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Skill in a PVP mmo
graill
Member Posts: 257
Everyone talks about it, nearly everyone says thay have it. Lets discuss skill and what "i" think would be a better use of it in an mmo. Take twitch games, first person shooters where everyone is the same save the experiance of playing thousands of hours in games like quake, UT4 and so on. everyone has the same armor, same weapons (the exceptions being there and hundreds of diff weapon types and armor types in my example) same everything, save one, and that is the skill to play that avatar better than the next person, internet connections aside. this also is not a plug for fps mmo's though it might sound like it on the surface.
now in an mmo with my skill usage example everyone enters the game with the ability to take out any other player. it will be the players that have been ingame longer, know the controls better, know the land ins and outs and know the the local laws (city or town for example) better that will have the upper hand, but only just so. just as a vet player can use a sword or shoot a gun simply because they can aim better, a person coming into an mmo with this type system and is a very quick learner will do well.
armor and weps, had by crafting or simply being bought will give no added combat benefit other than (omg thats cool!) looks and diff damage types and ranges. they degrade with use, damaged in combat, never quite getting back to that pristine level of damage, will you keep using it against folks knowing its getting old? (as an example)
The age old call "i have been playing for 4 years and i have earned the right" doesnt fly anymore (i can walk away from a game/avatar regardless of time invested, can you?). instead, you as a person had better have the quickness, the coordination, familiarity and know how to take on a hungry new player that has the potential to take you out if they can handle controls better than you, or use the land or weapons better than you.
the support logistic for this would be for competant devs to fill in but i hope folks reading this get a general idea and not take it to seriously that they get angry at just another idea to toss around, the devs will make or break a model like this with whatever support for endgame, cities, bridges etc.
we all know quite a few mmo's have had snippets of greatness, one day we may see one mmo with it all.
warning: no developer or company in any capacity may use any idea in any form in this post without my express consent. 
can you smell that?!!...............there is nothing quite like it.....................the smell of troll in the morning............i love that smell.
Comments
I don't get it, what was your idea? A IRL skill mmo?
I think one of the main reason why Twitch-Combat hasn't made it into major MMO's is quite a simple one: Lag!
With shooters like CS, UT and stuff like that, you never ever have to think about the server-load a game like WoW or DAoC or well, any other MMO has. It's simple numbers. The problem there is that some people might have problems with their connections at some point, problems they can't control. They might be server-sided, they may be client-side, they may be provider-side, but those problems can be there and hence, such problems would keep popping up and ruin the game for those playing.
I'm not saying it's impossible, but it is probably a whole lot more difficult to achieve with current technology. Even AoC, which is going to introduce a Semi-Twitch-Based combat, has resorted to actually queing actions inside Game-Machanics to work around the Lag-Problems, hence you can play it (or so they say) at even 500ms Latency.
Also, Skill /= Skill. A twitch-based combat system might take a certain amount of training and some people will have advantages over others simply by having better reflexes and so on and so forth, but the current system employed in many MMO's often needs a different kind of skill. You need to know your character, need to know how to best use your abilities, when to use specials, when to activate combo's. You need to work with your team, coordinate your efforts and know how and where to be.
All in all, I'm thinking with rising access to broadband connections and the Connection-Speeds going up slowly but surely, more games may incorporate twitch-based combat. However, the Item thing is not just a combat related issue. After all, people love to show off their items, and show how "mighty" they are with them. *shrug* That#s just the way it is with many people.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
i belive the game is called Guild Wars, go pvp and its most likely what ur telling about there, everyone got same weaps same armor same skills, its only about who use them better, or a better teamwork.
bunnyhopping MMO?
Twitch based MMOs are still not technically possible. There is just too much lag out there, making things uneven even when everything else is equal.
Take your average FPS guy with 50ms ping against an equally skilled guy with 150-200ms ping. The second guy will be hands down loser in most situations (as I said, given equal skill). Now, put on top of that differences in armor, skill builds etc. and the gap created by the technical problems raises even more.
Unless we reach a technology level where most connections response time is very fast, the ones that are ultra-fast are getting slowed and the very slow are getting dropped from the server (the later part is done by FPS games), don't expect to see any meaningful twitch based MMO. Simply because those closer to the server or with a better connection will have an unfair advantage just from the starting line.
Asheron's Call was heavily twitch based, and it came out in 1999.
I've never played that particular game so here's my question:
What was the effect of lag in the gameplay? If it was minimal, then something else was happening behind the hood giving you the illusion of twitch game (or at least the way I perceive it from an FPS perspective).
I have another question:
Why FPS games are limiting their servers to 32 people max when they could have massive battles of 100-200 people? And why does one chooses to join servers with the best ping possible?
Why is this not an issue on any MMO currently on the market, twitch based or otherwise?
Are you sure that AC has not implemented a training wheel like mechanism to assist you when the lag raises beyond a certain point?
What does twitched based mean? explain please...
Almost every mmo ive subscribed too has been a fps mmo ..first 10six , endless ages, planetside, wwiionline...and next huxley.
In every one of them lag was not a issue 95% of the time. Unless your on dial up you should still be able to win a fight. The lag spikes are annoying in all games so that is the 5%. (ever wiped on a boss when a raid lags?)
I liked every one of the games i listed each had its own good/bad ideas, and i do see a huge market for mmo fps. There is room for all types of games fps rts rpg or a combination .
Own, Mine, Defend, Attack, 24/7
Two main reasons:
1. FPS games are about the player being able to make a difference in the match outcome. One player can kill half the enemy team if he is good enough and decide the round/game. In a 100vs100 this is not possible. Its utter uncontrollable, unpersonal chaos.
2. The servers are made for high response time. Hard to do for 200 players. You will need a completely new server architecture.
And) why does one chooses to join servers with the best ping possible?
Are you serious ? To be able to hit the enemy before he hits you and to have a non laggy game experience (smooth movements).
Why is this not an issue on any MMO currently on the market, twitch based or otherwise?
Because reflex based actions are being ignored to make latency not an issue. Imagine two hunters with bows shooting at each other. In a FPS I could dodge the arrows manually (because of a 20ms ping). In current MMOs I do not move my character and the dodge action is being decided by looking at your attributes (agility). You do not have to dodge manually (you simply couldn't with high lag). MMO servers are centralized for huge areas. One server cluster for Europe, one for SE Asia, one for china, one for NA etc. It is common to have a ping of up to 500ms to these servers. If both players have 0.5s lag then that would add up to 1s of unsynchronization between the players. The arrow would hit you before you even see the enemy hunter shooting. You cannot dodge what has already hit you so they are using values to represent how good your character can dodge without even considering if you, the player, could dodge it.
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I agree that current technology is not ready yet. MMOs require server clusters to run. FPS games need servers in your geographical region with a high response time. What is needed is either faster message delivery over the network or region based server clusters. The first option will most likely be available when optical data transport has been optimized and installed and the second part when server clusters also called super computers become very cheap. Both not likely to happen soon.
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Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
I get the feeling hes questions were rhetorical, and were just put forward to make a point, so in short, no he was not serious
heh, seen a few of those.
can you smell that?!!...............there is nothing quite like it.....................the smell of troll in the morning............i love that smell.
i belive the game is called Guild Wars, go pvp and its most likely what ur telling about there, everyone got same weaps same armor same skills, its only about who use them better, or a better teamwork.
i see your assumption, if there were no levels and no skills attainable that are dependant on level i would agree. right now GW is just like any other mmo model, linear and level based.
can you smell that?!!...............there is nothing quite like it.....................the smell of troll in the morning............i love that smell.