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oil prices rising

VemoiVemoi Member Posts: 1,546

Found this message while perusing my right-wing propoganda conservative sites.

Economic illiterates have no concept of supply vs demand. They think that government can just "control" pricing. You want to lower gas prices? Remove the taxes, get rid of regulations to make it economical that we can build new refineries, and allow drilling anywhere and everywhere.

- The largest supplier of oil to the United States is Canada (EIA)

- The second largest supplier of oil to the United States is Mexico (EIA)

- 60% of United States oil imports come from non-OPEC countries (EIA)

- The average amount of tax on gasoline in the United States is 47.0 cents per gallon (API)

- The average amount of tax on diesel in the United States is 53.6 cents per gallon (API)

- No new refineries have been built in the United States since 1976

- The U.S.G.S. estimates 4.0 billion barrels of oil in the Central North Slope in Alaska (USGS)

- The U.S.G.S. estimates 10.4 billion barrels of oil in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR) in Alaska (USGS)

- The U.S.G.S. estimates 10.6 billion barrels of oil in the National Petroleum Reserve (NPRA) in Alaska (USGS)

Give me a break - Oil Prices (Video) (5min) (John Stossel, 20/20)

For Now, Gasoline Is Our Only Cheap Fuel (Cato Institute)

Myths About Breaking Our Foreign Oil Habit (The Washington Post)

Prices - Going Green's No Good for Gas Prices (ABC News)

Prices - Price Gouging in the Public Interest (Cato Institute)

Prices - Myth: Price-Gouging Is Bad (John Stossel, 20/20)

Refineries - Behind high gas prices: The refinery crunch (CNN Money)

Refineries - Hyperion says plans first US refinery since 1976 (Reuters)

Refineries - Pain in the Gas: Refinery Troubles Push Gas Prices Higher (ABC News)

Refineries - Refining the Battle Against High Gas Prices (Competitive Enterprise Institute)

Refineries - Refining: the Untold Story of the Oil Chain (BMI)

The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource

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Comments

  • FinweFinwe Member CommonPosts: 3,106

    How can gas go from below one dollar in the 90's to over three within a decade?

    It isn't because China is buying up all the oil. Or because of a war. They all do have effects on the price. But the real issue is the value of the dollar.

    Silver use to be at 5.15 an ounce. It's around 20 dollars now.

    Gold? 350. Now nearing one thousand.

    Platinum, in the 200's. Now nearing 2000.

    The dollar is becoming WORTHLESS.

    This is what happends when you hyper inflate an economy. And the failing real estate market isn't helping.

    Would drilling in alaska help prices? Of course. And I'm all for doing it. But don't think the sky rocketing prices are just because oil is becoming scarce. Our dollar is becoming worthless. It's the simple economics of rarity. If you hold one item, and there are 100 exact other items out there, the price will be set. When that item suddenly has 10,000 duplicates, your value will drop. This is what happends when the dollar loses it's gold/silver backing.

    A economic collapse is around the bend. German great depression anybody? Wheelbarrow full of money to buy a loaf of bread?

    "The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis

    "If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979

  • olddaddyolddaddy Member Posts: 3,356

     

    Originally posted by Vemoi



    Found this message while perusing my right-wing propoganda conservative sites.



    ROTFLOL.

     

    There are 5 oil companies that control the price of oil in the world: Dutch Royal Shell, Exxon Mobil, Chevron, British Petroleum, and Conoco. It costs only slightly more today to bring oil out of the ground and refine it then it did 10 years ago. Let's take Exxon Mobil, a drilling subsidiary of Exxon Mobil incorporated in a tax haven country brings the oil out of the ground for about $27 per barrel. It is then sold to the US Exxon Mobil distributing subsidiary at, now, over $100 per barrel. No taxes are paid on the profits, as they are earned by the drilling subsidiary incorporated in the tax haven country. There is no overhead for building new refineries, there is also damn little exploration. They already know, after decades of exploration, where the oil is. It's called greed. And how much is enough, ask them and they can't answer that, because it's never enough.

    OPEC does what the big 5 tell them. The big 5 complain that regulation prohibits them from building refineries, yet every year they think of a way to have at least one US refinery "out of service" to create a "shortage". Frankly, this is not supply and demand, this is monopolistic competition. This is price fixing. This is in violation of the anti-trust laws. But, when you control the White House, and, by extension, the Attorney General, you have nothing to fear.

    The government does not tell them they can't build refineries. The government does tell them they cannot dump the by products into the ground water, or into the air, without treatment.

    You are just spouting rhetoric about having a smaller government, with less regulations, so that monompolies can occur, so that your air and water quality can be the same as China's and India's, so that your kids can play with toys made with lead paint, and so you can eat beef from cattle infected with Mad Cow disease.

    Just keep watching your right wing propaganda shows. All the answers you need you can find on The Country Music Channel. 

  • unconformedunconformed Member Posts: 700

    Originally posted by olddaddy


     
    Originally posted by Vemoi



    Found this message while perusing my right-wing propoganda conservative sites.



    ROTFLOL.

     

    There are 5 oil companies that control the price of oil in the world: Dutch Royal Shell, Exxon Mobil, Chevron, British Petroleum, and Conoco. It costs only slightly more today to bring oil out of the ground and refine it then it did 10 years ago. Let's take Exxon Mobil, a drilling subsidiary of Exxon Mobil incorporated in a tax haven country brings the oil out of the ground for about $27 per barrel. It is then sold to the US Exxon Mobil distributing subsidiary at, now, over $100 per barrel. No taxes are paid on the profits, as they are earned by the drilling subsidiary incorporated in the tax haven country. There is no overhead for building new refineries, there is also damn little exploration. They already know, after decades of exploration, where the oil is. It's called greed. And how much is enough, ask them and they can't answer that, because it's never enough.

    OPEC does what the big 5 tell them. The big 5 complain that regulation prohibits them from building refineries, yet every year they think of a way to have at least one US refinery "out of service" to create a "shortage". Frankly, this is not supply and demand, this is monopolistic competition. This is price fixing. This is in violation of the anti-trust laws. But, when you control the White House, and, by extension, the Attorney General, you have nothing to fear.

    The government does not tell them they can't build refineries. The government does tell them they cannot dump the by products into the ground water, or into the air, without treatment.

    You are just spouting rhetoric about having a smaller government, with less regulations, so that monompolies can occur, so that your air and water quality can be the same as China's and India's, so that your kids can play with toys made with lead paint, and so you can eat beef from cattle infected with Mad Cow disease.

    Just keep watching your right wing propaganda shows. All the answers you need you can find on The Country Music Channel. 

    lol

    "the country music channel"

    you blew it with segregation. not to mention your entire post is lunacy. its speculation that drives it so high. democrats offer no solutions.

    chips, dips chains & whips.

  • BrianshoBriansho Member UncommonPosts: 3,586

    Oil has what Republicans crave, its got Electrolytes!

    Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!

  • lomillerlomiller Member Posts: 1,810

    Originally posted by Finwe


    How can gas go from below one dollar in the 90's to over three within a decade?
     

     

     

    I don’t buy their claim oil production will drop off rapidly I think it will be much more gradual as prices ho up and oil sands come into production, but the peak oil guys seem to be getting a lot more attention and they do make a good case for production problems in most of the worlds really large oil fields. 

     

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_oil

     

  • VemoiVemoi Member Posts: 1,546
    Originally posted by olddaddy


     
    Originally posted by Vemoi



    Found this message while perusing my right-wing propoganda conservative sites.



    ROTFLOL.

     

    There are 5 oil companies that control the price of oil in the world: Dutch Royal Shell, Exxon Mobil, Chevron, British Petroleum, and Conoco. It costs only slightly more today to bring oil out of the ground and refine it then it did 10 years ago. Let's take Exxon Mobil, a drilling subsidiary of Exxon Mobil incorporated in a tax haven country brings the oil out of the ground for about $27 per barrel. It is then sold to the US Exxon Mobil distributing subsidiary at, now, over $100 per barrel. No taxes are paid on the profits, as they are earned by the drilling subsidiary incorporated in the tax haven country. There is no overhead for building new refineries, there is also damn little exploration. They already know, after decades of exploration, where the oil is. It's called greed. And how much is enough, ask them and they can't answer that, because it's never enough.

    OPEC does what the big 5 tell them. The big 5 complain that regulation prohibits them from building refineries, yet every year they think of a way to have at least one US refinery "out of service" to create a "shortage". Frankly, this is not supply and demand, this is monopolistic competition. This is price fixing. This is in violation of the anti-trust laws. But, when you control the White House, and, by extension, the Attorney General, you have nothing to fear.

    The government does not tell them they can't build refineries. The government does tell them they cannot dump the by products into the ground water, or into the air, without treatment.

    You are just spouting rhetoric about having a smaller government, with less regulations, so that monompolies can occur, so that your air and water quality can be the same as China's and India's, so that your kids can play with toys made with lead paint, and so you can eat beef from cattle infected with Mad Cow disease.

    Just keep watching your right wing propaganda shows. All the answers you need you can find on The Country Music Channel. 

    You lost all respect you had gained from the IRS post. 5 companies are controlling the price of oil!? As Bill Oreilly keeps saying, do you know the difference between profit and profit margin? Also, The government profits off taxes exceed the oil companies almost every year, yet you don't hear any calls to drop taxes on oil in the media. Wait until they start taking the profits from oil companies and see where gas prices go.

  • renstimpy99renstimpy99 Member Posts: 175

    abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=1841989

    I thought that was interesting an oil exec got a 400 million dollar parachute when he retired in 2005.

  • unconformedunconformed Member Posts: 700

    Originally posted by renstimpy99


    abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=1841989
    I thought that was interesting an oil exec got a 400 million dollar parachute when he retired in 2005.
    oooh. prosperity. naughty word.

    he was responsible for billions in wealth. responsible to the shareholders. they felt he did a good job with their portfolios.

    chips, dips chains & whips.

  • olddaddyolddaddy Member Posts: 3,356

     

    Originally posted by Vemoi

    Originally posted by olddaddy


     
    Originally posted by Vemoi



    Found this message while perusing my right-wing propoganda conservative sites.



    ROTFLOL.

     

    There are 5 oil companies that control the price of oil in the world: Dutch Royal Shell, Exxon Mobil, Chevron, British Petroleum, and Conoco. It costs only slightly more today to bring oil out of the ground and refine it then it did 10 years ago. Let's take Exxon Mobil, a drilling subsidiary of Exxon Mobil incorporated in a tax haven country brings the oil out of the ground for about $27 per barrel. It is then sold to the US Exxon Mobil distributing subsidiary at, now, over $100 per barrel. No taxes are paid on the profits, as they are earned by the drilling subsidiary incorporated in the tax haven country. There is no overhead for building new refineries, there is also damn little exploration. They already know, after decades of exploration, where the oil is. It's called greed. And how much is enough, ask them and they can't answer that, because it's never enough.

    OPEC does what the big 5 tell them. The big 5 complain that regulation prohibits them from building refineries, yet every year they think of a way to have at least one US refinery "out of service" to create a "shortage". Frankly, this is not supply and demand, this is monopolistic competition. This is price fixing. This is in violation of the anti-trust laws. But, when you control the White House, and, by extension, the Attorney General, you have nothing to fear.

    The government does not tell them they can't build refineries. The government does tell them they cannot dump the by products into the ground water, or into the air, without treatment.

    You are just spouting rhetoric about having a smaller government, with less regulations, so that monompolies can occur, so that your air and water quality can be the same as China's and India's, so that your kids can play with toys made with lead paint, and so you can eat beef from cattle infected with Mad Cow disease.

    Just keep watching your right wing propaganda shows. All the answers you need you can find on The Country Music Channel. 

    You lost all respect you had gained from the IRS post. 5 companies are controlling the price of oil!? As Bill Oreilly keeps saying, do you know the difference between profit and profit margin? Also, The government profits off taxes exceed the oil companies almost every year, yet you don't hear any calls to drop taxes on oil in the media. Wait until they start taking the profits from oil companies and see where gas prices go.



    Oh, I very much know the difference between profit, and profit margin. I also know what revenue is. Profits are what you have left over after paying the expenses. The government has no profits, only revenue, as expenses exceed revenue. Therefore the government "profits" cannot possibly exceed the oil company's profits. Profit margin is the percentage of sales that you have left over after paying expenses. So, the government has a profit margin of exactly zero, as they have no profits. On the other hand, Exxon Mobil has record profits, and a very high profit margin. Why do you insist on quoting Bill O'Reilly?

     

    So, you find it acceptable that the oil companies shelter their profits in offshore tax havens through shell corporations which do nothing more than exchange paper? No Cayman Islands subsidiary ever takes posession of the oil, it transfers in title only. You find it acceptable that Congress provides a special one year window in which they can repatriate these profits at a 66% tax savings? Then Congress declares a victory because they got something? All they did was just reward Exxon Mobil and set them back on the treadmill awaiting the next repatriation bill.

    Speculation? Do you know what the speculators are speculating on? They are speculating on the price that the big 5 are going to sell oil at. They are not setting the actual price. Speculation is a gamble, that is why it is called speculation. They set no prices. If the big 5 decided to drop the price of a barrel of crude tomorrow to $45 per barrel each and every speculator would lose their ass.

    Yup, just keep watching Fox/Bill O'Reilly, and Country Music Network, and you will learn everything you need to know.....

     

  • olddaddyolddaddy Member Posts: 3,356

    Originally posted by unconformed


     
    Originally posted by renstimpy99


    abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=1841989
    I thought that was interesting an oil exec got a 400 million dollar parachute when he retired in 2005.
    oooh. prosperity. naughty word.

     

    he was responsible for billions in wealth. responsible to the shareholders. they felt he did a good job with their portfolios.

    Okay, here's some prosperity for you, from a liberal pile of shit newspaper called the Wall Street Journal (March 5, 2008):

    The nation's top 400 taxpayers reported a total of $85.6 billion of income in 2005. That's 400 individuals, reporting an average of $213.9 million. Just to make that exclusive club you would have to make $100.3 million per year. Yup, these are the "Fortune 400". Yea, support Huckabees Federal "Fair Tax", I bet these guys spend every penny they make and will pay the 23% tax rate on all that income. Just like the poor ditto head that makes less than $45,000/yr (about 50% of the US population) is currently paying 23% of their income.

    Those high paid executives at Exxon Mobil, what did they do to earn that money? They raised prices, pure and simple. Not cut costs, not made good investments, they raised prices. I guess they're worth that much because the Fox News/Bill O'Reilly, Country Music Network folk wouldn't have thought of it.

    So tell me, oh guru of Fox News, believer in trickle down, how much of that did the "Fortune 400" and Exxon Mobil executives trickle down to you?

    As Ronald Reagan liked to ask, "Are you better off today then you were 4 years ago?".

     

  • unconformedunconformed Member Posts: 700

    Originally posted by olddaddy


     
    Originally posted by unconformed


     
    Originally posted by renstimpy99


    abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=1841989
    I thought that was interesting an oil exec got a 400 million dollar parachute when he retired in 2005.
    oooh. prosperity. naughty word.

     

    he was responsible for billions in wealth. responsible to the shareholders. they felt he did a good job with their portfolios.

     

    Okay, here's some prosperity for you, from a liberal pile of shit newspaper called the Wall Street Journal (March 5, 2008):

    The nation's top 400 taxpayers reported a total of $85.6 billion of income in 2005. That's 400 individuals, reporting an average of $213.9 million. Just to make that exclusive club you would have to make $100.3 million per year. Yup, these are the "Fortune 400". Yea, support Huckabees Federal "Fair Tax", I bet these guys spend every penny they make and will pay the 23% tax rate on all that income. Just like the poor ditto head that makes less than $45,000/yr (about 50% of the US population) is currently paying 23% of their income.

    Those high paid executives at Exxon Mobil, what did they do to earn that money? They raised prices, pure and simple. Not cut costs, not made good investments, they raised prices. I guess they're worth that much because the Fox News/Bill O'Reilly, Country Music Network folk wouldn't have thought of it.

    So tell me, oh guru of Fox News, believer in trickle down, how much of that did the "Fortune 400" and Exxon Mobil executives trickle down to you?

    As Ronald Reagan liked to ask, "Are you better off today then you were 4 years ago?".

     

    they raised oil prices. cute. but untrue.

    trickle down to me? i dont want handouts.

    am i better off? yes. i quit my job 3 months ago and my wife works. we had our second child and im taking care of him. buying a house in july. living the american dream. which should consist of hard work rather than handouts and socialism. maybe ill be on the fortune 400 one day.

    you need more meds oldlady. i have a feeling im the one paying for it, anyways. so double em up, its on me!

    chips, dips chains & whips.

  • zerkzzerkz Member Posts: 8

    Really, I don't look at this as a super terrible thing as most people make it out to be. Now, while i'm 17, you might say "Well, you don't have to pay for gas." Thing is, I do. Sure, it hurts the wallet.

     

    However, a different way of looking at it is, Is that it will pressure American to research and advance in alternative energy sources. Perhaps then we won't rely on Oil as badly, if we can find a suitable alternative.

  • 8hammer88hammer8 Member Posts: 1,812

    "It is easier to be cruel than wise. The road to wisdom is long and difficult... so most people just turn out to be assholes" Feng (Christopher Walken)

  • windstrike1windstrike1 Member Posts: 553

    Originally posted by zerkz


    ...a different way of looking at it is, Is that it will pressure American to research and advance in alternative energy sources. Perhaps then we won't rely on Oil as badly, if we can find a suitable alternative.

    Heres another way to look at it;  It'll presure Americans to get a 2nd job and stop heating their homes in the winter.  Then you'll be able to afford to drive your car to the 2 jobs you have and pay for the mansions and awesome lifestyles of the guys that arbitrarily set the fuel prices.  Then they can use all the money you give them to buy up alternative energy research, and burn it. 

     

  • TechleoTechleo Member Posts: 1,984

           I don't think Oldlady means to say that opportunity to thrive doesn't exist. That would be naive. Rather the systems which are in place do seem to have put a adverse pressure on the purchasing power of the average citizen. You can keep climbing the ladder but eventually if the effort becomes to hard for the majority you have a imbalance occur. Honestly I don't presume to have a solution. If we keep going the way we are though the average citizen will not be able to support themselves.

          Also one must question what the measure of prosperity for a country is. All I know is I manage to survive just fine. The gas prices are killing me! Used to cost me 12 bucks to fill up. Costs me 45 now.

  • HYPERI0NHYPERI0N Member Posts: 3,515
    Originally posted by 8hammer8



    LoL i love these.

    Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981

  • frodusfrodus Member Posts: 2,396
    Originally posted by 8hammer8



    Thats to good HeHEHE

    Trade in material assumptions for spiritual facts and make permanent progress.

  • frodusfrodus Member Posts: 2,396

    Originally posted by zerkz


    Really, I don't look at this as a super terrible thing as most people make it out to be. Now, while i'm 17, you might say "Well, you don't have to pay for gas." Thing is, I do. Sure, it hurts the wallet.
     
    However, a different way of looking at it is, Is that it will pressure American to research and advance in alternative energy sources. Perhaps then we won't rely on Oil as badly, if we can find a suitable alternative.
    CHEERS TO YOU...we can send a robot mars but cant find a motor to push my personal shit up and down the road, it dont make no sence.fix it....Drill out the wazoo and flood the US market with oil and bring the price down.

    Im wandering who in hell is going to pay the political price for this, cause the price is going threw the roof.

    Every yr the the oil companys are dragged before congress and get drilled,but no one ever goes to jail,now why is that..because the oil industry is the most regulated biz im the US

    20% of all the oil US is has to be refined out-side the US because the EPA has not allowed a permit to build one,When that pipline went down some time back was the first time permits went out ,and those where to expand the already refinerys.

    THE EPA is run by a bunch leftys like way far leftys.

     

    Trade in material assumptions for spiritual facts and make permanent progress.

  • olddaddyolddaddy Member Posts: 3,356
    Originally posted by unconformed


     
    Originally posted by olddaddy


     
    Originally posted by unconformed


     
    Originally posted by renstimpy99


    abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=1841989
    I thought that was interesting an oil exec got a 400 million dollar parachute when he retired in 2005.
    oooh. prosperity. naughty word.

     

    he was responsible for billions in wealth. responsible to the shareholders. they felt he did a good job with their portfolios.

     

    Okay, here's some prosperity for you, from a liberal pile of shit newspaper called the Wall Street Journal (March 5, 2008):

    The nation's top 400 taxpayers reported a total of $85.6 billion of income in 2005. That's 400 individuals, reporting an average of $213.9 million. Just to make that exclusive club you would have to make $100.3 million per year. Yup, these are the "Fortune 400". Yea, support Huckabees Federal "Fair Tax", I bet these guys spend every penny they make and will pay the 23% tax rate on all that income. Just like the poor ditto head that makes less than $45,000/yr (about 50% of the US population) is currently paying 23% of their income.

    Those high paid executives at Exxon Mobil, what did they do to earn that money? They raised prices, pure and simple. Not cut costs, not made good investments, they raised prices. I guess they're worth that much because the Fox News/Bill O'Reilly, Country Music Network folk wouldn't have thought of it.

    So tell me, oh guru of Fox News, believer in trickle down, how much of that did the "Fortune 400" and Exxon Mobil executives trickle down to you?

    As Ronald Reagan liked to ask, "Are you better off today then you were 4 years ago?".

     

    they raised oil prices. cute. but untrue.

     

    We have already discussed this. Oil prices do not raise themselves, nor do speculators raise oil prices. For years gasoline consumption has grown, refinery capacity has not. this did not occur because of federal regulation. The Republicans, who say they hate regulation, but really don't, have controlled Congress since 1992's Newt Gingritch "Contract with America", and the White House since the 2000 elections. They have had plenty of time to address regulation if it was a problem. It was not. The big 5 purposely kept gasoline refinining at the same level it was at since the 1970s, created a "shortage", and used that as an excuse to raise prices.

    trickle down to me? i dont want handouts.

    Trickle down economics is a Reagan administration ecomonic policy, it has nothing to do with hand outs. You would have been about 7 years old when Reagan took office, so unless you have studied history, I do not expect you to know this. Therefore I will not blast you on your reply being off base.

    am i better off? yes. i quit my job 3 months ago and my wife works. we had our second child and im taking care of him. buying a house in july. living the american dream. which should consist of hard work rather than handouts and socialism. maybe ill be on the fortune 400 one day.

    Many Americans are not better off today. In case you have not noticed, the North Carolina garmet and furniture industry have moved offshore, the pharmeceutical industry has moved offshore, and heavy manufacturing is completing it's transition offshore. That means many high paying skilled labor jobs have left the country, and, as John McCain says, "They ain't coming back". John McCain is correct, though nobody wants to hear it. People are losing their homes, their jobs, their retirement savings. Read the papers.

    Reagan's question was rhetorical, and was directed at the American standard of living at the time. The Carter years were ones in which savings interest was 12%, and inflation was 18%. You actually lost purchasing power if you put money in the bank. Instead, everyone spent the money as soon as they got it. Once again, you would have been under 7 years old at that time.

    And the economic situation under Carter had nothing to do with handouts. Just like it has nothing to do with handouts today. It had everything to do with the hyperinflation caused by the Arab Oil embargo. It may interest you to know that Nixon, a Republican President in the early 1970s, placed wage and price controls (regulation) on everything to curb inflation. It didn't work, just as Carter's plan didn't work.

    Fast foreward to today. Our inflation rate is higher than our interest rate, so, if you save money you lose purchasing power. What has our guru in Washington (Dubya ) done. Certainly not what Reagan did.  His group of clowns are clueless.

    you need more meds oldlady. i have a feeling im the one paying for it, anyways. so double em up, its on me!

    Sorry, I have health insurance. Besides, I do not take any medication at all, my blood pressure, blood sugar, and chloresteral are all very good. I also have passed my cancer screenings.  I live a quite healthy lifestyle. I do appreciate your concern for my health, though.

     

     

  • unconformedunconformed Member Posts: 700

    how come there arent any  politicians  talking about that price control you cite? sounds illegal. where is the media on that one? it sounds quite outrageous, how do we fix that nasty scam??

    i was always under the impression that hardcore leftist dont want us to build refineries due to the 'footprint' and junk it leaves behind. at the same time I always thought the hard left wouldn't let us drill for more oil here, gulf of mexico, anwr? and why is it the left are the one that want to shutdown some nuclear power plants? or how about the democrat politicians regarding 'company profits', they speak rhetoric about higher taxes on profits...that would make me want to move my business offshore. actually, i know why they move there business offshore, for higher profits for there shareholders. we need to encourage them to stay here, big time. stop the crappy talk about punishing business, democrats. 

    i dont know, sounds like fishy business that would be revealed to the masses and exposed nationally. the price fixing, that is. almost like a conspiracy theory. damnit, how come 200million+ americans arent aware of this??

    chips, dips chains & whips.

  • BrianshoBriansho Member UncommonPosts: 3,586

    Man I can't even imagine how these people with the huge SUV are holding up. Those things get like 14 MPG. I don't see as many H3 out on the road lately either. I would have to sell the SUV if gas hits 4.00/gallon and the thing is barely pushing 15 MPG, I'd go crazy.

    Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!

  • VemoiVemoi Member Posts: 1,546

    Originally posted by olddaddy


     
    Originally posted by Vemoi

    Originally posted by olddaddy


     
    Originally posted by Vemoi



    Found this message while perusing my right-wing propoganda conservative sites.



    ROTFLOL.

     

    There are 5 oil companies that control the price of oil in the world: Dutch Royal Shell, Exxon Mobil, Chevron, British Petroleum, and Conoco. It costs only slightly more today to bring oil out of the ground and refine it then it did 10 years ago. Let's take Exxon Mobil, a drilling subsidiary of Exxon Mobil incorporated in a tax haven country brings the oil out of the ground for about $27 per barrel. It is then sold to the US Exxon Mobil distributing subsidiary at, now, over $100 per barrel. No taxes are paid on the profits, as they are earned by the drilling subsidiary incorporated in the tax haven country. There is no overhead for building new refineries, there is also damn little exploration. They already know, after decades of exploration, where the oil is. It's called greed. And how much is enough, ask them and they can't answer that, because it's never enough.

    OPEC does what the big 5 tell them. The big 5 complain that regulation prohibits them from building refineries, yet every year they think of a way to have at least one US refinery "out of service" to create a "shortage". Frankly, this is not supply and demand, this is monopolistic competition. This is price fixing. This is in violation of the anti-trust laws. But, when you control the White House, and, by extension, the Attorney General, you have nothing to fear.

    The government does not tell them they can't build refineries. The government does tell them they cannot dump the by products into the ground water, or into the air, without treatment.

    You are just spouting rhetoric about having a smaller government, with less regulations, so that monompolies can occur, so that your air and water quality can be the same as China's and India's, so that your kids can play with toys made with lead paint, and so you can eat beef from cattle infected with Mad Cow disease.

    Just keep watching your right wing propaganda shows. All the answers you need you can find on The Country Music Channel. 

    You lost all respect you had gained from the IRS post. 5 companies are controlling the price of oil!? As Bill Oreilly keeps saying, do you know the difference between profit and profit margin? Also, The government profits off taxes exceed the oil companies almost every year, yet you don't hear any calls to drop taxes on oil in the media. Wait until they start taking the profits from oil companies and see where gas prices go.



    Oh, I very much know the difference between profit, and profit margin. I also know what revenue is. Profits are what you have left over after paying the expenses. The government has no profits, only revenue, as expenses exceed revenue. Therefore the government "profits" cannot possibly exceed the oil company's profits. Profit margin is the percentage of sales that you have left over after paying expenses. So, the government has a profit margin of exactly zero, as they have no profits. On the other hand, Exxon Mobil has record profits, and a very high profit margin. Why do you insist on quoting Bill O'Reilly?

     

    So, you find it acceptable that the oil companies shelter their profits in offshore tax havens through shell corporations which do nothing more than exchange paper? No Cayman Islands subsidiary ever takes posession of the oil, it transfers in title only. You find it acceptable that Congress provides a special one year window in which they can repatriate these profits at a 66% tax savings? Then Congress declares a victory because they got something? All they did was just reward Exxon Mobil and set them back on the treadmill awaiting the next repatriation bill.

    Speculation? Do you know what the speculators are speculating on? They are speculating on the price that the big 5 are going to sell oil at. They are not setting the actual price. Speculation is a gamble, that is why it is called speculation. They set no prices. If the big 5 decided to drop the price of a barrel of crude tomorrow to $45 per barrel each and every speculator would lose their ass.

    Yup, just keep watching Fox/Bill O'Reilly, and Country Music Network, and you will learn everything you need to know.....

     


    Okay, the government "revenues" more than oil companies "profit" if that is the way you want to see it.  You know what I am talking about but just want to confuse the issue.

    You must be rich with all the knowledge of oil speculation and stuff. Looking at exxon profit margin. 10% is the lowest I seen of the several stocks I looked up including MO which is taxed to death. While I don't remember saying anything about going off shore, but if I was a owner/ceo, your dame right I would see that as a viable alternative to having all your profits taxed away. I am positive there will be a lot of shareholders hanging around when the gov starts taxing windfall profits.

    Yep! I will keep watching Fox. The only news channel close to being balanced. And what is up with mentioning CMT all the tiime?

  • olddaddyolddaddy Member Posts: 3,356
    Originally posted by unconformed


    how come there arent any  politicians  talking about that price control you cite? sounds illegal. where is the media on that one? it sounds quite outrageous, how do we fix that nasty scam??
    Read my post again. As I said, Nixon tries price controls and they didn't work. Why would any politician suggest an economic policy that didn't work previously? They are not illegal.
    i was always under the impression that hardcore leftist dont want us to build refineries due to the 'footprint' and junk it leaves behind. at the same time I always thought the hard left wouldn't let us drill for more oil here, gulf of mexico, anwr? and why is it the left are the one that want to shutdown some nuclear power plants? or how about the democrat politicians regarding 'company profits', they speak rhetoric about higher taxes on profits...that would make me want to move my business offshore. actually, i know why they move there business offshore, for higher profits for there shareholders. we need to encourage them to stay here, big time. stop the crappy talk about punishing business, democrats. 
    Since when has what hard core leftest ever wanted stopped a conservative Republican Congress/President? Hard core leftest want us to withdraw from Iraq yesterday. I still don't see it happening. Hard core leftests fought the Alaska pipeline, it still happened. Hard core leftests have much less power during times of conservative Republican control of the government.
    Why are you still trying to support corporate America, primarily oil and drug companies, squirrelling profits away in tax have countries to avoid paying US income taxes? You don't believe that they should pay their "fair share". I do not set that "fair share", the US Congress does. All I want them to do is play by the same rules as everyone else.
    Moving operations offshore hurts American jobs. I want a Congress that will tackle the tougher issues and come up with policies that will make them more competitive if they stay. Take health care, one of the biggest expenses of corporate America. General Motors wants national health care coverage. It gets the poor out of the emergency rooms for non-emergency cases, reduces overall medical costs, and by extension insurance costs, and reduces GMs insurance cost. It allows the poor to get lower cost treatment at a family practioners office. The neo-con Republican stance is actually hurting US business.
    As to who pays for the emergency room health care of the poor, you do already. If you can pay for health care, it is added to your bill when you see the doctor. Do you really thing the medical supplies actually cost what you are charged? The health care for those that cannot pay are built into the billings for those that can pay. You are already subsidizing it. Changing this system just reduces the cost of the subsidies. 
    i dont know, sounds like fishy business that would be revealed to the masses and exposed nationally. the price fixing, that is. almost like a conspiracy theory. damnit, how come 200million+ americans arent aware of this??
    Go back and do some research on Nixon, and wage and price controls, and his authority for it. It may even be as simple as Wiki'ing it. It happened, part of our history, no matter how fishy it sounds to you. If 200+ million Americans are not aware of it, it is because everything they learn they get spoom fed from talk radio/Fox News, and Country Music Network, rather than think independantly and look into things themselves before they form an opinion.
     

     

  • zoey121zoey121 Member Posts: 926

    i wonder how much of the economy failing will be blamed on high prices of gas/oil? SInce  this affects so many things from cost of goods even basics such as grocries, i wonder why there isn't an outcry?

     How high does it have to go before there is an outcry?

     Anyone remember the last happening? Long lines rationing, odd/even days to get gas?

  • wikiewikie Member Posts: 209

    that's why they invented the biodiesel to help sustain the need of oil in other countries..

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