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Does SOE still have the old codes?
drgnsbld52
Member Posts: 4
Say, when SWG finally comes down to its final breath, do they keep their codes and whatnot from the old system, from say Post or Pre CU?
If they do, it makes me wonder if in a final attempt they may roll back, even though i dont see the game dieing for a few years.
Hey, hopefull thinking right? 
Comments
They claim they haven't. But for the sake of argument, let's say they do. There still would be a monumental amount of work necessary to sort through all the code changes made since Pre-CU to determine which ones should be salvaged and applied to the old code base.
Some fixes would be integrated/depend on the post-CU/NGE code being there, so it would have to be re-written so that its benefits could be realized by tne classic code base.
All in all, a lot of work, for little return (from SOE's point of view), hence they take the easy way out and claim the code is lost.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
actually wasn't it Julio Torres who said on tv (i think G4) that they could reinstate the older code if they wanted to but it would cost too much to reimpliment/maintain 2 codes (NGE and Pre NGE) to make it viable?
Then they should get rid of the NGE crap and go full out pre-NGE!!
!! I miss that game, god times.... good times.
What a joke! How come they wouldnt have it, thats not the kind of thing u throw away and SOE must have everything very safe locked away from anyone`s sight. But as was said before, the amount of effort and money that would be necessary for a change like that makes it oiut of question, Specialy for an old game like SWG, i say they will never, ever do such a thing as roll it back to either pos or pre-CU stage. Even if there was no money and time involved that would be like to admit their mistake and they will not do that. IMO.
I truly believe that they, SOE still has the code. They still probably have it running on one of their private internal servers. I think that the real reason for not rerolling back or putting up one classic server, is due to the lack of personel to maintain the servers.
For me and most everyone, it is a no brainer when it comes to if the choice had to be made which version of the game needs to go and which needs to stay.. I guess for SOE they haven't hit rock bottom yet, which i can't believe to make that choice a reality.
I would think it would be pretty irresponsible and unprofessional for them not to have back-ups.
However, I would have thought the same thing about revamping the game twice on your paying customers.... so you never know :P
For a fact, everyone has the old codes. Its in every SWG CD that is out there, from the beta ones to the Complete experiance. All you have to do is remove all patches after 12 and you have Pre-CU.
Thats how the emu guys do it.
CU was built on top of pre-CU, NGE was built on top of CU. Portions of the older code may have been disabled and replaced, but much or most is still active, demonstrated by continuing bugs that date back to launch. They couldn't support what they have now unless they had access to the original code. They would need a new engine if they wanted to stop using the old code.
Simple answer, they have the old code. It is either commented out or altered to make the current system work. Do they have a copy of the unaltered original code? I bet they do. as it would be unwise to not be able to have a reference point. Even if they did not have an unaltered copy of the original code, there would be comments within the code telling you where the changes are made and what those changes did. Comments in code are one of the first things taught to coders.
As to the person who stated that it's on the CD's, actually that's not entirely true. It is partially, but not the whole SDK and source. Hence the long period of time for the "non flying birds" to be able to re-engineer the original code.
Of course they have the code. Code is always stored in source control systems that keep all the revisions of it and can extract any version at any time. Saying that they dont have it is a big lie.
Actually it wouldn't surprise me in the least if SOE actually DOES NOT have the old code!
I've yet to see any evidence that SOE follows anything approaching responsible process with regard to their coding, development, and systems admin/operations procedures.
Example 1: Bloodfin and Chimaera had to be rolled back on CU patch day, to a backup that was days old. Why? Because they did a MAJOR database migration/software upgrade (the CU) without having A CURRENT BACKUP of all the servers! That is total irresponsibility, and something that would get any sysadmin fired. Fired that is from a company that has responsible procedures. Any sysadmin (that doesn't work for SOE) knows better to do ANYTHING with a server without first verifying the current backup... Apparently SOE doesn't give a crap about the fact that to their players, that data is invaluable.
Example 2: They clearly have no version control or proper documentation of their code and systems. When the lead producer admits that they let their space system expertise walk out the door and that they'd had to spend MONTHS reverse engineering PART OF THEIR OWN CODE, you know that they have no standards whatsoever for coding, documentation, and version control. Anyone who has worked as a software engineer or QA tester probably threw up when they read that admission. I was really surprised that DeadMeat and cohorts made that admission, as it really REALLY made him look incompetent.
You NEVER put yourself in a situation where any of your employees can walk out the door taking with them critical information that you don't have documented. EVER.
So yes, I could believe that no only do they not have the Pre-CU code, the CU code, they might not even have the code from the publish right before the current one! Clearly SOE is very shoddy with proper process.
I see very little evidence of professionalism or competence at SWG.
The fact that this sad state persists is furthermore an indictment of the management of SWG, but what do you expect when you put some marketing asshat in charge of the whole shebang.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
oh they have the full code. and if they have no intention of ever using the pre-cu server installs again then in essence it is junkware to them. doomed for the trash bin eventually. why not make it available to the "flightless
bird"? it would get us a game to play much sooner and get us off their backs. win and win.
arguing with a corporate fanboi is like teaching special education.
even if you teach him something...at the end of the day he's still retarded.
I have to agree with the reasoning of previous posters.
The software dev organization I've worked in for the last 10 years has copies of original code for every product we've ever shipped. No professional and competent dev organization wouldn't, considering how cheap storage is these days.
So, if all it requires is competence and professionalism, it certainly wouldn't surprise me in the least if the SWG team hadn't retained pre-CU code in a backup somewhere.
fuck it.. another company has to do a starwars mmo... SoE is a joke
SOE is a joke under any standards.
At this point there is so much out there against SOE, that people who ignore it are lemmings, not victims.
DO NOT play a SOE game...
After all I've seen with SOE and SWG, I'm open to this possibility now. A couple of years ago it would have never entered my mind that any company could be so badly managed. Now it enters my mind plenty.
After all I've seen with SOE and SWG, I'm open to this possibility now. A couple of years ago it would have never entered my mind that any company could be so badly managed. Now it enters my mind plenty.
We don't have any evidence that would suggest that any of us should think otherwise. SOE mismanagement is truly legendary at this point.
hah well you'd have to use reversed engineering
hah well you'd have to use reversed engineering
Yeah.. and it's been done. There's only so much you can get out of the client though. You still need the server programs and source code (and all of the algorithms for combat, spawns, etc. if they happen to be separate) to have the whole thing (Or to have a 100% accurate reproduction, at least).
The irony is, I firmly believe, is that if SOE even WANTED to do classic servers they'd have to build their own emu from reverse engineering the client.
Of course it could be done. Just not by the entry level grads and career washouts that make up their current Dev team.
You are right , all the better preCU talent has been hired up by Bioware Austin - whatz up with that?
Thats quite a statement, i cant remember a lot of the Dev profiles, but if you're gonna say something like that perhaps you should back yourself up instead of just making insults at those who cannot defend themselves.
Thats quite a statement, i cant remember a lot of the Dev profiles, but if you're gonna say something like that perhaps you should back yourself up instead of just making insults at those who cannot defend themselves.
They've had over two years. The UI is still a broken kludge that requires macros and mods to work right, there are no animations IN GAME (not just promised), and NPC's still shoot through walls, trees, buildings, etc. Those are all basic things that people have complained about since the NGE came out that could have been addressed WITHOUT BEING A ROLLBACK.
The Dev team have always said "too haaaaard" in most cases when they even bothered to acknowledge the problems. The UI, for example, was one where they recently cried "too haaaard", because the code for it was a mess.
Those are all basic, fundamental faults in the game that NEVER should be in a 4+ year old live game. The fact that NONE of those issues have been fixed, in my mind, is in and of itself proof that the Dev team is incompetent and unqualified.
Thats quite a statement, i cant remember a lot of the Dev profiles, but if you're gonna say something like that perhaps you should back yourself up instead of just making insults at those who cannot defend themselves.
Why do you keep defending these talentless, unprofessional hacks?
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi