“He just walked in and just started shooting at people randomly,” Sundstrom said. “I crawled out to the main aisle, then just got up and ran. Then I turned around and saw a group of concealed handgun owners stop him from shooting any other victims as they unloaded their weapons into him.”
But instead he walked into a room of unarmed people and proceeded to make them all target practice.
Ahh gun control...I carry and Im concealed.The problem I find with 9mm is just goes right threw the body and come to find out the peep still can run or shoot back....So I hade to change caliber.I dont leave home with out it.
I'm just gonna ask, cause it's weird to read that for me.
You can carry it as long as it's concealed? Meaning as long as it's not publicly viewable you can carry it around?
Say you go into a bank, are there any checks at the door that go off, or if you go into a mall etc?
Ahh gun control...I carry and Im concealed.The problem I find with 9mm is just goes right threw the body and come to find out the peep still can run or shoot back....So I hade to change caliber.I dont leave home with out it.
I'm just gonna ask, cause it's weird to read that for me.
You can carry it as long as it's concealed? Meaning as long as it's not publicly viewable you can carry it around?
Say you go into a bank, are there any checks at the door that go off, or if you go into a mall etc?
No, you need a special permit in order to carry concealed in some states. In other states you can only carry open. Even if you have a concealed carry permit, you're still free to carry your sidearm openly. It's legal concealment that's kind of a fine point of debate over here.
No, you need a special permit in order to carry concealed in some states. In other states you can only carry open. Even if you have a concealed carry permit, you're still free to carry your sidearm openly. It's legal concealment that's kind of a fine point of debate over here.
I see, concealed is permit only, not the norm or requirement to carry one.
Some areas are illegal to conceal carry in, schools, banks, govt. offices, mostly stuff like that. But no, it's not as though they have a pat down officer at at every entrance, that'd be stupid.
I'm just gonna ask, cause it's weird to read that for me.
You can carry it as long as it's concealed? Meaning as long as it's not publicly viewable you can carry it around? Say you go into a bank, are there any checks at the door that go off, or if you go into a mall etc?
It depends on the state, but there are certain places you cannot carry a gun no matter what permits you have. Any kind of government building or courthouse has metal detectors and guards these days, and it is absolutely illegal to take a firearm into such a building. Private institutions can also pass rules forbidding weapons and firearms on their premises, although I'm honestly not sure about the legality of such rules. Every college campus I know of in my area forbids weapons on campus.
Now, getting to the issue here, I think that the pro and anti gun control advocates should be ashamed of themselves for taking such a tragedy and using it in a fear mongering attempt to make their own cause seem righteous. It didn't happen because guns are too available to the murderer, or because guns were not available enough to the victims. It happened because an individual snapped, broke down, or somehow degenerated in such a way as to commit this act. Take your damned political agendas and stop summoning them after these tragedies happen.
I should think that the very fact that this is not the first time something so horrible has happened, with such similar circumstances, might be a clue that there is something seriously wrong in these people's psyches. Perhaps the pro and anti gun control advocates might take their firestorm of energy debating their political agendas and instead look into WHY these things happen, instead of HOW they happen.
Ahh gun control...I carry and Im concealed.The problem I find with 9mm is just goes right threw the body and come to find out the peep still can run or shoot back....So I hade to change caliber.I dont leave home with out it.
I'm just gonna ask, cause it's weird to read that for me.
You can carry it as long as it's concealed? Meaning as long as it's not publicly viewable you can carry it around?
Say you go into a bank, are there any checks at the door that go off, or if you go into a mall etc?
Some banks let you and some dont.. some malls and some dont bepends on who sets the policy..and yes if u cant see it,I can carry it ,LIke it cant be on my side or on the car seat.it stays in the pants leg or under shirt.Mom got one too.
Trade in material assumptions for spiritual facts and make permanent progress.
I just wish these murderous-suicidal losers would focus there attention on the pretentious hollywood type crowd... go shoot up the viper room or something.
Nice comment. You must be one of those compassionate conservatives I hear so much about.
I'm not sure if making concealed handguns would have made any difference in this case. People still would have died, and the gunman still would have died.
I think the more important question to ask is why are universities hotbeds of violence all of the sudden?
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
I'm not sure if making concealed handguns would have made any difference in this case. People still would have died, and the gunman still would have died. I think the more important question to ask is why are universities hotbeds of violence all of the sudden?
which reminds me of televised baseballs stance on nutballs running on the fields...they don't film them. hmmm, but if he had a gun and ran on the field and shot some people up we would/should hear about it. nevermind.
but instead we as a society are going to rip apart this kids life asking why? maybe it should be game over after the facts and don't figuratively marty them. dunno.
I'm not sure if making concealed handguns would have made any difference in this case. People still would have died, and the gunman still would have died. I think the more important question to ask is why are universities hotbeds of violence all of the sudden?
Now thats a Damm Good Question,my guess its young people..Its a know fact that their is an average of 3 to 4 guns per every man,woman and child in the US.the high school down the from me has been shut down twice this yrs because of guns in the school.and it is mostly a white middle class school.I dont carry because I want to.
Trade in material assumptions for spiritual facts and make permanent progress.
I'm not sure if making concealed handguns would have made any difference in this case. People still would have died, and the gunman still would have died. I think the more important question to ask is why are universities hotbeds of violence all of the sudden?
Now thats a Damm Good Question,my guess its young people..Its a know fact that their is an average of 3 to 4 guns per every man,woman and child in the US.the high school down the from me has been shut down twice this yrs because of guns in the school.and it is mostly a white middle class school.I dont carry because I want to.
I'm not sure if making concealed handguns would have made any difference in this case. People still would have died, and the gunman still would have died. I think the more important question to ask is why are universities hotbeds of violence all of the sudden?
Now thats a Damm Good Question,my guess its young people..Its a know fact that their is an average of 3 to 4 guns per every man,woman and child in the US.the high school down the from me has been shut down twice this yrs because of guns in the school.and it is mostly a white middle class school.I dont carry because I want to.
I think you need to check your facts. 3 to 4 guns per person in the US would be roughly 900 million to 1.2 billion guns. I think you will find even the most liberal estimate of legal and illegal guns to be closer to 450 million. There are an estimated 250 - 300 million legally owned guns in the US, likely enough to give 1 to every man, woman, and most children over the age of 4. The BATF maintains records of all firearms manufactured, sold, and imported in the US, but not even it can tell you exactly how many are in the hands of civilians legally or illegally. It is estimated that somewhere between 60 and 100 million legal gun owners exist in the US. The reason I mention this is because I believe that is where you got your 3-4 guns per person statistic. If you use the numbers from about 2005, a study indicated there were 80 million gun owners and 260 million legally owned guns which equals 3.25 guns per gun owner.
The whole thing is just ridiculous. It spawns primarily from some type of mental disorder in the shooter-- obviously -- which really has nothing to do with the amount of guns per person in any country really. I live in texas where it's roughly believed everyone and their mother carries a gun, and it's legal in most places (granted that it has to be concealed). But not everyone has one, not everyone should have one, and in a situation like this it could have been just as dangerous as it could have been helpful.
Unfortunately I don't think there is anything that could be done about this. Perhaps the police should have done more investigations on the threats in the dorms perhaps not. Its a real shame that things can happen like this.
This is probably just another result of social oppression... VA tech, Columbine etc...
I don't think we are outreaching enough.. These social cricles of today are designed to keep people out rather than welcome them in.. School (regardless of which level) is as much a social thing as it is educational.. It is not healthy to NOT have a social circle or connections to relate to and share your problems with.. When the "pop" groups reject a student based on a materialistic factor or perhaps a deeper trait that cannot be changed (the VA Tech shooter has a speech impediment), they find other ways to deal with and cope with things on their own which USUALLY ends up with 2 or more outcasted students meeting up and becoming friends..
Nothing good will ever come out of 2 people who feel they have been wrongfully exhiled, if you will, from social endeavors and circles. They will instantly conclude that "they" are the enemy and instead of actually TRYING to join a circle, they will oppose the circles with every bone in their bodies.. And some times, if the circles start to show great disgust and ignorance (the columbine kids were picked on endlessly because of their likes of dungeons and dragons etc) then will come the emotional interference..
We are all human.. And when this emotional interference comes to a peak, we act on it (screaming, fussing, stomping etc).. Some kids may cry, others may shout and punch stuff.. While a small percentage may decide that life is not worth it anymore and seek a greater price for the circles to pay. But by this time, if no one, i mean NO ONE has shown any kind of care or interest in the troubles that these young ones endure they will ultimately decide that the world is against them and will be indescriminant in their assault.
These are the ones that will kill without mercy... Anyone and everyone who they feel were unfair to them, and usually at this point everyone would qualify...
I think instead of trying to find more ways to alienate these people who are having these types of problens (After the columbine massacre, everyone who wore trenchcoats were outwardly descriminated on and most of the time looked at as automatic "bad" people, causing of course more splits and greater social oppression).. We need to reach out to everyone and try to get over ourselves, because even though you may not even know these people before the line is crossed, you will not be invincible when they start to shoot...
“He just walked in and just started shooting at people randomly,” Sundstrom said. “I crawled out to the main aisle, then just got up and ran. Then I turned around and saw a group of concealed handgun owners stop him from shooting any other victims as they unloaded their weapons into him.”
But instead he walked into a room of unarmed people and proceeded to make them all target practice.
Excuses.
Look it takes less than 10 seconds to kill 10-15 people with a machine gun, before people start to realise what's going on.
Whether every single student had a gun or not, would't have made a shit of a difference.
You guys in America keep not understanding that the problem with those mass shootings is how easy is to buy a gun over there.
When are you going to understand that having more weapons around means that there will be more loners that gonna own one and use it?
I can assure you that if buying weapons for civilians was illegal, you won't have disturbed people going around colleges shooting people.
Of course you will still have regular criminals which will be able to get a weapons anyway, but at least loners won't be able to.
Usually people that commit those massacres are bullied people with very little social skills, they won't be able to have good enough contacts with criminals to get hold of any weapons
I know owing a gun is fun, bordering the cool.
I admit that if it was legal in UK I would own one, and I will enjoy going around the country and shooting at cans of beans, so I know where you come from when you try to defend your "God damn right to own a gun".
But we have to be realistic, criminals can use a weapon better than an average Joe, so even if you possess a gun you'll have very little chance against a criminal.
Guns are for people trained like the Police and the Army, anybody else shouldn't own one.
I am not telling you how to live in your own country, but don't be surprise that those things happens, because there is nothing to be surprise about.........really.
For gods sake! How fucking ignorant are you people?!
The more guns there are, the less gun crime there is?!?!... How the fuck does that make any sense. Simple logic dictates 0 guns = 0 gun crimes. Pretty simple if you ask me.
Just look at the UK, or half of europe. Lowest gun crime, no guns available. You cannot keep bashing 200 year old quotes and use that as 'proof' that your ideas are right. Look at REAL WORLD examples. The ONLY place in the world that your equation works is Switzerland, and that's because the entire country is conscripted into the army. They have always been, and will always be, an exception to most generalisations about countries. The fact is, America ISN'T an exception to it. You have loads of guns, and loads of gun crime. The UK/EU has very few guns, and very little gun crime. Wise up already.
Difference is, owning guns is a constitutional right, the same as the right to free speech.
That and all those campuses that allow students to carry weapons have never (to my knowledge) had a school shooting. The places of highest crime have gun bans. It's laughable watching the mayer of Washington D.C. defend his handgun ban in the press... "this law has saved lives" while his city has one of the higher murder rates in the country.
Rural/suburban america has A LOT of guns. Where I live, there is NO ONE that doesn't have a gun in the house... and yet there is essentially ZERO crime.
another example: One of the highest gun ownership rates in the world is Switzerland... yet not much gun crime. The problem in America in terms of gun crime is Gangs and illegally owned firearms.
I just wish these murderous-suicidal losers would focus there attention on the pretentious hollywood type crowd... go shoot up the viper room or something.
Nice comment. You must be one of those compassionate conservatives I hear so much about.
Gee, whiz.
let me guess
another constitutionalist? ½truths
Is that your admission to hating the Constitution?
It seems to be the foundation for most of your arguments here. Seems to me that everything the founding fathers set up for us to enjoy and to protect you have stated as being crazy.
Once again we have pro vs. anti gun ranting. It is beside the point. I can at this very moment drive 30 minutes to the bad side of town and a wad of cash and buy guns, knives, and EXPLOSIVES to my heart's content, all very illegal.
Why did he do it? What drove a (by the accounts of those who knew him) a generally stable, well adjusted person to do this? I have also heard those reports that he was off his meds (just what they were hasn't been said), and that his demeanor seemed erratic in the last few days.
Comments
You can carry it as long as it's concealed? Meaning as long as it's not publicly viewable you can carry it around?
Say you go into a bank, are there any checks at the door that go off, or if you go into a mall etc?
And strangely enough....
Now what are you going to do about psycho women?
You can carry it as long as it's concealed? Meaning as long as it's not publicly viewable you can carry it around?
Say you go into a bank, are there any checks at the door that go off, or if you go into a mall etc?
No, you need a special permit in order to carry concealed in some states. In other states you can only carry open. Even if you have a concealed carry permit, you're still free to carry your sidearm openly. It's legal concealment that's kind of a fine point of debate over here.
I see, concealed is permit only, not the norm or requirement to carry one.
Some areas are illegal to conceal carry in, schools, banks, govt. offices, mostly stuff like that. But no, it's not as though they have a pat down officer at at every entrance, that'd be stupid.
It depends on the state, but there are certain places you cannot carry a gun no matter what permits you have. Any kind of government building or courthouse has metal detectors and guards these days, and it is absolutely illegal to take a firearm into such a building. Private institutions can also pass rules forbidding weapons and firearms on their premises, although I'm honestly not sure about the legality of such rules. Every college campus I know of in my area forbids weapons on campus.
Now, getting to the issue here, I think that the pro and anti gun control advocates should be ashamed of themselves for taking such a tragedy and using it in a fear mongering attempt to make their own cause seem righteous. It didn't happen because guns are too available to the murderer, or because guns were not available enough to the victims. It happened because an individual snapped, broke down, or somehow degenerated in such a way as to commit this act. Take your damned political agendas and stop summoning them after these tragedies happen.
I should think that the very fact that this is not the first time something so horrible has happened, with such similar circumstances, might be a clue that there is something seriously wrong in these people's psyches. Perhaps the pro and anti gun control advocates might take their firestorm of energy debating their political agendas and instead look into WHY these things happen, instead of HOW they happen.
You can carry it as long as it's concealed? Meaning as long as it's not publicly viewable you can carry it around?
Say you go into a bank, are there any checks at the door that go off, or if you go into a mall etc?
Some banks let you and some dont.. some malls and some dont bepends on who sets the policy..and yes if u cant see it,I can carry it ,LIke it cant be on my side or on the car seat.it stays in the pants leg or under shirt.Mom got one too.
Trade in material assumptions for spiritual facts and make permanent progress.
Nice comment. You must be one of those compassionate conservatives I hear so much about.Gee, whiz.
let me guess
another constitutionalist? ½truths
-I will subtlety invade your psyche-
I'm not sure if making concealed handguns would have made any difference in this case. People still would have died, and the gunman still would have died.
I think the more important question to ask is why are universities hotbeds of violence all of the sudden?
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
sensationalism...look at me.
would be my guess.
-I will subtlety invade your psyche-
which reminds me of televised baseballs stance on nutballs running on the fields...they don't film them. hmmm, but if he had a gun and ran on the field and shot some people up we would/should hear about it. nevermind.
but instead we as a society are going to rip apart this kids life asking why? maybe it should be game over after the facts and don't figuratively marty them. dunno.
-I will subtlety invade your psyche-
Now thats a Damm Good Question,my guess its young people..Its a know fact that their is an average of 3 to 4 guns per every man,woman and child in the US.the high school down the from me has been shut down twice this yrs because of guns in the school.and it is mostly a white middle class school.I dont carry because I want to.
Trade in material assumptions for spiritual facts and make permanent progress.
white middle class school.Now thats a Damm Good Question,my guess its young people..Its a know fact that their is an average of 3 to 4 guns per every man,woman and child in the US.the high school down the from me has been shut down twice this yrs because of guns in the school.and it is mostly a white middle class school.I dont carry because I want to.
i think im going to blame gangsta rap.
i am being facetious
-I will subtlety invade your psyche-
Now thats a Damm Good Question,my guess its young people..Its a know fact that their is an average of 3 to 4 guns per every man,woman and child in the US.the high school down the from me has been shut down twice this yrs because of guns in the school.and it is mostly a white middle class school.I dont carry because I want to.
I think you need to check your facts. 3 to 4 guns per person in the US would be roughly 900 million to 1.2 billion guns. I think you will find even the most liberal estimate of legal and illegal guns to be closer to 450 million. There are an estimated 250 - 300 million legally owned guns in the US, likely enough to give 1 to every man, woman, and most children over the age of 4. The BATF maintains records of all firearms manufactured, sold, and imported in the US, but not even it can tell you exactly how many are in the hands of civilians legally or illegally. It is estimated that somewhere between 60 and 100 million legal gun owners exist in the US. The reason I mention this is because I believe that is where you got your 3-4 guns per person statistic. If you use the numbers from about 2005, a study indicated there were 80 million gun owners and 260 million legally owned guns which equals 3.25 guns per gun owner.
The whole thing is just ridiculous. It spawns primarily from some type of mental disorder in the shooter-- obviously -- which really has nothing to do with the amount of guns per person in any country really. I live in texas where it's roughly believed everyone and their mother carries a gun, and it's legal in most places (granted that it has to be concealed). But not everyone has one, not everyone should have one, and in a situation like this it could have been just as dangerous as it could have been helpful.
Unfortunately I don't think there is anything that could be done about this. Perhaps the police should have done more investigations on the threats in the dorms perhaps not. Its a real shame that things can happen like this.
This is probably just another result of social oppression... VA tech, Columbine etc...
I don't think we are outreaching enough.. These social cricles of today are designed to keep people out rather than welcome them in.. School (regardless of which level) is as much a social thing as it is educational.. It is not healthy to NOT have a social circle or connections to relate to and share your problems with.. When the "pop" groups reject a student based on a materialistic factor or perhaps a deeper trait that cannot be changed (the VA Tech shooter has a speech impediment), they find other ways to deal with and cope with things on their own which USUALLY ends up with 2 or more outcasted students meeting up and becoming friends..
Nothing good will ever come out of 2 people who feel they have been wrongfully exhiled, if you will, from social endeavors and circles. They will instantly conclude that "they" are the enemy and instead of actually TRYING to join a circle, they will oppose the circles with every bone in their bodies.. And some times, if the circles start to show great disgust and ignorance (the columbine kids were picked on endlessly because of their likes of dungeons and dragons etc) then will come the emotional interference..
We are all human.. And when this emotional interference comes to a peak, we act on it (screaming, fussing, stomping etc).. Some kids may cry, others may shout and punch stuff.. While a small percentage may decide that life is not worth it anymore and seek a greater price for the circles to pay. But by this time, if no one, i mean NO ONE has shown any kind of care or interest in the troubles that these young ones endure they will ultimately decide that the world is against them and will be indescriminant in their assault.
These are the ones that will kill without mercy... Anyone and everyone who they feel were unfair to them, and usually at this point everyone would qualify...
I think instead of trying to find more ways to alienate these people who are having these types of problens (After the columbine massacre, everyone who wore trenchcoats were outwardly descriminated on and most of the time looked at as automatic "bad" people, causing of course more splits and greater social oppression).. We need to reach out to everyone and try to get over ourselves, because even though you may not even know these people before the line is crossed, you will not be invincible when they start to shoot...
We shouldn't be arguing how he got hold of the gun, we should be arguing why he used the gun the way he did.
I saw a quick story on the news about him not taking his medications making him 'erratic' they said. Sounds like a crazy off his meds.
I saw a quick story on the news about him not taking his medications making him 'erratic' they said. Sounds like a crazy off his meds.
great!
now hillary and obama are going to make sure we take our meds by hiring someone to handfeed them to us as part of the mandated healthcare package.
-I will subtlety invade your psyche-
Excuses.
Look it takes less than 10 seconds to kill 10-15 people with a machine gun, before people start to realise what's going on.
Whether every single student had a gun or not, would't have made a shit of a difference.
You guys in America keep not understanding that the problem with those mass shootings is how easy is to buy a gun over there.
When are you going to understand that having more weapons around means that there will be more loners that gonna own one and use it?
I can assure you that if buying weapons for civilians was illegal, you won't have disturbed people going around colleges shooting people.
Of course you will still have regular criminals which will be able to get a weapons anyway, but at least loners won't be able to.
Usually people that commit those massacres are bullied people with very little social skills, they won't be able to have good enough contacts with criminals to get hold of any weapons
I know owing a gun is fun, bordering the cool.
I admit that if it was legal in UK I would own one, and I will enjoy going around the country and shooting at cans of beans, so I know where you come from when you try to defend your "God damn right to own a gun".
But we have to be realistic, criminals can use a weapon better than an average Joe, so even if you possess a gun you'll have very little chance against a criminal.
Guns are for people trained like the Police and the Army, anybody else shouldn't own one.
I am not telling you how to live in your own country, but don't be surprise that those things happens, because there is nothing to be surprise about.........really.
For gods sake! How fucking ignorant are you people?!
The more guns there are, the less gun crime there is?!?!... How the fuck does that make any sense. Simple logic dictates 0 guns = 0 gun crimes. Pretty simple if you ask me.
Just look at the UK, or half of europe. Lowest gun crime, no guns available. You cannot keep bashing 200 year old quotes and use that as 'proof' that your ideas are right. Look at REAL WORLD examples. The ONLY place in the world that your equation works is Switzerland, and that's because the entire country is conscripted into the army. They have always been, and will always be, an exception to most generalisations about countries. The fact is, America ISN'T an exception to it. You have loads of guns, and loads of gun crime. The UK/EU has very few guns, and very little gun crime. Wise up already.
You're infuriating.
Difference is, owning guns is a constitutional right, the same as the right to free speech.
That and all those campuses that allow students to carry weapons have never (to my knowledge) had a school shooting. The places of highest crime have gun bans. It's laughable watching the mayer of Washington D.C. defend his handgun ban in the press... "this law has saved lives" while his city has one of the higher murder rates in the country.
Rural/suburban america has A LOT of guns. Where I live, there is NO ONE that doesn't have a gun in the house... and yet there is essentially ZERO crime.
another example: One of the highest gun ownership rates in the world is Switzerland... yet not much gun crime. The problem in America in terms of gun crime is Gangs and illegally owned firearms.
Gee, whiz.
let me guess
another constitutionalist? ½truths
Is that your admission to hating the Constitution?It seems to be the foundation for most of your arguments here. Seems to me that everything the founding fathers set up for us to enjoy and to protect you have stated as being crazy.
-----------------------
</OBAMA>
Once again we have pro vs. anti gun ranting. It is beside the point. I can at this very moment drive 30 minutes to the bad side of town and a wad of cash and buy guns, knives, and EXPLOSIVES to my heart's content, all very illegal.
Why did he do it? What drove a (by the accounts of those who knew him) a generally stable, well adjusted person to do this? I have also heard those reports that he was off his meds (just what they were hasn't been said), and that his demeanor seemed erratic in the last few days.