3. no. It's not wrong. It's just the way it is. Even in real life, people play up to social stereotypes of one's gender to get what they want. How can one possibly suggest that a virtual world have a higher degree of morality than the real world? no way. 4. yes. Now this pisses me off. Using females and sex to sell stuff. Objectifying women... I hate that. There is enough of that in modern day commercials. It basically turns women into a piece of meat. Females excel at so many things, and consistute 50+ percent of the worlds population, and hey, I saw my 3 kids being born.... no way in hell a guy could deal with that.
There are a million things I can say to other points in this thread, but this struck me as a big one.
If you're so against the objectifying of women, why are you objectifying the representation of one that you control in the eyes of the people you manipulate for gain? You also forgot the last question in my last post.
What benefits does the flexibility of this choice create when taking place in an environment that decreases a number of social inhibitions and how do we overcome the disadvantages?
Think worst case scenario for interests' sake.
~~~~~ "Big surprise... there was no protection by this urban light..."
3. no. It's not wrong. It's just the way it is. Even in real life, people play up to social stereotypes of one's gender to get what they want. How can one possibly suggest that a virtual world have a higher degree of morality than the real world? no way. 4. yes. Now this pisses me off. Using females and sex to sell stuff. Objectifying women... I hate that. There is enough of that in modern day commercials. It basically turns women into a piece of meat. Females excel at so many things, and consistute 50+ percent of the worlds population, and hey, I saw my 3 kids being born.... no way in hell a guy could deal with that.
There are a million things I can say to other points in this thread, but this struck me as a big one.
1. If you're so against the objectifying of women, why are you objectifying the representation of one that you control in the eyes of the people you manipulate for gain? You also forgot the last question in my last post.
2. What benefits does the flexibility of this choice create when taking place in an environment that decreases a number of social inhibitions and how do we overcome the disadvantages?
Think worst case scenario for interests' sake.
1. Why would I practice something that objectifies women when I'm against it? Let me preface by saying that I do NOT think playing a female toon means I'm objectifying women, and I don't think pretending to be a female toon to get some kid to give me a good item is stealing. Maybe he got a good feeling from it! Maybe his overall fantasy experience and enjoyment of the game increased?! Who are we to say otherwise?
(NOTE: I was on the objectifying thing because of how game devs make the female toons look like hookers, responding to your 4th question. Playing a sexy acting female toon is not what I was referring to, as I answered no to the question before that with reasons. So for the record, I do not grant that I've actually objectified women... games and commercials have.).
However, I will play along with your categorizations.... here goes: There are numerous reasons I would do such a thing: I'm a hypocrite. I'm selfish and greedy. My shoes are too tight and heart is 3 sizes too small. I want young people to get used to being let down, to feel the negativity of disappointment, to not just think, but know that there is no god, no morals, and they are soon to die and turn to dust, and there is no meaning or morality in life. But I guess the biggest reason is: because I can. (balls in your court now, to show why someone who thinks like this should not be in your world. What you gonna do? ban me? lol)
2. I'm trying to wrap my head around your phrasing of the question. There are pros and cons of letting people play a gender different than what they are in real life. (what are they?). And how do we eliminate and/or minimize the cons while keeping the pros.... is that right?
PROS: It lets people explore life from the other side. To imagine what it would feel like to be a female in a social setting, with nothing but teenage boys hitting on you about every topic. I think this would be a beneficial educational experience. It also let's one explore the degrees and methods that could be used to manipulate the opposite sex to one's advantage; and from that, be better able to recognize said activities in real life. And of course there is the pixelated look... i.e. personally, I rather look at a female's ass than male's... oh well.
CONS: And what are the cons? I believe if you are going to say they must be minimized, then you should at least list a few don't you think? The only one I could think of, (you said think worst case), is that a pedophile acts like a female, induces some kid player to meet outside of game, then rapes and kills him (stuff like that).....
Ok. That's bad. Definately a con. How do you minimize that? You NEVER meet anyone outside of game without a group at a minimum, and you always assume that one's digital self image (using matrix terminology i think) has NOTHING to do with one's real life existence, (something numerous others here (not just me) have been saying over and over). The onus is on the individual, as it is with all social interaction (email, myspace, and MMOs). Of course we can find and lock up pedophiles and we should, but ultimately, we need to teach everyone, starting at age 2, to not talk to strangers....
What other cons or disadvantages are you referring to?
One interesting difference I've noted in players is that some see their characters as extensions of themselves, while others do not. I play female characters sometimes, and will think of my character as "she," not "I." Third person. The scantily clad elven babe I have total control over.
If I thought my character was supposed to represent ME, I'd be a lot more uncomfortable running around as the wrong gender. Yet then some people call my character a he, in public chat, meaning me? Or they call me a she in tells, as if I'm my character? The difference of perspective can get a little weird.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
I would have to say anyone that tries to separate what you do while you are at your computer and what you do anywhere else into separate worlds are the ones that need evaluation. Players are played by REAL people, They spend REAL time working on them. That is not pretend. Now when you look at games like second life where pixel items cost real money, and those thing provide REAL income for those people, and People can Really get sued over things in the game, the reality of this issue becomes even more clear. Who ever came up with the idea that just because you do it on a computer it isn't real? That in itself is the thing that is crazy.
I have stayed out of this thread ever since my dear friend Devil here became so active, but I must comment at this point. (I will try not to step on your toes like in the last thread we bantered on however) At any rate, as I have always been clear about, both in games and on this forum, I am a male. I am married. I play games with my family. It is common place for me to say "A family that plays together, stays together" and on that premise alone, I will argue this point til the day you die (Coz I will outlive anyone who is obviously such a moron) I am a REAL person, playing a real GAME. I play a role while in said games. Be it that of male, female, warrior, magician, or intergalactic applepie-saber wielding jedi... etc. It is QUITE easy to see that these things are not real. For anyone to take them so seriously and so real is rather ignorant, or juvenile. I will let you decide which category you fit in better. People spend REAL time of their lives playing games like monopoly. That does not make anyone, nor does it imply that anyone wishes to be, money grubbing investment bankers. It means that people play a game for the sake of enjoyment. As far as people opening law suits against people who play online games... that shows the level of their idiocy also. I do not live my life to cater to idiots, and will not conform to their petty small mindedness. That goes for lawsuits, or people who treat online games as their personal corner strweet bar and want to go lookin for some easy ass.
Quickly, to address a comment a couple people made in earlier posts, It is not the people who are males playing females, or females playing males that truly have a "Problem" so much as the people who are sitting at their computers and see a "hot chick" saunter by and decide they should try to hit them up for some action outside of the realm of the actual game world. If however a male player playing a male toon see's a female toon in a game and decides to approach them... in game, that is perfectly acceptable. When you sign into a game as a toon, you sign in to that "reality" (I can hear the flames already) and must accept the ups and downs that come with it. Be it that some male pig is always hitting on you (Women and Men deal with it daily in the real world, get used to it and stop whining) or that some alleged "young female" is always asking for your stuff. (Have kids? Nuff said)
In the end, if you happen to encounter a shallow mind who does not want to talk to you because you are a female playing a male, or a male playing a female... quite frankly, you are better off without them. It is the closed minded people who try to segregate everyone and place everyone in their own little niche boxes and keep people from just being what they are... another multi-faceted individual that make the world a worse place. Racial, gender, and religious bias and hate anyone? No thanks. I get enough in the real world. I have no room for another hitler to rise up in a game setting.
Originally posted by Dameonk Glad to contribute to an interesting poll. I am male and I have always made male characters. In-fact, in some Korean MMO games that force you to be female to be the type of class that I want to play I just quit and uninstall right there. I consider my character an extension of my own person & want it to resemble something close to myself, or at least someone that I would want to be. My "avatar", as it were.
You hit the nail on the head there on what I am like as well.
Why not ask players if they're negro or jewish in real life?
I mean, can you imagine? That guy playing a white mage MIGHT ACTUALLY BE A BLACK PERSON, or EVEN A JEW!!111 How outrageous would if be if they misled you into believing otherwise??
Does this sound offensive, prejudiced, or even ridiculous to you? Cool, now we're on the same page.
Seriously, instead of worrying about the real-life gender of someone's pixelated avatar, perhaps you should be more concerned if they're even old enough to have pubic hair?
Why not ask players if they're negro or jewish in real life?
I mean, can you imagine? That guy playing a white mage MIGHT ACTUALLY BE A BLACK PERSON, or EVEN A JEW!!111 How outrageous would if be if they misled you into believing otherwise??
Does this sound offensive, prejudiced, or even ridiculous to you? Cool, now we're on the same page.
Seriously, instead of worrying about the real-life gender of someone's pixelated avatar, perhaps you should be more concerned if they're even old enough to have pubic hair?
I'm a guy and I've played both male and female toons. I pick them according to the feel of the game and the givern circumstances.
When I play mmo's or games with multiplayer capability I never give it a second thought weather the person or people were male or female or as Sunder so eloquently put it apple pie saber wielding jedi. I realise they are people and live real lives but I don't go in there with intentions of making relationships to the point of meeting them in real life. I tend to keep my game life and real life separate but I still have friends that I've known for 10 years, that I've gone to highschool with and play games with. I guess I just play my games with different perspective then some of the posters here. While I played a female toon I've had horny guys hit on my toon but I just told them I had a crank and they hit the ground running. I did not play the female toon because I wanted free stuff from hormonal adolescants but because I thought making a female night elf in WoW just fit better into the ideas I had when I thought rogue. It fit the profile more then the male did IMO.
I choose gender/race/whatever other variable based on my visions and ideas that best represent what I want to play.
No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-
Why not ask players if they're negro or jewish in real life?
I mean, can you imagine? That guy playing a white mage MIGHT ACTUALLY BE A BLACK PERSON, or EVEN A JEW!!111 How outrageous would if be if they misled you into believing otherwise??
Does this sound offensive, prejudiced, or even ridiculous to you? Cool, now we're on the same page.
Seriously, instead of worrying about the real-life gender of someone's pixelated avatar, perhaps you should be more concerned if they're even old enough to have pubic hair?
I played WoW for a long time playing both male and female characters. It just doesn't matter. For the most part, I was communicating with people who's avatars I never saw. Despite what a lot of people wish, people generally don't role play in role playing games. It has never once bothered me or anyone else I know for people to play as the opposite gender. I most often guess someone's gender based on what they say, not by how their animated avatar looks like. To be honest, if someone got offended that I played a female character, I would laugh in their face. People shouldn't be so easily offended, it's silly and pointless.
I am male and I have always made male characters. In-fact, in some Korean MMO games that force you to be female to be the type of class that I want to play I just quit and uninstall right there.
I consider my character an extension of my own person & want it to resemble something close to myself, or at least someone that I would want to be. My "avatar", as it were.
You hit the nail on the head there on what I am like as well.
@ Dameonk How is it that you can say this and get a positive reply? Every time I have mentioned that I am exactly the same way as you say you are, everyone calls me a homophobe and flames me, lol, wtf?
"It is in your nature to do one thing correctly; Before me, you rightfully tremble. But, fear is not what you owe me. You owe me awe." ~Francis Dolarhyde
Why not ask players if they're negro or jewish in real life?
I mean, can you imagine? That guy playing a white mage MIGHT ACTUALLY BE A BLACK PERSON, or EVEN A JEW!!111 How outrageous would if be if they misled you into believing otherwise??
Does this sound offensive, prejudiced, or even ridiculous to you? Cool, now we're on the same page.
Why not?
I'm bald, all my toons are bald.
I'm white all my toons are white. (Except the orcs)
I believe that black people enjoy the option to play black people in the game. People want characters they can associate themselves with.
It's not about asking people what sex or race or age they are, it's about when given the option to represent this, people misrepresenting it.
Do you have a problem with who you are? Is there something you are trying to escape?
Why not ask players if they're negro or jewish in real life?
I mean, can you imagine? That guy playing a white mage MIGHT ACTUALLY BE A BLACK PERSON, or EVEN A JEW!!111 How outrageous would if be if they misled you into believing otherwise??
Does this sound offensive, prejudiced, or even ridiculous to you? Cool, now we're on the same page.
Why not?
I'm bald, all my toons are bald.
I'm white all my toons are white. (Except the orcs)
I believe that black people enjoy the option to play black people in the game. People want characters they can associate themselves with.
It's not about asking people what sex or race or age they are, it's about when given the option to represent this, people misrepresenting it.
Do you have a problem with who you are? Is there something you are trying to escape?
In a social enviroment, why be a fake?
Uh, because it's a game, and it's not real?
It's not like you are at a bar dressed up like a girl when you are actually a bald guy and trying to pick up guys. It's a video game where more than likely you will never ever see the people are are interacting with in person, so why try to be "real"? Nobody cares if you are bald in real life, a guy or a girl in real life, or if you have hair down to your ass. It's a game. Play whatever you think is fun. What's the point in making a toon that looks just like you? You can just walk outside and be you, why do it in a game?
It's an MMORPG, not Match.com. On Match.com you probably want to say you are bald if you are really bald. Otherwise your date is in for a surprise if you say you have long curly hair. On an MMORPG, it's not really important.
Sure it's a social atmosphere but I don't go into games with the intent to find women and chat them up for the sake of making some sort of romantic connection, which to me seems to be the point of half of these people's posts. Mind you, I don't mind if you play a game for that purpose all the power to you. I've known people who have met in a game and now live happily together, I am just not one of them. Since I am not out to find the special someone in a game, I play what I think is fun. I've met women who play male characters and never gave it a second thought. I just figured they were playing a game and were having fun and that's really all that matters to me.
No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-
It's not about asking people what sex or race or age they are, it's about when given the option to represent this, people misrepresenting it. Do you have a problem with who you are? Is there something you are trying to escape? In a social enviroment, why be a fake?
Because like you, I was once bald, but I've yet to find an MMO that will let me accurately show off my nice thick Chia Head I've grown over the last few years.
Vhaln summed it up nicely a few pages back... some people view these game characters as representations of themself, and some view the avatars as fictional pretend characters. We can't really say one is right and other is wrong; to each their own. There could be a few points of issue when you cross that boundary between the virtual play world and the real world, but those are solved by everyone just using their head and realizing the difference between the two.
And like already well stated, it's not just about gender, it's about race, religion, idealogy, good-and-evil. I've befriended numerous evil types in games, backstabbing, etc, who turned out to be considerate loyal friend types in real life. They were obviously pretending in the game.
But ultimately, I think by definition and the very nature of what we are talking about, a virtual world where you make a character who does stuff that I would bet, you could never do, or at least that is 90% different than what you really are.... that the view that it's a pretend world is the predominate view held by most people playing an MMO.
(i.e. I personally don't own any swords, I've yet to throw a real fireball, I can't stealth invisible and backstab, I don't really summon demons, my shoulders are not 4 feet wide, my biceps not that big, my hair is not purple except on fridays, etc etc)
Ugh That is the problem with men. They think that every girl wants one. Sure I like hanging out with them, they can be quite entertaining sometimes, but Not every woman wants a man comming in trying to take over their lives. Why is it when a man sees a happy woman he wants to come in and try to take over? Makes a girl feel like she is being trapped. If men could get over their control issues and stop smothering women they might actually want to keep them around. Fyi .. I do not need any more men , I have enough to annoy me as it is .
Ugh That is the problem with men. They think that every girl wants one. Sure I like hanging out with them, they can be quite entertaining sometimes, but Not every woman wants a man comming in trying to take over their lives. Why is it when a man sees a happy woman he wants to come in and try to take over? Makes a girl feel like she is being trapped. If men could get over their control issues and stop smothering women they might actually want to keep them around. Fyi .. I do not need any more men , I have enough to annoy me as it is .
Why not ask players if they're negro or jewish in real life?
I mean, can you imagine? That guy playing a white mage MIGHT ACTUALLY BE A BLACK PERSON, or EVEN A JEW!!111 How outrageous would if be if they misled you into believing otherwise??
Does this sound offensive, prejudiced, or even ridiculous to you? Cool, now we're on the same page.
Why not?
I'm bald, all my toons are bald.
I'm white all my toons are white. (Except the orcs)
I believe that black people enjoy the option to play black people in the game. People want characters they can associate themselves with.
It's not about asking people what sex or race or age they are, it's about when given the option to represent this, people misrepresenting it.
Do you have a problem with who you are? Is there something you are trying to escape?
In a social enviroment, why be a fake?
Are you an elf in real life? Do you routinely blast space aliens and/or shoot fire from your fingertips? Must you be a Nazi or white supremacist if you choose to play anything besides allied forces in a WWII game?
Availing yourself of an opportunity to "escape" absolute reality in a recreational form of entertainment means you're a "fake" and have a "problem" with who you are?
When did imagination, escapism, and fantasy become taboo... in of all things, gaming??
What precisely are you expecting from this "social environment" wherein my genitalia, race, and other real-life attributes are of paramount concern and interest?
You do realize we're talking about video games, not online dating services, right?
Ugh That is the problem with men. They think that every girl wants one. Sure I like hanging out with them, they can be quite entertaining sometimes, but Not every woman wants a man comming in trying to take over their lives. Why is it when a man sees a happy woman he wants to come in and try to take over? Makes a girl feel like she is being trapped. If men could get over their control issues and stop smothering women they might actually want to keep them around. Fyi .. I do not need any more men , I have enough to annoy me as it is .
this from the devil who likes whips and chains and met her bf on an online game....
Originally posted by airhead CONS: And what are the cons? I believe if you are going to say they must be minimized, then you should at least list a few don't you think? The only one I could think of, (you said think worst case), is that a pedophile acts like a female, induces some kid player to meet outside of game, then rapes and kills him (stuff like that)..... Ok. That's bad. Definately a con. How do you minimize that? You NEVER meet anyone outside of game without a group at a minimum, and you always assume that one's digital self image (using matrix terminology i think) has NOTHING to do with one's real life existence, (something numerous others here (not just me) have been saying over and over). The onus is on the individual, as it is with all social interaction (email, myspace, and MMOs). Of course we can find and lock up pedophiles and we should, but ultimately, we need to teach everyone, starting at age 2, to not talk to strangers.... What other cons or disadvantages are you referring to?
Sorry I'm short on time, I've been doing a lot scripting lately and not had time to post, so I'll just try to address this one quick. I agree with a number of your pros, but will drag in some cons to maintain the level of discussion.
When assuming a gender, you will get automatically and unconsciously judged by it. Cons based on some of your own examples?
Let’s take the hypothetical of that teenage boy that’s been flirted with for stuff that has been brought up? Maybe he felt good? Maybe the experience suddenly gave him the confidence to face a real woman? Maybe the misconception got of how things work hurts his chances worse. Example I’ve experienced was a sweet but awkward boy who didn’t realize that just because the cute girl online was impressed by the shiny weapons he gave her, I was more interested in social graces then high level equipment.
On the predatorial note, it doesn’t even quite have to be that dramatic. One example I have some knowledge of but I’m not inclined to go into too much detail about involves cyber stalking. Simply boiled down to the fact that when the victim was on the look out for a man it’s just harder to spot them when they’re not in that skin. Even if the person doesn’t give away deeply personal or critical information, any contact still feeds the stalker’s obsession.
Another con that can be argued but is highly intangible is the idea generalized perceptions. By acting up stereotypes, you risk maintaining them when they aren’t necessarily true anymore. Manipulation of that sort still exists, but those that use it… well, it’s another gender gap closing.
I’ll try to do more when time isn’t so tight.
~~~~~ "Big surprise... there was no protection by this urban light..."
Maybe it should be that you should be required to prove your gender before being allowed to choose what gender you play in an MMORPG.
I could careless what gender the player is behind a toon, and it really doesn't bother me, but for some it seems to make a difference. Either way I wouldn't care if I had to prove my gender. How about the rest of you?
Comments
If you're so against the objectifying of women, why are you objectifying the representation of one that you control in the eyes of the people you manipulate for gain? You also forgot the last question in my last post.
What benefits does the flexibility of this choice create when taking place in an environment that decreases a number of social inhibitions and how do we overcome the disadvantages?
Think worst case scenario for interests' sake.
~~~~~
"Big surprise... there was no protection by this urban light..."
There are a million things I can say to other points in this thread, but this struck me as a big one.1. If you're so against the objectifying of women, why are you objectifying the representation of one that you control in the eyes of the people you manipulate for gain? You also forgot the last question in my last post.
2. What benefits does the flexibility of this choice create when taking place in an environment that decreases a number of social inhibitions and how do we overcome the disadvantages?
Think worst case scenario for interests' sake.
1. Why would I practice something that objectifies women when I'm against it? Let me preface by saying that I do NOT think playing a female toon means I'm objectifying women, and I don't think pretending to be a female toon to get some kid to give me a good item is stealing. Maybe he got a good feeling from it! Maybe his overall fantasy experience and enjoyment of the game increased?! Who are we to say otherwise?
(NOTE: I was on the objectifying thing because of how game devs make the female toons look like hookers, responding to your 4th question. Playing a sexy acting female toon is not what I was referring to, as I answered no to the question before that with reasons. So for the record, I do not grant that I've actually objectified women... games and commercials have.).
However, I will play along with your categorizations.... here goes: There are numerous reasons I would do such a thing: I'm a hypocrite. I'm selfish and greedy. My shoes are too tight and heart is 3 sizes too small. I want young people to get used to being let down, to feel the negativity of disappointment, to not just think, but know that there is no god, no morals, and they are soon to die and turn to dust, and there is no meaning or morality in life. But I guess the biggest reason is: because I can. (balls in your court now, to show why someone who thinks like this should not be in your world. What you gonna do? ban me? lol)
2. I'm trying to wrap my head around your phrasing of the question. There are pros and cons of letting people play a gender different than what they are in real life. (what are they?). And how do we eliminate and/or minimize the cons while keeping the pros.... is that right?
PROS: It lets people explore life from the other side. To imagine what it would feel like to be a female in a social setting, with nothing but teenage boys hitting on you about every topic. I think this would be a beneficial educational experience. It also let's one explore the degrees and methods that could be used to manipulate the opposite sex to one's advantage; and from that, be better able to recognize said activities in real life. And of course there is the pixelated look... i.e. personally, I rather look at a female's ass than male's... oh well.
CONS: And what are the cons? I believe if you are going to say they must be minimized, then you should at least list a few don't you think? The only one I could think of, (you said think worst case), is that a pedophile acts like a female, induces some kid player to meet outside of game, then rapes and kills him (stuff like that).....
Ok. That's bad. Definately a con. How do you minimize that? You NEVER meet anyone outside of game without a group at a minimum, and you always assume that one's digital self image (using matrix terminology i think) has NOTHING to do with one's real life existence, (something numerous others here (not just me) have been saying over and over). The onus is on the individual, as it is with all social interaction (email, myspace, and MMOs). Of course we can find and lock up pedophiles and we should, but ultimately, we need to teach everyone, starting at age 2, to not talk to strangers....
What other cons or disadvantages are you referring to?
One interesting difference I've noted in players is that some see their characters as extensions of themselves, while others do not. I play female characters sometimes, and will think of my character as "she," not "I." Third person. The scantily clad elven babe I have total control over.
If I thought my character was supposed to represent ME, I'd be a lot more uncomfortable running around as the wrong gender. Yet then some people call my character a he, in public chat, meaning me? Or they call me a she in tells, as if I'm my character? The difference of perspective can get a little weird.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Quickly, to address a comment a couple people made in earlier posts, It is not the people who are males playing females, or females playing males that truly have a "Problem" so much as the people who are sitting at their computers and see a "hot chick" saunter by and decide they should try to hit them up for some action outside of the realm of the actual game world. If however a male player playing a male toon see's a female toon in a game and decides to approach them... in game, that is perfectly acceptable. When you sign into a game as a toon, you sign in to that "reality" (I can hear the flames already) and must accept the ups and downs that come with it. Be it that some male pig is always hitting on you (Women and Men deal with it daily in the real world, get used to it and stop whining) or that some alleged "young female" is always asking for your stuff. (Have kids? Nuff said)
In the end, if you happen to encounter a shallow mind who does not want to talk to you because you are a female playing a male, or a male playing a female... quite frankly, you are better off without them. It is the closed minded people who try to segregate everyone and place everyone in their own little niche boxes and keep people from just being what they are... another multi-faceted individual that make the world a worse place. Racial, gender, and religious bias and hate anyone? No thanks. I get enough in the real world. I have no room for another hitler to rise up in a game setting.
maybe Devil is in need of a man LOL
You hit the nail on the head there on what I am like as well.
-Azure Prower
http://www.youtube.com/AzurePrower
Again, why stop at merely gender?
Why not ask players if they're negro or jewish in real life?
I mean, can you imagine? That guy playing a white mage MIGHT ACTUALLY BE A BLACK PERSON, or EVEN A JEW!!111 How outrageous would if be if they misled you into believing otherwise??
Does this sound offensive, prejudiced, or even ridiculous to you? Cool, now we're on the same page.
Seriously, instead of worrying about the real-life gender of someone's pixelated avatar, perhaps you should be more concerned if they're even old enough to have pubic hair?
Pedophilia trumps homophobia in my book.
I'm a virtual transsexual most of the time.
I'm a guy and I've played both male and female toons. I pick them according to the feel of the game and the givern circumstances.
When I play mmo's or games with multiplayer capability I never give it a second thought weather the person or people were male or female or as Sunder so eloquently put it apple pie saber wielding jedi. I realise they are people and live real lives but I don't go in there with intentions of making relationships to the point of meeting them in real life. I tend to keep my game life and real life separate but I still have friends that I've known for 10 years, that I've gone to highschool with and play games with. I guess I just play my games with different perspective then some of the posters here. While I played a female toon I've had horny guys hit on my toon but I just told them I had a crank and they hit the ground running. I did not play the female toon because I wanted free stuff from hormonal adolescants but because I thought making a female night elf in WoW just fit better into the ideas I had when I thought rogue. It fit the profile more then the male did IMO.
I choose gender/race/whatever other variable based on my visions and ideas that best represent what I want to play.
No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-
You and god mate, you and god! Write a book you'll make billions
God never mention anywhere that he/she understand the female psyche...
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Very well said, my friend.
I played WoW for a long time playing both male and female characters. It just doesn't matter. For the most part, I was communicating with people who's avatars I never saw. Despite what a lot of people wish, people generally don't role play in role playing games. It has never once bothered me or anyone else I know for people to play as the opposite gender. I most often guess someone's gender based on what they say, not by how their animated avatar looks like. To be honest, if someone got offended that I played a female character, I would laugh in their face. People shouldn't be so easily offended, it's silly and pointless.
You hit the nail on the head there on what I am like as well.
@ Dameonk How is it that you can say this and get a positive reply? Every time I have mentioned that I am exactly the same way as you say you are, everyone calls me a homophobe and flames me, lol, wtf?
"It is in your nature to do one thing correctly; Before me, you rightfully tremble. But, fear is not what you owe me. You owe me awe." ~Francis Dolarhyde
Why not?
I'm bald, all my toons are bald.
I'm white all my toons are white. (Except the orcs)
I believe that black people enjoy the option to play black people in the game. People want characters they can associate themselves with.
It's not about asking people what sex or race or age they are, it's about when given the option to represent this, people misrepresenting it.
Do you have a problem with who you are? Is there something you are trying to escape?
In a social enviroment, why be a fake?
You and god mate, you and god! Write a book you'll make billions
God never mention anywhere that he/she understand the female psyche...
Best not to. Lock them in the cupboard until their brains shut down.
Why not?
I'm bald, all my toons are bald.
I'm white all my toons are white. (Except the orcs)
I believe that black people enjoy the option to play black people in the game. People want characters they can associate themselves with.
It's not about asking people what sex or race or age they are, it's about when given the option to represent this, people misrepresenting it.
Do you have a problem with who you are? Is there something you are trying to escape?
In a social enviroment, why be a fake?
Uh, because it's a game, and it's not real?
It's not like you are at a bar dressed up like a girl when you are actually a bald guy and trying to pick up guys. It's a video game where more than likely you will never ever see the people are are interacting with in person, so why try to be "real"? Nobody cares if you are bald in real life, a guy or a girl in real life, or if you have hair down to your ass. It's a game. Play whatever you think is fun. What's the point in making a toon that looks just like you? You can just walk outside and be you, why do it in a game?
It's an MMORPG, not Match.com. On Match.com you probably want to say you are bald if you are really bald. Otherwise your date is in for a surprise if you say you have long curly hair. On an MMORPG, it's not really important.
Sure it's a social atmosphere but I don't go into games with the intent to find women and chat them up for the sake of making some sort of romantic connection, which to me seems to be the point of half of these people's posts. Mind you, I don't mind if you play a game for that purpose all the power to you. I've known people who have met in a game and now live happily together, I am just not one of them. Since I am not out to find the special someone in a game, I play what I think is fun. I've met women who play male characters and never gave it a second thought. I just figured they were playing a game and were having fun and that's really all that matters to me.
No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-
Because like you, I was once bald, but I've yet to find an MMO that will let me accurately show off my nice thick Chia Head I've grown over the last few years.
Vhaln summed it up nicely a few pages back... some people view these game characters as representations of themself, and some view the avatars as fictional pretend characters. We can't really say one is right and other is wrong; to each their own. There could be a few points of issue when you cross that boundary between the virtual play world and the real world, but those are solved by everyone just using their head and realizing the difference between the two.
And like already well stated, it's not just about gender, it's about race, religion, idealogy, good-and-evil. I've befriended numerous evil types in games, backstabbing, etc, who turned out to be considerate loyal friend types in real life. They were obviously pretending in the game.
But ultimately, I think by definition and the very nature of what we are talking about, a virtual world where you make a character who does stuff that I would bet, you could never do, or at least that is 90% different than what you really are.... that the view that it's a pretend world is the predominate view held by most people playing an MMO.
(i.e. I personally don't own any swords, I've yet to throw a real fireball, I can't stealth invisible and backstab, I don't really summon demons, my shoulders are not 4 feet wide, my biceps not that big, my hair is not purple except on fridays, etc etc)
Ugh That is the problem with men. They think that every girl wants one. Sure I like hanging out with them, they can be quite entertaining sometimes, but Not every woman wants a man comming in trying to take over their lives. Why is it when a man sees a happy woman he wants to come in and try to take over? Makes a girl feel like she is being trapped. If men could get over their control issues and stop smothering women they might actually want to keep them around. Fyi .. I do not need any more men , I have enough to annoy me as it is .
Ugh That is the problem with men. They think that every girl wants one. Sure I like hanging out with them, they can be quite entertaining sometimes, but Not every woman wants a man comming in trying to take over their lives. Why is it when a man sees a happy woman he wants to come in and try to take over? Makes a girl feel like she is being trapped. If men could get over their control issues and stop smothering women they might actually want to keep them around. Fyi .. I do not need any more men , I have enough to annoy me as it is .
Hmmmm
Why not?
I'm bald, all my toons are bald.
I'm white all my toons are white. (Except the orcs)
I believe that black people enjoy the option to play black people in the game. People want characters they can associate themselves with.
It's not about asking people what sex or race or age they are, it's about when given the option to represent this, people misrepresenting it.
Do you have a problem with who you are? Is there something you are trying to escape?
In a social enviroment, why be a fake?
Are you an elf in real life? Do you routinely blast space aliens and/or shoot fire from your fingertips? Must you be a Nazi or white supremacist if you choose to play anything besides allied forces in a WWII game?
Availing yourself of an opportunity to "escape" absolute reality in a recreational form of entertainment means you're a "fake" and have a "problem" with who you are?
When did imagination, escapism, and fantasy become taboo... in of all things, gaming??
What precisely are you expecting from this "social environment" wherein my genitalia, race, and other real-life attributes are of paramount concern and interest?
You do realize we're talking about video games, not online dating services, right?
Ugh That is the problem with men. They think that every girl wants one. Sure I like hanging out with them, they can be quite entertaining sometimes, but Not every woman wants a man comming in trying to take over their lives. Why is it when a man sees a happy woman he wants to come in and try to take over? Makes a girl feel like she is being trapped. If men could get over their control issues and stop smothering women they might actually want to keep them around. Fyi .. I do not need any more men , I have enough to annoy me as it is .
this from the devil who likes whips and chains and met her bf on an online game....
When assuming a gender, you will get automatically and unconsciously judged by it. Cons based on some of your own examples?
Let’s take the hypothetical of that teenage boy that’s been flirted with for stuff that has been brought up? Maybe he felt good? Maybe the experience suddenly gave him the confidence to face a real woman? Maybe the misconception got of how things work hurts his chances worse. Example I’ve experienced was a sweet but awkward boy who didn’t realize that just because the cute girl online was impressed by the shiny weapons he gave her, I was more interested in social graces then high level equipment.
On the predatorial note, it doesn’t even quite have to be that dramatic. One example I have some knowledge of but I’m not inclined to go into too much detail about involves cyber stalking. Simply boiled down to the fact that when the victim was on the look out for a man it’s just harder to spot them when they’re not in that skin. Even if the person doesn’t give away deeply personal or critical information, any contact still feeds the stalker’s obsession.
Another con that can be argued but is highly intangible is the idea generalized perceptions. By acting up stereotypes, you risk maintaining them when they aren’t necessarily true anymore. Manipulation of that sort still exists, but those that use it… well, it’s another gender gap closing.
I’ll try to do more when time isn’t so tight.
~~~~~
"Big surprise... there was no protection by this urban light..."
Maybe it should be that you should be required to prove your gender before being allowed to choose what gender you play in an MMORPG.
I could careless what gender the player is behind a toon, and it really doesn't bother me, but for some it seems to make a difference. Either way I wouldn't care if I had to prove my gender. How about the rest of you?