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It's not the games it's the players.
eccoton
Member UncommonPosts: 1,340
I see dozens of threads in all the different forums here at mmorpg.com about the lack of good games. I see "why are there not any good games anymore?", "What has happened to the games?", "This is all WoW's fault", "This is SOE fault". Over and over I see these types of posts. So many write about how they are waiting for that perfect game to remove all the hurt and boredom of the current list of crappy MMO's. Everyone wants a game like that special one they use to play.
I got news for you there are a lot of great games out there. The lack of passion for current mmos here by so many is your fault not the games. What has really happened is the love affair for mmos is stale for many. This has very little to do with the games themselves but with the fact they simply are not a new experience for you anymore. Remember at about 10 years old mmos are a relatively new form of entertainment. Think about it. Think back to the games you really loved. Was it the game, or was it the fact the whole experience of mmos was new and exciting for you? I believe for most it was the latter.
For me it was pre-nge SWG. I played other mmos before but it was SWG that put it all together for me and kept me up all night playing. The game was good but it was not great however it was the freshness of that sandbox experience that grabbed me and did not let go until NGE. As an older gamers I realize while there will still be great mmos coming out I will never have that same passion I did back then, no matter how good the game will be. This feeling is a bit depressing but that is really how life is. Your first great experience is what we all strive to relive but that rarely ever happens. Our first loves years latter seem prettier and better then they were. Time has that effect on us. If you really think about it, was that first great mmo really that great or was it the fact you got really hooked for the first time?
I do not present this idea to depress anyone but to point out there are indeed great games out there and you do not need to wait for some magic mystery game that will make it all ok again. That will never happen. My advice is embrace the current games but realize you are older and more experienced so how you react to the game will be different. I may never get the same feeling I had from that first kiss many years ago but the sex sure is better now then back then because I am more epxerienced. Use your exeperience over the years in mmos to explore them for what they are not what you remember them to be. Like the old song from the 60s "Love the one you're with"
Comments
It's both really.
You are right it is a little of both but I was trying to make a specific point that many seem not to realize. Some many of the games we remember that were so great, if you really think about it were not perfect games. It was our experiences that drove that feeling more then the game itself.
Maybe its true that some of what we remember so fondly is due to it being our first "kiss", but not entirely. In my own case, my first game was Lineage 1, and while there were some good parts, the game pissed me off more than entralled me, which is why I left after 6 months to play DAOC.
Now that game grabbed me good. Sure, there were some down times, I left it for a short while to play Shadowbane), but I came back and ended up playing it the most out of any games (2.5 yrs)
Since then I've played lots of other games, and fun in many of them, (even WOW) but none of them ever provided the PVP experience that DAOC did.
And that's the problem I think, there were certain features about the old games that modern games just don't contain because developers (correctly in most cases) feel they don't appeal to the mass market gamer.
Sandbox type environments, solid PVP systems with real risk/reward/suffering, interesting crafting (if such a thing is really possible <grin>). vast, non-instance worlds and freedom to develop your character with the skills that you want, and not those decided by a developer in a pre-defined role.
Sure, I've had fun with games the past few years, but I still yearn for a game today that will bring back some of the features that I loved and lost in earlier games. They currently don't exist and I can only hope one of the new games will rekindle the magic.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You are right it is a little of both but I was trying to make a specific point that many seem not to realize. Some many of the games we remember that were so great, if you really think about it were not perfect games. It was our experiences that drove that feeling more then the game itself.
Yes it's true, I remember how I hated in EQ when groups just sat on a spot waiting for the puller and killed sutff for hours and hoursm that could be seen as a game flaw, or maybe it was the players. You could see that in any level. But still, old classic EQ beats any game in any feature, in the sense that EQ was really a virtual fantasy world to live in, you suffered a lot there and where dependand on others, and others where dependand on you, while MMOGS now are just Single Player Games With Mates.
Lineage 1 may have been your first game but your first kiss was DaoC. Similar to what I said I played other mmos before pre-nge SWG but that was the first kiss fpr me.
Lineage 1 may have been your first game but your first kiss was DaoC. Similar to what I said I played other mmos before pre-nge SWG but that was the first kiss fpr me.
So the game you like is your first kiss and then doesn't count? Cute.
Lineage 1 may have been your first game but your first kiss was DaoC. Similar to what I said I played other mmos before pre-nge SWG but that was the first kiss fpr me.
So the game you like is your first kiss and then doesn't count? Cute.
I was just say that not always the first game is the one that fuels that passion. Just using a silly metaphor of the idea of a kiss for fun this is not deep thoughts with Ecco just an observation.
I agree 100% eccoton
And its just MMO players, not non-MMO players.
Non-MMO players: Look at what the game has to offer, and want to try new things.
Example: All you do is make a hole somewhere and the make another one and jump in? OK, sounds cool, lets try it.
MMO players: Look at how the game does not match their ideal, and look for any fault whatsoever.
Example: Sure there’s no grind for equipment at all and I can jump into combat whenever I want, and it’s easy to group or solo, but everything is instanced so it must lack depth. And even though there are so many ways to create characters and I could just create a new one, or I could pvp I’m going to say there is no end game just because I like to complain.
Many of the MMOs that are out are from the older generation, we are basically standing on the edge between some of the most anticipated new generation MMOs such as AoC and WAR and everyone is awaiting all the awesomeness these will feature. People are simply tired of all the old games, they want something new, something they haven't seen before; this they hope the new generation MMOs will bring them.
Lineage 1 may have been your first game but your first kiss was DaoC. Similar to what I said I played other mmos before pre-nge SWG but that was the first kiss fpr me.
So the game you like is your first kiss and then doesn't count? Cute.
The first-kiss metaphor is very clear. But anyway, you say, the first game you play and fuels that passion or whatever doesn't count because it's because it was your first experience and all was new and all that.I was just say that not always the first game is the one that fuels that passion. Just using a silly metaphor of the idea of a kiss for fun this is not deep thoughts with Ecco just an observation.
Then a guy tells you it's not so, because he didn't like hist first MMOG, but the second. And you reply saying, ok, that one doesn't count either, because that was the game the fueled your passion. That doesn't make sense, sorry, unless you only count from the third game on, but then, why?
I think it is partially because it was our first game, but it is also because the games and their communities were different back then. Players were more sociable and mature and we grouped together a lot. We viewed these games as a virtual world, not "just a game" the way the current generation of MMORPG players do. Replace the community with a community that prefers to solo and thinks "me me me" all the time and you get a boring game. As for the games, the games had more depth back then. Meaningful PvP, risk vs. reward, no instant gratification, a variety of ways to develop your character, and so on. Take DAoC for example, it was my first game. A coincidence that I fell in love with this game the way another poster fell in love with it as his SECOND game. Maybe that is because it was the game that was so awesome and not the first kiss?
In DAoC, you could log in and find a group within minutes. More likely than not, that group was interesting to talk to and friendly and you would chat your face off for hours while exploring the world and killing stuff for xp. Crafters had their crafting goals and crafting community to talk with while they crafted and their goods were actually needed in the game. PvP was a realm wide thing that everyone took pride in. No one though about "my realm points" but instead of the greater good of the realm. It was like being a fan of your favorite sports team. People would rush to defend their realm when it was under attack...although they weren't heavy PvPers. Those who loved PvP were the ones invading other realms and taking their land. You had over 40+ classes with 3 different ways to specialize in each class that granted you COMPLETELY different abilities than the other two specs of that same class. People ran around with appropriate names for the time-line and had cool guild names, not these joke guild names that are meant to offend other people or the corny ones that scream adolescence.
Now compare that game to WoW. WoW starts you off with only 8-9 choices for classes and a handful of races. The amount of races is good, but not the same variety as DAoC and not nearly the amount of classes as DAoC. General chat is way out of hand and you are insulted left and right. The only relief is to turn off General Chat and to find a guild of like-minded people. The best way to level are these quests that encourage soloing. So you spend the majority of your time soloing these boring Fed-Ex, Kill X for Y items, and etc. until max level. In-between you have these instance dungeons that are for groups, which are a blast, as long as you don't have a crappy PUG and ninja looters. You didn't have crappy PUG's in DAoC. Everyone played with skill, not to mention we didn't use the deragotory term of PUG. We just used the term group and we played like any guild group due to everyone knowing their class and spec. At level 10 in WoW you can begin specializing in talents. These talents mostly improve your ALREADY EXISTING abilities and may grant you a few more. This is a huge step down from the 40+ classes that have 3 different ways to specialize your class, having COMPLETELY different abilities from anyone else in that class who isn't your spec. At the end of the game, since WoW has an end-game, you have to join these guilds that set raid times that you must attend if you want a chance at every getting your Epic armor sets. These guilds are ran like businesses with dictator like leaders. You are more than likely guilded with people you normally wouldn't socialize with unlike in DAoC where everyone in the guild is of like-mindedness. This is unlike DAoC, where max level is a never ending conflict of defending your realm and relics.
You see, it isn't just the first kiss or experience, but also the times we were in and the way MMORPGs were built back then. Nowadays, MMORPGs are all about doing these soloable quests, not group xping, so people never get to know each other well like they used to. Nerds, Geeks, and people who just like to socialize and play RPGs aren't the only players anymore. Now you have mainstream society, who is rude, insensitive, trash talkers, unintelligent, sexist, anti-social and disgusting as your main MMORPG audience.
So sorry, but I disagree with your analysis, but at least your thinking.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
Oh yeah, blame the players, not the games that have regressed to a worse state of ingame doings and grind than the good old UO.
It's always the players fault, cuz we ain't buying crap and expect at least some evolution and better gameplay as the genre ages....
Thats so Smedley talk it makes me queasy.
You are right it is a little of both but I was trying to make a specific point that many seem not to realize. Some many of the games we remember that were so great, if you really think about it were not perfect games. It was our experiences that drove that feeling more then the game itself.
I dig this point. EQ is viewed so favorably because it is the first 3D mmorpg. I still remember the first time I fired up the beta and I go "wow".
In reality, WOW is a much much better game but we have seen lots of the elements done before.
Its not the players its the lack of new innovations in the stale boring world which is corporate mmos.
My first mmo was 10six and I loved that game back in 2000....I actually played the same game last year(now projectvisitor.com) even with its horrible graphics, because the mmo market is filled with games that I dont like. These new games are grind fests with boring game play. 10six had no grind( it had an economy granted it wasnt a very good economy) on day one you could do everything you could do in the game. The combat was never boring because it was always different, you only fought people(or player made bases) and you also got to keep what you kill.
Own, Mine, Defend, Attack, 24/7
The first MMO I played was Neverwinter Nights on AOL, and it was incredible. The PVP engine was amazing even though it's a very old game. From there on it was games like:
Meridian 59
Ultima Online
...and then EQ1 and so on and so forth from there. But I'd have to say that my "first kiss" was Ultima Online and was on the Atlantic Server in a PK guild called "Covetous Crew" aka CC. We fought guilds like The MERCS, The Pluggers, The Regulators, and AOD.
Now it was those times my friends, which will leave lifelong memories.
Yes blame the player. Where they spend their money tells devs what they want.
They are telling devs they want WoW, and WoW is what they will get.
I agree with OP.
I agree. It's totally my fault that software publisher's spent the last 5 years copying off eachother and offering nothing new and original. It's my fault that I don't want to play the same video game for 5 years. It's my fault that between John Smedley, Lord British, Brad McQuaid (and all the others who published an mmorpg in the past 4 years) that there's about as much creative talent as a cockroach swimming in a septic tank between them all.
I agree. My bad.
My first MMO was UO, It was my first kiss, first love and first sex
My second love was SWG.
the problem is we all are looking for sandbox games... but the devs are looking at wow, but most wow players are playing their first game, and haven't played a sandbox..
i won't play a story i wan't to create story... had hoped for bioware but just read that they got a story driven game...
Bla bla blabla
Did you support them by giving them money? If yes then it is your fault, if no then never mind.
I don’t President Bush for a damn thing, I blame the people that voted for him.
As MMOGs have become more mainstream, players' expectations have risen. They have also developed more clear ideas of what is fun to them. If a new game doesn't offer as many play-style options as WoW on the day of its release, it''s viewed as incomplete or "still in beta" or simply a crappy game. WoW has raised the bar as far as choice is concerned. It offers at least little of everything.
Now people expect new games to have everything WoW does but do those things better. That's not unreasonable, but much more difficult to realize for a startup game company or really any game company that doesn't have the kind of resources Blizzard has. It will be done eventually, but I don't think it's going to happen anytime in the near future. When it does, believe me, you'll know it.
Nope, sorry can't agree. If I look back on those games, I still see them as better for their content and fun factor. Not because they were my first MMOs. I went back to DAoC after playing WoW and had about 1000x more fun on it years after its release. Sadly, the population is dwindling.
The way I see it, it's funny how far back games have gone since UO and DAoC besides a few exceptions along the way (SWG).
No one is blaming anyone. I think a few of you are taking my original post a bit to seriously. This was not an in depth or cutting analysis of the state of MMOs or their players. This post was simply a light hearted look at how we all miss some of our early experiences in MMOs. Of course there are many crappy mmos out and that is not the fault of the players. Sometimes I like to post simple refective ideas about the nature of mmos and how we relate to them. I think you maybe missing the point of the post by taking it to seriously.
Thanks Dexercist I think you understand what I was saying in the original post.
Not saying it is my faulth, it is hard to control feelings, but I think I agree with the OP in many ways.
My first real MMO was anarchy online wich I played through beta and then in final, the release was less then stellar as some migth remember so I had to leave shortly after that.
But damn, every bloody second was a wow moment, I was stunned by every part of the game.
The size of it, the environment, the vistas, I felt like bloody Attenborough on galapagos.
Admittedly the character progression system in AO is still unrivalled today in my opinion and I have returned to that game many times, I ended at 210/10 on my last visit.
None the less, today it just do not hold my interest as it once did.
There is no chance, whatever freaking games is released, unless it is a holosuite from star trek, that a game will enthrall me like AO did.
If I am to be honest, had WoW or EQ2 released in their current states back in 2001, I very much doubt I would have played AO at all, or at least not as much.
I will return for the graphic update though, for the umptenth time.
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Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts.
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