Originally posted by gillvane1 Originally posted by Bladin Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by jiveturkey12 Only thing im upset about is that the game isnt skill based. I really wish developers would get over the whole level grind system.
-Jive
Skill based games are very very hard to balance. And grinding skills is really no difference than grinding levels. At least you can grind levels with quests, which can be quite fun.
I've argued this before but..
SKILL BASED AND LEVEL BASED ARE THE SAME THING AT IT'S CORE. THE EXACT SAME THING. You raise heavy armor, swords, and healing magic, vs leveling a paladin. Same thing. The difference is the actual paladin could do MORE stuff then the combo spec of the skill system. Skill based isn't inherently faster leveling. Skill based leads to a game where you can create a character with your custom skill choices, ala oblivion. But at the same time, a class based game leads to more individuality between the classes. But excluding all that. Champions will be using a system where you can buy any skill but things not related to your base class cost more. First, while COH didn't keep my interest for as long as some other MMORPGs, it was a fantastic game. Great character customization (how do you improve on that?), fast, fun, good solo, good grouping, fun to Xp or do quests. I did find the grouping slightly lacking. It was fun to group, but the soloing was so easy, that grouping was just for fun, not really necessary. I like it when it's necessary. But, my biggest gripe with CoH was the pace. So fast that there was no time to chat or get to know pick up groups, because there was almost no down time, and travel required a lot of jumping or flying around buildings, etc. So, I expect great things from the team that made CoH.
I like this sort of skill system the best of all. You can make all sorts of characters, but, you don't end up with tank mages (not super hero, but you know what I'm talking about).
If any character can take any skill, then it's simple. You just min/max between defense and offense, and everyone plays the same character. But, when things not related to your base skill cost more, you can't make a tank mage or else you end up with a toon that's both a wimpy tank, and a wimpy mage. However, there's still enough leeway to add some spice to your character, and take some unusual skills. I like it. I like it alot.
I consider myself a reliable, unbiased source. I would say city of Heroes is a great grouping game.This is the secret of CoH. To level fast, you need others. To level slow, you solo Soloing cant touch a great team. That is why you see people team in City of heroes I must admit I found getting teams to help me do missions in City of Heroes really, really easy.
One step at a time. They have to find someone willing to invest in the development first, or it won't ever get made, let alone survive for three months.
If I recall, they are going to publish it themselves.
Edit: Yep, they are...says it on their front page:
LOS GATOS, CA – February 20, 2008 – Cryptic Studios™, one of the leading independent developers of Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Games (MMORPGs), announced today Champions Online™, their first ever self-developed and self-published MMORPG. Champions Online, based on the popular pen-and-paper Champions RPG, will give players the power of total customization of their hero experience while they explore a vast universe of richly detailed 3D environments. Champions Online is slated for release in Spring 2009.
Edit again: Step 2 done, Step 3...early alpha/beta, from the magazine article early alpha is partway done
It's doomed then. Vapourware.
They might be the "first ever" to succeed, but they won't be the "first ever" to have tried.
Rent in Los Gatos is expensive.
Has Jack Emmert got $50 million in his bank? No.
They either find a new publisher or they run out of money early on and accept work on a console product for Sony or something. Or sub themselves out to do texture work for the next Quake etc.
I can't think of a single successful Indy MMO, can you?
They either sell it to publisher right now, or it never happens.
To they guy who posted above, I never had trouble getting teams in COH ever. Right from the very first day. In my opinion no MMO has ever been so easy to get groups with as COH.
They weight the XP's so that teams get more XP. They weight the missions so that teams get a more challenging fight. They have questline bosses that require full teams to defeat. They have team dynamiced classes that interdepend on each other. (Healer, dps, tank, crowd control etc). They have specific LFG tools. They allow lower levels to play with higher levels , and higher levels to play with lower levels using their sudekick system. And everyone who goes on the quest gets the quest reward so they have reason to stick together.
Frankly there is no game more team friendly than COH it is the technology leader on grouping.
If I recall, they are going to publish it themselves. Edit: Yep, they are...says it on their front page: LOS GATOS, CA – February 20, 2008 – Cryptic Studios™, one of the leading independent developers of Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Games (MMORPGs), announced today Champions Online™, their first ever self-developed and self-published MMORPG. Champions Online, based on the popular pen-and-paper Champions RPG, will give players the power of total customization of their hero experience while they explore a vast universe of richly detailed 3D environments. Champions Online is slated for release in Spring 2009. Edit again: Step 2 done, Step 3...early alpha/beta, from the magazine article early alpha is partway done
It's doomed then. Vapourware.
I wouldn't say it is doomed yet. I would however pinpoint that the release date they give is most likely a final deadline, 1 they can't go beyond unless they find investors.
You have to remember they cash in profits from CoX and they sold the franchise to NCsoft. It is most certainly enough to keep them up and working up to Spring 2009, the Champion franchise itself was prolly extremely cheap if not offered freely in the hope to increase PnP sells.
My concerns about Champions would be on another level...but no points in darkening the mood, since anyway, nobody would want to hear these concerns.
Jack has many flaws, but I do believe they will be able to work until that date and then release it (if they need a publisher, I am pretty confident that most publisher would be fighting among themselves to have this title, if only for the diversity).
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
They don't have any deadlines if they are self publishing.
They give a release date to annouce to any potential publisher the time frame they expect to be able to finish the product in. They aren't going to self publish, they are doing what every unsigned studio does, self publicising to attract a publisher.
If they can get some hype up behind this title, they stabd a greater chance to get signed.
Any actual expected release date or deadlines will be negotiated or finalised at that time.
Also they didn't sell the COH franchise to NCsoft recently, they sold it to NCsoft right at the beginning of the development process, years before it was ever finished and released and they didn't sell it for the 10's of millions that are required to make a new one. They sold it for a small percentage of the profits and for the guarenteed jobs. The same as they were looking to get for this next one. The same deal as Microsoft and Marvel just dropped out of with them.
Emmert didn't think he could go it alone one month ago? What's changed?
Microsoft dropped them, that's what.
They need a publisher, hence all the press releases.
They don't have any deadlines if they are self publishing.
They give a release date to annouce to any potential publisher the time frame they expect to be able to finish the product in. They aren't going to self publish, they are doing what every unsigned studio does, self publicising to attract a publisher. If they can get some hype up behind this title, they stabd a greater chance to get signed. Any actual expected release date or deadlines will be negotiated or finalised at that time.
Also they didn't sell the COH franchise to NCsoft recently, they sold it to NCsoft right at the beginning of the development process, years before it was ever finished and released and they didn't sell it for the 10's of millions that are required to make a new one. They sold it for a small percentage of the profits and for the guarenteed jobs. The same as they were looking to get for this next one. The same deal as Microsoft and Marvel just dropped out of with them. Emmert didn't think he could go it alone one month ago? What's changed? Microsoft dropped them, that's what. They need a publisher, hence all the press releases.
Maybe.
But maybe they put a date based on how long they can pay their rent/staff on their own.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Originally posted by baff It's doomed then. Vapourware.
They might be the "first ever" to succeed, but they won't be the "first ever" to have tried.
Rent in Los Gatos is expensive. Has Jack Emmert got $50 million in his bank? No. They either find a new publisher or they run out of money early on and accept work on a console product for Sony or something. Or sub themselves out to do texture work for the next Quake etc. I can't think of a single successful Indy MMO, can you? They either sell it to publisher right now, or it never happens.
Baff, your stretching there, even for you. Cryptic has not changed locations for some time. When CoH was being created. Myself, being on the northbay area, I'm familar with Los Gatos when I was going to UCSC. Lost Gatos is close to Silicon Valley and many game companies are in that area. Heck just up the coast in Redwood City is EA games.
You know Cyptic's bank account number? Are you a Financial Consultant that has access to Jack Emmert's finances? 50 mill, is that the magic number to put out an MMO? I think you'll pulling number out of thin air.
Eve Online I believe is self published.
stop the hate. Everyone knows that Jack stole your girlfriend, wrecked your car and you can't get over it.
Myself, I reseve judgement on this endever. If they can do what CoH was set up originally, with access for all classes to all abilities, adapting Champions to their engine; I think I'll play it.
In the mean time, just putting this as one to watch for me.
your arguement is so persuasive, so filled with knowledge and insight. You back up your argument very articulately, with suggestions of improvements and raising examples to glorify your position....oh wait, you didn't
It is easier to pay your rent when you are getting paid, than when you are not getting paid.
$50 million is a pretty magic number to make an MMO yes. You might be able to do it for $20 I suppose. My point here is not to give you the exact cost to the dollar or to tell you the exact balance of Emmerts bank account, only to give you a ball park figure that demonstrates the need for a publisher. An idea of the scale of investment involved.
Even if Emmert had $50 mill of his own, he would still need a publisher, because otherwise he would have to invest his entire personal fortune himself. No one with $50 million risks losing it. Instead you put up small percentage of the money yourself and seek investment for the rest. Which is exactly what he is currently doing. A publishers job is to find that investment.
He is looking for a publisher. I don't have to be his bank manager or financial advisor to tell you that.
Cryptic are self funding until they find more work. This is the work they have for sale, if they are lucky they will get to continue with it.
Eve Online is published by MMM publishing Ltd. The studio that developed it is CCP.
What you need to understand is that Jack Emmert didn't steal my girlfriend. And even if he did, the software industry, indeed any industry, works the same way.
Just because you and I enjoyed COH, doesn't mean that Cryptic has enough money to self publish. If they don't get a publisher, you won't play it. It won't ever be made.
Baff, the girlfriend bit was there because I know how you enjoyed CoH prior to I4 for you. You seem to hold onto that moment and have not gotten past it or adapted. It's always been a sore spot.
Thanks for correcting me on the Eve info....I know there's one out there, it's tickling the back of my memory (shurg)
Los Gatos is pricy but not as bad as Daily City or Marin. Without knowing their finances and what bills Cryptic has to pay, speculating what they have is a moot point.
There was an article re: what CoH took to start. I believe it was 10 million. Any game that has not gone gold is vaperware, so yes, Champions is Vaporware. Warhammer and AoC is also vaporware...Untill they go gold. Doesn't mean we can't wish em good fortune and hope it comes out in a timely manner.
From what I've seen, I like the idea of what they plan for Champions, it's exactly how CoH was suppose to be. I was disappointed that CoH went the class system path but I've stuck with it and enjoy how it is today, even with all the changes
your arguement is so persuasive, so filled with knowledge and insight. You back up your argument very articulately, with suggestions of improvements and raising examples to glorify your position....oh wait, you didn't
I never imagined Marvel universe online being a big competetor for CoH, but Champions online will be a HUGE competitor and explains why Cryptic sold CoH.
If they do PvP right and provide a ruleset server that allows for open PvP between heroes and villians I think this game could be a huge success.
aside from the one with the cave and the ray light from above and aside from the one with "flower jungle" all these screens looks like CoX with cell shading.
It is suppossed to look pretty the same or it is theres no new content developed and they reused models and textures from the CoX engine?
I must admit I turned green and big and started smashing things when I saw MS was cancelling MUO but maybe these was for the best and finally we can get our hands on a true skill based MMO that is not 10 years old and is not crap.
And I dont really care for balance.Balance is just a concept some forum cryer invented to justify his errors selecting class/skills.The very concept of balance implies developers knows how the character will be played and that is far way beyond any human can accomplish.If theres PVP theres no balance at some point.
Originally posted by Sanctus_Mors There was an article re: what CoH took to start. I believe it was 10 million. Any game that has not gone gold is vaperware, so yes, Champions is Vaporware. Warhammer and AoC is also vaporware...Untill they go gold. Doesn't mean we can't wish em good fortune and hope it comes out in a timely manner.
That's 10 million funded by their publisher, NCsoft. Not ten million of their own personal dollars.
WarHammer and AoC have publishers. They have had publishers and heavy investment for a few years now, which is why their games are approaching timely completion while other games without funding are not being worked on. (Not only this, but their publisher didn't drop them). In the end the employee's have to eat, they have to feed their family. No money = no work.
Wishing them good fortune isn't enough. Some one has to lend them a fortune.
As for wishing it comes out in a timely manner, I need further convincing that it will come out at all. Until I see them sign with a publisher I shan't waste my breath wishing for anything from this game.
COH was great, more of the same works for me. I have a trust issue with Cryptics support, but nothing to lose on a new game. If they nerf me in a new game, I can always quit playing that one too. I don't feel any need to get past things. No desire to work through my issues. I'm a paying customer, my money is good. Provide me with what I want or I will go elsewhere.
I didn't stick with it, I enjoyed for a while, and then I enjoyed something else.
The difference the nerfing makes to my decision to buy or play the game would most likely be a question of timing. If I don't play until a year after launch, I doubt I'll get nerfed, or perhaps if I only play for a short period of time, I can be in and out before the nerf.....ect etc etc. It dampens my enthusiam, but hey, I'm the target market for this game. I own COH and Champions.
I enjoyed the class system of COH, I got to play a character of my own invention that appealed to me. I didn't feel in anyway limited by it. (Except the "need" for a travel power which really didn't suit my rationale).
If anything, I prefer the class system, it provides a more obvious team dynamic. Where a tank is a tank and we all know that, despite some minor differences to the other tanks, he can do the same job. I found the group friendliness of COH the one thing the game did better than all the others out there. But really that one is not a particular concern for me.
Lewis spent $2.5 million of his own money, plus loans of $4.5 million from his distributor, the U.S. arm of South Korea game company NCsoft, to create City of Heroes. NCsoft is spending another $18 million a year to market and operate the game and provide customer support.
Course having the money doesn't mean success, look at some of the withered fruit that EA touched. I'm sure that Cryptic has the 10 mil to continue development of Champions after they were paid to start development for Marvel Online.
Just because Marvel didn't finish devolpment doesn't mean Cryptic was not paid. It's also not a streatch of the imagination to think that Cryptic came away with some cash from NCSoft. NCSoft gaining control of CoX must have padded Cryptic's wallet.
Well, Champions is on my watch list. I just hope they don't rip off to many poses and powers from CoX. The trailer and screenshots of Champions shows one character blasting out a wave of energy/fire that looks like the top tier aoe blasts that blasters do.
your arguement is so persuasive, so filled with knowledge and insight. You back up your argument very articulately, with suggestions of improvements and raising examples to glorify your position....oh wait, you didn't
By your figures, out of a $25 million dollar investment, Lewis provided $2.5 million and NCsoft $22.5 million.
In return Lewis got to keep a share of the Copywright, which he later sold back to NCsoft. So yes he will have some money to play with. Although 25 or even 10 million is an unlikely sum, since he only owned 1/10th of it to begin with.
At the end of 2006 The American branch of NCsoft had a total Value of $34 million. (http://www.ncsoft.net/global/ir/stockinfo.aspx ) So even if Lewis owned 10% of this (as opposed to 10% of COH) we could expect him to have earned no more than $3.4 million from the sale of his share.
If I did have $10 million, I still wouldn't invest all that in one enterprise as a sole investor*, (if there is one thing millionaires know about it's money), I would seek to spread my bet by investing a small percentage of that and getting other investors to come on board and do the same, (just as he looks to have done in COH).
(*)I would spread my millions about across a number of investments so that if any one failed, I would still be a millionaire.
This is the same kind of deal he will be looking to make again.
He has until his own personal finance runs out to find another job for Cryptic. The money he is currently spending on wages and rent and buying Champions IP is his own.
This is the same sort of scenario he was in when he teamed up with NCsoft, only with one critical difference, NCsoft didn't drop him.
When he went to NCsoft, to get backing to make a video game about superheroes he hadn't just been dropped for lack of profit potential by the biggest name in software publishing, and he hadn't just been dropped for lack of profit potential by the biggest name in Superheroes franchises.
I'm not sure, but is Lewis still part of Cryptic? He was pushed back from lead design to overviewing the comic but then I've not heard anything recently about him.
I liked his original ideas for CoX but then like the article from Forbes I linked to, it started to get unwieldy, with each developer doing their own pet projects. When Emmert took over, he went to the KISS approach and axed the universal powers for the classes. I enjoy how CoX is now, but there was always a part of me that wanted the classless approach.
your arguement is so persuasive, so filled with knowledge and insight. You back up your argument very articulately, with suggestions of improvements and raising examples to glorify your position....oh wait, you didn't
"City of Heroes and City of Villains players should be assured that Cryptic Studios will be working closely with NCsoft to ensure a smooth, seamless transition," said Michael Lewis, president and co-founder of Cryptic Studios."
your arguement is so persuasive, so filled with knowledge and insight. You back up your argument very articulately, with suggestions of improvements and raising examples to glorify your position....oh wait, you didn't
Looks like a great game. Played CoV for a while, its a nice game, good graphics and fun. This game seem to be a lot better and more complete, might be really good. Hope so.
Comments
Skill based games are very very hard to balance.
And grinding skills is really no difference than grinding levels. At least you can grind levels with quests, which can be quite fun.
I've argued this before but..
SKILL BASED AND LEVEL BASED ARE THE SAME THING AT IT'S CORE. THE EXACT SAME THING.
You raise heavy armor, swords, and healing magic, vs leveling a paladin. Same thing. The difference is the actual paladin could do MORE stuff then the combo spec of the skill system.
Skill based isn't inherently faster leveling.
Skill based leads to a game where you can create a character with your custom skill choices, ala oblivion. But at the same time, a class based game leads to more individuality between the classes.
But excluding all that.
Champions will be using a system where you can buy any skill but things not related to your base class cost more.
First, while COH didn't keep my interest for as long as some other MMORPGs, it was a fantastic game. Great character customization (how do you improve on that?), fast, fun, good solo, good grouping, fun to Xp or do quests.
I did find the grouping slightly lacking. It was fun to group, but the soloing was so easy, that grouping was just for fun, not really necessary. I like it when it's necessary.
But, my biggest gripe with CoH was the pace. So fast that there was no time to chat or get to know pick up groups, because there was almost no down time, and travel required a lot of jumping or flying around buildings, etc.
So, I expect great things from the team that made CoH.
I like this sort of skill system the best of all. You can make all sorts of characters, but, you don't end up with tank mages (not super hero, but you know what I'm talking about).
If any character can take any skill, then it's simple. You just min/max between defense and offense, and everyone plays the same character.
But, when things not related to your base skill cost more, you can't make a tank mage or else you end up with a toon that's both a wimpy tank, and a wimpy mage. However, there's still enough leeway to add some spice to your character, and take some unusual skills. I like it. I like it alot.
MMORPG Maker
I consider myself a reliable, unbiased source. I would say city of Heroes is a great grouping game.
This is the secret of CoH. To level fast, you need others. To level slow, you solo
Soloing cant touch a great team. That is why you see people team in City of heroes
I must admit I found getting teams to help me do missions in City of Heroes really, really easy.
It falls down in other areas. But overall think I rated it 85 or somethiong here. I think the 'blue' side was done way better then Villains however.
So how would we go about getting champs added to the forums here?
MMORPG.com aint even listed the game yet, so i dont think the forums gonna be up til then....
Go figure.
That’s true now, but it wasn’t always.
If I recall, they are going to publish it themselves.
Edit: Yep, they are...says it on their front page:
LOS GATOS, CA – February 20, 2008 – Cryptic Studios™, one of the leading independent developers of Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Games (MMORPGs), announced today Champions Online™, their first ever self-developed and self-published MMORPG. Champions Online, based on the popular pen-and-paper Champions RPG, will give players the power of total customization of their hero experience while they explore a vast universe of richly detailed 3D environments. Champions Online is slated for release in Spring 2009.
Edit again: Step 2 done, Step 3...early alpha/beta, from the magazine article early alpha is partway done
It's doomed then. Vapourware.
They might be the "first ever" to succeed, but they won't be the "first ever" to have tried.
Rent in Los Gatos is expensive.
Has Jack Emmert got $50 million in his bank? No.
They either find a new publisher or they run out of money early on and accept work on a console product for Sony or something. Or sub themselves out to do texture work for the next Quake etc.
I can't think of a single successful Indy MMO, can you?
They either sell it to publisher right now, or it never happens.
To they guy who posted above, I never had trouble getting teams in COH ever. Right from the very first day. In my opinion no MMO has ever been so easy to get groups with as COH.
They weight the XP's so that teams get more XP. They weight the missions so that teams get a more challenging fight. They have questline bosses that require full teams to defeat. They have team dynamiced classes that interdepend on each other. (Healer, dps, tank, crowd control etc). They have specific LFG tools. They allow lower levels to play with higher levels , and higher levels to play with lower levels using their sudekick system. And everyone who goes on the quest gets the quest reward so they have reason to stick together.
Frankly there is no game more team friendly than COH it is the technology leader on grouping.
It's doomed then. Vapourware.
I wouldn't say it is doomed yet. I would however pinpoint that the release date they give is most likely a final deadline, 1 they can't go beyond unless they find investors.
You have to remember they cash in profits from CoX and they sold the franchise to NCsoft. It is most certainly enough to keep them up and working up to Spring 2009, the Champion franchise itself was prolly extremely cheap if not offered freely in the hope to increase PnP sells.
My concerns about Champions would be on another level...but no points in darkening the mood, since anyway, nobody would want to hear these concerns.
Jack has many flaws, but I do believe they will be able to work until that date and then release it (if they need a publisher, I am pretty confident that most publisher would be fighting among themselves to have this title, if only for the diversity).
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
They don't have any deadlines if they are self publishing.
They give a release date to annouce to any potential publisher the time frame they expect to be able to finish the product in. They aren't going to self publish, they are doing what every unsigned studio does, self publicising to attract a publisher.
If they can get some hype up behind this title, they stabd a greater chance to get signed.
Any actual expected release date or deadlines will be negotiated or finalised at that time.
Also they didn't sell the COH franchise to NCsoft recently, they sold it to NCsoft right at the beginning of the development process, years before it was ever finished and released and they didn't sell it for the 10's of millions that are required to make a new one. They sold it for a small percentage of the profits and for the guarenteed jobs. The same as they were looking to get for this next one. The same deal as Microsoft and Marvel just dropped out of with them.
Emmert didn't think he could go it alone one month ago? What's changed?
Microsoft dropped them, that's what.
They need a publisher, hence all the press releases.
I only have one thing to say about this game. Excelsior!
Maybe.
But maybe they put a date based on how long they can pay their rent/staff on their own.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Guarantee people are gonna complain about the graphics. Game looks pretty sweet though.
Baff, your stretching there, even for you. Cryptic has not changed locations for some time. When CoH was being created. Myself, being on the northbay area, I'm familar with Los Gatos when I was going to UCSC. Lost Gatos is close to Silicon Valley and many game companies are in that area. Heck just up the coast in Redwood City is EA games.
You know Cyptic's bank account number? Are you a Financial Consultant that has access to Jack Emmert's finances? 50 mill, is that the magic number to put out an MMO? I think you'll pulling number out of thin air.
Eve Online I believe is self published.
stop the hate. Everyone knows that Jack stole your girlfriend, wrecked your car and you can't get over it.
Myself, I reseve judgement on this endever. If they can do what CoH was set up originally, with access for all classes to all abilities, adapting Champions to their engine; I think I'll play it.
In the mean time, just putting this as one to watch for me.
your arguement is so persuasive, so filled with knowledge and insight. You back up your argument very articulately, with suggestions of improvements and raising examples to glorify your position....oh wait, you didn't
Then you know Los Gatos is a pricey area.
Rent is rent. You have to pay it.
It is easier to pay your rent when you are getting paid, than when you are not getting paid.
$50 million is a pretty magic number to make an MMO yes. You might be able to do it for $20 I suppose. My point here is not to give you the exact cost to the dollar or to tell you the exact balance of Emmerts bank account, only to give you a ball park figure that demonstrates the need for a publisher. An idea of the scale of investment involved.
Even if Emmert had $50 mill of his own, he would still need a publisher, because otherwise he would have to invest his entire personal fortune himself. No one with $50 million risks losing it. Instead you put up small percentage of the money yourself and seek investment for the rest. Which is exactly what he is currently doing. A publishers job is to find that investment.
He is looking for a publisher. I don't have to be his bank manager or financial advisor to tell you that.
Cryptic are self funding until they find more work. This is the work they have for sale, if they are lucky they will get to continue with it.
Eve Online is published by MMM publishing Ltd. The studio that developed it is CCP.
What you need to understand is that Jack Emmert didn't steal my girlfriend. And even if he did, the software industry, indeed any industry, works the same way.
Just because you and I enjoyed COH, doesn't mean that Cryptic has enough money to self publish. If they don't get a publisher, you won't play it. It won't ever be made.
More games aren't made than are.
Baff, the girlfriend bit was there because I know how you enjoyed CoH prior to I4 for you. You seem to hold onto that moment and have not gotten past it or adapted. It's always been a sore spot.
Thanks for correcting me on the Eve info....I know there's one out there, it's tickling the back of my memory (shurg)
Los Gatos is pricy but not as bad as Daily City or Marin. Without knowing their finances and what bills Cryptic has to pay, speculating what they have is a moot point.
There was an article re: what CoH took to start. I believe it was 10 million. Any game that has not gone gold is vaperware, so yes, Champions is Vaporware. Warhammer and AoC is also vaporware...Untill they go gold. Doesn't mean we can't wish em good fortune and hope it comes out in a timely manner.
From what I've seen, I like the idea of what they plan for Champions, it's exactly how CoH was suppose to be. I was disappointed that CoH went the class system path but I've stuck with it and enjoy how it is today, even with all the changes
your arguement is so persuasive, so filled with knowledge and insight. You back up your argument very articulately, with suggestions of improvements and raising examples to glorify your position....oh wait, you didn't
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/854/854285p1.html
the trailer! enjoy, looks awesome.
*ignoring baff's posts, since they are trolls*
I knew something was up when NCsoft baught CoH.
I never imagined Marvel universe online being a big competetor for CoH, but Champions online will be a HUGE competitor and explains why Cryptic sold CoH.
If they do PvP right and provide a ruleset server that allows for open PvP between heroes and villians I think this game could be a huge success.
Wish Darkfall would release.
http://www.champions-online.com/screenshots
aside from the one with the cave and the ray light from above and aside from the one with "flower jungle" all these screens looks like CoX with cell shading.
It is suppossed to look pretty the same or it is theres no new content developed and they reused models and textures from the CoX engine?
I must admit I turned green and big and started smashing things when I saw MS was cancelling MUO but maybe these was for the best and finally we can get our hands on a true skill based MMO that is not 10 years old and is not crap.
And I dont really care for balance.Balance is just a concept some forum cryer invented to justify his errors selecting class/skills.The very concept of balance implies developers knows how the character will be played and that is far way beyond any human can accomplish.If theres PVP theres no balance at some point.
WarHammer and AoC have publishers. They have had publishers and heavy investment for a few years now, which is why their games are approaching timely completion while other games without funding are not being worked on. (Not only this, but their publisher didn't drop them). In the end the employee's have to eat, they have to feed their family. No money = no work.
Wishing them good fortune isn't enough. Some one has to lend them a fortune.
As for wishing it comes out in a timely manner, I need further convincing that it will come out at all. Until I see them sign with a publisher I shan't waste my breath wishing for anything from this game.
COH was great, more of the same works for me. I have a trust issue with Cryptics support, but nothing to lose on a new game. If they nerf me in a new game, I can always quit playing that one too. I don't feel any need to get past things. No desire to work through my issues. I'm a paying customer, my money is good. Provide me with what I want or I will go elsewhere.
I didn't stick with it, I enjoyed for a while, and then I enjoyed something else.
The difference the nerfing makes to my decision to buy or play the game would most likely be a question of timing. If I don't play until a year after launch, I doubt I'll get nerfed, or perhaps if I only play for a short period of time, I can be in and out before the nerf.....ect etc etc. It dampens my enthusiam, but hey, I'm the target market for this game. I own COH and Champions.
I enjoyed the class system of COH, I got to play a character of my own invention that appealed to me. I didn't feel in anyway limited by it. (Except the "need" for a travel power which really didn't suit my rationale).
If anything, I prefer the class system, it provides a more obvious team dynamic. Where a tank is a tank and we all know that, despite some minor differences to the other tanks, he can do the same job. I found the group friendliness of COH the one thing the game did better than all the others out there. But really that one is not a particular concern for me.
Not all of the 10 mill was fronted by NCSoft.
Source Forbes.com
Course having the money doesn't mean success, look at some of the withered fruit that EA touched. I'm sure that Cryptic has the 10 mil to continue development of Champions after they were paid to start development for Marvel Online.
Just because Marvel didn't finish devolpment doesn't mean Cryptic was not paid. It's also not a streatch of the imagination to think that Cryptic came away with some cash from NCSoft. NCSoft gaining control of CoX must have padded Cryptic's wallet.
Well, Champions is on my watch list. I just hope they don't rip off to many poses and powers from CoX. The trailer and screenshots of Champions shows one character blasting out a wave of energy/fire that looks like the top tier aoe blasts that blasters do.
your arguement is so persuasive, so filled with knowledge and insight. You back up your argument very articulately, with suggestions of improvements and raising examples to glorify your position....oh wait, you didn't
NCsoft always had control of COH.
"The IP ownership was previously split between the two companies" http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=30354
By your figures, out of a $25 million dollar investment, Lewis provided $2.5 million and NCsoft $22.5 million.
In return Lewis got to keep a share of the Copywright, which he later sold back to NCsoft. So yes he will have some money to play with. Although 25 or even 10 million is an unlikely sum, since he only owned 1/10th of it to begin with.
At the end of 2006 The American branch of NCsoft had a total Value of $34 million. (http://www.ncsoft.net/global/ir/stockinfo.aspx ) So even if Lewis owned 10% of this (as opposed to 10% of COH) we could expect him to have earned no more than $3.4 million from the sale of his share.
If I did have $10 million, I still wouldn't invest all that in one enterprise as a sole investor*, (if there is one thing millionaires know about it's money), I would seek to spread my bet by investing a small percentage of that and getting other investors to come on board and do the same, (just as he looks to have done in COH).
(*)I would spread my millions about across a number of investments so that if any one failed, I would still be a millionaire.
This is the same kind of deal he will be looking to make again.
He has until his own personal finance runs out to find another job for Cryptic. The money he is currently spending on wages and rent and buying Champions IP is his own.
This is the same sort of scenario he was in when he teamed up with NCsoft, only with one critical difference, NCsoft didn't drop him.
When he went to NCsoft, to get backing to make a video game about superheroes he hadn't just been dropped for lack of profit potential by the biggest name in software publishing, and he hadn't just been dropped for lack of profit potential by the biggest name in Superheroes franchises.
I'm not sure, but is Lewis still part of Cryptic? He was pushed back from lead design to overviewing the comic but then I've not heard anything recently about him.
I liked his original ideas for CoX but then like the article from Forbes I linked to, it started to get unwieldy, with each developer doing their own pet projects. When Emmert took over, he went to the KISS approach and axed the universal powers for the classes. I enjoy how CoX is now, but there was always a part of me that wanted the classless approach.
your arguement is so persuasive, so filled with knowledge and insight. You back up your argument very articulately, with suggestions of improvements and raising examples to glorify your position....oh wait, you didn't
"City of Heroes and City of Villains players should be assured that Cryptic Studios will be working closely with NCsoft to ensure a smooth, seamless transition," said Michael Lewis, president and co-founder of Cryptic Studios."
Thanks Baff!
your arguement is so persuasive, so filled with knowledge and insight. You back up your argument very articulately, with suggestions of improvements and raising examples to glorify your position....oh wait, you didn't
Looks like a great game. Played CoV for a while, its a nice game, good graphics and fun. This game seem to be a lot better and more complete, might be really good. Hope so.