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Question about crafting in EQ II
Wrymstrum
Member Posts: 196
in Everquest II
Overall, how would you describe crafting in EQ II? How do you go about leveling your crafting? Are the items you can craft useful at all level ranges, especially at the level cap? How do crafted items compare to items gained through other activities such as random drops, quests, group instances, raids, reputation grinds, etc? Is crafting profitable?
Thanks.
~~~ Currently Playing ~~~
LOTRO- Guardian Wrymstrum & Lore-master Stabler on Nimrodel.
Conan- Zoltar <Angels of Death> Guardian on Stormrage.
Comments
In LOTRO, pick your components, go to a crafting station, hit a button...go have a sandwich...
EQ2 - same, but you then do a mini game, where you must make sure you do it correctly to make "pristine" items...very interactive, and fun at times
In EQ2 your crafting levels seperately from your own level...i.e: You can be a level 10 Ranger, but be a level 80 crafter..you could make it the only thing you do. Of course you need cash for components, so you still should go out and gather...
Resources...ALL resources can be mined, and sold except for what you need. Rares fetch an extra price, and help you get cash much quicker.
As to level, yes...a level 25 rare weapon can be crafted that could last you almost 10 levels, and then as you start to hit max, you can do "Epic" weapons, cloaks, items...
One character I have has pick up gear, and another crafted...I have yet to buy anything for the crafted gear, but needed to replace several items on the quest / fabled gear.
If the right profession is chosen, then yes, profits galore...But, money seems to not be such an issue in EQ2 compared to some games.
What I have done is left my crafting 10 levels behind my adventure levels. I then sell all my rares I find for that level range (example at level 30, sell all my 10-19 rares, craft 20-29 items) and the items I craft at that 20-29 levels sell well, and is also useful for my purposes...
I feel EQ2's crafting is the best, except for Ryzom...which of course is not anymore...
Good luck
Thanks for the detailed response.
I kind of understand the draw of making crafting more like a simulation than a simple task of gathering resources and hitting a button, but I have a couple of issues with doing it that way. These are supposed to be roleplaying games. I don't really see a mini-game adding much depth to the crafting experience once you figure it out, and ultimately it seems like it would end up being a shallow mechanic. Besides, I would hate to fail a really important crafting attempt just because my ISP decided to act up or my cat spills something in my lap at the wrong moment.
Maybe there is some potential for simulation based crafting to be really innovative, but I suspect that it would require a system with a lot more depth than what any current MMO has implemented.
BTW could you just make at what percentage of items the average max level character uses came from crafting? I know it's difficult to be exact, but just give me a ballpark figure if you can.
~~~ Currently Playing ~~~
LOTRO- Guardian Wrymstrum & Lore-master Stabler on Nimrodel.
Conan- Zoltar <Angels of Death> Guardian on Stormrage.
maxed characters usually don't use many crafted equip, but they still need the usables like food/drink, potions, poisons, arrows... and especialyl with the enw expansion most people still use the crafted version of the spellupgrades (adept 3) cause the dropped master spells are still quite rare.
At the cap not much.
As you are leveling it depends on how much time you want to put into the crafting, and how many rares you are willing to give up. I'll use plate armor as an example.
The teir II regular plate armor (i.e, for levels 10-19) isn't anything special. And by regular I mean you don't use any rare components. It's about on par with quest rewards in most parts of the world, and not nearly as good as quest rewards in Timorous Deep (the new 1-20 zone from the latest expansion). So without making crit items, you won't be wearing much crafted plate 10-20, it's just not that good.
However, while out gathering components you will sometimes find blackened iron clusters (maybe one for every 10-30 mining nodes you harvest). This can be used to make blackended iron plate, which much better than any set you can get together questing (for most plate classes anyway). And if you have the full set you can equip it as soon as you hit ten (or is it 11, I forget). Questing, you won't be finding individual peices anywhere near as good until around level 18-20. So theoretically you could harvest like a madman and get together some really badass armor.
To do this you will be using up components that you could sell for well over 100 gold (if I remember the prices right). So how much crafted gear you wear will come down to whether you want cash or to make your own gear more.
Basically, compared to LoTRO it's harder to make "pretty good" items. Recipes made without using rares just aren't that great (not nearly as good as even uncrited dropped repeatable tailoing recipes in LoTRO, for example). However, to make the very best gear (the equivilanet of a critted one shot recipe in LoTRO) is actully quite a bit easier. It's less of a grind to max out each teir, and you can very reliably make stuff from rare components. Unlike LoTRO where you get all the stuff together and hope for a crit.
At max level, unfortunately, raid gear utterly outclasses anything you can craft. Most players start out in crafted stuff and then move on to better pieces (or so I've heard, I'm nowhere near the cap).
I will say it's easier to make money crafting in EQ II than any MMO I've played. Many many items can be sold for more than the componts are worth. I think it's because most players don't enjoy the crafting, but everyone can gather any resource. So lot's of players gather an sell components, and relatively few get serious enough about crafting to do anything with them.
As for the crafting mini game, some like it and some hate it. Once I got the hang of it I found it I enjoyed it for a while. However after getting three crafters into teir III I can say it's honestly beginning to bore me to tears.
Mainly you hit one button over and over. Every once in a while an "event" occurs that may force you to hit a different button. If you get a really bad event, you might have to hit as many as three buttons. Sitting there waiting for events to occur does at least make it less monotonous than WoW or LoTRO where you just watch a bar go up. I have lagged out in the middle of crafting and lost components a few times, but it is pretty rare. If I flushed a rare compenent worth 20 gold or more I guess I'd be ticked, but it hasn't happened so far.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
Vanguard actually seems to directly add to the Everquest2 crafting system.
When I started playing EQ2 recently, the first time I crafted I thought, "Hey I know how to do this" since I'd played Vanguard for a few months at launch.
Turns out, the EQ2 system is simpler and more random, and actually, IMO maybe better. Maybe not.
In Vanguard's crafting you address each problem through your own deductions (as opposed to whack a mole), and you have to use trial and error to find out what problems are likely to occur, so you have the tools AND materials you need to solve them equipped. It's pretty complicated, but very satisfying once you get the hang of it. Actually, I hear it was simplified from what it was in closed beta, but more "realistic" isn't necessarily better it turns out.
The big problem is... it's tedious. Every single little item takes a lot of time and LOT of meticulous attention to complete. And it's a very, very slow grind (at least it was), so most people couldn't really bear it after a little while.
That said, I really can't stand the randomness of EQ2's system. Your item can go from completely fine and on-track to a completely failed craft just from a diceroll that you don't even get to see.
Also, there is very little to it after you figure it out. (Basically just spam 1 and 3 when the durability is going down and 4 and 6 when it's stable and you'll succeed every time, you don't even have to pay any attention to the whack a mole)
Check out this site, the owner is Niami Denmother who is affectionately known as "Mum" to EQ2 crafters.
eq2.eqtraders.com/articles/news_page.php
Her site will give you all the details about EQ2 tradeskills including guides, photos and much more.
The best part is that every page of her site has "Printer Friendly" versions. Very handy.
Enjoy.
This is not true.
I've crafted almost 12,000 items (yes!) in EQ2. The ONLY times I've not gotten pristine results, is when I've had to leave my PC in the middle of a crafting process.
The change they made in October (I think it was then), made it even easier. You got the crafting buttons in the crafting window, and doesn't add them to your own hotbars anymore. This means no more spell-updating for each tier, since that's done automaticly. The change also greatly reduced the power consumptions, so that's never a problem anymore.
If you know what you're doing, there's no way in hell you can fail in crafting, at least if you're paying attention.
Btw, if you need to know how: spam 4,5,6 all the time when "health" is good, if it starts falling, spam 1,2,3 till it's good, then go back to 4,5,6. Yes, it's that simple.
I don't even do that. Just hit 2 or 5, whatever strikes my fancy, depending on whether my durability is high or low. You'll also note that some recipes, like the rares from EH, can be fairly difficult, and require a little more effort. Of course, those recipes make fabled items.
"Granted thinking for yourself could be considered a timesink of shorter or longer duration depending on how smart..or how dumb you are."
Also you have "quests" which help you level a bit faster and give you reputation. It still can be a bit grindy, but a fun way to grind, especially the timed quests (called rush-writs). There you can not blindly press 2 then 5 or so, because then you might not keep the time. There you have to pay a bit more attention and do it "right" otherwise you will have to do the quest over again.
You do not want to press to often either as to not drain energy, because this will increase the chance for something to happen and decrease your chances to counter it successfully, at least within a certain time frame.
Read the above given link, that should tell you most.
For me this is the best crrafting sysem after the SWG one. LOTRO is just a rip-off of the WoW system, although admittedly easier and thus in a way better for the casual player.
Not sure if mentioned, but e.g. most furniture or bags can only be crafted, especially furniture that give rent-reduction, the latter being substantial if you choose an expensive house.
This is not true.
I've crafted almost 12,000 items (yes!) in EQ2. The ONLY times I've not gotten pristine results, is when I've had to leave my PC in the middle of a crafting process.
The change they made in October (I think it was then), made it even easier. You got the crafting buttons in the crafting window, and doesn't add them to your own hotbars anymore. This means no more spell-updating for each tier, since that's done automaticly. The change also greatly reduced the power consumptions, so that's never a problem anymore.
If you know what you're doing, there's no way in hell you can fail in crafting, at least if you're paying attention.
Btw, if you need to know how: spam 4,5,6 all the time when "health" is good, if it starts falling, spam 1,2,3 till it's good, then go back to 4,5,6. Yes, it's that simple.
12,000 items, all Pristine. This shows the failings of the Everquest 2 crafting system. When everyone can make the very best items all the time, what can dedicated player do to set themselves apart?
eq2 crafting system really isn't very random when you realize you can hit multiple abilities at once. You can basically just either do 123 or 456 and you will almost make a pristine every time. So for me this kinda drops eq2's crafting system into a rather boring no thought exercise. The only thing you really might want to do is try to time the 123 hit so you can line it up with any complication that apprears. So sometimes you do 231 or 312...
Vanguard crafting is far more combat like. In that as you craft and as you level you gain new abilities. This gives you more choice about how you spend your action points to progress either quality or progress similar to EQ2 except it matters more. Also complications in VG require a lot more thought. Some you can ignore, some you remedy and you have various remedy abilities that also can effect progress. I find VG crafting more engaging. Both satisfying and frustrating it is a constant battle to get a high quality item.
Also doing tasks in VG give crafting recipes, loot, equipment and money. Which is more exciting then just getting some status, and coin which is what you get in eq2.
I think eq2 crafting is better then say wow or lotr but really not something I'd get all overjoyed about.
---
Ethion
Well, when you do combat you want "interaction", correct? This is what the EQ2 system gives. Look at it like "combat crafting". if you do't react to certain things, you won't succeed well or at all.Also you have "quests" which help you level a bit faster and give you reputation. It still can be a bit grindy, but a fun way to grind, especially the timed quests (called rush-writs). There you can not blindly press 2 then 5 or so, because then you might not keep the time. There you have to pay a bit more attention and do it "right" otherwise you will have to do the quest over again.
You do not want to press to often either as to not drain energy, because this will increase the chance for something to happen and decrease your chances to counter it successfully, at least within a certain time frame.
Read the above given link, that should tell you most.
For me this is the best crrafting sysem after the SWG one. LOTRO is just a rip-off of the WoW system, although admittedly easier and thus in a way better for the casual player.
Not sure if mentioned, but e.g. most furniture or bags can only be crafted, especially furniture that give rent-reduction, the latter being substantial if you choose an expensive house.
I don't know if it's accurate to say that I look for the same things in crafting that I do in combat. I guess you could say that I'm more practical about crafting. What I care about most are the results, and l care least about the process. I'd much rather have a boring process that yields useful rewards than a fun process that yields useless rewards. Other things to consider are the overall economy and rarity of resources, etc.
I will say that ethion's description of VG crafting sounds pretty cool. I'm not against interactive crafting, but the practical aspects of crafting are more important IMO. That's why I have a lot of respect for LOTRO's crafting system. The items are competitive with items from raids, quests, pvp, etc and I think they have done a pretty good job of balancing the rarity of the components. So when I see people say things like
"For me this [eq 2] is the best crrafting sysem after the SWG one. LOTRO is just a rip-off of the WoW system, although admittedly easier and thus in a way better for the casual player."
or
"I think eq2 crafting is better then say wow or lotr"
then I have to wonder if they are just basing that on the crafting process, which I don't think is a fair way to compare them.
~~~ Currently Playing ~~~
LOTRO- Guardian Wrymstrum & Lore-master Stabler on Nimrodel.
Conan- Zoltar <Angels of Death> Guardian on Stormrage.
Well, when you do combat you want "interaction", correct? This is what the EQ2 system gives. Look at it like "combat crafting". if you do't react to certain things, you won't succeed well or at all.Also you have "quests" which help you level a bit faster and give you reputation. It still can be a bit grindy, but a fun way to grind, especially the timed quests (called rush-writs). There you can not blindly press 2 then 5 or so, because then you might not keep the time. There you have to pay a bit more attention and do it "right" otherwise you will have to do the quest over again.
You do not want to press to often either as to not drain energy, because this will increase the chance for something to happen and decrease your chances to counter it successfully, at least within a certain time frame.
Read the above given link, that should tell you most.
For me this is the best crrafting sysem after the SWG one. LOTRO is just a rip-off of the WoW system, although admittedly easier and thus in a way better for the casual player.
Not sure if mentioned, but e.g. most furniture or bags can only be crafted, especially furniture that give rent-reduction, the latter being substantial if you choose an expensive house.
I don't know if it's accurate to say that I look for the same things in crafting that I do in combat. I guess you could say that I'm more practical about crafting. What I care about most are the results, and l care least about the process. I'd much rather have a boring process that yields useful rewards than a fun process that yields useless rewards. Other things to consider are the overall economy and rarity of resources, etc.
I will say that ethion's description of VG crafting sounds pretty cool. I'm not against interactive crafting, but the practical aspects of crafting are more important IMO. That's why I have a lot of respect for LOTRO's crafting system. The items are competitive with items from raids, quests, pvp, etc and I think they have done a pretty good job of balancing the rarity of the components. So when I see people say things like
"For me this [eq 2] is the best crrafting sysem after the SWG one. LOTRO is just a rip-off of the WoW system, although admittedly easier and thus in a way better for the casual player."
or
"I think eq2 crafting is better then say wow or lotr"
then I have to wonder if they are just basing that on the crafting process, which I don't think is a fair way to compare them.
That's really the way I look at it to. If I'm going to put in the time to max out a crafter, I want to be able to make gear that is on par with gear I can can get any other way (questing, drops, raids, PvP), if not a little better.
At low levels the EQ II crafting fits this bill nicely, but only if you are willing to use rare components. Regular items made useing common components aren't all that good. At the high end no crafted gear is competitive with raid gear. There are a few things that are needed, high end containers, food, poptions, and ability scrolls for example. But the gear you can make is only OK.
And I totally agree, what I can make by crafting is a lot more important to me than whether I'm playing a button mashing mini-game while I make stuff. To me it's by far the most important distinction among crafting systems in MMOs, but to read some of the responses you'd think some players don't care about it.
A good example: EQOA has a utterly simple production system, but is very flexible about the products you make. Instead of set recipes, you decide what enhancemenst to put on an item when you make it. So when you make a set of plate, you can go for a lot of STR, and lot of STA, a fair bit of both, or something totally different (maybe CHA for a preist or a defensive proc). I actually like it a lot, and I personally don't think adding a button mashing min game to it would really improve it. Having the game you play to get to the crafting not stink would certainly help, but that's a different issue . . .
The only thing I like about the mini-game in EQ II is that after you figure it out there is no reason to ever fail a combine. In many MMOs there is an element of luck involved with the crafting such that you can set your mats on fire when you try to make something, or end up with an inferior product no-one wants. In EQ II, unless you lag out in the middle of a product or get attacked by wild dogs while sitting at your KB it's not going to happen.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
I wanted to add that crafting got quite some love since the new crafter dev is around.
With RoK there is even a epic crafter questline. Most items got a buff and there are some very nice recipes now. There are nice social items like +100 houseitem slots or the achievment swaping mirror for adventurers. Tinkering and adornments are great to customize your character.
It is very doable to adventure with crafted gear. Just raiding is not possible. But raiding has nothing in common with casual anymore.
It was like that in the old days. Failures while crafting did damage and could even kill you. They removed this a long time ago thoI wanted to add that crafting got quite some love since the new crafter dev is around.
With RoK there is even a epic crafter questline. Most items got a buff and there are some very nice recipes now. There are nice social items like +100 houseitem slots or the achievment swaping mirror for adventurers. Tinkering and adornments are great to customize your character.
It is very doable to adventure with crafted gear. Just raiding is not possible. But raiding has nothing in common with casual anymore.
I actually got a scroll guy into teir III right around launch. I thought forcing you to go through the mini game for all of your sub-combines when only the Ink mattered was a horrific drag. That was what eventually chased me away from the game the first time I tried it. One day I sat down to craft my daily set of ten scrolls to post on the broker (which was and is much like a license to print gold) and realized that I would rather shoot myself in the head than make another stack of ten parchments and all the other items just to try and make ten pristine scrolls.
The launch of RoK was the first time I've tried the game since then, and I have to agree the crafting is greatly improved.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.