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How do u fight off the zerg?
fantaros
Member Posts: 394
In every pvp there have been excamples of large guilds or alliances that take over entire servers? How does AoC deal with this?
I know that guilds cannot form in-game alliances, but what is going to prevent ABC guild to "loan" a couple dozen of their elite gamers to guild XYZ in order to destroy a casual guild's keep?
How do the devs plan on stopping certain grps of people with both the resources and the determination to take over a whole server?
Comments
I dont know what systems they have implemented regarding PvP, all I know is they are writing a rule set to govern what you can and cant do in player versus player combat scenarios.
That said, one of their integral systems in PvP is the mercenary system which allows guilds to hire other players to be on either the attacking or defending side, so in that respect they cant chastise guilds 'purchasing' help... however they could limit the amount of mercenaries you hire by some method.
I have to admit im worried about this to. I dont like the possible idea of a large populated guild controlling everything that happens in the border kingdoms because they have the most people attacking everything all the time, and gathering the most resources from the zone.
Although I like the idea of other smaller guilds banding together to overthrow one large guild... in theory this will never work because communication would be poor at best and only a few guilds could pull off that type of coordination and team work.
Im staying optimimistic though, and hoping that Funcom has thought about this and put some limits somewhere into the overall system.
Alliance of guilds is a very good thing. This was in part what made SWG fun. All the politics, especially of bounty hunters. Who we where allowed and not allowed to kill, (guild orders) etc.
And also maintaining a good relationship from 1 guild to the next, aka ill cratch your back if you cratch mine.. hehe we had everything to a coupe de tate with in our guild, till fallen alliances, new alliances etc.
In the last year, our city took in another guild (we where both imperial ofcause) that gave up their city on dan because dan was a rebel stronghold, (one of the only rebel stongholds, Europe-Chrimea server was pretty much under imperial control ells where, and we kicked rebel ass at the GCW) and we of cause offered them a place in our city in exchange of, they should defend it as much as we did.
For about a half year we also had 2 big alliances, of both factions, but since the 2 largest guilds, wherent as helpfully when the smaller guilds where under attack, that alliance fell.
Alliances between guilds = GREAT
and btw i really doubt there will be such a thing as a casual guilds keep. Resource note properly, but not keep. but remember just because the guild isent casual dosent mean they dont have casual members, just that the administration is professional and on the powerful guilds, authoritarian and very respected of their members. By my experience anyway..
First of all if people like or dont like alliance beetween guilds lies in the eye of the beholder. From my experience i would say i hate that. The most vivid excample comes from shadowbane where if a zerg took over the server that server would die, server wars also had more or less the same effect on the server health.
To respond to the comment about no casual guild owning a keep, thight knit guilds who excel in communication and where each player has a distinct role and stick to that have proven to be most effective without the need to go hardcore.
I would prefer a more "official" answer if there is one to be found. Since the possibility for an alliance is there and has the potential to kill whole servers.
p.s. i have never witnessed an attempt of smaller guilds banding together in order to kill the zerg to be succesfull because people who dont know eachother cannot communicate as well, dont have distinct roles and usually end up killing each other instead of the reisdent power
In the PvE version of the PvP battlekeep regions, an entire city of mobs grows alongside yours, sending out raiding parties against you in a system quite similar to the PvP sieging.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
hmm you are confusing the city area and battlekeep boarderkingdom area, i think. A guild gets a instanced area to your city, this isent a limited number, dough max 1 per guild i assume.
The boarderkingdom battlekeeps are a limted number which guilds fight over.
Your city (insatnced area) will get a npc army trying to siege you.
The boarderkingdom will only get other players trying to siege you (on the pve and pvp).
ps. I think that on the pvp area its possible to attack an other guilds city (as well as their battlekeep ofcause), but i arent sure about that.
As far as I was aware, PvE Cities were safe from any form of attack and it was only the PvP Battlekeeps that are open to assualts from both NPC and Player attacks.
The PvE City is the backbone of your Battlekeep because you can only procure a Battlekeep after youve built up your PvE City to a certain level.
Yes it is one Battlekeep and one City per guild, but the point being made is whats stopping massive guilds wiping out everything in the Border Kingdom except their own battlekeep?
hmm you are confusing the city area and battlekeep boarderkingdom area, i think. A guild gets a instanced area to your city, this isent a limited number, dough max 1 per guild i assume.
The boarderkingdom battlekeeps are a limted number which guilds fight over.
Your city (insatnced area) will get a npc army trying to siege you.
The boarderkingdom will only get other players trying to siege you (on the pve and pvp).
ps. I think that on the pvp area its possible to attack an other guilds city (as well as their battlekeep ofcause), but i arent sure about that.
There's not much to confuse, both areas share a great deal of similarities.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
If the geographic area of the Border Kingdom is somewhat small, expect it to be dominated by one or two aliances that you are either a member of, or you'll be spending most your time in the PVE areas until you organize enough to take them on.
The good news is, with no one to fight they tend to fall apart pretty quickly and move on, assuming you can outlast them.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
There is no alliance facility right now.
Because the Border Kingdoms are Open non instanced area's, anyone can come to where the fighting is.
AoC combats the alliance thing by placing everyone in groups.
Group A = The defenders
Group B = The attackers of opposing guild
The rest can be bound into groups raid size like 24 people (multiple groups linked together - still not sure.) If you aren't grouped your vunerable to attack if your not with group A or B.
Then there is the Option for say Group C - another guild just off the main area awaiting to come in and disrupt the fight for example.
Or Group D a back up for group A or B.
Point is anything outside your group will be prone to attack and damage even though its friendly fire.
So even if Group B does have a back up in Group
then Group D is prone to attack from anyother group outside its own. The logistics of mingling up would be too hard for a massive zerg to form ie. additional people to help you in numbers.
Then theres the Merc concept, you put out a tell if your Group A or B for anyone interested in fighting for Group A or B. Payment is made first and then the Merc is transported into the fight before it happens - there is a limit on how many Merc's can have in a Battle Keep fight too.
Only Group A or Group B will receive Objectives to the fight and also buffs from either attacking or defending. And only Group A or B's kill count adds to the Ticket System in place for control of the Battlekeep.
Zerging or maybe even constant death over time will make you respawn further away from the battlefield and also heavier time limits placed on you before you can fight again.
There are many features in place to stop the Zerg. There are also many, many, tactical posibilites.
Every Battle Keep although built in the same place each time in each set area can be different each time depending on the builders / Architects in each guild. Buffs/ bonuses for the defender are directly tied to how your PvE city is doing also and what building stand in place in the PvP Battle Keep city.
The geographic area of the border kingdoms is NOT somewhat small
, and there are VERY many structures to capture, not just the 7 huge battle keeps per server there are also many resource nodes, towers, and other buildings to capture.
We gingers are a proud people, we are the noble descendants of great americans like Ron Howard and.... others...We will not be discrimated against any longer, for we are a great race!! - Eric Cartman
There is no alliance facility right now.
Because the Border Kingdoms are Open non instanced area's, anyone can come to where the fighting is.
AoC combats the alliance thing by placing everyone in groups.
Group A = The defenders
Group B = The attackers of opposing guild
The rest can be bound into groups raid size like 24 people (multiple groups linked together - still not sure.) If you aren't grouped your vunerable to attack if your not with group A or B.
Then there is the Option for say Group C - another guild just off the main area awaiting to come in and disrupt the fight for example.
Or Group D a back up for group A or B.
Point is anything outside your group will be prone to attack and damage even though its friendly fire.
So even if Group B does have a back up in Group
then Group D is prone to attack from anyother group outside its own. The logistics of mingling up would be too hard for a massive zerg to form ie. additional people to help you in numbers.
Then theres the Merc concept, you put out a tell if your Group A or B for anyone interested in fighting for Group A or B. Payment is made first and then the Merc is transported into the fight before it happens - there is a limit on how many Merc's can have in a Battle Keep fight too.
Only Group A or Group B will receive Objectives to the fight and also buffs from either attacking or defending. And only Group A or B's kill count adds to the Ticket System in place for control of the Battlekeep.
Zerging or maybe even constant death over time will make you respawn further away from the battlefield and also heavier time limits placed on you before you can fight again.
There are many features in place to stop the Zerg. There are also many, many, tactical posibilites.
Every Battle Keep although built in the same place each time in each set area can be different each time depending on the builders / Architects in each guild. Buffs/ bonuses for the defender are directly tied to how your PvE city is doing also and what building stand in place in the PvP Battle Keep city.
So there is no in-game mechanism to stop zerg guilds from what u described, except the forming of a bigger zerg...
I wonder if banning players who already have a place in borderlands from participating would work. Lets have 3 normal guilds A B C who have halls and 3 zerg guilds. Z1 Z2 Z3. Zs attack A, take them down easily Z1 gets the hall. Zs attack B, takes them down but not that easily(maybe not even, depends on how pissed A is), Z2 gets the hall. Alone Z3 tries to take down C but cant get any help because Z1 and Z2 is already trying to fend off A and B so fair fight.
Other than this i couldnt find any way to prevent zerg.( i vaguely remember from AO that they moved some elite guilds to different servers to prevent clan dominion)
ps. english is not my native lang. can anyone post me my errors. have a funny feeling about the 1st sentence. (or is that sentence least of my problems?
I need more vespene gas.
Firebats.
There is no alliance facility right now.
Because the Border Kingdoms are Open non instanced area's, anyone can come to where the fighting is.
AoC combats the alliance thing by placing everyone in groups.
Group A = The defenders
Group B = The attackers of opposing guild
The rest can be bound into groups raid size like 24 people (multiple groups linked together - still not sure.) If you aren't grouped your vunerable to attack if your not with group A or B.
Then there is the Option for say Group C - another guild just off the main area awaiting to come in and disrupt the fight for example.
Or Group D a back up for group A or B.
Point is anything outside your group will be prone to attack and damage even though its friendly fire.
So even if Group B does have a back up in Group
then Group D is prone to attack from anyother group outside its own. The logistics of mingling up would be too hard for a massive zerg to form ie. additional people to help you in numbers.
Then theres the Merc concept, you put out a tell if your Group A or B for anyone interested in fighting for Group A or B. Payment is made first and then the Merc is transported into the fight before it happens - there is a limit on how many Merc's can have in a Battle Keep fight too.
Only Group A or Group B will receive Objectives to the fight and also buffs from either attacking or defending. And only Group A or B's kill count adds to the Ticket System in place for control of the Battlekeep.
Zerging or maybe even constant death over time will make you respawn further away from the battlefield and also heavier time limits placed on you before you can fight again.
There are many features in place to stop the Zerg. There are also many, many, tactical posibilites.
Every Battle Keep although built in the same place each time in each set area can be different each time depending on the builders / Architects in each guild. Buffs/ bonuses for the defender are directly tied to how your PvE city is doing also and what building stand in place in the PvP Battle Keep city.
So there is no in-game mechanism to stop zerg guilds from what u described, except the forming of a bigger zerg...
Im really sorry if you didn't get it. Even if group B has C,D and E come help they will all be susceptible to attack from either in the way of friendly fire, its just not going to work and a "pile on" zerg kinda way.
The combat devs played shadowbane for a while - they know the flaws, they said they have designed a system which will prevent massive Zerging.
In my experience only guilds that severely lack in coorporation have problems with friendly fire. I mean aoe's are targeted right? u aim at the ground? Well if are not dumb u d better not throw an aoe at friendlies. In the worst case scenario use single target nukes. How do melee's effect friendly fire? u can just go behind a target so that barb friend of yours doesnt accidentally hit u.
I hope there is someway with mechanics built in-game to prevent zerging. But from what u guys have mentioned i see none that u cannot bypass by playing smart. Maybe they haven't released any info yet? idk to be honest, but this seems like a big part of the game to just be ignored.
Its hard enough that hardcore guilds and players will have an advantage over casual ones, but allowing them in any way, wether poor mechanics, flexible rules w/e, to take over all of the border kingdoms where most of the end-game pvp is played is something game breaking, for me at least.
p.s. if u didnt notice i already mentioned a way to move around that, just have guild E,C, D's players who will take part in the siege to change over to the defending or attacking guild, change their guild affiliation, retag like we called it in SB
Hi there,
He is some more info:
PODCASTS / RADIO INTERVIEWS (Very Revealing Information):
90 minute Interview with Grenade Radio : http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/153332
13 Minute Interview with Pwned Radio: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/152491
I believe the 90 min interview talks about grouping (question near the end)
and here are some quotes on the matter:
Using the term Siege, or Massive PvP and then the term "instance" or "population cap" seems wrong to me. So the answer is yes, I do not want to limit the number of people artificially. The problems with Shadowbane I had as a player were not from the number of people but the unplayability of the game with that number of people and the lack of collision etc which made "stacking" the uber tactic in many situations. So it's more about how we are able to handle the lots of players in the area rather than locking them out.
Further clarification on the area here: http://forums.ageofconan.com/showthread.php?t=38044
Also in Melee a weapon swing say even a Polearm would hit anythng in its weapon arc, so even having friends attacking the same foe and they are melee would be hit by a swing and therefore get hit by friendly fire because they aren't alined. Even if you body blocked stood behind a target you would still get hit from a melee weapon swung by your comrade but who isn't "officially" in your team.
A guild can't add another guild to its before a fight starts, the only way to add people that would contribute to the "ticket system" is by employing Merc's and thats limited too. There is no changing over before or after a scheduled time frame for the fight.
There will be at least 3 months of testing/ balancing in this area externally (beta) plus Funcom has teams who test this in house (large numbers) - I was told this when I was there.
For me the mechanics are already there, I can read and get a feel for how its going to be. I don't see a problem like you do with SB, its been said countless times that it wont be like SB, mechanics will be there because they don't want it to end up like SB with a massive Zergfest. I have confidence that through testing and balancing its going to be apretty awesome and fun experience.
There is no alliance facility right now.
Because the Border Kingdoms are Open non instanced area's, anyone can come to where the fighting is.
AoC combats the alliance thing by placing everyone in groups.
Group A = The defenders
Group B = The attackers of opposing guild
The rest can be bound into groups raid size like 24 people (multiple groups linked together - still not sure.) If you aren't grouped your vunerable to attack if your not with group A or B.
Then there is the Option for say Group C - another guild just off the main area awaiting to come in and disrupt the fight for example.
Or Group D a back up for group A or B.
Point is anything outside your group will be prone to attack and damage even though its friendly fire.
So even if Group B does have a back up in Group
then Group D is prone to attack from anyother group outside its own. The logistics of mingling up would be too hard for a massive zerg to form ie. additional people to help you in numbers.
Then theres the Merc concept, you put out a tell if your Group A or B for anyone interested in fighting for Group A or B. Payment is made first and then the Merc is transported into the fight before it happens - there is a limit on how many Merc's can have in a Battle Keep fight too.
Only Group A or Group B will receive Objectives to the fight and also buffs from either attacking or defending. And only Group A or B's kill count adds to the Ticket System in place for control of the Battlekeep.
Zerging or maybe even constant death over time will make you respawn further away from the battlefield and also heavier time limits placed on you before you can fight again.
There are many features in place to stop the Zerg. There are also many, many, tactical posibilites.
Every Battle Keep although built in the same place each time in each set area can be different each time depending on the builders / Architects in each guild. Buffs/ bonuses for the defender are directly tied to how your PvE city is doing also and what building stand in place in the PvP Battle Keep city.
So theoretically you can get a fresh group of PBAOE/AOE casters wait till the fight gets fully going then target both parties fighting and nuke the crap out them ! Ok, I am liking that idea
FUNCOM - putting the FUN in disFUNctional !