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Just not enough
smitty0356
Member Posts: 368
I like this game a little.... and I want to like it more, but the rest shrines and repetitive dungeons (I know I should expect that) just don't do it for me.
If you haven't played the game... don't be a caster, or you will run out of mana, and be constantly annoyed by the restoration mechanic.
For the game having such a strong title, they should have invested the time and money to make this game as large as the title it carries.
Honestly I thought there would be player made mission system incorportated in such a title.... it's just not enough fun... or anything to be a big name title anymore. That, and it's not even that much like D&D to keep the hardcore players there... I honestly prefer the pen and paper (depending on the group). And I'm a die-hard gamer.
Elite poster by 82
Comments
The rest shrine mechanic adds a huge amount of strategy to the game... so it doesn't become another spam-fest... it actually takes a little bit of skill to play this game well. The only shitty thing about this game is the fact that they had to use the Eberron universe. IMO, this is Turbine's best mmo... it's too bad it never caught on early ;-/
{ Mod Edit } I disagree with the way that meta-magic was implemented. Once again, it doesn't reflect pnp or a good system in the game. They really should have chosen one OR the other, not go down the middle gaining nothing.
Elite poster by 82
It would be nice to have player made content but I have no idea how you could do that in an mmo.
If you are finding you have mana problems, try a sorcerer, I have both a sorcerer and a wizard and sorcerers have a lot more spell points. Depends what you want to do also, as a rule of thumb, wizards are more suited to cc/buffing etc whilst sorcerers blow things up. Stick with the casters as come level 16 you will be a god. Again, as in pnp, casters start out pretty weak but you start seeing the turn at about level 5 for wizards and 6 for sorcerers. I do of course run out of mana between shrines but only about 10% of the time, you will learn how to manage your mana over time.
You may find dungeons look the same to begin with in the harbour and to a certain extent they do but once you get past level 3 and start on the marketplace quests and beyond you will find them radically different.
DDO is definitely more tactical than most MMO's and management of the parties resources is key to completing some of the tougher dungeons.
I also agree that DDO is Turbine's best game. DDO is definitely on the up, people are beginning to see DDO for what it is, rather for what it is not (ie, a wow/eq clone).
You must not leave until you free Arlos and have gathered your party safely in this hallway.
Another person who hasn't played past level 3 making ridiculous generalizations about the rest of the game...I've never played pen and paper dnd, but i have played my share of mmos and started playing this due to recommendation. It is by far the LEAST repetitive mmo out there, has a ton of content now due to updates every month for the past 2 years including 6 modules. If you want a game thats not your everyday button masher and is unlike every other mmo in the market, this is your ticket. Too bad some people don't make it past the first couple levels to see what this game truly has to offer.
While agree with you I do not blame the players. The developers need to hook people early on so players have a reason to stick with the game after a set amount of levels. If people do not like or are not interested in the core game play at the lower levels...they are not going to be willing to stick it out for the other things the game offers.
While agree with you I do not blame the players. The developers need to hook people early on so players have a reason to stick with the game after a set amount of levels. If people do not like or are not interested in the core game play at the lower levels...they are not going to be willing to stick it out for the other things the game offers.
Agree, only one chance to make a first impression.
Having said that I only had to do the first few starter quests to see this wasn't going to be just boring open areas with random spawns, or worse inside areas with random spawns.
As for mana, looking on the brightside, if they had stuck to the core rules, a player would have had to choose a few spells, that they might not be able to use at all, then wait a day to relearn them. Unless they went the NWN nights way and just allowed you to sit around in the quest whenever you fancied it, like that made any sense.
"I will have a sleep here, just outside this room full of monsters, they won't come out for 8 hours or so, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.............. oh look all those big gaping wounds are healed now!"
At least a shrine, implies some sort of divine healing. Which is more likely to heal that leg hanging off than a bit of a snooze.
I have just re-subbed after being gone a year; there IS a ton of new content. BUT there is still NOT enough content to level past 2 without repeating content. The system is built around repeating each dungeon at least 3 times [normal, hard, elite] - for favor to get enough backback slots, if nothing else. Many of the dungeons ARE fun enough to want to repeat, a few are not. Unfortunately, there is a doldrums reached between 2nd and 5th level where you seem to have to keep repeating the same things [especially WW!] because the higher level dungeons are too tough [WITHOUT the proper gear]. Until you get an Icon of Khyber that gives you a melee weapon, kobolds can be tough and trogs very tough [especially shamans!] Until you get [or buy from the AH] a "proof vs poison" item, full grown spiders [redfang] and trogs [clutch] are too tough.
I've just hit 5 on my main and am enjoying the game again. The removal of the xp debt death penalty is working very well for me and I can now use the gear that lets me complete the level 3&4 dungeons. I am disappointed that the "crafting" is not crafting, but a raid dependant system - hopefully that will change.
If by LEAST repetitive, you mean that you don't "kill 5 bears", turn in, "kill 5 spiders", turn in...I agree with you. Most of the dungeons are fun enough to want to repeat, so it doesn't feel repetitive and with the right gear [or perhaps perfect party?] you won't have to repeat them more than a handful of times.
Questions:
1. Do you hit another doldrums above 5th level, where you MUST have gear x or spell y to complete many of the dungeons?
2. How the %&*^ do you kill the arcane skeletons? I still can't get past the Seal of Shokazulu [whatever] - I can't damage the arcane fast enough to put it down before I drop. I've tried cure mod scrolls on him [worked once, then I opened the door and instead of going down the hatch, opened the door with the necro and his band who offed me]. I've tried acid resist/fire resist potions - helped vs his casting, but his aura still kept dropping me. I'm a cleric 3/MU 1/Thief 1 so I can use any scrolls [that I can afford
] and buff before the fight with Prot Evil, Shield of Faith, shield [clicky], Resist acid/fire [pots], summoned scorpian.
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While agree with you I do not blame the players. The developers need to hook people early on so players have a reason to stick with the game after a set amount of levels. If people do not like or are not interested in the core game play at the lower levels...they are not going to be willing to stick it out for the other things the game offers.
Their decision to implement crafting is a good thing IF it trickles down. Right now it seems that they are desparately attempting to hold onto their high level players and not doing much to encourage NEW players [though removal of xp debt will help that, repair costs may bankrupt them - hard to say how it will pan out at this point]. They need to look at the Doldrums between levels 2-5 where if you don't have the right gear [or right party] it is very difficult to procede [no xp loss may greatly enhance that...]
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Your best bet for killing it, if your blunt weapons aren't enough, is a Searing Light wand (min level 5 wand), probably alternate between casting that and cure mod. I've also found that sending the barbarian after it works great
And don't forget to trip/sunder him, Mod 6 fixed it so that everybody gets these feats at BAB1 now
--
DDO Permadeath guilds
Repetive dungeons - there's walls, there's creatures, there's traps and there's loot. Oh, there's also a narrative DM. If you use these exact lables then all content is repetetive. Honestly, there's no reason to run the same quest more then once unless you actually intent to.
I have never had a problem with my caster and find the mechanics extremely rewarding and thought provoking. In the old days of pen & paper we used to erase the spell from our character sheet when used and wold lose the ability of ever casting it again, until the next weekend.
As large as the title - Isn't that a nebulous statement with no relevance - you're not trolling are you? I wish you would have explained a little more on what you think should be expanded upon.
Player created dungeons - we ALL would love this and it would cause the game to become an overnight hit if it were ever implemented.
Hard Core Players - actually, that's the ONLY type of players playing DDO! The ones playing are the types who ran extensive campaigns and frequently changed settings while tweaking rules to suit their needs. Maybes it's this type of player who understands how everything can't be a silver spoon and love a thought provoking experiance that provides for a social gaming environment unrivaled to the real thing.
I think it's just your outlook that leads the game to fail for you. Maybe not demand and actualy experiance the content? The game is making tremendous improvements and there's sign of it slowing down...
I have just re-subbed after being gone a year; there IS a ton of new content. BUT there is still NOT enough content to level past 2 without repeating content. The system is built around repeating each dungeon at least 3 times [normal, hard, elite] - for favor to get enough backback slots, if nothing else. Many of the dungeons ARE fun enough to want to repeat, a few are not. Unfortunately, there is a doldrums reached between 2nd and 5th level where you seem to have to keep repeating the same things [especially WW!] because the higher level dungeons are too tough [WITHOUT the proper gear]. Until you get an Icon of Khyber that gives you a melee weapon, kobolds can be tough and trogs very tough [especially shamans!] Until you get [or buy from the AH] a "proof vs poison" item, full grown spiders [redfang] and trogs [clutch] are too tough.
I've just hit 5 on my main and am enjoying the game again. The removal of the xp debt death penalty is working very well for me and I can now use the gear that lets me complete the level 3&4 dungeons. I am disappointed that the "crafting" is not crafting, but a raid dependant system - hopefully that will change.
If by LEAST repetitive, you mean that you don't "kill 5 bears", turn in, "kill 5 spiders", turn in...I agree with you. Most of the dungeons are fun enough to want to repeat, so it doesn't feel repetitive and with the right gear [or perhaps perfect party?] you won't have to repeat them more than a handful of times.
Questions:
1. Do you hit another doldrums above 5th level, where you MUST have gear x or spell y to complete many of the dungeons?
2. How the %&*^ do you kill the arcane skeletons? I still can't get past the Seal of Shokazulu [whatever] - I can't damage the arcane fast enough to put it down before I drop. I've tried cure mod scrolls on him [worked once, then I opened the door and instead of going down the hatch, opened the door with the necro and his band who offed me]. I've tried acid resist/fire resist potions - helped vs his casting, but his aura still kept dropping me. I'm a cleric 3/MU 1/Thief 1 so I can use any scrolls [that I can afford
] and buff before the fight with Prot Evil, Shield of Faith, shield [clicky], Resist acid/fire [pots], summoned scorpian.
I agree with your assessment....I think they need to add about 10-20 new dungeons in for the level 3-4 crowd to give it some extra depth and to cut down on the repetition. It would be nice to have a couple branching story arcs, too.
I really hope there isn't another doldrum period after level 5....I've found getting past level 4 to be seriously painful. Horribly painful. But still not as painful (and more fun by far) than grinding in all other MMOs, so I'm not really complaining....much....
Current MMOs: Rift, GW2, Defiance
Blog: http://realmsofchirak.blogspot.com (old school tabletop gaming and more)
I also agree that Eberron was the wrong universe to use. It's always felt to me like DDO's setting was largely a marketting strategy to promote Eberron, but hey, maybe I'm just wearing my tin foil hat. :-)
/rant on
To me, DDO has always been an example of a company not wanting to build their game around the rules and (general D&D) setting that was given to them. They've used its name and the few bits that fit their fancy to build something entirely more convenient for them, but consequently abhorrent to its name sake.
/rant off
Laters.
Apart from using spell points (which is, btw, a Wizards approved ruleset as an optional system...even outlined in their books for play), can you give examples of these rule deviations?
p.s. I'm not even disagreeing with you, but I've found most people who make statements like this think AD&D is still the ruleset...
Tangleroot + Stormcleave are your friends
Also, remember, there's a LOT of exp to be had in the explorer zones!
p.s. I'd pay real money to watch a new player their first time in Stormcleave on a webcam...you're gonna be pleased, for sure!
Ryzom did it and I expected that DDO would have it too. Of course Turbine shouldn't allow for items that come from player made modules to enter the official game but they could have given players the tools to make their own adventures.
Also, I agree, the current setting of Eberon was a horrible choice.
However, as far as any deviations from the rules which others have mentioned, let us not forget that Gary Gygax himself said that the rules were there as guidelines and that dungeon masters could make changes as they saw fit.
Let us not become a bunch of "rules bean counters" when the man who is responsible for the series allowed for changes.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Ryzom did it and I expected that DDO would have it too. Of course Turbine shouldn't allow for items that come from player made modules to enter the official game but they could have given players the tools to make their own adventures.
Also, I agree, the current setting of Eberon was a horrible choice.
However, as far as any deviations from the rules which others have mentioned, let us not forget that Gary Gygax himself said that the rules were there as guidelines and that dungeon masters could make changes as they saw fit.
Let us not become a bunch of "rules bean counters" when the man who is responsible for the series allowed for changes.
Gotta admit that while I loved Ryzom, the Ring thing just didn't appeal to me.
I think that DDO could have player made dungeons without much mess if they:
1. Released the toolset - or rather the dungeon block parts. Maybe no outdoors areas player made at first.
2. Let the player/designer place generic placeholders for traps, MOB's, Boss MOB, Optional subquests, Breakables, DM text, sounds...but NOT reward chests. There would be limits to how many of each could be added based on the total number of sections added.
3. The Hard Part: Create an algorythm that counts # MOBs, # traps, shortest distance from entrance to Boss MOB [or other completion requirement] which then assigns a level to the dungeon. A "+" design which has all the traps and MOBs down 3 parts and a straight run to the Boss - with no other completion requirements - could be filtered out by having to include at least x MOB spawns and y traps [or underwater areas - only 1 of which counts as a "trap"] on any path leading to completion to be validated.
4. The Other Hard Part: The design program would then, on the Turbine side, add the actual traps and MOBs based on the level of the quest.
The player/designer would know the layout and spawn points for these things, but so does anyone after their first time through.
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Using Unca's example would also allow for "guild housing" in the form of Castles, Keeps and Fortresses in personalized instances. If it were implemented there would be endless gaming options not limited to Defend-fort style conquest missions.
Personally, I would love to have a castle, keep, tower, etc, to maintain and defend agasint mobs. Maybe even there would be henchmen I could hire and pay to perform duties at the castle while existing in a persistant environment. Then if I couldn't defend the castle, or whatever, it would crumble as the armies/mobs destroyed the walls...
I believe this really isn't too difficult to implement and expect to pay a full retail price for an expansion which would provide for this level of dynamic content.
p.s. please pardon spelling and grammar errosr
Guild Housing is on the way, in fact, I'm still predicting it will be the surprise in 6.1...but I'm optimistic, so who really knows.
We do know they've been working on it for some time, used LOTRO's system as a pattern, and it's expected shortly.
Repetive dungeons - there's walls, there's creatures, there's traps and there's loot. Oh, there's also a narrative DM. If you use these exact lables then all content is repetetive. Honestly, there's no reason to run the same quest more then once unless you actually intent to.
I have never had a problem with my caster and find the mechanics extremely rewarding and thought provoking. In the old days of pen & paper we used to erase the spell from our character sheet when used and wold lose the ability of ever casting it again, until the next weekend.
As large as the title - Isn't that a nebulous statement with no relevance - you're not trolling are you? I wish you would have explained a little more on what you think should be expanded upon.
Player created dungeons - we ALL would love this and it would cause the game to become an overnight hit if it were ever implemented.
Hard Core Players - actually, that's the ONLY type of players playing DDO! The ones playing are the types who ran extensive campaigns and frequently changed settings while tweaking rules to suit their needs. Maybes it's this type of player who understands how everything can't be a silver spoon and love a thought provoking experiance that provides for a social gaming environment unrivaled to the real thing.
I think it's just your outlook that leads the game to fail for you. Maybe not demand and actualy experiance the content? The game is making tremendous improvements and there's sign of it slowing down...
Yes, casters are arguably the most powerful class in DDO. Actually they are the most powerful in PNP as well, by far.
Turbine has done a lot to reduce the power of high level casters to better balance them against the melee classes (e.g. extra and boosted to-hit melee attacks, cooldown timers, drastically reduced AoE durations, buffed mob HP), but there is still nothing that can beat ranged insta-kill.
As far as repetitive dungeons... that is not what I call repetitive and perhaps the OP doesn't mean that as well.
Repetitive to me is having to run the same quest more than once (perhaps at different difficulty levels) in order to have enough XP to level. Granted the new explorer areas can mitigate that somewhat.
Repetitive to me is having to run all the same exact quests for every single alt I roll up. That was one of the features of WoW that I most liked... there are 8 starting areas, and each one is quite different up to level 25 or so. DDO would benefit greatly from having a completely different starting area for monks & druids for instance... say more nature like as opposed to city like, and all different quests up to level 7 or 8, then linking back to Stormreach for the higher level stuff.
don't quote me on this Ridd, but I think Kate Paiz said mod 7 would introduce a new starting area with monks in one of the recent promo pieces.