those threads (and whatever I didn't put up for an example) lamenting on the small playerbase. And it really still sucks for the existing veterans that are there still, who saw the number of players just go *POOF*... gone. And never fully replaced, not even halfway.
The evidence is also in-game. There are lots of ghost towns... player cities that are just "still there" but no players out and about. You will see it 2 forms in general.
a) Hate filled signs towars SOE / SWG by disgruntled players who left... and the signs are still like that.
b) Old crafter / vendor housing. You will see the signs describing item stats or message formats describing their products in a way that sounds alien to you if you only played the NGE. That crafter has been gone a LONG time. To me, that is one of the saddest indicators.
The hubs of the game are desolate of players. I laugh when I hear comments of "Well, everyone's at Kashyyyk or Mustafar now!"
Bwuahahahahaha!!! Pre-NGE, we had tons of people on Corellia, Naboo, and Tatooine. We had more people inside a single cantina in Coronet, Theed, Mos Eisley, and Bestine than any city / town / establishment currently in SWG. What was even better, was we still had enough players for numerous groups (like Hunting Groups) in places like Lok, Dantooine, Yavin IV, and most especially, Dathomir.
But all that is gone now.
And never replaced.
they need us and want us back.
that's why they will rollback to pre-cu or shutdown. we win in any case.
In reference to the guy whos new mmo just flopped. Yeah you must be thinking of Mcquaid. Never heard of Koster games released while still in late alpha/early beta, lol. Also Mcquaid sold his company to sony, shortly after Vanguard's launch.
Keeping my eye on Metaplace. Hoping that a game will be created with it that is close to what pre-cu was. From the ideas I've seen posted on the Metaplace forums, I think that a game with some of the pre-cu features (such as lack of levels) is very possible. Will be interesting to see how it works in the longrun.
As for the person who asked if Koster was going to hire him to make MMO. Nope, just going to provide you with the tools and if your MMO starts making you money (or gets too big), you get to pay Koster to use his servers.
As for WoW being the perfect "casual" game with pre-cu being totally hardcore, things I could do in pre-cu that are more difficult on WoW:
-- pop in for a few minutes, do a couple of missions or craft or entertain; in WoW, I have to hunt down quest givers, travel to the location of the quest, and find an area that meets my current level, spending huge amounts of time walking to locations only to have to rewalk it if I die (until I activate fp or get to level 40 to get a mount)
-- find a DECENT guild easily, all it took was hanging out in a cantina and conversing with people...every guild I was a part of in SWG for any amount of time was a result of meeting the guild leader while performing in a cantina....and notice the emphasis on decent; in WoW it is extremely easy to find a guild, someone is spamming for people to join their guild/sign their charter all the time but every guild I ever belonged to in WoW was pretty much worthless (see article in Games for Windows magazine about guilds, the writer hit it dead-on)
-- rejoin my in-game buddies if they or I had not played for a while; in WoW (or any other game with levels), if one is unable to play for a bit, one finds him/herself out-leveled by the people he/she once played with which means grouping with them keeps them from getting xp and significantly lowers the xp of the lower level player
-- group with people in all stages of character development without negative impacts (well, except dying more frequently if one went as a noob to a more difficult planet or POI with the elite profession characters); in WoW (and other leveled games), people only want to group with those near or above their own level
and as for casual...how much more "casual" can you get that hanging around a cantina visiting with people?
The cool thing about SWG was its appeal from casual (pick a prof, grab a weapon, and go kill stuff....no armor, no buffs...the way I played for the first couple of months) to hardcore (find the best "template," carry a variety of weapons with different damages, know where to find the best buffs/who makes the best supplies, spend time looking for the best resources, study guides to one's profession on the internet....). It had stuff for both the social gamer and the combat gamer. The gamer it didn't appeal to was one who wants to solo their way through a MMO via a grindfest with uber-loot to "end-game" short of engaging in PvP.
Keeping my eye on Metaplace. Hoping that a game will be created with it that is close to what pre-cu was. From the ideas I've seen posted on the Metaplace forums, I think that a game with some of the pre-cu features (such as lack of levels) is very possible. Will be interesting to see how it works in the longrun. As for the person who asked if Koster was going to hire him to make MMO. Nope, just going to provide you with the tools and if your MMO starts making you money (or gets too big), you get to pay Koster to use his servers. As for WoW being the perfect "casual" game with pre-cu being totally hardcore, things I could do in pre-cu that are more difficult on WoW: -- pop in for a few minutes, do a couple of missions or craft or entertain; in WoW, I have to hunt down quest givers, travel to the location of the quest, and find an area that meets my current level, spending huge amounts of time walking to locations only to have to rewalk it if I die (until I activate fp or get to level 40 to get a mount) -- find a DECENT guild easily, all it took was hanging out in a cantina and conversing with people...every guild I was a part of in SWG for any amount of time was a result of meeting the guild leader while performing in a cantina....and notice the emphasis on decent; in WoW it is extremely easy to find a guild, someone is spamming for people to join their guild/sign their charter all the time but every guild I ever belonged to in WoW was pretty much worthless (see article in Games for Windows magazine about guilds, the writer hit it dead-on) -- rejoin my in-game buddies if they or I had not played for a while; in WoW (or any other game with levels), if one is unable to play for a bit, one finds him/herself out-leveled by the people he/she once played with which means grouping with them keeps them from getting xp and significantly lowers the xp of the lower level player -- group with people in all stages of character development without negative impacts (well, except dying more frequently if one went as a noob to a more difficult planet or POI with the elite profession characters); in WoW (and other leveled games), people only want to group with those near or above their own level and as for casual...how much more "casual" can you get that hanging around a cantina visiting with people? The cool thing about SWG was its appeal from casual (pick a prof, grab a weapon, and go kill stuff....no armor, no buffs...the way I played for the first couple of months) to hardcore (find the best "template," carry a variety of weapons with different damages, know where to find the best buffs/who makes the best supplies, spend time looking for the best resources, study guides to one's profession on the internet....). It had stuff for both the social gamer and the combat gamer. The gamer it didn't appeal to was one who wants to solo their way through a MMO via a grindfest with uber-loot to "end-game" short of engaging in PvP.
That last paragraph sums it up quite nicely. There was something for every playstyle.
Comments
The game was Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
The game was Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
sorry all my bad i retract that statement
the nGE yes it is ripped daily...the old game..not so much :P He designed the original...not the NGE
Despite what the old school purists may say or believe, Pre-CU / Pre-NGE was not a great game. It had a ton of issues and was only fun for hardcores. As a matter of fact, there are more subscribers to SWG now than there were before the changes. That to me says a lot.
There's a good reason why they don't revert back to the old system or offer an old school server set.
Oh and as for Raph, he's nothing more than a "Brad McQuaid" of the sci-fi mmo. Old school, outdated, outmoded and generally unwanted in the genre.
Ha jeebus you are a moron.A: it wasnt for hardcores.
B: SWG Pre Cu had 450k subscribers SWG now has 45k how the hell is that more you imbecile.
C: Koster is a god his vision of mmo's is how games should be virtual worlds not linear grind fests
the nGE yes it is ripped daily...the old game..not so much :P He designed the original...not the NGE
Despite what the old school purists may say or believe, Pre-CU / Pre-NGE was not a great game. It had a ton of issues and was only fun for hardcores. As a matter of fact, there are more subscribers to SWG now than there were before the changes. That to me says a lot.
There's a good reason why they don't revert back to the old system or offer an old school server set.
Oh and as for Raph, he's nothing more than a "Brad McQuaid" of the sci-fi mmo. Old school, outdated, outmoded and generally unwanted in the genre.
Ha jeebus you are a moron.A: it wasnt for hardcores.
B: SWG Pre Cu had 450k subscribers SWG now has 45k how the hell is that more you imbecile.
C: Koster is a god his vision of mmo's is how games should be virtual worlds not linear grind fests
No he's not a moron... just wrong. The only thing he's right about is that the game was broken... It was when i beta tested and it was when it got released.
As to Koster.... He's the one that destroyed SWG in the first place by trying something impossible to design correctly.
eqnext.wikia.com
the nGE yes it is ripped daily...the old game..not so much :P He designed the original...not the NGE
Despite what the old school purists may say or believe, Pre-CU / Pre-NGE was not a great game. It had a ton of issues and was only fun for hardcores. As a matter of fact, there are more subscribers to SWG now than there were before the changes. That to me says a lot.
There's a good reason why they don't revert back to the old system or offer an old school server set.
Oh and as for Raph, he's nothing more than a "Brad McQuaid" of the sci-fi mmo. Old school, outdated, outmoded and generally unwanted in the genre.
Ha jeebus you are a moron.A: it wasnt for hardcores.
B: SWG Pre Cu had 450k subscribers SWG now has 45k how the hell is that more you imbecile.
C: Koster is a god his vision of mmo's is how games should be virtual worlds not linear grind fests
The game was hardcore. It had a slow leveling curve. It required adventurers to worry about wounds and battle fatigue, forcing them to rely on entertainers and doctors, for which they had to return to town for. The economy was almost completely dependent on crafters, yet another hardcore component of MMO's, something few casuals get into because of the time investment and the tediousness of the usual crafting mechanics. There are plenty of indicators that the game was not casual and was never even close to being WoW casual which is the standard.
As to the subs, have you ever visited MMOGChart.com? Over it's lifetime, SWG never exceeded 300,000 active subs, about 25,000 less than EQ2. SWG currently is tied with EQ2 in market share, 1.4%. There are no hard numbers listed, but I do believe that SOE released numbers for EQ2 recently that put it around 250,000, hence SWG should be pulling around the same numbers if they equal market share.
The game is gaining popularity now that it is more Star Warsy with its faster and more visceral combat mechanics and streamlined classes. Adventurers are no longer completely dependent on crafters, there are lots of decent drops in the game now, they've even added raiding elements to the game.
You hardcore freaks think you make the genre, but you don't. The game has come close to completely recovering from your mass exodus. As more people get tired of WoW, they'll start looking at other casual friendly games, such as SWG and it will grow even more.
This is the reason why they will never go back to a classic setting. They don't need you people, for every one of you, there are 10's of casuals ready to fill your spots.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
the nGE yes it is ripped daily...the old game..not so much :P He designed the original...not the NGE
Despite what the old school purists may say or believe, Pre-CU / Pre-NGE was not a great game. It had a ton of issues and was only fun for hardcores. As a matter of fact, there are more subscribers to SWG now than there were before the changes. That to me says a lot.
There's a good reason why they don't revert back to the old system or offer an old school server set.
Oh and as for Raph, he's nothing more than a "Brad McQuaid" of the sci-fi mmo. Old school, outdated, outmoded and generally unwanted in the genre.
Ha jeebus you are a moron.A: it wasnt for hardcores.
B: SWG Pre Cu had 450k subscribers SWG now has 45k how the hell is that more you imbecile.
C: Koster is a god his vision of mmo's is how games should be virtual worlds not linear grind fests
The game was hardcore. It had a slow leveling curve. It required adventurers to worry about wounds and battle fatigue, forcing them to rely on entertainers and doctors, for which they had to return to town for. The economy was almost completely dependent on crafters, yet another hardcore component of MMO's, something few casuals get into because of the time investment and the tediousness of the usual crafting mechanics. There are plenty of indicators that the game was not casual and was never even close to being WoW casual which is the standard.
As to the subs, have you ever visited MMOGChart.com? Over it's lifetime, SWG never exceeded 300,000 active subs, about 25,000 less than EQ2. SWG currently is tied with EQ2 in market share, 1.4%. There are no hard numbers listed, but I do believe that SOE released numbers for EQ2 recently that put it around 250,000, hence SWG should be pulling around the same numbers if they equal market share.
The game is gaining popularity now that it is more Star Warsy with its faster and more visceral combat mechanics and streamlined classes. Adventurers are no longer completely dependent on crafters, there are lots of decent drops in the game now, they've even added raiding elements to the game.
You hardcore freaks think you make the genre, but you don't. The game has come close to completely recovering from your mass exodus. As more people get tired of WoW, they'll start looking at other casual friendly games, such as SWG and it will grow even more.
This is the reason why they will never go back to a classic setting. They don't need you people, for every one of you, there are 10's of casuals ready to fill your spots.
Pre-cu was the most casual ffriendly mmo made to date. You just spent hours figuring out why something didnt work or do what the description says.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
the nGE yes it is ripped daily...the old game..not so much :P He designed the original...not the NGE
Despite what the old school purists may say or believe, Pre-CU / Pre-NGE was not a great game. It had a ton of issues and was only fun for hardcores. As a matter of fact, there are more subscribers to SWG now than there were before the changes. That to me says a lot.
There's a good reason why they don't revert back to the old system or offer an old school server set.
Oh and as for Raph, he's nothing more than a "Brad McQuaid" of the sci-fi mmo. Old school, outdated, outmoded and generally unwanted in the genre.
Ha jeebus you are a moron.A: it wasnt for hardcores.
B: SWG Pre Cu had 450k subscribers SWG now has 45k how the hell is that more you imbecile.
C: Koster is a god his vision of mmo's is how games should be virtual worlds not linear grind fests
The game was hardcore. It had a slow leveling curve. It required adventurers to worry about wounds and battle fatigue, forcing them to rely on entertainers and doctors, for which they had to return to town for. The economy was almost completely dependent on crafters, yet another hardcore component of MMO's, something few casuals get into because of the time investment and the tediousness of the usual crafting mechanics. There are plenty of indicators that the game was not casual and was never even close to being WoW casual which is the standard.
Slow leveling curve =/= hardcore. The original design focus on building a sense of community (much like real world), so it isn't the normal game design, but a design for a virtual world to exist in a form of game. This idea isn't "hardcore", nor is it hard to understand. SWG was my first MMO, and before that I never knew of MMO genre, so how come I pick it up and love it? (I'm pretty sure I'm not a "hardcore" player.) And guess what? For many SWG was their first MMO also. So what you mentioned as "hardcore" (battle fatigue, wounds, crafter-based economy, etc...) are the exact strong point of the old SWG.
By the way, WoW isn't the standard, it is the exception in MMORPG. But due to its success, people believe that it should be the standard. As for WoW being casual, that's what they were going for. SWG was NOT going in the same direction, nor does it NEED to head in the same direction as WoW.
As to the subs, have you ever visited MMOGChart.com? Over it's lifetime, SWG never exceeded 300,000 active subs, about 25,000 less than EQ2. SWG currently is tied with EQ2 in market share, 1.4%. There are no hard numbers listed, but I do believe that SOE released numbers for EQ2 recently that put it around 250,000, hence SWG should be pulling around the same numbers if they equalmarket share.
Your data is a bit outdated, MMOGChart.com, even though the site appeared to be updated with some new posts, has not update its information of the subscription. The total subscription charts on the site only goes to July of 06. This site, MMOGData.VOIG.com, the person who runs it uses the data form MMOGChart.com have earlier, and with his own sources, have continue the work of MMORChart.com when it wasn't updating with new information. So many have see this website as the one with newer information than MMOGChart.com. And according to this site, SWG has only 0.15% of market share, EQ has 0.38%, and EQII has 0.52%.
And according the MMOGData.VOIG.com, the total subscription (estimated) of SWG was just above 54k in July of 07, and even though the trend seems to be rising, but there are too little information to be sure of the actual subscription number. But trust me, it isn't anywhere NEAR 250,000.
The game is gaining popularity now that it is more Star Warsy with its faster and more visceral combat mechanics and streamlined classes. Adventurers are no longer completely dependent on crafters, there are lots of decent drops in the game now, they've even added raiding elements to the game.
Again, the reason for the mass exodus during the NGE (and trust me, it happened), was the exact reason you believe the game is gaining popularity. When they took away the interdependency between each player, they lost the focus of the original design, and the game itself.
Copying the methods of other more successful games will not save this one. The game was changed once too many while the players were playing and paying for it. That was a bad move by SOE, so don't tell people that they are gaining popularity because, as far as I know, most MMO players consider SWG right now as a piece of junk (and that's putting it in a nicer way...)
You hardcore freaks think you make the genre, but you don't. The game has come close to completely recovering from your mass exodus. As more people get tired of WoW, they'll start looking at other casual friendly games, such as SWG and it will grow even more.
Again, get your fact straight and data updated before stating something that is SO FAR OFF of the truth that is known by many - SWG was mortally wounded by CU, and destroyed by NGE. Even though there are those who like the present WoW-in-space style, it doesn't take a genius to know that SWG will never recover.
This is the reason why they will never go back to a classic setting. They don't need you people, for every one of you, there are 10's of casuals ready to fill your spots.
Opinion, not fact, so don't even care to dispute it...
Current MMO: FFXIV:ARR
Past MMO: Way too many (P2P and F2P)
To some he's a gaming god..to me he's a telentless old hack who's one gem happened eons ago in gaming terms much like Brad Mquaid and his "vision" these people need to realise that gaming and MMO's in particular have moved on from thier time
Like it or not "casual" gamer/gaming is here to stay.."hardcore(for want of a better word" gaming is dead..take a look at Vanguard the last basttion of hardcore MMO gamingHow exactly have they moved on? Casual everquest?..super casual everquest? super super casual everquest?
WOW is a magpie that borrows everything from the genre and makes it shine with a gleam unseen in this genre yes it has hardcore elements for the old school but on the whole its a game that appeals to the newer/casual gamer the ones now who are buying the Wii in droves whilst the more (dare i say it)"hardcore) 360 and PS3 struggle to sell.
We'll not see a great change in the template set down by WOW..the moneymen will see to that,they will be quest and level driven games that come out from now on sure there'll be the odd diversion along the way but for the forseeable future MMO's will be a variation on a theme,a theme that at the moment trumpets something like 10 million players.
Gaming is changing and we and i count myself in this may not like it (30 years of gaming makes me old school i think),less and less new and exciting ideas are coming out across all formats games are not made for love anymore they're made only for a companys bottom line at the end of the tax year
Fozzie22,
I'd almost agree with you except that the MMO genre is becoming saturated. I believe that as more and more MMO's are released the "niche" game will be vital for it's longevity. How that game chooses to be "niche" will vary, but I think that the "hardcore" game will certainly have it's place as there seems to be a decent ammount of people looking for it.
As much as I hate the thought of it I have to awknowledge the fact that console MMO's are definetly coming. As all of the big boys like SOE will be focused on those platforms it'll be the smaller, independant developers that will be key to the survivability of PC based MMO's. I've found that it's those independant developers that are much more willing to be creative and try to deliever something unique.
the nGE yes it is ripped daily...the old game..not so much :P He designed the original...not the NGE
Despite what the old school purists may say or believe, Pre-CU / Pre-NGE was not a great game. It had a ton of issues and was only fun for hardcores. As a matter of fact, there are more subscribers to SWG now than there were before the changes. That to me says a lot.
There's a good reason why they don't revert back to the old system or offer an old school server set.
Oh and as for Raph, he's nothing more than a "Brad McQuaid" of the sci-fi mmo. Old school, outdated, outmoded and generally unwanted in the genre.
Actually before the changes, most if not all the servers had high populations. Now many of them are nearly deserted as cries for server merges or free character transfers continue on the official boards. Smedley himself acknowledged the population problems at the last round of summits and said that he would fast track mergers. That was about a year ago I think...As for the ton of issues, agreed. This was highlighted by beta testers who recommended strongly that the game was not ready for release. They were ignored. After release, the players and devs worked together for months to fix many of the bugs and issues identified. All that work was scrapped, however, when management decided to turn SWG into a clone of WoW instead of fixing what they had. The trouble with this plan was that the WoW clonage was more bugged than the original game. On top of that, they chucked out everyone's progress. Not a really proud moment in the history of MMO gaming. And a good explanation of why many of the servers are, and remain, nearly empty.
the nGE yes it is ripped daily...the old game..not so much :P He designed the original...not the NGE
Despite what the old school purists may say or believe, Pre-CU / Pre-NGE was not a great game. It had a ton of issues and was only fun for hardcores. As a matter of fact, there are more subscribers to SWG now than there were before the changes. That to me says a lot.
There's a good reason why they don't revert back to the old system or offer an old school server set.
Oh and as for Raph, he's nothing more than a "Brad McQuaid" of the sci-fi mmo. Old school, outdated, outmoded and generally unwanted in the genre.
Ha jeebus you are a moron.A: it wasnt for hardcores.
B: SWG Pre Cu had 450k subscribers SWG now has 45k how the hell is that more you imbecile.
C: Koster is a god his vision of mmo's is how games should be virtual worlds not linear grind fests
The game was hardcore. It had a slow leveling curve. It required adventurers to worry about wounds and battle fatigue, forcing them to rely on entertainers and doctors, for which they had to return to town for. The economy was almost completely dependent on crafters, yet another hardcore component of MMO's, something few casuals get into because of the time investment and the tediousness of the usual crafting mechanics. There are plenty of indicators that the game was not casual and was never even close to being WoW casual which is the standard.
As to the subs, have you ever visited MMOGChart.com? Over it's lifetime, SWG never exceeded 300,000 active subs, about 25,000 less than EQ2. SWG currently is tied with EQ2 in market share, 1.4%. There are no hard numbers listed, but I do believe that SOE released numbers for EQ2 recently that put it around 250,000, hence SWG should be pulling around the same numbers if they equal market share.
The game is gaining popularity now that it is more Star Warsy with its faster and more visceral combat mechanics and streamlined classes. Adventurers are no longer completely dependent on crafters, there are lots of decent drops in the game now, they've even added raiding elements to the game.
You hardcore freaks think you make the genre, but you don't. The game has come close to completely recovering from your mass exodus. As more people get tired of WoW, they'll start looking at other casual friendly games, such as SWG and it will grow even more.
This is the reason why they will never go back to a classic setting. They don't need you people, for every one of you, there are 10's of casuals ready to fill your spots.
SWG isn't a casual game now. The grind to level 90 is one of the most boring grinds in any game out there right now, Asian MMO's included. They switched the game to solo quest-based advancement and forgot to have a regular quest line past 50. In order to be any decent at PvP you need all the high-end drops which requires groups of people who are willing to share loot but also requires you to go on raids multiple times cause nobody will help you if you won't help them.And if you seriously think the population is better you must be completely blind or playing on Bria. Go hit a server like Naritus and ask around about how the population is doing. My old server saw a massive chunk of the Imperial population just transfer over to Chilastra.
PvP is about the only thing worthwhile doing, besides collections which I guess you'd enjoy if accounting makes you feel tingly in your special place or the thought of placing something on a shelf and then putting it back on the floor over and over again sounds like a wild time.
Its still laggy and buggy. I convinced 8 of my friends to join SWG after the NGE and every single one quit before hitting level 50. They still play WoW. They all said they would have stayed if the game wasn't so laggy and buggy (same complaint as always) and if it was such a boring solo grind. They said it sucked that they couldn't play together because of the massive XP penalties for grouping. One of them summed it up best when he said that this game was like playing a crappy version of KOTOR in that you're equally alone.
Also I might add, if you didn't want a "hardcore" game that had interdependancy on other players, then why were you playing this one? Go back to Counterstrike.
http://mmo-hell.blogspot.com/
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/rejad
Rez.. a wonderful game that about 20 people bought phsyconauts(sp?) suffered pretty much the same fate great original games but the masses wont buy them they'd sooner buy football/golf/platform/FPS 15 or whatever i find it all a bit depressing.
So if the moneymen want a slice of this pie in the MMO genre they'll want one that'll pay the bucks and that at this moment in time will almost stifle any originality in the market and i'll say it again i hate it i want originality and want something new but its not going to be caterfore (seemingly) by this generation of games (and yes i'm looking at the bigger picture) the question then is people like myself and doubtless other will they stay around for the next something new? i really dont know i suppose only time will tell.
There are bigger reasons than the one you stated that SOE will never revert to any of the Pre-NGE systems, or even a single Pre-CU / Pre-NGE server. But that's another thread in itself.
As for the comment, "They don't need you people, for every one of you, there are 10's of casuals ready to fill your spots." Jeez, are you using a Smed Quote Book? That was SOE / LA's intent was getting rid of existing players to only be replaced with a rampaging horde of new players. Sorry buddy, it didn't happen. Well, part of it did. A whole boatload of us left, most of that 250k-300k playerbase left. But were NEVER replaced.
If 10 or so casuals really were replacing every veteran that quit, why do you have posts like this at the official forums?
Low server population problems... Devs and or Senators what can we expect for fixing this? http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/posts/list.m?topic_id=589448
TIME FOR A SWG MEDIA CAMPAIGN! http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/posts/list.m?topic_id=589912 "I was reading in another post on low server populations and ideas to boost subs."
Veterans of an Old SWG ..Getting them back in the new SWG Not a Request for a roll Back http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/posts/list.m?topic_id=589397
You have players posting in those threads (and whatever I didn't put up for an example) lamenting on the small playerbase. And it really still sucks for the existing veterans that are there still, who saw the number of players just go *POOF*... gone. And never fully replaced, not even halfway.
The evidence is also in-game. There are lots of ghost towns... player cities that are just "still there" but no players out and about. You will see it 2 forms in general.
a) Hate filled signs towars SOE / SWG by disgruntled players who left... and the signs are still like that.
b) Old crafter / vendor housing. You will see the signs describing item stats or message formats describing their products in a way that sounds alien to you if you only played the NGE. That crafter has been gone a LONG time. To me, that is one of the saddest indicators.
The hubs of the game are desolate of players. I laugh when I hear comments of "Well, everyone's at Kashyyyk or Mustafar now!"
Bwuahahahahaha!!! Pre-NGE, we had tons of people on Corellia, Naboo, and Tatooine. We had more people inside a single cantina in Coronet, Theed, Mos Eisley, and Bestine than any city / town / establishment currently in SWG. What was even better, was we still had enough players for numerous groups (like Hunting Groups) in places like Lok, Dantooine, Yavin IV, and most especially, Dathomir.
But all that is gone now.
And never replaced.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
There are bigger reasons than the one you stated that SOE will never revert to any of the Pre-NGE systems, or even a single Pre-CU / Pre-NGE server. But that's another thread in itself.
As for the comment, "They don't need you people, for every one of you, there are 10's of casuals ready to fill your spots." Jeez, are you using a Smed Quote Book? That was SOE / LA's intent was getting rid of existing players to only be replaced with a rampaging horde of new players. Sorry buddy, it didn't happen. Well, part of it did. A whole boatload of us left, most of that 250k-300k playerbase left. But were NEVER replaced.
If 10 or so casuals really were replacing every veteran that quit, why do you have posts like this at the official forums?
Low server population problems... Devs and or Senators what can we expect for fixing this? http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/posts/list.m?topic_id=589448
TIME FOR A SWG MEDIA CAMPAIGN! http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/posts/list.m?topic_id=589912 "I was reading in another post on low server populations and ideas to boost subs."
Veterans of an Old SWG ..Getting them back in the new SWG Not a Request for a roll Back http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/posts/list.m?topic_id=589397
You have players posting in those threads (and whatever I didn't put up for an example) lamenting on the small playerbase. And it really still sucks for the existing veterans that are there still, who saw the number of players just go *POOF*... gone. And never fully replaced, not even halfway.
The evidence is also in-game. There are lots of ghost towns... player cities that are just "still there" but no players out and about. You will see it 2 forms in general.
a) Hate filled signs towars SOE / SWG by disgruntled players who left... and the signs are still like that.
b) Old crafter / vendor housing. You will see the signs describing item stats or message formats describing their products in a way that sounds alien to you if you only played the NGE. That crafter has been gone a LONG time. To me, that is one of the saddest indicators.
The hubs of the game are desolate of players. I laugh when I hear comments of "Well, everyone's at Kashyyyk or Mustafar now!"
Bwuahahahahaha!!! Pre-NGE, we had tons of people on Corellia, Naboo, and Tatooine. We had more people inside a single cantina in Coronet, Theed, Mos Eisley, and Bestine than any city / town / establishment currently in SWG. What was even better, was we still had enough players for numerous groups (like Hunting Groups) in places like Lok, Dantooine, Yavin IV, and most especially, Dathomir.
But all that is gone now.
And never replaced.
they need us and want us back.that's why they will rollback to pre-cu or shutdown. we win in any case.
In reference to the guy whos new mmo just flopped. Yeah you must be thinking of Mcquaid. Never heard of Koster games released while still in late alpha/early beta, lol. Also Mcquaid sold his company to sony, shortly after Vanguard's launch.
Keeping my eye on Metaplace. Hoping that a game will be created with it that is close to what pre-cu was. From the ideas I've seen posted on the Metaplace forums, I think that a game with some of the pre-cu features (such as lack of levels) is very possible. Will be interesting to see how it works in the longrun.
As for the person who asked if Koster was going to hire him to make MMO. Nope, just going to provide you with the tools and if your MMO starts making you money (or gets too big), you get to pay Koster to use his servers.
As for WoW being the perfect "casual" game with pre-cu being totally hardcore, things I could do in pre-cu that are more difficult on WoW:
-- pop in for a few minutes, do a couple of missions or craft or entertain; in WoW, I have to hunt down quest givers, travel to the location of the quest, and find an area that meets my current level, spending huge amounts of time walking to locations only to have to rewalk it if I die (until I activate fp or get to level 40 to get a mount)
-- find a DECENT guild easily, all it took was hanging out in a cantina and conversing with people...every guild I was a part of in SWG for any amount of time was a result of meeting the guild leader while performing in a cantina....and notice the emphasis on decent; in WoW it is extremely easy to find a guild, someone is spamming for people to join their guild/sign their charter all the time but every guild I ever belonged to in WoW was pretty much worthless (see article in Games for Windows magazine about guilds, the writer hit it dead-on)
-- rejoin my in-game buddies if they or I had not played for a while; in WoW (or any other game with levels), if one is unable to play for a bit, one finds him/herself out-leveled by the people he/she once played with which means grouping with them keeps them from getting xp and significantly lowers the xp of the lower level player
-- group with people in all stages of character development without negative impacts (well, except dying more frequently if one went as a noob to a more difficult planet or POI with the elite profession characters); in WoW (and other leveled games), people only want to group with those near or above their own level
and as for casual...how much more "casual" can you get that hanging around a cantina visiting with people?
The cool thing about SWG was its appeal from casual (pick a prof, grab a weapon, and go kill stuff....no armor, no buffs...the way I played for the first couple of months) to hardcore (find the best "template," carry a variety of weapons with different damages, know where to find the best buffs/who makes the best supplies, spend time looking for the best resources, study guides to one's profession on the internet....). It had stuff for both the social gamer and the combat gamer. The gamer it didn't appeal to was one who wants to solo their way through a MMO via a grindfest with uber-loot to "end-game" short of engaging in PvP.
That last paragraph sums it up quite nicely. There was something for every playstyle.