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No death penalty?
RedwoodSap
Member Posts: 1,235
So all that happens is a slight loss of stats? Very WoWish isn't it? Do we need another carebear game?
Comments
Death penalty just leads to a large base of angered players, losing them a net of subscribers. Most games take a hit in subscribers when they realize there is a death penalty or long leveling. The casual player base will just about always win theres a lot more of them than hardcore who wants difficulty, they need the ease to get to top level.
We are a free world. You can always penalize yourself. Toss away coin, destroy some items, delete your chars. Go ahead, feel free to penalize you as ever you wish.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
If someone leaves because of a death penalty instead of it making them try to be cautious and play better then they are pathetic and should not be catered to.
But I play smart , have skills,and therefore don't die often. Having a death penalty is about making the other guy get penalized for playing stupidly. I want to be able to shine compared to others. How do I do that without a death penalty? Do I get extra rewards for not dying compared to others who do die often? There needs to be a way to differentiate skilled and smart players versus unskilled and dumb players.
Are we talking solo or group here? For example, what if you die BECAUSE of someone else? Someone forgots to heal you, someone does this and that that is wrong in a group and BAM you die...
I dont play mmos because of some death penalty (whatever it is), and to "prove" myself to others im better in some kind of a "race"... i play them because i want to explore, achieve, craft, pvp and do all the things i want to!
Its an open pvp game with no set factions. I could group with you then kill you when your health is low or if you did something stupid.
Blood Money may possibly be scrapped because we have heard very little about it. It was mentioned very early that they wanted a program that supported player skill for pvp rewards over time invested. Blood Money was their solution.
Every character would start with X amount of Blood money. When they die the player killing them can loot a % of that Blood Money. After that the character who won the fight and looted would have more blood money and thus would be worth more when you kill him.
Characters with a good kill to death ratio and many kills would be the ones on the top of the ladder, not simply the ones who killed the most or were present during the most fights.
edit: The only real discouragement to bad players is constantly being ganked and having very slow progression.
But I play smart , have skills,and therefore don't die often. Having a death penalty is about making the other guy get penalized for playing stupidly. I want to be able to shine compared to others. How do I do that without a death penalty? Do I get extra rewards for not dying compared to others who do die often? There needs to be a way to differentiate skilled and smart players versus unskilled and dumb players.
Some classes will surely die more then others...so that would mean that if there is severe death penalty, you are defected just for choosing a certain class?And if a player is casual, or he has a careless moment he is stupid?
Its an open pvp game with no set factions. I could group with you then kill you when your health is low or if you did something stupid.
Blood Money may possibly be scrapped because we have heard very little about it. It was mentioned very early that they wanted a program that supported player skill for pvp rewards over time invested. Blood Money was their solution.
Every character would start with X amount of Blood money. When they die the player killing them can loot a % of that Blood Money. After that the character who won the fight and looted would have more blood money and thus would be worth more when you kill him.
Characters with a good kill to death ratio and many kills would be the ones on the top of the ladder, not simply the ones who killed the most or were present during the most fights.
edit: The only real discouragement to bad players is constantly being ganked and having very slow progression.
Isn't PvP consensual though, by being limited to certain zones? If so you always expect to be attacked by anyone in a open PvP environment like that. There isn't any player looting either so again, no death penalty.
Death penalty is something I personally could care less about...
My view was the OP pretty much described the death penalty in DAoC. I sure wasn't thinking about "WoW" in that description. Unless you think that having "ress sickness" for a few minutes is some harsh penalty.. since its usually gone by the time you get back to the fight.
Now UO... early on .. had a death penalty.
Die to a player.. your stuff got looted.
Die to a mob... ya you guessed it .. the mob took your stuff.
I always thought that was great. You actually had the chance to get your stuff back by killing the player or the mob that took it. And... sometimes when I killed a mob I got bonus loot.
So UO as a skill based game could be pretty harsh.
EQ1 early on was fairly harsh XP penalty.
I never played AC1... AO used the insurance system. If you forgot to insure you lost all the XP you made since your last insured date. I forget if you automaticly insured when you level'd.. its been to many years.
DAoC to me was the first game I played where the penalty wasn't that bad. They had the grave system and if you got to your grave you got a large chunk of the XP back. So you didn't have to hope to find a Cleric with that "good" ress (that's an EQ1 reference for those that didn't play it).
In RvR you didn't lose XP just had a death effect. But back then by the time the "porters" walked onto the pad... the second time becuase you forgot to put on your necklace... The effect was gone.
Anyway... I just don't see how the OP.. alludes to WoW as somehow being where this lack of penalty came from.
The only other thing I have to say about this is..
A company is going to do what they think will bring in the numbers needed to...
1) Make a profit in a certain period of time
2) Cover the IP license fee (in the case of AoC/WAR or any 3rd party IP)
3) High enough numbers to retain a long term profit
If making the game a certain way... is predicted to bring in less numbers than needed for the above. Its going to be changed no matter who the developer is.
I don't know of any company out there.. that is going to take a financial bath just to put out a certain type of game.
Err wait... SOE has done that.. never mind.
Let me reword that.. I don't know any company that can't hide behind Sony Pictures profits.. that is going to purposely lose money on a game. (that's supposed to be somewhat funny.. but I know sarcasm isn't funny to most it seems).
So if you want a harsher game... you will probably want to look at self owned IP's.. just the license costs of a 3rd party IP.. is going to dictate a certain minimum subscriber base. Which in the end... really means having to design a game a certain way. Even if its not what your "vision" was.
yay another death penalty thread.
But I play smart , have skills,and therefore don't die often. Having a death penalty is about making the other guy get penalized for playing stupidly. I want to be able to shine compared to others. How do I do that without a death penalty? Do I get extra rewards for not dying compared to others who do die often? There needs to be a way to differentiate skilled and smart players versus unskilled and dumb players.
Its quite a human desire to stand out for ability. What about instead of penalizing death we try to make games that award you for NOT dying instead? Lets say the longer you dont die you get XP or loot bonus. Or a title. I can think of many things, I just dont like my spare time hobby be a place of grief and penalities as I were back in school again.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Death penalty is never a case of "I'm better than you!!"
It's always because some mob get bugged, crazy lag happens, or you don't get healed.
Good point. Its easy to not die, just don't group and pick your fights carefully. But that's no fun. People will try more challenging fights and generally learn more about the game and their char's if there's less to lose. Personally I think sending a char to graveyard, resurrection point, healer, etc...upon death is penalty enough. As for groups, losing that member for the remainder of the encounter typically proves to be a sufficient penalty, especially if its the healer.
All a serious death penalty does is make groups more hostile to each other when things go bad...the healer in particular. There's nothing more annoying than some maladjusted school shooter playing a tank and spamming HEELZ PLEEZ incessantly during fights or complaining WHY DID YOU LET ME DIE YOU NOOB!
I also find it interesting that the same people who want innovation and complain about games being clones are the same ones who complain when games try to do something different.
Wow, I usually disagree with alot of what you say, but this is very true and well written.
I agree entirely, it would be interesting to see rewards for NOT DYING instead, that would certainly put a new twist on things.
We shouldn't have to. Althought I won't go as far as the OP in saying it's a carebear game, I do believe no death penalty takes away a huge feel from the game.
"God, please help us sinful children of Ivalice.."
Impossible to judge that without even trying the game.
But I play smart , have skills,and therefore don't die often. Having a death penalty is about making the other guy get penalized for playing stupidly. I want to be able to shine compared to others. How do I do that without a death penalty? Do I get extra rewards for not dying compared to others who do die often? There needs to be a way to differentiate skilled and smart players versus unskilled and dumb players.
This is an MMO. There is little to no standing out of any player regardless of how good or bad you are (other than word of mouth and pvp rewards). Death penalties hurt good players too, healers and tanks who sacrifice themselves for their team, players who will sacrifice themselves to swing the balance of a siege, players die from lag/disconnects/bugs/exploits, etc... If you are truely as skilled as you say you are, then word will get around, and the hardcore pvp community will know who you are. Otherwise, anything else is really just feeding someones e-peen.
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
I would like to see where it says not death penalty. If there isnt then I'm not gettign this game its gonna be more like War.
Agreed. I play games because I like to explore, and feel that I accomplished something. I never look to feel superior to other people. I don't really care how people view me. I just want to play and have fun... either way, even if there was a death penalty I would still play this game, mainly because I think it's going to be fun.
I don't mind a strict death penalty. I feel it makes players more cautious and play more strategically, rather than playing with total disregard of getting wiped. However, since MMOs are Online, there is always the concern that a death may come from an interuped connection and therefore really anger the player. AoC might have the right idea on this one, but we'll have to wait and see how it goes come gameday.
Hopefully there will be different rulesets regarding the death penalty for PVP-RP servers...
I know what you mean.
I want to be "scared" of dying.
I want a game that gives me a reason NOT to die.
I play WoW, and the only complaint I have about that game is that there is no death penalty.
"Oh dang, I died, I guess I have to run back to my body."
MMO's nowadays are geared towards the "casual" gamer. (not that it's a bad thing) I hate using this term, but these gamers are "carebear".
...and people that would quit a game because of a death penalty should stick to FP shooter's...
ALL OF THIS IS MY OPINION
No death penalty for pvp is ok and I like the blood money idea.
No death penalty for the entire game is stupid. This leads to people not caring about dying at all. I'm done playing time to suicide. Or ok lets all suicide on the mob so we can respawn outside the dungeon. etc. I've seen it. SWG I think had no real death penalty or it was so small as to be nothing and groups did this all the time.
Let me explore this new area, I'll just run in and run all over until I die...
Lets see what kinda abilities this mob has I'll just run in and attack it and die.
The result is that there is nothing to discourage this. So does it make the game more fun? I don't think it really helps the game. Does it make the game less rewarding, definitely. Does it detract from the thrill of exploring new areas? yes I think so...
Games have to have a death penalty that makes death something players want to avoid.
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Ethion
But I play smart , have skills,and therefore don't die often. Having a death penalty is about making the other guy get penalized for playing stupidly. I want to be able to shine compared to others. How do I do that without a death penalty? Do I get extra rewards for not dying compared to others who do die often? There needs to be a way to differentiate skilled and smart players versus unskilled and dumb players.
Its quite a human desire to stand out for ability. What about instead of penalizing death we try to make games that award you for NOT dying instead? Lets say the longer you dont die you get XP or loot bonus. Or a title. I can think of many things, I just dont like my spare time hobby be a place of grief and penalities as I were back in school again.
Dude, you are being entirely too reasonable. Don't you know this is a Death Penalty thread? Everyone must suffer!
Couldn't agree with you more!!! SWG did have a death penalty, wasnt sever enough. After 3 incapitations you die and get cloned.