Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
VG is more fun for me than EQ2
dougmysticey
Member Posts: 1,176
So, I have a station pass and with it I mostly play EQ2, POTBS, and VG. I am finding as time goes on and VG gets more stable with more fixes, additions, etc that I am enjoying it more than the other two. What do you think?
FYI...I am running Vista on both desk top and lap top. Both are pretty beefy (Got a new XPS 1730 which I love) but I have no problems at all running any MMOs.
Also, it seems that I am finding more and more folks to group up with at all levels on VG while I am finding less on EQ2.
Comments
I find poking at my eyeballs with a cattleprod to be more entertaining then EQII, but hey, thats me.
True. Saying VG is better than EQ2 isn't a glowing endorsement.
If you manage to sneak SP1 off of WU.. Vista definitely has no problems running MMO's... but anyway.
If you are having issues finding groups in EQ2.. as opposed to VG.
Then.. you are either not in a guild or not in an active guild. Just to get that out of the way (consider it a disclaimer statement).
I like VG better than EQ2 but only becase the classes are more interesting to me. EQ2 most of the classes just feel very gutted.. at least to me.
That said I stopped paying for station access and am only playing potbs atm.
I'll whole-heartedly agree! I just canceled my Station Access too, which I had VG, EQ2, SWG and Planetside on. VG is the only one I play, and of the others, I'd rather play the crappiest F2P Korean grinder for the rest of my life than to play EQ2. I tried and tried to find anything good about EQ2 but, for my preferences, it's the worst game, MMO or otherwise, I've ever purchased, and I just can't justify playing for Station Access for games I'm not playing.
VG has better combat and a better open world.
Eq2 has WAY more content, lore, music, and immersiveness.
Both have shitty performance, EQ2 performance is overrated while VG is underrated.
I'd have to go with EQ2 .
Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice.
EQ2 and Vanguard are polar opposites in games. Vanguard has a very strong core in game mechanics such as crafting, combat and classes but is terribly unfinished. EQ2 is very finished and polished but its corse systems of combat and crafting are awful and its classes are bad.
EQ2
Strengths
1. Polish and Finish
2. Raids
3. The community
Weaknesses
1. Combat The combat mechanics are awful and awkward. It plays more like a free Asian MMO than a big budget MMO.
2. Crafting The crafting system is awful. Like EQ2's combat its an awkward version of whack a mole where choices and decisions have little effect.
3. Fun The game is lacking in fun.
4. The game is to easy.
5. Classes the game really only has 4 classes. All archetypes are alike and can substituted in and out. Classes lack diversity and depth.
Vanguard
Weaknesses
1. The game is still terribly unfinished. Almost every area and dungeon is incomplete and lacking.
2. System requirements are high.
3. Lack of tutorials and direction for new players.
4. New players are isolated and segregated by 14 different starting areas leaving many new players with the feeling they are all alone when the servers are actually pretty full post 20 when people start grouping.
5. The game is to easy, has super fast leveling and lacks challenge. Players are greatly overpowered compared to the mobs they fight.
6. Performance.
7. SOE Since SOE took over last May there have been a total of 3 patches. Development has essentially stopped as they they have trimmed the staff to a skeleton crew. They have so far only completed projects started by Sigil last April. The amount of content SOE has added to the game in almost a year is less than what SIgil would normally add in a week or that Turbine will add in their monthly update to LOTR.
Strengths
1. Classes Vanguard classes are amazing. Diverse fun and full of depth.
2. Combat Hands down the best combat system of any MMO on the market. Sigil may have spent to much time tweaking combat, classes and crafting at the expense of everything else but they did do an amazing job.
3. Crafting The best crafting system on the market. The core mechan ics of making an item is challenging and fun. That being said crafting is not fully fleshed out or developed in vanguard. Player cities are not yet in the game and so much more could be done in terms of recipes and expanding craftings impact on the world.
4. The world Its huge and fun with great potential but like most things in vanguard not finished.
5. Fun For all its flaws Vanguard is truly a fun game to play.
6. APW The first raid zone was surprisingly very well done. It was rushed out a bit early but they did do a very good job.
7. The community. Like EQ2's one of the better, nicer and more mature communities that one will see in a MMO.
It really depends what you are lookingf for and how you value MMO. If you want flash over substance take EQ2. If you want a finished bug free mediocre game take eq2. If you want a very good poor game take Vanguard. If you like diverse fun classes and good more in depth combat take vanguard. If your a crafter take vanguard with the reservation that crafting while good is limited and unfinished. Vanguard has more potential and at its core is a much better game than EQ2 but SOE appears to have no interest in funding and developing Vanguard. But the bottomline is there is no right or wrong answer. Play the game that fits your playstyle. If one can get past the Vanguard's flaws it is truly an amazing game despite SOE's presence.
Hey Zippy could you list in detail the differences between combat in eq2 and vg? Cause Im not seeing that much difference.
Watch your thoughts; they become words.
Watch your words; they become actions.
Watch your actions; they become habits.
Watch your habits; they become character.
Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.
Lao-Tze
Sorry to tell you this but Fallen Earth will come to nothing.
Sorry to tell you this but Fallen Earth will come to nothing.
Sadly you are probably correct, odds are its vapor not that it is on topic.IMHO, VG captures what an MMO virtual world should be much better then EQII. To bad it ended up the way it did.
It makes you wonder what exactly SOE spend their time and money on?
Are they still upgrading EQ2 or do they have a new game in development?
Its a shame asi beleive if they put a little more resource into VG it will go a long way.
It makes you wonder what exactly SOE spend their time and money on?
Are they still upgrading EQ2 or do they have a new game in development?
Its a shame asi beleive if they put a little more resource into VG it will go a long way.
They have done 23 patches.
http://forums.station.sony.com/vg/forums/show.m?forum_id=39
LOL.. where do you guys dig up your facts?
This isn't really a small thing as there are lots of aspects of the VG combat system that are superior to other games. Probably the best way to understand is the get a trial account and play a few characters.
However here are a few things
Classes generally play quite different. This includes mechanics.
Monks & Disciples for example build up jin doing certain combat moves that enable them to spend Jin for later attacks.
Paladins, clerics, durids have points that build over time that allow them to do special abilities.
Necros have pets that have inventory slots and are upgradable by harvesting from mobs killed. This lets the necro customize how their pet fights and what abilities they have.
Rogues have numberous very handy abilitys they create from components, things like poisons, bombs, darts etc.
Shaman have 3 different gods they follow to give them different abilities and pets.
Ok combat specifics
VG has the concept of an offensive and defensive target. This means that the healer or tank can target both a mob and someone to protect.
There are abilities that trigger off the defensive target so that a tank can defend/taunt a mob off his defensive target if something attacks the defensive target. Or a rogue can intercept and take the hit for a defensive target or a healer can heal the defensive target. All this is independent of the offensive target so for example the cleric doesn't need to sit back and only heal but can be up in the fight meleeing. In fact a cleric needs to be up fighting to be fully effective because one of their abilities is to create energy from their melee attack.
Melee characters in vg have limited energy for using abilities. Energy recharges fast but it means that unlike eq2 you need to do more evaluation on how you use your abilities rather then just waiting for the connections to ungray. In EQ2 energy is rarely an issue except in very long fights.
Abilities also have chains so that when basic abilities crit it opens up a special follow up attack. So you need to decide and weigh trade offs when fighting about what abilites you use.
In addition to chains there are counterattacks which are attack opportunities that occur during battle and there are defensive abilities that also occur during battle. So at any time during battle you may have to make several choices about which attacks are best at that point in time based on these factors.
Casters also have the ability to counterspell spellcasters. So for example when you are fighting a named mob a caster might see that the mob is casting a heal on itself and the caster can counterspell the mob preventing that spell from successfully completing.
Another thing that works well is the weakness system. This is where one class is able to create a weakness that another class can take advantage of. This is kinda like the combat wheel but simpler and I personally think more effective. Since a mob can have multiple weaknesses at any time as a player you can watch for weaknesses you can exploit and again you need to decide what attack you will use. Do I use my chain? Or should I use an attack that exploits a weakness or should I create a weakness? Do I use my intercept ability to block an attack on my defensive target or take an attack of opportunity that just opened. Will that deplete my energy so I wont have enough energy to use my chain finisher?
Also many classes have an ability to trigger a crit which creates a chain opportunity so you also have to factor that.
Anyway maybe that gives you some flavor and I'm no doubt missing some variations but the bottom line is that combat requires some thought and strategies vary. Kinda like VG crafting, which is quite fun if you like a challenge. I know I'll be working on crafting and start cursing at the computer and my wife will be like are you ok.. But that involvement is what makes it good. Take a chance and get screwed...
EQ2 on the other hand has a very simple combat system. I mean I have lots of abilities but other then figuring out the basic starting sequence to max my debufs and bufs it is really the same all the time and involved just hitting abilities mostly as soon as they become available. Only in the longest fights does energy ever become a factor so I'm largely just hitting the next attack that ungrays and with the global cool down being so long I can pretty much keep all my abilities that are useful grayed out... So to me other then the combat wheel which people rarely really use eq2 combat is very mechanical.
---
Ethion
It makes you wonder what exactly SOE spend their time and money on?
Are they still upgrading EQ2 or do they have a new game in development?
Its a shame asi beleive if they put a little more resource into VG it will go a long way.
They have done 23 patches.
http://forums.station.sony.com/vg/forums/show.m?forum_id=39
LOL.. where do you guys dig up your facts?
23 or 100 doesn't matter how many, things are moving too slow, since SOE seems not to be interested in getting this game where it needs to be, a MMO leader, which it easily has the potential to be.
Do you know what all the devs at SOE are working on?
This isn't really a small thing as there are lots of aspects of the VG combat system that are superior to other games. Probably the best way to understand is the get a trial account and play a few characters.
Well..if they HAD a trial account...then I would try it..I am disappointed that after a year, there still is no trial, and I am suspect to buy into a game that will not let me see how it plays first...
Until then I will continue to watch from the wings, and hope SOE makes this game work.
So much EQ2 bashing, I for one think it is a great game.
I've played them all. Except for Vanguard really, but if someone would give a buddy key I'll try it out!
There are two kinds of people in this world. People who pick their nose.. and liars.
It makes you wonder what exactly SOE spend their time and money on?
Are they still upgrading EQ2 or do they have a new game in development?
Its a shame asi beleive if they put a little more resource into VG it will go a long way.
They have done 23 patches.
http://forums.station.sony.com/vg/forums/show.m?forum_id=39
LOL.. where do you guys dig up your facts?
23 or 100 doesn't matter how many, things are moving too slow, since SOE seems not to be interested in getting this game where it needs to be, a MMO leader, which it easily has the potential to be.
Do you know what all the devs at SOE are working on?
Ummm... I think it does matter; saying 4 updates since May when they have actually done 23.. is quite misleading.
Of course I dont know what all the developers are doing.
I am VERY happy with the development that has taken place since SOE took over. They have saved the game. The have made fixing bugs and enchancing performance there #1 concern.
Do I wish they had more developers? .. sure....
You cant always get what you want, but sometimes you get what you need.
Ack I really don't think it is fair to bash eq2. EQ2 is a great game. VG definitely has some good features and is worth looking at and if they continue to develop and improve it it will be the best SoE game.
But today eq2 with its diverse content, polished gameplay, and fun quests is still the best game in my opinion.
I'm playing both games VG and EQ2 and I'm spending most of my time on eq2 other then playing on the test server for VG. I'm planning to play up to lvl 80 on eq2 then I'll go back to VG or maybe I'll try out AoC.
So I don't see this as bashing but just discussing the differences.
---
Ethion
Due to my heavy distate for raiding...
I kinda feels like a Paladin assisting to a debate as weither Hell or the Abyss are better?!
SMITE EVIL!!! Would be my proper answer I think.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
It makes you wonder what exactly SOE spend their time and money on?
Are they still upgrading EQ2 or do they have a new game in development?
Its a shame asi beleive if they put a little more resource into VG it will go a long way.
They have done 23 patches.
http://forums.station.sony.com/vg/forums/show.m?forum_id=39
LOL.. where do you guys dig up your facts?
23 or 100 doesn't matter how many, things are moving too slow, since SOE seems not to be interested in getting this game where it needs to be, a MMO leader, which it easily has the potential to be.
Do you know what all the devs at SOE are working on?
Ummm... I think it does matter; saying 4 updates since May when they have actually done 23.. is quite misleading.
Of course I dont know what all the developers are doing.
I am VERY happy with the development that has taken place since SOE took over. They have saved the game. The have made fixing bugs and enchancing performance there #1 concern.
Do I wish they had more developers? .. sure....
You can always get what you want, but sometimes you get what you need.
It all depends what an "update" means, i think the person who said 4 updates is refering to the GU numbering, of which the current one is 4.You could also count each individual fix as an update, i am sure there are 1000s of them, however the fact remains that the game is progressing relatively slowly then it would if a dedicated producer witha decent budget was handling the game.
We all want the same thing for VG to reach it full potential, i am just dissappointed that SOE doesnt see this too.
Otherwise they would increase the size of the team working on VG, get the performance sorted out, get the free trial out there (increasing the population), and start expanding the game.
I'm downloading the game now.
BTW, i've been playing EQ II for the past month and a half, and i kinda like it. I'm thinking these 2 games will hold me over until Age of Conan in may. I'll probably drop the station pass then.
I got into EQ2... It was really fun.. It was dissapoiting when compared to the original everquest though (because thats the ONLY reason I even tried it), but after a while the "arcade like" charm started to mold on me..
As for Vanguard... I friggin love this game.. The atmosphere, the world is huge, the classes are all different, the races actually have perks (special skills and bonuses) the economy is leveled (gold farmers havent ruined the game yet and market prices are average most of the time), NO INSTANCING (you run into a dungeon for a quest but get to a challenging part just to turn around and see someone else in the dungeon on another task, you ask them for help and they help. Both of you return to doing what you were doing.. totally random interaction...)
What got me into eq2 most was the fact of seeing eq1 zones in the future (still cant believe what happened to the commonlands and freeport...) Same reason I played everquest online adventures for ps2 (just to see freeport as a tent city on the past was worth it) I don't think the gameplay is all that "unique" or diferent at all.. The classes are pretty much light and dark versions of each other with only subtle differences and name changes of spells.. Not alot of items to choose from when reaching max level and you will find that there is a max level MOLD for every class (meaning in order to be accepted for raids and high level groups you must = this..)
I dunno.. I prefer Vanguard to pretty much everything else but AO at the moment until Conan comes out, because strangly enough it looks like a "vanguard" killer lol... And Funcom is making it and if you have played AO you know what kind of deep gameplay and customization to expect from that game..
It makes you wonder what exactly SOE spend their time and money on?
Are they still upgrading EQ2 or do they have a new game in development?
Its a shame asi beleive if they put a little more resource into VG it will go a long way.
They have done 23 patches.
http://forums.station.sony.com/vg/forums/show.m?forum_id=39
LOL.. where do you guys dig up your facts?
23 or 100 doesn't matter how many, things are moving too slow, since SOE seems not to be interested in getting this game where it needs to be, a MMO leader, which it easily has the potential to be.
Do you know what all the devs at SOE are working on?
Ummm... I think it does matter; saying 4 updates since May when they have actually done 23.. is quite misleading.
Of course I dont know what all the developers are doing.
I am VERY happy with the development that has taken place since SOE took over. They have saved the game. The have made fixing bugs and enchancing performance there #1 concern.
Do I wish they had more developers? .. sure....
You cant always get what you want, but sometimes you get what you need.
You can call it 23 updates if you count each patch to fix the bugs in their updates but really they have done 3 updates GU1, GU2 and Gu3. Each of these updates contained less updates then Sigil would normally patch into the game in one week and much less than LOTR patches into their bimonthly updates.
The sad thing is all these updates were projects started by Sigil last April. SOE has nor begun one addition to the game that was not already started by Sigil last April and close to being released last May besides the EE change, the increased XP and the additional Ksvari Gulch quests.
Essentially SOE has done nothing except finish Sigil's projects that would have all been into the game most likely last June if Sigil had remained in charge. They have added nothing to the game themselves except the CTD bug and performance decreases bugs they introduced last May which took them months to fix. The game was arguably a much better game in May than it is now.
The problem sinply is EQ2 is SOE's game and Vanguard is not and SOE cares little to nothing as to whether or not Vanguard succeeds. They are putting all their money and marketing into EQ2 and not Vanguard. SOE simply got involved with Vanguard to reduce their risk as Vanguard threatened to draw from their target auduence. Now they have the game they care little as they believe VG's target audience is the same as EQ2's. That being said they think it makes sense to starve VG to death while they try to revive EQ2. Hopefully one day they will realize the potential of VG is much higher than that of EQ2 and putting money into VG is hopefully a much better long term option than just funding EQ2. I am sure SOE could use two successful games rather than one. But they always look at short term dollars than the long run. Vg is a game that when hardware catches up to it could do very well.
All of the above is not meant to demean the hard work of the Vanguard devs. They work their butts off and work crazy hours. They spend time in and out of game communicating with players. They also really know their stuff. They readily admit on the public forums that they are severely understaffed. This is not the devs problem as they often recieve criticism but rather its SOE's inability to commit the funds neccessary to develop the game.
Which is very sad since the only game that SoE currently has that could possibly compete against some of the upcoming games is Vanguard. It definitely needs some work but it isn't that far from being a great game and where EQ2's graphics engine sucks for performance Vanguards seems to scale better with better hardware. If they put 6-12 months of solid effort into vanguard it would easily stand against any of the games coming this year.
I'd say that the same can't be said for any other game in SoEs collection. So I'm afraid that when they finally do realize where things are heading it will be too late... It would be really interesting to see how Vanguards numbers are growing but alas with only 3 months left till AoC comes out there isn't a lot of time for VG to do anything to really prevent themselves from loosing anything they have gained and more when AoC hits...
Not to be gloomy... But thats what I see in the coming months assuming AoC isn't a bug fest. War on the other hand I don't think will steal any subs from VG or a very small number. War is a different type of game with no PvE focus. I for example have no interesting in war at all.
---
Ethion
So I did not start this thread to bash Eq2. Heck, I am still playing it. I am just noticing that lately I have been having much more fun playing VG. In posting this I am finding that I am not alone in my new found good feeling about VG.
Also, some posted they thought I was having a hard time finding groups in EQ2. That is not really the case. What I was pointing out was that it was getting easier to find groups in VG than it used to be and that groups in EQ2 seem to be gettling less frequent.
It was the only quanitfyable thing I could come up with to justify a notible shift in the population in VG. It seems to be growing while EQ2 seems to be going the other way.
I love the classes in VG. As noted in other posts on this thread they are wide and varied with unique abilities that really set them a part. I also do like the crafting though it takes some level of dedication to be able to craft anythying really worth while.
Like others I am really looking forward to AOC and hope that it comes out as good as it seems. I am a big Conan fan. I will probaly drop my Station Pass to try AOC at that time but feel i will return to play VG more, especially if Conan lets me down. It does not look like it will though.
I've always like Vanguard better than EQ2. In fact, I only played EQ2 for 6 months when I realized I was having no fun at all.
We have a fairly large guild that has a lot of players in both VG and EQ2. What I think is telling right now with all the content additions and game improvements is that Vanguard is pulling about a player a week from EQ2 in our guild with none going the other way. Some are returning and others are trying it out for the first time.
I've made a point of asking those that raided in EQ2 and are now raiding in Vanguard which they find more fun and more interetsing. The answer has definitely been Vanguard with Ancient Port Warehouse mobs being very diverse in abilities, fighting styles. mob teamwork and tactics.
So I'm not surprised that you are finding less people on EQ2. It does seem that Vanguard has been siphoning off the player base somewhat. I'm sure Sony doesn't care as long as people pay for the 'Pass'