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People are forced to ebay
Hufftoth
Member Posts: 18
In any game where the gear a persion can buy is a lot better then what he can get solo or in a small group within reasonable time. People are forced to either buy gold or use a unreasonable amount of time in order to catch up with the crowd.
I think that if the MMO companies worked better on implenting quests and encounters that enabled alts and people coming back to the game to gear up to a level where they could participate in whatever they wanted too. There would be no point in buying gold.
If the best gear enables you to do 1500 DPS, the average gamer should be able to get up to 1350-1400 DPS in a mather of days.
I know it is probably hard to get anything out of my rambling but anyhow, anyone have any thoughts on this?
Comments
or devs could create a system in which itemization is not king
or people could just enjoy the ride to the top instead of being consumed by having the best stuff
You have a good point. People only grind and real world trade because there's so much to get, and it's so hard to get. But to be honest I think the only kinds of game your idea would work in is a skill-based game with no levels. The PvP in GW (the PvP with PvP-only chars.) kinda pulled this off (intentionally or not) as everyone starts at max level; and the currency with which to get more skills and better gear, isn't tradable, it must be earned by playing PvP.
It's a good idea but I don't see it working in a normal MMORPG scenario.
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OP please entertain me and explain how exactly they are forcing you to buy anything. In fact, how exactly they are forcing you to play <insert game> in the first place.
There are some valid reasons one could employ to justify cheating (both yourself of the experience and others of the normal game progress). You can use the services. Noone is forcing you.
I think we're long past the phase where some people play to entertain themselves it seems.
You don't have to wear the best gear, so you don't have to buy money. Stupid wowers Oo
thw whole point of having top end gear is to work hard for it...meh...
I don't see why it shouldn't work in a "normal" MMORPG setting... You can have a persistent world with PvE without linear progression and associated grind. I can see GW-style "you begin at max level" progression work perfectly in a MMO.
In fact, in a multiplayer game this model would work much much better than linear progression which is inherited from single-player rpgs and which is, frankly, not suited to a multiplayer environment at all.
EVE is another step in the right direction - a new player can become competetive raher quickly if he concentrates on one set of skills. Older players have more breadth regarding the ships and roles they can use but the sharply exponential cost of raising higher skill levels effectively ensures that even the relative noobs can be useful if they play smart.
I've probably played a dozen MMOs now, and I've never felt the slightest impulse to buy in game money. I think it's a bit too far saying that people are forced to do it. Especially in WoW, where gold is soo easy to aquire, and there isn't really anything to spend it on anyway. Most of the best gear is bop. And besides, you can get by easily enough without that. You don't have to have the uber gear for anything other than the high-end raids anyway, and if you are doing those, you should already have the gear from other raids.
FFXI on the other hand, you are pretty much required to have certain gear at certain levels, and if you don't have it, people will get upset with you. I still never bought any money in that game either, I'd just put the time into making it, like the game was intended.
Things that are expensive are expensive for a reason. If you can't afford it, you should put the effort in to getting it. It's way more rewarding that way anyway. Buying money takes some of the challenge out of the game, so you end up missing out.
If you don't want to have to "try" to get things, then I think you are in the wrong genre. you shouldn't just get everything for free.
That's the problem with games were the only thing to do is loot and level. Especially when loot is random. DDO does this a lot better in that items have a cap on stats and everytime you do a dungeon you're guarenteed to get something at least half-way decent.
http://mmo-hell.blogspot.com/
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/rejad
No one is 'forced' to go to EBAY or the like...it's a choice each individual makes.
Thinking otherwise is another example of today's "self entitlement" social morals that have developed in the last couple of decades.
I agree to 100%
Noone is forced, its all about lazyness. How did the things end up on ebay in the first place? Yes, someone did the damn quest/raid.
And if you play that stupid game, you will get the items. Thats the whole purpose of those MMOs : (
The OP sounds like the typical ADD gamer of late, who complains they are forced to pursue RMT and justify it by claiming the amount of time required to earn items and coin in game is unreasonable.
MMOGs are about an investment of time. If you don't like the format, play an item shop game but don't think you are justified in coming to my game which does not support or allow RMT and whine about having to earn your way.
Some people really need to understand that NOT ONE GAME EVER MADE forces anyone, they offer things you, me, anyone CAN aquire. There is only one person that will force you to do things in a game and that person is always yourself, if you choose to get that "UBER" gear then it is a choice YOU made to do so, if you play casual then again it is YOUR choice to do so but one must understand that it might haveconsequence,
Simply put to anyone, the only one forcing something in these games will always be YOU who is playing the game.
My guildies came to my house,put a gun to my head and said they will kill me if I dont buy gear off of EBAY!!!!!!
Seriously,I find it funny how people try to justify for cheating,tell me if you get the best gear threw ebay,what is the point of playing X game ? Like WoW,the whole point is to work for your gear ,the game is pointless pretty much if you have the highest tier gear,what are you going to do ? PEEVEEPEE ?
The issue of RMT is an old one, and will probably never be completely resolved, but to reference something that the OP said:
"People are forced to either buy gold or use an unreasonable amount of time in order to catch up with the crowd."
This statement is marginally true in that there are people who play MMO's to "win", which is a pretty ludicrous goal in a game with tens of thousands of players. These people have, and will continue to buy gold in order to pursue their goal which they will of course, never achieve. However, the OP does have the glimmerings of a point in regards to his comments on game design.
To use WoW as an example; there are the hardcore raiders in their shiny T6 epics. Conversely, there are the arena PVPers in their shiny S3 epics of roughly equal "power", and the heroic dungeon/karazhan/ZA casual PVE raiders with their shiny Badge of Justice bought epics which aren't far behind the T6/S3 epics power-wise. Nowhere near the "in a matter of days" that the OP mentioned, but still a casual-friendly grindable way of "catching up with the crowd."
This is why WoW is successful. It caters to all four of the major MMO food-groups; Casual/Hardcore PVE and Casual/Hardcore PVP. It's a solid model for keeping subscriptions and, as it's something that no other game has (that I've seen) realised yet, it's the reason that WoW will continue to dominate the MMO market despite many of it's players being fully aware that the game is actually a bit crap.
I ended up a tad off-topic there, but to conclude: Gold buying is never necessary. Ever. If you feel you can't invest enough time into a game to enjoy it, then you should quit and find another game.
Game designers are never going to get the message that they need to be more casual-friendly when the casuals are "cheating" by buying money to stay competitive in a game that is too hardcore by design.
Edit: My no typ gud.
Daarco, Pretty lame arguement. I'm sure on a daily basis you utilize the services of others to make your life easier. PFFT...There isn't a person on this planet that hasn't cut a corner sometime in thier life to accomplish a task quicker.
Most current MMOs require an insane amount of grinding. I've played most of the current mmos out there. I havn't leveled a single one to max simply because grinding is way to monotenous. Really you can't tell somebody they are lazy when it comes to a video game. Lazy and Work go together not lazy and entertainment.
I've never bought gold on ebay (or any other online source) and I do just fine. No need to put in massive amounts of time either.
Perhaps if people started playing the game instead of playing to keep up with the jones's then maybe this kind of thing would not be a problem. Maybe the flaw isn't in the game, but in the way people choose to play.
As far as catching up with the crowd? Who cares, most of these games are just as fun at low level with newbie gear as they are at max level with uber gear. The enjoyment comes from the journey through the game and the friends made during the journey. Not only are you depriving yourself of this enjoyment via a self impose belief that the game does not begin until you are uber but, in my experiance, E-bayed people often tend to lack the skills required to use their characters effectivly.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
First, you have not been allowed to sell virtual items or money on ebay for over year and they will take action if you list it and someone reports it.
Second, no one forces you to do anything in a video game to include play it.
Gilbuying becomes a factor when you dont have enough time to farm and level. I can accept the fact that some people dont have the time , to do both. Gear systems are design to force you to spend time within the game , and force you to play.
Do you need the gear to play the game? Of course not , its the same way , that when your kid ask for a 150.00 pair of nikes. While in the adult mind you know you can live with them , people who have never been told no , or have never had to make do with the K-mart brand , feel "forced" to get the uber elite gear.
Its a good design to keep adult minds playing , who have a strong work ethic (grind ethic) , but its bad for the kid mind who doesnt feel he /she should be deny uber elite item X.
So if you feel compeled to own elite armor, cant make with NPC armor , you probly will end up buying gold , and take whatever happens to you. You also dont realize the impact on others , as you make your "forced" gold buying decision.
You have to learn , you cant have everything , and what you want , you have to work for. Anyhow, I m getting old.
to each his own playing style that includes ebay.
The only ones "forced" to e-bay are the "got to have it now" babies who need to stick to singleplayer games with cheat codes because they can't play a game the way it's meant to be played. There is no justification for buying gold/items/characters/etc., other than that person sucking at the game. Period.
It's like sex...90% of the fun is getting "there" and if you don't enjoy the getting there..maybe it's not for you
There will be 3 kind of items in total, 1 of them being normal items which can be traded normally, another one via pve (pve in a rvr pvp zone, so bots/farmers can't camp it quietly) that can't be traded, and the pvp one I explained before, the latter being the less powerful one. It seems like a tweak to that system GW uses, applied to the common MMORPG. Can't wait to see if this one works out.
It's a game. Not supposed to be work or hard work. It's your time and if you find it better to buy gold rather than grind for hours, so be it. I don't care. It bothers me more to see resellers on games more than gold sellers, yea it can be one in the same, but resellers piss me off cause if they're not farmers then they open the door for em. At the least gold sellers are working at a "job", resellers are just greedy F@#$s.
No I don't support farmers, but I do agree with the op in the sense that it's the game's time sinks that make people want to buy gold. Some players may be lazy, buying a character from ebay is lazy. But when someone plays for fun and to compete in said game takes certain gear, which they want, not need, but want. And If you make $30.00 bucks an hour. 3 hours of a grind to get xx coin, whereas you can buy it for an hour of your times money, then gold sellers aren't going away anytime soon.
Perhaps publishers aren't far seeing enough to know that their economy is the type that grows gold sellers with time sink grinding for coin, or perhaps they really don't care, either way, they make money off of you, the player.
I actually like Blizzard's point on all this. You won't be able to fight the ebayers all the time. Fight them where and when you can. But in game, to get the best gear you HAVE to be a raider or die-hard pvper. There is no other choice about it. Sure, you can "buy" some really good gear, but it will never be the best. Why spend all this time whining that Dr Phil bought his epic sword of doom? Sure, he may have a slight advantage over you for a very brief point in time, but you... the die-hard raider/pvper will ultimately remain king/queen in the game.
Like it or not, gold sellers bring players to our games and money to the bottom for the developers of said games. Personally, I'd rather see Dr Phil buy his epic sword of doom straight from Blizzard or SoE instead of via the IGEs of the world. Companies won't reduce time sinks because that will cost them money. An easy way to do that is to keep the best items available only to the die-hard raiders/pvpers, yet have an item mall where anyone can go and buy what they need to keep them playing the game. More and more, people have more money than time.
You have players that play 40-60 hours a week and they want to keep their "right" to being the best via the gear they have. I won't argue, they have earned the right to wear that gear. On the other hand, you shouldn't force a player that has little time to play, out of a game. The goal is to grow subscription numbers, not to keep games limited to just the few that have 40-60 hours a week to play and farm what they need.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."